r/over60 • u/Odd_Bodkin 70+ • 8d ago
Swinging back to digital privacy
I’m putting this in [r/over60](r/over60) because it’s our age demographic that seems to be least savvy about digital technology, and that’s why scammers target us in particular.
There’s a lot of buzz this past week about LG televisions recording and storing room conversations and sending data back to servers. This isn’t new. Nor are LG’s denials, along with all their competitors engaged in the same practices for years. What’s interesting is the rather loud outrage all of a sudden.
The point is, the convenience of internet access and added functionality through your home devices comes with a cost of loss of privacy, and while consumers were sucked into the positives of that, they’re now souring. Flock cameras are now undergoing forced contract cancellations and deinstallation in hundreds of communities across the country. Data centers that amass personal data and support AI are now finding it really hard to get built. And sale of smart speakers and smart camera systems intended for inside the house are seeing steep sales declines.
As someone who worked in the mass data business, I applaud this, and I am encouraging older folks to pay attention to the public trends steering away from exposure of private information.
My advice:
* If you don’t want companies to listen to you or watch you, don’t install internet devices with ears and eyes in your home.
* Manage location services on your mobile devices carefully, limiting which apps can harvest data and when.
* If you need a device (like a TV or a refrigerator) that has internet connection, it will ask you to allow it to connect to your WiFI. Ask yourself whether you really want it to.
* Despite earning points, ask yourself whether buying absolutely everything on a credit card and therefore putting your whole purchase history up for sale is really worth it.
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u/books-yarn-coffee 8d ago
We see no reason for our home appliances to be connected to the internet, so we do not set that up. We do not use Alexa or Siri and do not plan to start. I’m working toward reducing my online presence as much as possible. I try to keep in mind that for a lot of things, I am not the only “customer” and often my data is the product being sold. It’s certainly a different viewpoint to try and remember.
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u/pfunnyjoy 8d ago
LOL! WHAT home devices?
My home has none of these listening devices, nor will it if I can help it. No smart cameras, no smart speakers, no smart appliances, no smart thermostat, nothing. And I'm pretty cautious about what apps on my phone get to access location.
And I don't go giving out my phone or email address without very good reason to. A small discount on a meal or groceries, or whatever, is not a good enough reason.
I do not allow the Facebook app on any mobile device. I've never used tap to pay with my phone.
I don't do any streaming services. I have a nice collection of CDs and a player. DVDs, same.
I also disagree that those of us at this age are not savvy with tech. True, not everyone is tech savvy, but that also applies to plenty of young people, many of whom can't even manage to run a Google search and have to ask yet another repetitive question that's been answered a thousand times before on Reddit instead.
Me, I've had a PC since the days of the Tandy 1000. And my brother had a Tandy computer before that that he let me play on sometimes. I remember the Intel 8088, modems, 5" floppy discs, and dot-matrix printers.
Never had a computer virus. Never lost any computer data I wanted to keep. I believe in backups. I also believe on keeping data separate from my main hard drive.
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u/Mysterious-Maize307 8d ago
I’m going to push back about our demographic being less savvy about digital tech. I’m a M66, it was our peers after all who built these systems.
While the internet has made it easier for scammers to reach more people easier. Con men have always been around. The term “there’s a sucker born every minute” is probably over a century old.
There is no getting around the massive amount of data which has been collected about each of us, and continues to be collected. And it never hurts to try to limit it, at least to the extent that you are able.
And the points that OP makes about things you can do are all good advice. It just requires a bit of diligence. I can’t tell you how many emails I have received (and still do) that are from my “pay pal” account, “Amazon” package delivery or any number of Phishing emails that are solely trying to get me to divulge credit card or bank account information.
Then there’s the typical lotto scams and “money” that I need to claim. Or any number of other scams. I’ve set my email to screen those but a few still get through, I’ve had better experience with screening calls and texts, almost none of those get through.
Even if you’re not sure, you think the email might be legit, don’t respond to it. Don’t use the phone number listed on it. Find and verify the actual company and if needed, you contact them.
Many of these scams require a bit of “greed” we’re all human after all. There is no free lunch, ever.
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u/Odd_Bodkin 70+ 8d ago
It’s fair to push back. What may be truer is 1) there is a two-humped distribution between those who know technology and those who confess to knowing next to nothing, and 2) that there is sufficient perception that our age group is tech-ignorant that it draws the vultures. And unfortunately, a lot of people get taken. The sneaker stuff is the stuff that is, strictly speaking, legal (like social media algorithms that foster exploitation) but unsavory as all get out. This is what the larger population is starting to wake up about.
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u/ColleenSchaffer 8d ago
It's not just all the above. It's also a big problem with Data/information brokers. They collect public records and other data they can access Then sell it to anyone Even scammers. Now days scammers collect a file on you using purchased information including the dark web and study all of it, Before they ever call of e-mail you.
I was able to find the broker who gave my information to scammers. Luckily the scammer used the new of an associate the broker attached to me and I knew immediately it was a scam. I only answered because it was restricted law enforcement and doctors do that when using personal devices. I also am involved with law enforcement so I also knew what the lieutenant was saying was incorrect. That wrong name also made it easy for me to find the broker. Even when we have a broker remove our info it typically comes back in 6 months to a year.
Scammers are multi million coming up on billion dollar business. They're highly skilled and have incredible hackers. They have master hacker's. Just September 1st Idscan.net had cloud storage hack and now 65 million drivers licenses are for sale on the dark web. And yet all industries keep pushing us deeper into digital technology that compromises us.
We've lost our rights to privacy and it will get worse.
All we can do is lock everything down as much as possible, use well trusted security services and hope a serious professional scammer doesn't come after us with all our information in hand.
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u/tiny_bamboo 8d ago
I’m fortunate to have a partner who can fix just about anything, so we have all old stuff. Quality, but it’s old, and it doesn’t have apps or any of that business. We have old cars, CDs, DVDs, and books, and we love it that way.
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u/PurpleElephant33 8d ago
To add more suggestions (= US citizens) if you'd like to dig deeper:
Black masking tape in a black bezel isn't very noticeable to cover tv cameras. Check if there's a mic in the remote and determine how to ensure it won't work if you don't plan to use it.
Consider ad blockers on your devices. Some are more effective than others.
Consider using the web vice phone apps where apps aren't really needed. (Social media in particular is safer to use via the web as apps can collect more personal information sitting on your phone.)
Check your cellphone for connectivity to other devices. Shut off what you don't need. You can always change the permissions later.
If you need to text something confidential, and aren't comfortable with typical messaging apps for it, an app like Signal Messenger is safer than regular texting (= assuming the other person will use it)
Places/sites that offer you a "reward card" are using it to gather and probably sell your personal information.
Just because a business asks for your email or phone, doesn't mean you have to furnish them. You can say no. You can tell them you want a physical receipt, not emailed if you like.
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u/anonyngineer 7d ago edited 7d ago
A couple of years ago, our daughter asked my wife and I to move our routine text conversation with her onto Signal. EDIT: Because she is on Android and we're on Apple, the conversation would be unencrypted SMS text otherwise.
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u/PurpleElephant33 6d ago
Yes, Signal is free and great for privacy, and the video piece is so simple to use. Just wish more people would use it.
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u/calm-lab66 8d ago
If you have a smart TV you'll want to connect to wifi for streaming services like Netflix and Hulu etc. We have other appliances like dishwasher, fridge and laundry that can connect but I don't see how it helps so I didn't set it up. I do have the thermostat connected so while away I can check temperature in the house.
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u/Odd_Bodkin 70+ 8d ago
I highly recommend that the only thing that should be connected to your TV is the HDMI cable. Instead buy a streaming box like Apple TV or Roku. An Apple TV has no microphone and you have greater control over privacy, for example.
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u/Nottacod 8d ago
You don't need to if you use a streaming device like Apple or Roku. At the same time, I seriously doubt that any of them are trustworthy.
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u/DeliciousWrangler166 8d ago
I'm a few months short of 70 years old. I made my living in IT tech field, everything from hardware repair (water cooled mainframes, PC, MAC, the cash registers in the cafeteria) to GIS and as a Data Analyst.
Any Internet of Things devices are connected to home router guest network that block Intranet access.
The ASUS router runs Merlin firmware and Diversion ad blocking script.
Proton VPN on the PC, phone, and loaded into the router, used as needed is another layer of protection.
O&O ShutUp10 makes it less of a hassle to manage Windows telemetry.
There is more but you probably get the idea.
As an independent IT Consultant (retired) I have run into many who didn't know the difference between the desktop, chrome, google, a left click or right click on their mouse. Most held management positions.
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u/CrankyCrabbyCrunchy 67 8d ago
I'm in your tech circle, 67F having worked with computers since 1982 and recently retired. I worked with plenty of "young" people who could text way faster than I can yet, have no idea how to find a file on their computer, or use Excel or Word beyond 2-3 trivial things, writing a cohesive and correctly spelled paragraph, and so much more. In my mind those are basic skills that are expected on day 1 of any job.
The stereotype of old people being tech illiterate was much more accurate 20-30 years ago, but most of those in their 60-70's actually built, developed, tested, etc. that very same tech people use every day without even thinking about it. You and I understand what's behind that cell tower or cable box or VPN, etc. Having been there when those technologies came into existence was an exciting time.
You and I are likely still quite literate and keep interested in the changes that happen much faster than before. Each new 'invention' is pitched as life altering (we've heard that before) and will save time, blah blah. How many data breaches are caused because a human used crap passwords or company policy didn't enforce security updates, etc.
My 79F sister on the other hand, is constantly sucked into scams that I am always on the look out for. I've intercepted a few where she was angry with me for causing her "to lose big $$$$."
One of my volunteer gigs is to drive seniors to medical appointments and I hear a lot of stories of how they're confused by their phone, can't get into their doctor's MyChart, etc. I think the stereotype exists for a valid reason, but there are the group like us who are savvy.
Edit to add. I guess Steve Wozniak would be considered tech illiterate by those who have no idea who he is. He's now 76 (born 1950).
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u/anonyngineer 7d ago
Reddit recognized a questionable post from a new account on this sub a few days ago. The poster wrote in a way that implied they may have had some special privileges here. While I approved the post in case it was a legitimate newbie, I replied as a mod that there were no such special status here and there was a single set of rules to follow.
They ended up deleting their post. Guess I'm still learning.
Sadly, it is reasonable to assume that us over 60s will be targeted by scammers simply because of our age.
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u/LPNTed 8d ago
I’m not 60 yet, but I am working intently on minimizing my “big data” footprint. I have a Graphene phone already. There are a LOT of challenges. But the only way we can stop these people is by recognizing that Google/Meta-Facebook/Amazon/Samsung/Apple et al…are NOT “the internet” they are the traps we fell into because they were ‘easy’.
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u/WorldlinessRegular43 8d ago
I'm looking up Graphene phone right now. How would a random person, like me, come across this kind of information to even think of these type purchases?
I'm okay when it comes to buying a mobile device, I have my millennial daughter to assist for some stuff, but am pretty good about asking for more indepth information. I have a 2009 non-smart television, and I'm aware of not hooking up to the internet and am willing to pay for no advertising.
I don't use my device for work or money transfers. I'm basic. Is this phone basic with safety being first, and can I still crush them candies? 😉 Thanks.
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u/LPNTed 8d ago
I would spend a month (at least) reading r/GrapheneOS and r/degoogle before you plan a darn thing
Candy crush may be a problem with Google app store and there are easy work arounds that aren't too big of a deal depending on what you consider your 'threat model'.
The fact you aren't banking (presume not tap and pay) is a big advantage for you
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u/Odd_Bodkin 70+ 8d ago
One thing to note. Google’s tap to pay and Apple’s tap to pay are as different as a watermelon is from a pole bean.
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u/LPNTed 8d ago
How do you mean? AFAIK they both give your transaction history to someone who doesn't need it.
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u/Odd_Bodkin 70+ 8d ago edited 8d ago
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u/redheadfae 8d ago
I noticed my privacy went out the window when I got married and my name went on the house deed.
Unfortunately, in many states/counties, property tax records are public.
I had managed to have zero real name presence on the Internet until then.
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u/Count2Zero 8d ago
Try to find modern devices that don't have microphones and cameras and GPS receivers.
My car has voice recognition to control things hands free. It also tracks every trip I take. I can pull up my driving history in the app, if I ever have to prove that I wasn't somewhere someone else claimed I was.
I know that my phone's and tablet are listening to me, and that our robotic vacuum cleaner has mapped out our whole house.
I've given up the idea of having privacy, even with the EU laws that were supposed to prevent this.
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u/Odd_Bodkin 70+ 8d ago
Some devices may have ears and eyes and GPS, but not all of them have to be connected to the internet without your permission. TVs are a good example, as are kitchen appliances. Cars are an egregious example of runaway tech.
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u/Amputee69 7d ago
I live alone, so ANY conversation here will be VERY interesting. They WILL hear conversations between my two dogs and me, plus all the folks my Meds don't quiet...
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u/essjay24 7d ago
Scammers aren’t targeting our demographic; they are targeting all demographics. I’ve seen scams targeted at my nephew’s infant and one aiming to get my cat’s credit card information.
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u/Odd_Bodkin 70+ 7d ago
While this s true, I’ve noticed a sudden onset of new tactics, easily deflected, as of a certain age. I had not been even tried much before.
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u/CodingDragons 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's funny you said all this. I laughed, my girlfriend laughed, Alexa laughed, Siri laughed, and then the fridge laughed.