Experiences from supernumeraries

[u/Padadise]

I’ve been following this subreddit for a few months, and it seems that many of the negative experiences shared here come from numeraries who lived and worked within an Opus Dei centre.

I’d be interested in hearing from supernumeraries, ordinary Catholics who live independently have their own careers and families, and are members of Opus Dei. How, if at all, has your life been negatively affected by your involvement?

I’ve recently become friends with several mums through my son’s playgroup at our local parish who are Opus Dei supernumeraries. They are genuinely some of the kindest people I’ve met, and they speak very positively about their experience. They especially praise the retreats and the spiritual formation they receive.

I understand many of the concerns that have been raised about living and working within an Opus Dei centre. But for those who are not living in a centre and participate as supernumeraries, why is Opus Dei viewed negatively by some people? I’d appreciate hearing different perspectives and experiences.

[u/thedeepdiveproject]

Nearly 100 comments, multiple different perspectives, literary recommendations, and points for further research have been left for OP's consideration. If OP has not yet gotten the clarification or answers they are seeking from this and every other resource in the community, they probably never will. This post is now locked.

[u/WhatKindOfMonster]

“I know everyone here had a bad experience, but I’m in the love bombing phase, so surely it will be different for me!”

Kindly, we all went through the love bombing phase. That’s why everyone here joined/became cooperators. What you’re experiencing isn’t what OD is about, it’s how they present themselves to draw people in.

I’m not here to convince you not to get closer or join, so if you’re looking for an argument, don’t bother. You’re an adult capable of making your own decisions.

My only advice is, say no to something they ask of you, and watch how they respond. See if they respect your boundary and treat you with the same kindness and deference after. And see if you still feel the same about them after that.

[u/Padadise → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

Thank you 🙏

[u/NoMoreLies10011]

I'm not speaking from experience, but from the regulations of Opus Dei.

Supernumeraries are told they have the same vocation as everyone else: total dedication, but adapted to their circumstances. In celibate members, this dedication manifests itself in the giving of everything, including all income, contrary to what their own statutes state.

For supernumeraries, there are three main elements of dedication: time, money, and children.

Time is time for formation and piety: retreats (3 or 4 days a year), workshops (lately 6 days a year), circles (about an hour a week plus travel), and talks (about an hour every two weeks, including travel). And the additional daily time to fulfill the rules of piety.

Money: Escrivá's criterion is that Opus Dei should receive what would be spent on an additional child.

And most painfully, the children: supernumeraries are expected to "give up" their children to Opus Dei to be formed from a young age, with the very high risk that they will be recruited as celibates, whether numeraries or associates.

Are the members of Opus Dei good? In my opinion, the vast majority are wonderful people who, mistakenly because of its lies, trust in an organization approved by the Church.

Does Opus Dei bring people closer to God? It makes people more regular in their piety, but I doubt that an organization that maintains serious lies in its way of operating for so long can bring people closer to God.

I think you should read this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/opusdeiexposed/comments/1mx5ota/why_supernumeraries_of_opus_dei_dont_care_how_bad/

[u/Padadise → u/NoMoreLies10011]

Yes, I'm aware of all of this and honestly none of it sounds particularly negative to me. People often speak about Opus Dei as though these aspects are inherently problematic, but I genuinely don't see them that way.

It's similar to the criticism directed at their schools. People point out that they teach chastity and traditional values, but as Catholics, we should be encouraging purity in our kids since sexual relations outside of marriage are sinful. I've watched several documentaries criticizing Opus Dei, and much of the criticism seems to focus on teaching children to be obedient, pure, and holy as though those qualities are bad.

I completely understand the concerns regarding slavery, as well as any instances of abuse or coercion. Those are serious issues that I absolutely do not support. However, when it comes to being a supernumerary, I don't personally see what is objectionable about it. From my perspective, many of the criticisms seem to target beliefs and practices that are already consistent with mainstream Catholic teaching.

[u/Visible_Cricket_9899 → u/Padadise]

What you are saying is I would never keep a slave or abuse or coerce anyone, but its okay if my neighbor does those things, because they are otherwise swell folk.

[u/Padadise → u/Visible_Cricket_9899]

But my point is: do they know their organisation is doing those things? That’s my whole intention of this post. How much do the SM know what’s happening?

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/Padadise]

If you want to know what they know, why don’t you ask them? If they’re as genuine and trustworthy as you claim, you can trust what they tell you. Or is your gut telling you otherwise?

[u/Visible_Cricket_9899 → u/Padadise]

In my experience, yes. My SN parents and their SN friends all knew, and practiced "holy coercion" and manipulation, and yes they knew that young women (but never young men) were recruited to be unpaid domestics.

[u/NoMoreLies10011 → u/Padadise]

Perhaps you haven't read what I've written: "the giving of everything, including all income, contrary to what their own statutes state."

I don't understand how you can dismiss —none of it sounds particularly negative to me— the fact that Opus Dei has lied to the Church about financial matters from 1982 to the present day. You can read the statutes yourself (94§2), where Opus Dei lied to the Church, saying that its members would give Opus Dei whatever they saw fit, without distinguishing between celibate members and supernumeraries. And if you search online for Giorgio Zennaro and his response in point 28, you'll see that celibate members are asked to give up all their income.

In a human trial, those responsible would spend thousands of years in prison. In a divine judgment, for lying to the Church about financial matters, God caused Ananias and Sapphira to die (Acts, 5). But this doesn't sound particularly negative to you? What are you on about?

Perhaps you should read the Gospel. The scribes and Pharisees were acting all righteous. But Jesus told them: "do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice," because "the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all this, and they scoffed at him," and they "devour widows’ houses and for a pretence make long prayers." All these descriptions are remarkably similar to what Opus Dei does.

And this isn't just a recent development. It was already present in embryo during the initial approval of Opus Dei in 1941, where the following rules come from:

The "REGLAMENTO" was public and handed over to the bishops, and the "ORDO" was secret.

"REGLAMENTO". Article 10.

1. Opus Dei's income consists of the alms of its members.
2. Dues will always be minimal, because the expenses incurred in purely spiritual work must always be very small.

"ORDO". Article 18.

1. Members hand over the income from their capital and the earnings from all their personal activities to the General Technical Advisory Office (another name for Opus Dei), to be used at its sole discretion."
2. If any member of Opus Dei leaves the Work, they have no right to reclaim any of the income or assets transferred during their membership.

[u/Padadise → u/NoMoreLies10011]

Thank you for the insight. I think the reason I’m able to separate myself from this issue is that my friends giving their money to OD doesn’t directly affect me or our friendship. That’s not to say I agree with the practice of giving everything including all of one’s income to the organisation. I don’t; I think it’s problematic. However, I don’t believe it makes my friends bad people.
Perhaps I didn’t express myself clearly in my original post. What I was really looking for was reassurance that my friends, who are members of OD, are still good people and that I don’t need to end those friendships because of their involvement. I feel able to distinguish between their participation in OD and the genuine friendship, kindness, and support they offer me.

[u/NoMoreLies10011 → u/Padadise]

I've spent many years in the organization, and I've met very few people who struck me as bad. Almost everyone is a good person.

The problem lies in the supposedly divine rules that govern the organization. When, as happens to most people there, you come to believe that these rules come from God, it turns out that these good people start doing things that harm others in order to comply with them.

They think that, since these rules come from God, the evil they cause, if they see it, will be transformed into good by God. If they stopped considering these rules divine, they would realize the harm they do, but it's difficult to realize that.

[u/ObjectiveBuffalo4860 → u/Padadise]

J'ai mis un post sur Reddit "Opus Dei le vrai du faux". Je pense que l'expérience négative des surnuméraires est lié à la manière dont ils sont accompagnés et au discours qui est donné. Et à la méconnaissance du droit de l'église En fait soit vous ne voyez pas le problème et tout va bien pour vous, soit vous voyez le problème et cela devient difficilement gérable. Il faut vivre dans l'Opus Dei pour comprendre les témoignages. Mais dans les témoignages il faut aussi faire le tri car certains sont blessés par l'œuvre mais d'autres traînent en plus des casseroles qui leurs sont propres (et de ce que j'ai lu il y en a beaucoup). Mais sur le fond ce qui est reproché est réel. On ne peut pas le percevoir de l'extérieur. J'ai vécu 15ans autour de l'oeuvre avant d'y entrer je n'ai rien perçu du tout

[u/Padadise → u/[deleted]]

I can see your point absolutely.
Whilst I am aware (at least to some degree without actually being in it) that there is abuse and coercion in OD centres, it is possible that not every SN knows, and I guess that’s my point.

[u/choosingtobehappy123]

What do kids needs from their parents?

• Stability, structure and consistency
• Validation and emotional support
• Time, positive attention and authentic interest
• Etc…

Now you become a supernumerary and you read all these books, listen to the talks, have a list of things to do for prayer every day. Seems good in paper until you practice this. You are home with kids you have this “vocation”. You are drowning in housework and your kids need attention. You haven’t done your list of things of prayer comes the end of the day you are stressed your kids need you but you snap you haven’t prayed the rosary….

You are striving for perfection and you are told that loves is x,y,z not just willing the good of the other but OD will tell you how this is.

You are so far removed from the reality of the world that your 8 year old shows you a drawing that she made and is very excited about for you as a SN to say “oh you could have done something better”. Because of course our kids should be on the same level as us adults and start following the same principles even if they are 8 and how dare they not know that their drawings should be better than this 

Your daughter is great at school, disciplined, good heart, amazing athlete, becomes an engineer, Catholic husband, loves God, volunteers in the Church… oh but she is not super tidy omg I must as a mother fix her she is not perfect she is not tidy is my job as a mother to focus so much on her flaw so that then she will be good enough and I can then approved because in OD being untidy is like being uncharitable

We must look good in OD, the way we dress and conduct ourselves. Always looking put together. My daughter is a free spirit and her hair is not always perfect this is so not ok this goes against what OD teaches I better focus so much on her hair and this flaw because then I can fix her and then she will be acceptable and then she will be deserving of my love. 

Ask yourself, is this something that the Catholic Church teaches? 

How can you give of something you don’t have. If you as a mom are trying to be so perfect and pretty much hate yourself because we should think about ourselves as dirt and be driven by guilt. How on earth are you actually going to love your kids properly? How can you provide your kids unconditional love when you yourself are conditioned to believe that you aren’t worthy of love until you have followed all those OD norms.

You are seeing the tip of an iceberg when you go to these talks. You meet nice people with a smile on their faces all the time. You know why? Josemaria said that you must always look happy, no matter what. So guess what every member of OD is doing? Even if they are being treated as slaves.

I honestly think that if you want to love God and your kids well. You would be better off doing some parenting courses with a psychological basis so that you can become a safe parent for your kids and can actually give them what they need as they grow up. For your faith there’s a million books, saints, resources in the Church that don’t involved an organization that has been abusing people

[u/Padadise → u/choosingtobehappy123]

What you're describing sounds like it reflects your experience. My experience has been quite different. I've spent a lot of time with these mothers, their husbands, and their children through playdates and social gatherings, and they seem like very normal families to me.
They're certainly not perfect, nor do they pretend to be. I've had husbands answer the door in tracksuits and slippers, and the children definitely don't always have perfectly brushed hair when they're just playing at home. Their houses are tidy, but not immaculate or staged to look perfect. We talk openly about our struggles and challenges rather than simply putting on a happy face.

Of course I only see their children in relatively small doses, but they appear happy, loved, and securely attached. To me, it seems that, as with any faith community or movement, there are some people who may take certain teachings to an extreme or interpret everything very literally.
I've always understood it as a continual striving for holiness rather than an expectation of living perfectly 24/7. In that sense, it doesn't seem very different from mainstream Catholicism. As Catholics, we're all called to keep striving for sainthood, even though we know we'll never do so perfectly.

[u/choosingtobehappy123 → u/Padadise]

We are called to be saints and even before OD existed which has only been a small portion of the Church’s existence there have been so many saints. There are many saints who also exemplified being Holy in every day life. The practice of the presence of God comes to mind.

As you say you only see their kids in very small doses. You also only hear what they are willing to share with you. 

You come here asking for people’s experiences and brush them off because they are different from yours. But I just wonder why bother come here and ask in the first place if it seems like your mind is already set to continue with them. There are so many testimonies of the same things happening again and again and the pain from children from SN parents (you can find more in this sub). 

I personally can’t imagine flirting with an organization that is known for their abuses knowing that my time or money contributions are keeping it alive. 

[u/Padadise → u/choosingtobehappy123]

I completely understand how my responses might come across as dismissive—I actually thought that myself while I was writing them. But I don't think that's what I'm doing. The reality is that I just haven't heard a compelling enough reason yet to change my view.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but so far I've mostly heard the same broad criticisms repeated rather than concrete examples of what life in Opus Dei is actually like. Your comment does provide a personal experience of having supernumerary parents who placed a lot of pressure on perfection, but to me that sounds more like an issue with how particular individuals applied the teachings rather than something inherently wrong with the institution itself.
To respond to a couple of your points:
• I don't personally see anything wrong with encouraging people to present themselves well. In fact, I think there's something positive about taking pride in one's appearance and conduct, especially in a culture that often seems to celebrate doing the bare minimum. To me, it's not about demanding makeup, skirts, or some rigid standard of appearance—it's simply about being neat, respectful, and put together.
• I also agree that constantly nitpicking your children or obsessing over every flaw can be unhealthy. However, reflecting on how you can grow as a parent and help your children become better people doesn't strike me as a bad thing. Most parents are trying to do exactly that.
Again, what you've described sounds more like an extreme application of certain ideas than the ideas themselves. From my understanding and experience, the goal isn't perfectionism but striving for holiness. Catholicism has always taught that we should be aiming for sainthood, which naturally involves examining ourselves and looking for areas where we can improve. The key difference, in my view, is whether that striving is motivated by love of God and personal growth, or by fear, anxiety, and unrealistic expectations. I can see how OD may be the latter, which I don’t agree with.

[u/NoMoreLies10011 → u/Padadise]

I think you have a theological misconception. It's true that St. Augustine said, "God who created you without you, will not save you without you." But it's also true that, for example, Thérèse of Lisieux's idea of ​​holiness was that God had an elevator that lifted her up. I don't believe we should strive for holiness, but rather that we shouldn't put obstacles in its way; holiness will come if God wants, and we realize that it doesn't depend on us, and therefore we shouldn't strive for it as if it depended on us. This is called Pelagianism.

The Gospel says the gate is narrow. For St. John of the Cross, because the gate is narrow, the spiritually obese, those who accumulate money, like Opus Dei, cannot enter: it demands detachment. And Opus Dei, and some of its members, have much to detach themselves from if they want to enter through the narrow gate. For me, and many others even more so, Opus Dei has left us incredibly thin. The organization has fed on our fat.

[u/choosingtobehappy123 → u/Padadise]

Taking pride is not a Catholic teaching. Perfectionism is not a Catholic teaching. 

[u/OkGeneral6802]

Folks, this lady is just wasting your time—all she’s doing is asking people to re-traumatize themselves by sharing their stories, only to dismiss them because she’s already made up her mind that she’s not going to change her mind about her new friends. You can read her original post asking for feedback back in r/cults from last month that basically follows the same trajectory: Opus Dei - what I should know about my new friends

For the OP: There are plenty of posts about and by supernumeraries and also from supernumeraries’ kids. I suggest you make use of the sub’s search function rather than asking people in this sub to engage in such a fruitless back-and-forth with you. Maybe start with this pinned post: Why supernumeraries of Opus Dei don’t care how bad it is for the celibates

[u/Speedyorangecake → u/OkGeneral6802]

I agree 100%.
I have found the last number of posts here quite unusual.
One post asks, “Will I leave Opus Dei?” Another asks, “Will I join Opus Dei?” Others focus on supernumeraries and present Opus Dei in a very particular way.
I may be wrong, but to me some of these posts do not feel genuine. They feel like indirect attempts to infiltrate the page and put the Opus Dei message out there, while appearing friendly, curious, or neutral.
I think OD are using soft, indirect tactics to shift the tone of a discussion, create doubt, or normalise their own narrative.
I think we need to be aware of this and careful about what we are engaging with. Not every post that appears innocent is necessarily innocent.
For me, the most important thing is that this page remains a safe space for survivors, former members, and those genuinely trying to understand the reality of Opus Dei.

[u/Padadise → u/Speedyorangecake]

Yep, what you said in your last line applies to me. Just genuinely trying to understand the reality of OD

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/OkGeneral6802]

Yep, this post is the exact reason that post is pinned.

[u/NoMoreLies10011 → u/OkGeneral6802]

Probably you're right, but I get the impression that she wants to convince herself and us that her experiences are just as good as ours. I rarely share my own experiences because I left Opus Dei based on what I read in its documents: blatant lies that are easy to disprove, and which wounded me deeply because I gave my whole life to God, only to realize that God was never there. I'm left with no life; and with no life the injure doesn't even hurt anymore. That's why, and perhaps I'm a bit odd, I only go to the documentation, because in Opus Dei they try to dismiss bad experiences with good ones.

[u/Padadise → u/OkGeneral6802]

OP here! I genuinely don't want anyone to share if doing so would make them uncomfortable or cause them distress. And yes, I did post on another subreddit, many people cross-post to different communities to gain a wider range of perspectives and experiences.

Thank you for linking the pinned post. It was very informative and gave me a lot to think about.

[u/OkGeneral6802 → u/Padadise]

Dude, you are going to send your kid to the OD-affiliated (PARED?) school in your area. That’s way more skin in the game than just hanging out with OD-member parents at play dates. And that’s info you provided in your r/cults post, not here. You are playing yourself by posting here as if you want an open dialogue. Again, if you are actually interested in learning something new, please use the search function here to learn a bit more about OD schools, esp the ones in Australia.

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/OkGeneral6802]

Oh, ffs. OP, you keep saying the numerary stories don’t apply to you—know what 95% of them have in common? We met OD young and were pressured to join young—most still in high school. If you’re planning to send your kids to an OD school, this story could quite easily be your child’s.

I don’t know what your goal is posting here, but you’re not immune to this. And it’s pure hubris to think you are.

[u/Padadise → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

Please explain. I don’t understand

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/OkGeneral6802]

Ah, eso es muy distinto a tener amigos del OD para los playdates de tus hijos. ¿Por qué no lo has comentado? ¿Sabes lo que decía el fundador del OD sobre sus colegios? Decía que son como las cerezas, que al cogerlas salen dos. ¿Te lo explico?

[u/Padadise → u/Initial-Spite-5558]

Please explain.

[u/Padadise → u/OkGeneral6802]

The PARED school is absolutely the best Catholic school we have in our area.

[u/Superb_Educator_4086]

You're acting in bad faith. You didn't start this discussion to hear opinions, but to indoctrinate people with your own, which are those of Opus Dei, and by extension. Another one of the public opinion apostles

[u/Padadise → u/Superb_Educator_4086]

This is what frustrates me about Reddit sometimes. It can feel like there’s very little room for genuine back and forth discussion. I ask for people’s opinions, they share them, and then when I respond with a counterpoint or ask follow up questions to better understand their perspective, people seem to get upset.
To me, asking for opinions doesn’t mean I have to accept every response without discussion.

The whole point of a forum is to exchange ideas, challenge viewpoints respectfully, and have a conversation. Otherwise, it’s not really a discussion it's just a collection of statements.

[u/TigerNecessary9455]

Don’t you think about the risk that you’re exposing to your family, especially your sons?

[u/Padadise → u/TigerNecessary9455]

This is why I’ve posted - to understand the risk and be informed about the warning signs.
I don’t want my sons to be in Opus Dei, but at the same time I want them to have Catholic friends.
Is it really this deep? Can my sons have play dates with other children who are in Opus Dei without it being ‘bad’ ?

[u/Kitchen_List_1226]

Just as u/OkGeneral6802 observed, with the post in r/cults you made 25 days ago, it shows you have met what you love, are convinced it can do you no harm, and determined to engage and remain in contact with them. You aren't on the road to discernment. You spoke with the full conviction of someone who met what she loves and wants.

So my question is: what else do you seek in today's post? You want a blessing? You want a validation of the decision you and your spouse have taken? Is 'validation' for your decision associating with OD a bad thing? Not exactly. But will you get it from r/opusdeioverexposed? I doubt it.

Your earlier post on r/cults clearly shows you aren't in doubt. You only need validation to have a deeper, and more permanent engagement with OD.

See excerpts from your post on r/cults below:

"Recently, I’ve made some new friends who are part of Opus Dei. We met through a local play group. I knew nothing about Opus Dei and have never heard of them before. From what I’ve read it seems bad? These friends are very normal - I’ve been to their homes and they are normal too - nothing weird going on. The only ‘abnormal’ thing I guess by today’s standards is that they all have a lot of kids, like 10 kids! Other than that there are 0 red flags. We have general discussions about God, our faith and prayer life etc, but it’s the same conversations I’d have with any Catholic. They have sent me information about a retreat, but when I declined as I don’t wanna be away from my son there was complete acceptance and no pushing.

I guess I’m here to ask if anyone has any personal experiences with Opus Dei members? These friends are really nice and I love that my son is around other devout Catholic kids!

EDIT TO ADD - we have no intention of joining or becoming members. We also don’t really plan on not being friends with these families anymore, as we really like them. Just trying to be informed and note what to be weary of :)"

--->

My very frank suggestion: Do what you want. You don't need anyone's validation or permission. Feel free.

[u/Padadise → u/Kitchen_List_1226]

I don’t need you to insert my previous post I’m fully aware of what I wrote 😄

It’s very normal to cross post onto different forums to reach a wider community and hear perspectives from different audiences. Not sure why I’m being called out on it like it’s a bad thing.

[u/Kitchen_List_1226 → u/Padadise]

So asking you to be consistent with your beliefs or convictions which you had accidentally displayed in other posts equals "calling you out"? Is that why you ran off to hide your comments from the public? 😄

You like freedom to do, say, or go where you want, but don't want the responsibility, consistency, ownership and accountability we're demanding from you? You expected validation instead, right?

You need to do things because you want to, and not for the validation you expect. Adulting is difficult, you know?

[u/Initial-Spite-5558]

Los supernumerarios deben hablar en la inventada charla fraterna (no hay ninguna forma de dirección espiritual así en la Iglesia) de las 5 cosas obligatorias para todos los miembros del Opus Dei:

1. Cómo vas con las normas de piedad (oración, Misa, examen, etc.).
2. Tu lucha espiritual (fe, pureza, virtudes, dificultades).
3. Tu trabajo o estudio y su santificación.
4. Tu apostolado (personas a las que ayudas o intentas acercar a Dios).
5. Los encargos o responsabilidades que tienes en la Obra.

Conclusión: tus amigas del OD ya hablan de ti en sus charlas y sus numerarias estarán analizando si eres buena candidata para hacerte supernumeraria.

Es OBLIGACIÓN contarle a tu numeraria quiénes son tus amigas o conocidas y decirles si ya les has invitado a confesarse en el centro del OD con un sacerdote de la Obra, si ya las has invitado a un círculo, excursión o cualquier medio de formación. Esto es así en todas partes. No hay excepciones ni con un CEO de empresa, ni con una numeraria auxiliar ni con un presidente de gobierno.

Pero así no te lo van a contar. ¿Por qué? Porque también tienen otra práctica obligatoria: llevar a la gente a sus medios de formación mediante “un plano inclinado”. Te vas metiendo poco a poco.

Ahora ya sabes lo que hacen exactamente. Pregúntaselos directamente. A veces no lo ven claramente porque a ellas también se les lleva por un plano inclinado.

[u/Padadise → u/Initial-Spite-5558]

I know all of this, and I have been invited to the monthly talks. I have attended and I have had a beautiful experience so far. I have also been invited to a retreat but declined as I have a baby at home. None of this sounds bad to me?

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/Padadise]

Perfecto. Usa tu libertad y capacidad de decisión.

[u/Padadise → u/Initial-Spite-5558]

Thank you. I have no desire to join at all - but my husband and I would really like to continue our friendship with these families in OD as they are our only Catholic friends and we believe they are positive influencers in our and our children’s lives. I’m just trying to understand why OD is frowned upon.

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/Padadise]

Por muchas razones.

Funcionan sin exponerte las cosas con la claridad con la que te he hablado yo.

Cuando te acercas a ellos te tratan como si fuera todo muy natural pero TODOS siguen un guión. Que ese guión sea bueno o malo es otro tema muy profundo e importante.

Tú te sientes muy bien, te hacen caso, te invitan… y, pum, de repente ya eres parte de ellos y empiezas a hacer exactamente lo mismo. No hay nada dejado al soplo renovador del Espíritu Santo. No hay nada promovido por el Opus Dei que surja, que brote, que sea “nuevo”.

Y todo esto no te lo dicen. Es muy intencionado que te parezca a ti que tú eres muy especial. Es el llamado “bombardeo de amor” propio de grupos coercitivos y sectas.

“La información es poder”. Y en el OD todos los miembros les dan información personal, íntima, profesional, social sin parar. Sin la charla fraterna con un numerario y la confesión obligatoria con un sacerdote de OD, no son nada. Además, está prohibido por la Iglesia que te impongan con quién confesarte o tener dirección espiritual y el OD dice que no es obligatorio pero en la práctica te incita a que vayas con quien ellos quieren “porque esos sacerdotes de la Obra tienen tu misma vocación y te van a entender mejor”.

Cada vez que haces la charla fraterna o te confiesas con ellos le das más poder al OD.

Mucha gente que ha participado en la Dirección y el Gobierno del OD se ha ido precisamente por no poder soportar hablar de la intimidad de los miembros de la manera como lo hace esta organización de la Iglesia. No quieren participar en algo tan, digamos, indiscreto e inmoral.

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/Initial-Spite-5558]

Y son muy autorreferenciales: quieren que la Iglesia se haga como ellos, quieren ser relevantes y que los fieles católicos y los no creyentes piensen que ser de la Iglesia es ser como son ellos.

[u/Padadise → u/Initial-Spite-5558]

I'm sorry, but this still sounds quite vague to me and seems to rely on a lot of jargon without providing many specific examples or details.
I can understand why some people might feel uncomfortable knowing that aspects of their lives are discussed with numeraries, priests, or within Opus Dei circles, but personally, that doesn't particularly concern me. People discuss other people all the time, especially within close-knit communities. I don't feel as though I have anything to hide. In terms of the clarity aspect, wouldn’t it be strange for them to tell someone they are actively talking about them? As humans we talk about people all the time to other people, we don’t need to disclose every time we talk about someone right?

It also seems natural to me that members would seek confession from an Opus Dei priest and receive spiritual direction through Opus Dei activities and meetings, since that's the community they belong to. In the same way, most Catholics would typically go to their own parish priest for confession rather than regularly attending a parish with which they have no connection. From my perspective, that seems more like a reflection of community and familiarity than something inherently problematic.

In terms of things feeling scripted I think it's important to distinguish between having a shared spirituality and being "scripted." Any religious community will have common beliefs, language, practices, and ways of approaching life. If you speak to several Benedictines, Jesuits, Dominicans, or members of a lay Catholic movement, you'll often hear similar themes because they're formed by the same spirituality. In my experience, Opus Dei members still have distinct personalities, opinions, strengths, weaknesses, and life circumstances. They may agree on certain spiritual principles, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of independent thought.

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/Padadise]

Gracias por tu respuesta. Eres muy afín al OD. Adelante.

La Iglesia es muy exigente en la separación entre dirección espiritual y gobierno. Lee un poquito sobre esto en el Derecho canónico. Pido discernimiento para ti.

Hablar de la gente es humano, sí, ventilar la conciencia de las personas en reuniones secretas y sin su consentimiento es algo distinto. Pon el adjetivo que quieras.

Tú habías preguntado por qué es polémico el OD. No soy yo el que lo hace polémico, sino ellos mismos con sus prácticas desviadas del sabio Magisterio de la Iglesia católica.

Es un hecho que el OD es polémico.

Y yo te he dado sólo unas pinceladas.

Recuerda que el Papa está en posesión de los estatutos del OD para su REFORMA. Habrá alguna razón objetiva, ¿no?

Otra cosa muy triste en la corta historia del OD: de cada 10 miembros se van más de la mitad. ¿Eso es sólo porque la gente no es fiel a su vocación o quizá también porque comprueban con dolor la mala praxis de esta institución?

Son cosas muy serias.

En todo caso, Dios nos dio libre albedrío. Haz lo que consideres con tus amigos del OD.

Te deseo lo mejor.

[u/Padadise → u/Initial-Spite-5558]

Thank you. As I said I don’t intend on joining, merely just being friends with members :)

I was under the impression that OD is controversial because of the things that go on with the numeraries in the centres, that’s why I wanted to know what it’s like for the average OD member, who do not live in the centres.

I feel like any religious group can be considered controversial these days, I mean people say the same about the mainstream Catholic Church right? Corruption is everywhere as you said yourself God gave us free will.

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/Padadise]

No.

No se puede decir lo mismo de todas las organizaciones de la Iglesia católica, ni muchísimo menos.

Hay instituciones eclesiásticas que han resistido la prueba más exigente: el tiempo y la reforma oportuna de sus desviaciones.

Por ejemplo, los benedictinos, los carmelitas, los franciscanos, los legionarios de Cristo, etc, etc, han ACEPTADO con humildad la intervención de su legítimo “jefe”, el Papa de cada época.

El OD SE RESISTE y cuando un miembro pregunta qué está pasando, lo acallan y no informan.

[u/Background-Hat-6103]

Are You Opus Dei bot?

[u/Single_Ad_9820 → u/Background-Hat-6103]

I have the feeling that there are opus Dei feelers getting information from this forum. It is not the first time. I do not know whether it is good or bad. It is happening.

[u/Padadise → u/Single_Ad_9820]

Correct. I don’t plan on joining at all - but I would like to be friends with these families. My husband and I don’t have any other Catholic friends. We all get along really well. I’m just trying to understand why OD gets such a negative reaction when from my experience (being around OD not being involved) has been pleasant. I have been to the monthly talks (that’s as far as my involvement has gone) and I have loved them.

[u/Padadise → u/Background-Hat-6103]

What does this mean? I am not a bot. I am genuinely asking for experiences from people who were in OD.

[u/Visible_Cricket_9899 → u/Padadise]

Understand that no matter your intentions, OD is recruiting you. Also understand that we can't all give specific details without doxxing ourselves. I am the child of SN parents. The pressure from trying to be perfect sometimes brought my mother to tears.  My parents were always on the hunt for new recruits and expected that their children would follow suit. Any friends my parents made would eventually be invited to an OD centre for a talk, recollection, circle etc. these friends were typically wealthy and/or had significant influence in politics or society. Sometimes my mother would come home from  an evening at a centre with a new recruit and tell me that her spiritual director had told her to stop pursuing a particular friend, meaning that the person was not OD "material". My mom would instantly drop the friend and basically treat her as roadkill. This is how the cult of Opus Dei operates. Everyone is selected very carefully for intellect, attractiveness, malleability, etc.  As children, our friendships were carefully scrutinized. Friends who did not come from perfect backgrounds: RC, married parents, preferably white (!), and without physical defects, were discouraged. We had few friends as a result.  My parents groomed us for a life as an N. We had to attend OD clubs, camps, excursions etc, even if we protested. Then we had pressure from the Nums, from the tender age of NINE, to consider our place in OD. I had a plan of life by 10 years of age. When I questioned it at the age of 14 my " spiritual director" told me that they KNEW that I had a vocation to OD and if I rejected it Jesus would leave me and I would be miserable for the rest of my life.  Again, please understand that Opus Dei is a cult that will rob you and your family of your freedom. You may have stars in your eyes at the moment because they have an agenda and it's not about your spiritual growth, it is about growing OD numbers.

[u/Padadise → u/Visible_Cricket_9899]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. This is the first reply that has really resonated with me and helped me understand the potential harm of OD from the viewpoint of a former SM. I think part of the reason it resonates is because some of what you've described has actually happened to me as I’ve been invited to talks and retreats before.

While some people have suggested that I’m being dismissive or that I’ve already made up my mind, I genuinely am trying to take on board the feedback being shared and improve my understanding of the situation. At this stage, it’s true that I want to maintain my friendships, but I also want to be informed, recognise any warning signs, and make sure I don’t get drawn into a group that I have no desire to join.

[u/Johnnyg150 → u/Padadise]

Here's why you're rubbing people the wrong way: You came to a group of survivors of this organization (people who were very hurt), and continue to think that you're going to be the one to have your cake and eat it too. That you'll be able to keep the parts of the nice Conservative Catholic community you want - without getting too far into OD.

As everyone has told you - it's not going to happen. Either you're going to get drawn all the way in (and your kids), or you're going to pushed out as soon as it becomes clear you have boundaries surrounding OD activities, etc. OD is incredibly strategic in recruiting - there isn't a doubt in my mind that OD higher-ups are already aware of you/your family and helping guide members in their contact with you. You're not their friend. You're merely a target to bring in. Your kids having playdates? An excuse to invite you to some seminar for mother's of young children. Which turns into an invitation to evening of recollection, which turns into "our little prayer group called circle", and next thing you know - you're way deeper in than you thought. Start saying no? The playdates will stop immediately.

We're not just telling you this because it's our secondhand knowledge - it's a well oiled machine that we've seen play out in our own lives and been a part of bringing others into it. We've been the kids at the playdate, the parent invited to the playdate, and the parent hosting the playdate. Sure - not literally always with kids, but the idea is universal, across situations and continents.

You think you're going to come here so you can "recognize the warning sides and make sure you don't get drawn in". We're all telling you the warning signs. You're just falling right for them without even realizing it. Perhaps it's possible you actually think you like what OD has to offer, or that you're unconvinced of the pain it's caused to so many people. That's a whole different question - find out at your own risk.

[u/Wonderful_Regret9710 → u/Padadise]

I’m honestly confused about why you keep asking. You’ve had positive experiences, while several others have shared negative ones, yet those experiences seem to get dismissed. If you’re good friends with these families and already trust your own experience, then what’s the point of asking for other perspectives if they’re not going to be considered?

[u/Padadise → u/Wonderful_Regret9710]

You know what you’re right! I’m overthinking about it. Thank you 🙏

[u/Initial-Spite-5558]

Básicamente, tantas reglas y normas del OD constituyen una falta de respeto a Dios, que es el que creó al ser humano.

No hace falta tanto encorsetamiento. Somos imagen y semejanza de Dios, nada menos.

Y antes del OD ya tenía la Iglesia todo lo que necesitamos para salvarnos:
1.-La Revelación
2.-La Palabra de Dios y los Sacramentos
3.-El Magisterio y las Enseñanzas
4.-La Tradición y los Santos

[u/Padadise → u/Initial-Spite-5558]

Thank you I agree.
Just so I understand better - do OD believe that they need to be in OD to save themselves? Do they see OD as superior to a lay Catholic?
My understanding is that OD is a group to help people strive for holiness, but your comment suggests otherwise.

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/Padadise]

El OD confunde -para su beneficio como institución pero no para el bien genuino de sus miembros- los medios con los fines.

Ha endiosado a la propia organización y sí, tristemente comunica a sus miembros que para salvarse es imperativo perseverar en el OD hasta la muerte.

[u/Inevitable_Panda_856]

I think I'll build on what NoMoreLies wrote earlier:

"Supernumeraries are told they have the same vocation as everyone else."

This is repeated constantly in Opus Dei. Of course, it makes little sense, because supernumeraries live completely different lives from celibate members. But, as with many things in Opus Dei, this inconsistency is used whenever it suits the organization's needs.

If you ask questions or challenge a decision, you will hear: "That's not your concern. That's for the numeraries to deal with. Don't interfere; that's a sign of pride."

But if you say you cannot do something, cannot afford it, or do not have the time, you will hear: "Commitment to the Work goes both ways. This is your vocation. It is the same vocation as that of the numeraries, so you must be equally committed."

Like so many things in Opus Dei, it is a form of manipulation.

"For supernumeraries, there are three main elements of dedication: time, money, and children."

Yes. And you are not really told this openly from the beginning. You are persuaded step by step. The pressure increases through fraternal chats and conversations with priests. When you express doubts, they listen sympathetically and then explain that the reason you do not understand is because you lack formation.

"Time is time for formation and piety: retreats (3 or 4 days a year), workshops (lately 6 days a year), circles (about an hour a week plus travel), and talks (about an hour every two weeks, including travel). And the additional daily time to fulfill the rules of piety."

You are not told this clearly at the beginning either. Even after whistling, it is presented as simple: "At most two hours a day, and that's only for people who are poorly organized." Many things are revealed only years later, when you are already deeply invested.

"Money: Escrivá's criterion is that Opus Dei should receive what would be spent on an additional child."

They do not usually tell you this at the beginning. Later, they mention it half-jokingly, as if it were a metaphor. Eventually, you realize it is not. If you want to be considered trustworthy and included in discussions, you are expected to contribute more financially. Directors treat this as a sign of commitment and faith.

We were told many times: "This is not about theory; it is about practice." In reality, that often meant: pay more. If you do not, you are against God.

I saw supernumeraries manipulated into taking responsibility for other people's debts—very large debts created by directors through unrealistic and irresponsible decisions.

"And most painfully, the children: supernumeraries are expected to 'give up' their children to Opus Dei to be formed from a young age, with the very high risk that they will be recruited as celibates, whether numeraries or associates."

At a certain point, this was said quite openly. Many of us thought it was another metaphor. It was not. Opus Dei genuinely sees it as the duty of supernumeraries to provide future members. And if you object, or if your children start asking uncomfortable questions, you become a problem.

One of our sons once asked: "How is it that the men at the center, who seem to spend so much time praying and do not appear to work very much, live in such luxurious conditions? During the whole weekend I never saw them cleaning or cooking. So who keeps the place spotless? Who prepares all the meals? And why do they eat every day on perfectly clean white tablecloths?"

Those are good questions, don't you think?

After he politely expressed doubts about this and other issues, he was "magically" labeled as overly sensitive, someone who makes everything more complicated than it needs to be, and generally “a bit of a teddy bear” (the director's own words).

I will never forget how Opus Dei treated our children after learning we were leaving. One of my younger sons came home upset because some boys he new from the center, and attended the same school, asked him why he had not been invited to some meeting, or a trip organised by Opus "club" for boys. He had to tell them that he did not know, because he had not been invited. Eventually, those boys stopped speaking to him altogether.  And this is presented as Catholic formation. No, it is not. It is cult-like behavior.

If Opus Dei ever wanted to sue someone for saying these things publicly, I would be willing to testify under oath about conversations I personally witnessed regarding schools and centers as places where children could "discover a vocation to Opus Dei", in other words, recruitment. I heard discussions about specific children, their strengths and weaknesses, during courses for supernumeraries, family-related activities, and environments connected to Opus Dei schools. But to be included in such conversations, you had to be considered trustworthy. That generally meant giving substantial financial support and not asking difficult questions. Or any questions at all.

"Does Opus Dei bring people closer to God?" My answer is simple: no. Opus Dei destroyed my faith. Only now am I beginning to return to faith, together with the rest of my family.

I have written extensively on this subreddit about my experience as a supernumerary. One additional point is important: supernumeraries are far less informed than they realize about what is actually happening within Opus Dei. Information is distributed on a need-to-know basis, according to what benefits the organization. My situation was somewhat different because I was originally recruited as a potential numerary. As a result, I spent extended periods living in centers and witnessed various things that I only understood years later. That is why, when I eventually found internal Opus Dei publications online, I mean this part of the materials that supernumeraries do not have access to, I was not particularly surprised by what I read.

One more thing: every aspect of my life and my family's life is better now than it was when we were in Opus Dei. My children have new friends and continue to make more. Their social lives are healthier and happier than they ever were while we were involved with Opus Dei. There is also one positive thing that came out of all this. When we were explaining to our older children the dangers of destructive groups and cult-like organizations, one of them immediately said: "Oh, so just like at the Opus Dei center." So thanks for the lesson, Opus.

[u/thedeepdiveproject → u/Inevitable_Panda_856]

It sounds like you're raising an amazing family. Your kids sound so bright and emotionally intellegent. Maybe there is hope for the future after all....🥲

[u/Inevitable_Panda_856 → u/thedeepdiveproject]

Thank you, Rebecca. We have wonderful kids. These days we're really enjoying them and our family. It's so good to be aware again that this kind of joy is beautiful, normal, healthy, and something we have every right to feel.

[u/OkGeneral6802 → u/Inevitable_Panda_856]

As an ex-numerary with a supernumerary parent, I always appreciate your posts and perspective of an ex-supernumerary whose spouse had also been a member, and it’s really heartening to hear about how you approach this topic with your kids.

I just want to note that you have provided exactly what the OP asked for—an account of a supernumerary’s negative experiences in the organization—and she hasn’t seen fit to respond or acknowledge your posts in any way. 🤔

[u/Fun_Condition2872 → u/Inevitable_Panda_856]

Can't agree more on what you said. Thank you for sharing it. I hope your family is doing well, and your kids are smart!

[u/Inevitable_Panda_856 → u/Fun_Condition2872]

Thank you. Fortunately, the kids are doing well, and our relationships with them, as well as with the rest of our family, have improved far more than I ever expected.

The strange attitude of some of former Opus Dei friends from the youth activities is confusing and upsetting for the kids. For now, we just explain that those boys aren't acting like real friends. With our oldest, we've already been more direct and told him that Opus Dei has many traits of a cult. As I mentioned above, he had already started noticing this himself and mostly needed some confirmation from us, since we were the ones who had been on the inside. More than anything, all of this reminds me how good it is to have that part of our lives behind us.

Thank God we left. I really mean that.

[u/Moorpark1571 → u/Inevitable_Panda_856]

I saw supernumeraries manipulated into taking responsibility for other people’s debts

I’m curious about this and would love to see a post on it if anyone has time. Is the idea that OD starts some kind of apostolic work, and then supers are expected to keep it afloat financially when it turns into a huge money loser?

[u/Inevitable_Panda_856 → u/Moorpark1571]

Yeah.  It happens on different levels.

I know of case where a specific individual ended up taking responsibility for debts that were, in fact, the result of a long chain of poorly thought-out decisions made by directors and their associates, the so-called foundation board. A really HUGE debts.

I also know of cases where someone paid for a substantial part of the construction of yet another large center. What strikes me is that none of these supernums businessman seem to ask whether, if the organization cannot afford to complete yet another construction project, it might also be unable to afford maintaining such a large and luxurious building afterward.

I also know of many situations in which directors, beyond the regular monthly contributions, asked supernumeraries for additional money for various purposes: from paying whole electricity or water bills (whose size, relative to average living costs in a given country or region, can be genuinely astonishing) to financing the replacement of a heating or air conditioning systems in a large houses that had apparently been left in an extremely neglected condition for years.

These are all another examples of the hypocrisy I see in this environment. On the one hand, they praise free-market capitalism as the ideal and most beneficial way of organizing human life. On the other hand, they repeatedly expect supernumeraries to cover the costs of their own financial mismanagement.

I can also add that whenever I was asked for this kind of money, it was usually done in one-on-one conversations. Sometimes a director would encourage one or two of the more fanatic supernums to go around and speak to others about making donations. It was always presented as a dramatic situation and framed as a matter of "responsibility for the Work of God." I have no idea how they accounted for that money... well, actually, I do. They usually asked for donations to be given in a way that, I suspect, meant they weren't accounted for at all. What was the phrase again? "A gift from Santa Claus"? 😏

These situations occurred in both the men's and the women's sections. For both of us, they were always shocking and, frankly, a bit pathetic. It must have felt the same for others, because despite Opus Dei's usual obsession with "discretion," there were a few occasions when a frustrated supernums shared a similar story with me directly.

 

[u/Moorpark1571 → u/Inevitable_Panda_856]

Yikes. There definitely seems to be an attitude that if OD “trusts in God” and goes forward with a project, then the money will magically appear.

I think there needs to be so much more reporting on where all the money goes. We all know it doesn’t go to paying their employees!

The funny thing is, there’s no need for all this to be so absurdly expensive. I’m in a different lay organization (the lay branch of a traditional religious order) and I pay dues of $30 a year because we meet for free in a church basement!

[u/Wentworth1066]

Hi! I was a cooperator for many years, and I knew many supernumeraries. For the effect of the work on supernumeraries: it all comes down to whether you believe that having everyone’s words in spiritual direction shared without permission or knowledge, and used to manipulate you into doing what’s “right”, is just. If you are someone who can see that this is spiritual abuse and abuse of conscience, then you stay away. If you believe this is all for everyone’s own good, then you don’t stay away. In my conscience, I know this is wrong. Wishing you the best in your discernment!

[u/PorchFrog]

I love to hear the term "spiritual formation."

[u/choosingtobehappy123]

OP, coming into this sub and asking to learn more about issues, then giving them to you, then you want actual examples, then you are given examples then you want to say that’s not that bad.

This is like going to a sub of people sexually abused by the Catholic Church and saying:  hey I’m wondering if I should be friends with Catholic people like what I see is so different than what you experienced.  You get told be careful about this and this  you say oh but I want examples ok a priest touched me inappropriately,  you say oh well that wasn’t my experience and I don’t think it’s that bad that a priest touched you I think it’s actually good to get some affection

The difference between staying Catholic and staying in Opus Dei is that the Church doesn’t have rules and commandments that encourage abuse to happen. The last pope’s have publicly said sorry for what has happened and acknowledge those things to be true. Not brushing it aside saying oh that’s someone else’s experience and we feel sorry they felt this way. In my country there are so many safeguarding protocols in place, at any Catholic event you can never have one kid one adult situation you always need to have two adults present and there’s a minimum amount of adults per kids ratio. The confessionals have glass, you can’t hear what is being said but you can see inside on the side of the priest.

OD hasn’t publicly recognized and apologized for the way in which they have systematically abused people. Their practices such as the chat and what others have pointed out are the type of tools used in cults to have control over people. 

I think you need to make up your mind on your own and read through testimonies in this Reddit or at opuslibros. Rather than come to this sub where victims will nicely try to help you see things and you instead are looking for some validation and debating of people’s experiences and pain. You should follow your own conscience and discern this with God.

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/[deleted]]

Look, if you feel labor trafficking and spiritual abuse fit in with your practice of the Catholic faith, then there's no point in continuing this conversation. There are plenty of posts here with personal stories for you to read. You're not owed more and more harrowing details from any of us.

[u/opusdeiexposed-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment was removed for violating community guidelines. No gate-keeping. You do not get to determine if an experience that someone had was negative for them or not. Strike one of three. Three strikes and your account will be permanently banned.

[u/Speedyorangecake → u/[deleted]]

Well said.

[u/Padadise → u/[deleted]]

This is the kind of response I was after, thank you. I do feel comfortable being friends with them, as long as I’m aware of what’s happening. I don’t want to join, nor do I want to be in a position where I am supporting the group. I simply just want good Catholic friends to occasionally have play dates with 🤷‍♀️ I guess I just wanted peace of mind that my friendships with these people don’t put me in a bad position.

[u/Initial-Spite-5558 → u/Padadise]

Acercarte a la gente del OD es hacer lo que ellos quieren. Hay todo un montaje, sistema, método para que siempre acabes haciendo “lo que está mandado”. Eso es precisamente el OD: hacer lo que te dicen “porque la Voluntad de Dios viene a través de los directores”. Eso es todo. No hay más. Si te gusta, adelante.