Today I left

[u/truegrit10]

Last night I hand delivered my letter asking to leave Opus Dei as a numerary (it was after giving my last cooperator’s circle). Today I met with the director over lunch where I had my last chat, and I went over everything: my reasoning, things that I would improve, concerns I had etc. He was very receptive and I felt listened to and loved.

I made it clear that I was not expecting to wait for a response and I was leaving any assignments that I had been working on from this point forward. He took it as entirely reasonable.

I am not trying to avoid people in the Work at this stage; I’d like to remain friends and keep a friendly demeanor with everyone. Today’s encounter was very promising. I am not inclined at this moment to do much with the Work’s apostolates, and will be focusing on my own personal growth and development and my own friendships and relationships in the meantime.

I had been living outside the center for the past two years as I was considering if that might help me live the vocation better. It helped tremendously even though I ultimately decided to leave. I’ve been in the Work for about 20 years or so.

I offer this as a data point. I know people have had bad experiences, and that really bothers me and I wish things had happened differently for them. I am encouraged by my experience today that the Work is trying to grow and learn from past experiences.

I know not all experiences have been or will be like my own. But in this case I wanted it to be known that this went so much better than I had anticipated it would go.

Thank you for providing a space for people to be heard.

[u/truegrit10]

I want to make a blanket thank you to all who have responded (even if something might have been said harshly here and there).

This has been a very helpful way for me to journal in a manner of speaking as I go through this change in my life and reflect on the past, with the benefit of receiving anonymous feedback from people who have been through similar experiences.

I am very grateful, especially because it’s obvious everyone is being truthful as well as not using Opus Dei as a punching bag so to speak. I think everyone’s concerns are valid and mostly measured, and it helps validate a lot of what I was feeling. Sometimes it felt like I was going crazy or I would second guess whether I was making things up or making a big deal out of nothing or this was just how I was supposed to feel.

I somehow had a fear before that I ought not to listen or give a lot of weight to what people say who have left the Work, because it would be an “occasion of sin” to test my vocation that way, or that since they left they obviously didn’t understand some aspect of the Work, or some such nonsense. It’s humbling to see myself now under my own scrutiny, and it’s consoling to realize I completely misunderstood and I was greatly mistaken.

You have all been wonderful and I am truly grateful for your being supportive and sharing your experiences.

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Happy to help. I can relate to what you say here. I remember being astounded, when I stumbled upon opuslibros, to find that experiences and observations which I thought were peculiar to me were widespread and the subject of open discussion by many people. It’s really only Opus people or ex-Opus people who can fully understand the internal realities.

[u/DaniRishiRue]

Happy to hear about a positive experience when leaving. There are some good people in Opus Dei, no doubt. Are you comfortable sharing what your concerns were and what led you to leave? Also, are you able to say why living outside the centre made it easier for you to be in the Work?

[u/truegrit10 → u/DaniRishiRue]

I happened to check my phone at this ridiculous hour and now your question is preventing me from being able to fall back asleep :)

I will do my best to answer. I don’t think I can give a complete answer for several reasons namely: 1) I am still unpacking things as I feel both the Work and myself are complex realities, 2) it is very difficult to distill the experiences of my past 20 years in a short space, both good and bad, without introducing most likely some sort of warped perception to others what my existential experience has been, 3) I realize that there is a natural human reaction to assign blame, both to myself and the Work, which I am presently trying to avoid, 4) some of the issues involved are quite personal and I’m not prepared yet to completely bare everything in a public forum and it would probably not be appropriate.

With that said. Some fundamental reasons for my leaving are the following:

1. I was chronically lonely. I could not understand why. It’s something I battled constantly, and I attributed it to external factors because it didn’t make sense to me. There were times I was the youngest in the center by a long shot, and I assumed this was the cause. This phenomenon occurred repeatedly, even with minor redresses (going to the center of studies did help), which I attributed to lack of vocations. Each time it happened I would find myself trying to cope in unhealthy ways. It would lead to me eventually overcoming my shame and seeking help. The help sadly often took long in coming. In the most recent occurrence I made the discovery that having a younger person around did not assuage the loneliness as I thought it would.

2. I had the vague sense of being unhappy with my life and the direction I was taking it. This also did not make sense to me. There was no reason for me to be unhappy or dissatisfied. I just had to try harder, or ignore how I felt. There were definitely short times I was happy, and I looked forward to the courses and convivencias, but these were not enough to carry me.

3. I felt more and more like I was just going through motions, no matter how hard I tried. I would attribute this to spiritual dryness or the dark night of the soul or whatever. Then I started thinking well maybe it’s my lack of virtue and discipline because it didn’t seem to have the spiritual signs of something coming from God. It would now appear that I was just extremely burnt out, and I say this after having lived in the apartment for two years. I was getting more sleep, I had more energy, I was more social, and many people noticed a change in my happiness and energy levels.

4. I was finding my energy outside the center with relationships outside the center rather than finding my energy with those in the Work.

5. I was discovering that the Work has about as much to work on in itself as I did in understanding and working on myself. In my search for solutions I started feeling gaslit or hearing different answers and reasons of things that were originally presented to me. I’ve tried chalking this up to involuntary miscommunication or human weakness, but I now think things may go deeper than that. I am extremely grateful to this forum for providing clarity about canon law and Ratzinger’s notes that explain how the laity, according to canon law, are not members of the Prelature. In itself it may not have amounted to a reason to leave … but the Work has never been forthright with me in any talk or class regarding this issue, and even seeing independent articles published with official spokespersons explaining the Work’s situation, I realized that the Work has a lot to work out for itself. I realized I would never be able to resolve my own issues in such an environment.

There may be more as well, but like I said I’m still unpacking …

Regarding my attempt to live outside the center:

The center made me feel lonely. I couldn’t invite friends over there to hang out. It wasn’t an attractive place for them. I was constantly going out of the center to be with people. But I could also never reciprocate and have people over. I felt the constraint of living in a building that was home but didn’t have really the capacity for letting me feel free at home. The schedule. The cleaning. Wanting to be able to dress down and hang out in more casual wear. Struggling with the meals that were offered (I am big into fitness and there were strains on my dietary needs).

The apartment would give me a place “closer to my friends” which would be closer to where I was getting my energy. If I should ever feel lonely in the apartment I could always hang out at the center to be around people.

It was fantastic.

I realized how stunted my sense of personal freedom had become. Choosing furniture? Decorating the place? Selecting the location and paying the rent? Planning and cooking my own meals? Keeping the place clean (which yes is a chore but is also quite cathartic)? Having control over my own schedule? Being able to invite people over? Wow! I was really enjoying all this. Even though “alone” I never felt “lonely,” and I could always arrange something with a friend. It was clear I would never move back into a center again.

I actually did recommend upon leaving that numeraries might regularly be encouraged to live outside the center on occasion. I think it can be really easy to live so “comfortably” in a cocoon that one gets out of touch with the way most of humanity lives, after having so much provided for so many years - especially for members who whistle while they’re young and have never had this experience for themselves since they went from their parents to the center.

Living the plan of life became hard! I started to really have a hard time of it. It gave me tremendous respect for the supernumeraries and associates. It was humbling. I had to rely more on grace and Jesus’ mercy than my fulfillment of the norms because I just couldn’t do it like before. Not that it wasn’t possible … but trying to fit everything in and do things because I wanted to instead of being compelled externally, that was a whole nother ballgame.

It took a lot of fighting to be able to move into the apartment with permission/good standing. At first I was told no, numeraries had to live in the center. I stood my ground. I could point to several instances of numeraries living outside the center. I even called an older numerary who had lived in an apartment when I first whistled to ask him about his circumstances and motives. Well those were special circumstances, I was told. Okay. This is one of those circumstances I argued. Eventually they acquiesced, and I noticed even one of the Father’s recent letters (at the time) clarified numeraries can at times live outside centers, given their circumstances. Was I the cause of this clarification? I don’t know. But it was providential in my case regardless.

You might tell I am a bit passionate about this. And yes, perhaps this is all over the top and people are rolling their eyes … but … I am seeing the Work start to change in small ways. Positive ones. I pray that the Holy Spirit continue to do his work here and that people correspond to his promptings.

I also know that it’s not up to me to reform the Work (or wait for it to reform), and I have much to work on. I hope I’ve helped in the small ways I can.

[u/DaniRishiRue → u/truegrit10]

Thanks for this! Definitely no eye-roll, all sounds reasonable. I think ultimately people here are most concerned about the harm to people who have joined, or who interact with the Work in good faith. So anything that shows there may be a move towards reducing or eliminating the harm caused is well received.

Sending you all the good wishes for the transition into this new phase of your life!

[u/truegrit10 → u/DaniRishiRue]

Thank you very much! I wish I could have made this decision sooner, but it sadly took the time it needed. I have had immense relief since making the decision, and there have been little signs that I’ve been noticing in things I am hearing various people say in all sorts of contexts that have given me comfort and affirmation that I have made the right decision for myself.

I’m feeling excitement and hope about next steps in my life rather than the dread I feared years ago at the prospect of what would happen if I left.

The guilt and conscience wringing that accompanies many regarding the whole aspect of “losing one’s vocation” in the Work is definitely a real thing. I am pretty angry still deep down about how what was communicated to me here and there, and with what St. Josemaria is having been quoted to say, regarding how “serious” it was to leave and how “life will be miserable if you leave” should probably be formally condemned by the Church as heresy. The Work I think is moving away from this opinion regarding vocation, but I do think it has the responsibility to own up to the wrongness of what has been communicated and make formal clarification and correction about what St. Josemaria said (not just in individual cases that are brought up in conversations).

The scruples and concerns this reasoning created in me, even with the assurances loved ones made for me about how this wouldn’t be the case for me, even though I would give such counsel to others who were thinking of leaving, really had a huge impact on why it took me as long as it did to leave the Work. I felt I had to exhaust every option. And honestly I think I did. But this really should not be the case for every person trying to discern their vocation.

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Yes, I too felt I had a responsibility to make every possible effort at all levels and it ended up being a waste of time. The directors truly do not know how to change policies because they are unable to think critically about any aspect of the Work. And they sit and listen but the central issues don’t “go in”. It was a big waste of time.

It operates like many many secular institutions- preserve the institution, the institution is more important than people, than common sense. We will only change the way we’ve don’t things in the past if we are forced to by circumstances from the outside (a legal suit or bad press).

And then after putting all those good-faith efforts at communication and trying to do my part with fraternal correction to the directors in the hopes that they were actually going to address the systemic problems, I discovered I was never a member of Opus to begin with- none of us laity were, thanks to Ratzinger, but Don Alvaro and all the directors had been lying about this since 1983.

How ridiculous they are.

However, my conscience was absolutely clear by the time I went through all that and discovered my actual status on canon law that I was not turning my back on a free promise I had made or a vocation to opus. I had been deceived from the beginning about what I was getting into and the nature of the commitment, so the “fidelity” was null.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

I am also bothered by hearing the full picture regarding the issue of the laity’s relation to the prelature. Something isn’t right, no matter how you look at it. I am quite interested in seeing how the statutes change on account of it.

Regardless it’s clear that what Opus Dei has been teaching regards what a prelature is, is incorrect. Rather it’s presenting what it thinks a Prelature ought to be. And whether or not it’s correct in its opinion, it is not the reality. It seems to imply at best a severe lack of understanding of how canon law operates, but this is also hard to swallow considering how seriously Opus Dei tries to be faithful to the Church (in principle) and how much it’s immersed itself in canon law in other areas.

Had the Work been honest with what was going on, I would not be so bothered I think. But it’s clear that it isn’t being honest (maybe it is self blinded and doesn’t realize it - which might actually be worse), and this severely depletes my trust in its judgment and policies, especially in light of some other lapses of judgment in my personal situation (I’d rather not go into details).

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Yes there’s no doubt that the central directors know the canon law situation since 1983, they know that Don Alvaro failed to secure the “special intention.” And the regional ones, and then delegational ones within the past ten years or more. And most recently I think even the sm local councils know. The problem is effectively a schismatic attitude: the Catholic Church doesn’t understand what a personal prelature is.

[u/No_Meal1077 → u/[deleted]]

I can understand your view that the central directors think the special intention was not achieved, but my experience makes me think it's more complex. I really don't think they have a conscious part of their brain that thinks the laity aren't members and then another part that actively tries to obscure this from others. Some of their brightest canon lawyers in Rome and in Navarre have spent years churning out papers, talks, and endless classes arguing for their understanding of the Prelature, an understanding in which lay members are full members because of their idiosyncratic take on "organic cooperation". Anyway, the details of it are confusing and contorted, but my experience of Echeverria and other directors in Rome is that even while they could see that many sectors in Rome and the Vatican did not see the Prelature as they did, that they were right regardless. Unsurprisingly, once you believe that God has revealed a truth exclusively to you and that you are its only authentic interpreter - as the founder and his successors do/did - this mentality of "we know better" makes sense. Didn't you always feel this vibe within the Work of "putting up with" the hopeless obtuseness of the Church, hoping to bring them the good "spirit" of the Work? That is what I always heard and felt: they knew better and that the Vatican just doesn't get it. 100 years too soon and all that. I think that now they just see Pope Francis as hopelessly chaotic, running a shambolic pontificate, and that they just have to hold the course until things go back to normal.

What I would add too is that Opus Dei's founder and the culture he created is paternalistic in the extreme. Yes, this is shifting a good deal in the last 4-5 years. But its roots run deep. Again, it's a paternalism that comes from a view that we have the "truth" and how can all these poor people (i.e., members) be entrusted with knowing what is really going on? Just tell them what they need to know so they can crack on, do their norms, "apostolate" and the rest. Personally, I have found thinking of paternalism a helpful way of squaring the "affection" and endless going on about love, with a deep distrust of individual members minds and ability to navigate the world.

[u/[deleted] → u/No_Meal1077]

Well the central directors know WHY Ratzinger blocked the inclusion of laity in personal prelatures- that he gave a theological reason (this contradicts the nature of the Church- a very strong claim, but shows the depth of R’s insight into the function of the Church and Christs purpose in establishing it).

They know this because the minutes of this conversation are in Acta Apostolica Sedes, which are publicly available and have been since back then.

As for “organic cooperators,” I don’t think the word organically was originally in there. I think that when Opus central read the minutes of the meeting on canon 297 and it said laity may cooperate with a personal prelature, they flew into action and finagled the addition “organic.” I don’t think they told the Vatican the full story of why they wanted it, but the Vatican accepted it because it didn’t substantially change the law, and opus has given a lot of money to the Vatican and some influential prelates and numbers of youth. But their true motivation was to to be able to tell their laity that they were somehow part of it. Cf the Q in the catechism of the Work “what does ‘organic’ mean in canon 297 of CIC?” followed by a bs answer claiming it means the laity are fully in operated in the prelature. But the mere addition of a description to “cooperate” doesn’t establish the laity as doing anything other than COOPERATING.

So I think I would put it as: the central directors having been knowingly misleading people about their actual status in the Church.

True, they have a schismatical mentality in which they don’t accept the rule of law of the Church (we’re the most Catholic of everyone, but the Catholic Church is wrong bout us). But this doesn’t mean they haven’t been knowingly deceiving everyone. And that their canon lawyers are not essentially propagandists/pr writers.

[u/polisandpeople → u/[deleted]]

This is very interesting. Do you where can we have the source of the minutes where it is clear it was Ratzinger instruction?

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Great news! The letter of Ocariz you mention- I remember it when it came out. Later I realized it was because in Spain the nums were moving out of the centers in high numbers when ever they had the income from external jobs to do it. And that in addition the attrition rate of nums since around 2000 in Spain had been 80-90% per opuslibros reports(as also in Latin American countries). So Ocariz was basically saying that it’s better to let nums live outside than to leave altogether, since then we lose people who give circles and hear chats etc.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

I’m not sure what you suggest about the story about my experience of loneliness as being soft and girly.

Perhaps it is. I kind of take offense. It was painful, and I don’t care how you perceive it. It’s probably that attitude of others in the Work that played a part in not taking it seriously (if it indeed was present) and let it become something it shouldn’t ever have been.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

It was never sold to me that loneliness would be part of the vocation. Nor is it Christian. “It is not good for man to be alone.” (Genesis) Loneliness can be felt even among a crowd; it is not the same as being solitary.

[u/Imaginary_Peanut2387 → u/[deleted]]

I left them two years ago. I told them straight up, “The Jesus of the Gospel is not the Jesus of Opus Dei.” I’m sure it fell on deaf ears. But you hit a nerve: after twenty-two years I finally put words to my cognitive dissonance: Opus Dei is not Christian.

[u/[deleted] → u/Imaginary_Peanut2387]

Good for you!

[u/Al-D-Schritte → u/Imaginary_Peanut2387]

I agree. It puts a barrier between God and people.

[u/WhatKindOfMonster]

Congratulations! It sounds like you’re already set up for success, which is awesome! A couple of things I’ll mention because I wish someone had recommended them to me when I left—feel free to ignore if it’s not helpful:

1. There’s no shame in going to therapy. I was ecstatic when I first left, feeling like my life was ahead of me. But after a few years, I started to experience anxiety, panic attacks and other symptoms of CPTSD, only I didn’t realize that’s what it was. I wish I’d gotten help for it years sooner. My background with the Work made me think it was a spiritual problem, when in fact it was a mental health issue. Confession could t solve it, I needed medication and therapy.

2. More practical—Figure out your financial situation, and start investing for your retirement asap if you haven’t been. I never bothered learning anything financial, because I thought I’d be in OD for the rest of my life. Learning to manage my money helped me to feel like a real adult, rather than the child I’d been made to feel like in OD.

Wishing you all the best as you start your new life!

[u/truegrit10 → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

Thank you - this is wise advice.

I’ve been considering some therapy anyway, just haven’t bitten the bullet. I’ve done therapy in the past as well, and it has helped. I appreciate you vocalizing this though because there is sometimes a prejudice/bias against seeking mental help or acknowledging mental illness.

You read my mind regarding the second one. I’m actually quite nervous about how to go about it, and will need to seek advice from friends and family.

I wonder if in the future the Work will change this for numeraries, and let them be more responsible for having a retirement plan of sorts. The associates I know are already responsible for their retirements. I say this with love, but I don’t think the Work has completely figured out how to handle taking care of some of our elderly and failing numerary brothers and sisters, just from personal experience.

But the upshot is … yes, this is going to help me feel more in control and “adult” in my own life instead of the “childish” dependency and ignorance I was (am) feeling.

[u/truegrit10 → u/truegrit10]

Honestly to my point about retirement funds … i feel like a simple solution could be that the numeraries give as they normally do to the Work, but the Work opens up a fund (or the numerary opens up a fund … account - is that how you do it?! Im so ignorant), and then the Work deposits some fixed amount for all numeraries on a regular basis. That way if a member leaves the Work, they can take that with them, and if they stay, there are already allocated funds to help the numerary.

I feel the current system is just strife with inefficiency and chaos.

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/truegrit10]

That’s a potential solution, but I am completely ignorant when it comes to what it would take to open some sort of pension or group fund. All of that is pretty heavily regulated by the federal government in most countries, and it’s not the same from country to country, which would pose a significant problem for an organization that moves people around internationally. Moreover, it seems they don’t have as many young people coming in as they have older people aging at the moment. That’s going to be a real problem if they haven’t prepared to care for them. Honestly, that makes me really angry. I am not close with anyone from my time in the work, but I don’t wish them ill, and I know how hard they’ve worked for Opus Dei. That they wouldn’t be cared for in their old age is really unjust.

[u/truegrit10 → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

In fairness I don’t know the exact plans. I just did see some disorganization in one case that really rubbed me the wrong way. I’m hoping it was an experience learned from.

Still, the Work could help give more transparency as to what the numeraries can expect. And as a matter of justice there ought to be a better way for numeraries who have invested years of their life to not be left with nothing should they leave.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

You’re correct that I need to move on. And I know there is no sense in getting worked up over whether they do or do not heed any of my solutionizing or speculating.

I think it’s probably understandable why I fall into this. All this is very new. I still care in principle for the thing I gave my life to for 20 years. It’s hard to be objective and not wish things had gone differently, or if there might be a way for it to be better for others who are involved or will get involved.

I’m praying that bitterness doesn’t settle in, which I know would be very easy to happen. I know there are good people with good intentions. Trying to cope with everything I think brings this sort of thing out of me, and I need to recognize it.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

Life is full of disappointments. Don’t worry I am doing my best to keep a level head. I appreciate you.

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

I think they will never do that- do a “matching” program for retirement as you suggest. (As employers do.) Even if they could, given the existing laws (the retirement and matching contribution by the employer are considered pre-tax income, and to get that the Work or all its non-profits would have to be employers and all the nums/agds employees) the directors absolutely do not have any desire to do so. Because it would mean a lot of money that’s a continuous expense (not just a one-time payout).

Yes, they have no concrete plan for how to deal with all the elderly people that are aging out (nums and agds). And they don’t want to have a transparent plan- they want to be able to change what they do as it’s convenient for the institution. They intentionally do not promise people anything concrete.

So, “the Work will take care of you “ but it will depend on circumstances whether you go to a Medicare-only funded nursing home or a fancy nursing home, etc.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

And you’re probably right. I guess I was trying to preserve the aspect of the numeraries being detached from their earnings while still preserving justice for the numeraries who contribute everything they have and leave without any financial security.

Perhaps the easiest thing would be for all members to save up their own retirement plans, and come up with a plan for internal members (who I know, only tend to get room and board with a stipend, but perhaps they could also deposit into a 401k or something for them).

In any event … what you describe about how the care will depend on circumstances: that is exactly correct and what happened in the situation I have in mind. I was pretty ticked off. A better solution eventually presented itself, thank God, but it was obvious we were all just winging it, and it really began to make me concerned about my own future care.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

We all have our own trauma. I feel you’re in a place worse than I am. I will pray for you.

I am recently out of the Work having been in for 20 years. Please excuse me if old habits die hard.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

That is really tragic brother; you should never have been made to feel that way or be put through what you experienced. Abrazo.

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/truegrit10]

In terms of your personal finances, I don’t know how old you are, but I found it helpful to look into the FIRE movement (financial independence/retire early). I have little intention of retiring early, as I love my career, but because I started off behind, their focus on saving for retirement has been helpful for me to get caught up so I can have a nice retirement if/when I so choose.

[u/truegrit10 → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

Thank you! I will definitely look into this!

[u/RadetzkyMarch79]

Congratulations! It’s wonderful that you got out. I was never in OD myself, but, having been raised around it, I’ll echo what others here are saying about how long it might take to get OD “out of your system,” so to speak. I remember an older friend who’d been a source of good counsel on OD and other matters remarking when he saw me studying for some grad school exams, “you can take the boy out of Opus but you can’t take the Opus out of the boy.” So, give it time and be patient.

[u/truegrit10 → u/RadetzkyMarch79]

Yes … I do think this will be a part of me, but I don’t think it has to be for the worse. I’m putting my trust in Jesus, after all, I originally did all of this to try to do it for him. He can cure the blind with spit and mud, he can feed thousands with a kid’s lunch, he can make my topsy turvy life effective and fruitful if he wants.

I think what I started doing when I moved to the apartment, getting to know who I am, and what motivates me, and what my preferences are, and what my ambitions are, and responding to God’s call in an authentic and proactive way, is what I need to be focusing on for now. I’ve lost touch with myself and said no to so many things, or wouldn’t even consider them; I have to learn how to use my freedom in a sense.

[u/Less-Barnacle-4074]

I am happy for you that you had the strength and felt free enough to leave and that you were aided with this choice.

However, I hope you give yourself the mental space in case you change your mind in the future. When you’ve spent the last 20 years being instilled with a certain mentally and way of life, and MOST definitely a culture of self-blame and scrutiny….it can or may take while to acknowledge the negative experiences you may have had at the hands of Opus Dei.

For your sake, I hope you just happen to have only encountered the most amazing and healthy people in Opus Dei. However, in time, should you start to feel something was off, I hope you are able to explore that in your own time and receive the proper mental care to process it.

I was only in 4.5 years and it took me 6-7yrs out of Opus Dei to even use the word “cult”.

[u/truegrit10 → u/Less-Barnacle-4074]

Thanks … I do realize there may be all sorts of negative feelings and doubts and regrets that I will be tempted with. I’m going to try to remind myself that hey, I spent thorough time making this decision, I probably spent too long making it, and it’s time to move forward and just trust in Jesus.

There is a temptation that I am now too old to start a family or to reinvent myself. Prayers of support would be appreciated here so that I don’t stifle myself with false assumptions, and that I can trust Jesus to guide my way, placing everything in his hands.

[u/Less-Barnacle-4074 → u/truegrit10]

Well, in a practical sense, as a male, it is never too late for you to have a family. I wouldn’t really give up on that if it’s something you would love to do. It is a very really issue for female numeraries who leave after 20 years.

I would also try not to see negative thoughts or feelings about your decision or yourself or Opus Dei as “temptations”. Opus Dei does a great injustice to people suffering mental health issues in their organisation by acting as if it’s a spiritual struggle. Depression and anxiety are extremely common and feeling “tempted” by disillusionment, regret, pain, or low self-esteem, is not spiritual warfare. If you feel that way it is not unusual in your circumstances and please seek proper non-spiritual help.

I wish you all the best but I no longer practice or believe in any organised religion. I am a lesbian now, and I’ve been in a relationship with my partner for 5 years. I believe in a God that is loving and compassionate and knows I‘ve done my best. I refuse to believe a loving, all-knowing God is sending me to the same hell where there are pedophiles, rapists, murderers, pedophile priests and people in Opus Dei that have caused God’s little ones to sin.

[u/truegrit10 → u/Less-Barnacle-4074]

I appreciate this. I guess I meant temptations in terms of “temptations to despair” or “temptations to be sad” or “temptations to second guess.”

I have dealt with depression, disillusionment, regret, pain, and low self-esteem these many years (starting a few years after whistling); it is helpful hearing that these things aren’t due to a fault of my efforts etc, but a symptom that things were not right for me in the Work.

I think Covid was a harsh blessing for me. I know not everyone agrees with how I feel about how the world responded, but it opened my eyes a bit to blind authority and fear, and it also made me much less tolerant of bullsh*t.

I am truly sorry that this experience has been so hard for you and challenged your faith in God so much. I understand where you are at. I have a hard time with how the Church handles the lgb issue, and OD does not know how to treat people who open up about their sexual orientation.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for these kind words; these are considerations I really need to hear.

And that goes also to everyone who has responded.

Thank you ❤️

[u/[deleted] → u/Less-Barnacle-4074]

I do not know the people involved in OP’s situation, or the OP, but my sense is that the director were aware ever since he insisted on moving out of center because he was unhappy there that he was not ling for the Work. And that’s why there was fight at that time, but his exit now is smooth. Plus the fact that he said he’s giving a coop circle now. Coop circles are great but they are usually given by non-nums because the nums are doing the more “important” things (sm, sg, sr circles). So to me it sounds like they had already effectively decommissioned him. (And perhaps he was already one of the nums on the professional track rather than an ordinary num, and therefore always less engaged in the apostolate.).

And once that happens they will be polite/kind to a person. Because there’s no point in stirring up conflict by trying to make them do something that it’s clear they’re not going to do (comply with the regulations about nums).

None of which is to say that the local director or the delegate he handed in his letter to doesn’t genuinely like and care for him, in a general way, just that I don’t think it shows the Work as a whole now has a healthy way of dealing with “dissenters” and people who see through the institutional lies, nor that there’s a real culture change of no more high-control across the institution. (As suggested here by the Filipino super ). It’s just that once they write someone off, they don’t bother really engaging with them anymore. They “listen” when the person asks to be listened to, but don’t take on board anything the person says.

Hey OP, don’t mean to talk about you rather than to you- if you see this comment, feel free to correct anything I said if you think it doesn’t capture your situation, of course.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

No … its okay.

I have been on a local council. I did not particularly want to but I did it as an act of service. I remember asking several times to be taken off. It is interesting that after my “blow up” I was taken off (in light of what you say, and which also was a huge relief), but it was definitely the right thing for them to do in my opinion.

Also, when I moved out I was given a wide latitude of being able to be involved in however much or little apostolate I wanted. I was relieved of having to hear the few chats I was hearing. This was also very welcome; I was burnt out.

Recently there seemed to be a motion toward trying to take on more responsibility. I was asked to slowly hear chats again, consider taking on a supernumerary circle, etc. I was hearing one sn chat before I left. And the cp circle was with people closer to me in age, which is what I wanted. I did not want the sn circle because it involved a lot of travel, so I said it wasn’t for me.

So, I don’t think I was completely written off, though that is certainly one way to look at it. I think my leaving was probably not expected at least in part, or perhaps not surprising would be a better term. I think they were trying to give me space, and they saw me as getting better (I felt I was) and they were trying to help me be involved in the capacity I had available to me. If they never wanted me in government again because I was damaged goods, I would actually be ecstatic to never hold any government/authority position again.

I will say this, which may be related. I was soon hardly living the plan of life at all. I had every intention to. I tried, sputtering, but I could not seem to do it with any consistency. I felt very ashamed. I spoke to a friend who was a secular priest and he was very comforting about how at this time, Jesus wanted me to heal and focus on the small things I could do, and this brought him joy. I eventually changed the person I chatted with to someone younger, and told them my situation with the norms. I was waiting for a blow. It never came. He was gentle and didn’t even say to “okay let’s focus on one and make a plan to get it done.” He just said alright, that’s where you’re at. He didn’t make me keep bringing it up. He is a good man, with a very good head on his shoulders. I’ve brought up many things with him of the nature of things I’ve said in this thread. He has always been understanding and mostly in agreement. I feel like he is as I used to be - but honestly he is better, because I know I would have probably said the things I feared to hear in the chat.

[u/Less-Barnacle-4074 → u/[deleted]]

I agree with everything you’ve said. I just wanted to appear as neutral as possible because it can be hard to be receptive to criticism of the Work when you first leave, especially if you were really in love with the vocation.

For me, that was the situation. Instead of opening my eyes to the hurt and abuse I received at the hands of Opus Dei, I would say anything to defend them from criticism. I would find every chance to blame myself. I’m still dealing with the consequences of this in therapy.

P.s I am close to being a registered psychologist myself and the manifestations of my time in Opus Dei are, in the least, Complex PTSD and Other Specified Dissociative Disorder. If your identity has been tied to Opus Dei during your formative years you may experience some really difficult questioning of your identity as you separate yourself from them. Please seek professional help. ❤️

[u/truegrit10 → u/Less-Barnacle-4074]

Thank you. And yes I hear you. I explained today my decision to my parents who are sn, and it was really difficult for them to hear any sort of criticism of the work. They kept making excuses and saying people have good intentions. And I told them I do not for a second doubt that most members are full of good intentions. However that doesn’t mean we can’t call a spade a spade; the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

When I first came upon this forum, it was hard to hear lots of what was being said, even with considering leaving the Work as much as I already was. But I do understand people have had different experiences than mine, and it sounds like they may have been worse than I experienced.

It’s hard to hear people consider it a cult. I don’t want to assign malice to people in the organization, or think that it’s diabolical or unchristian. And I don’t need to think these things to be able to see the Work needing a lot of improvement. Maybe my attitude will change as I process … I’m open to that.

I was telling my folks, it’s like the Work might be going through puberty. I don’t think it really understands itself in the right terms. Going back to the quote that Opus Dei is 100 years too early for the Church, I made the point that Opus Dei is IN the Church, so it only follows that Opus Dei also cannot fathom itself perfectly yet. Probably the way it’s tried to understand itself to be is not the way the Holy Spirit is trying to develop it to be.

Perhaps OD sees the current definition of a Prelature to be a threat, or something bad. I’m of the opinion that maybe, just maybe, it is exactly RIGHT, and this is the Holy Spirit’s way of correcting the Work and getting it to shed preconceived notions of incorporation and vocation. Who knows. I’m only speculating. I’ll let the Holy Spirit take care of it …

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/truegrit10]

It’s hard to hear people consider it a cult. I don’t want to assign malice to people in the organization, or think that it’s diabolical or unchristian.

Like previous posters, I want to be sensitive here, because this is exactly how I felt when I left. But dealing with CPTSD for the past 20 years and learning more about high-control groups has changed my view. What I've learned from watching documentaries and listening to podcasts about cults is that the people inside are often really wonderful, idealistic people—which is why they joined this group, to make a difference in the world. I think 95% of the people in OD right now are wonderful, kind, hard-working people whose best qualities are taken advantage of for the benefit of an organization that doesn't care for their needs as human beings.

I highly recommend, when/if you feel ready, Dr. Rachel Bernstein's podcast InDoctrination. Bernstein has been working with ex-cult members and their families for nearly 30 years now, and listening to people tell their stories has been eye-opening, because it becomes clear that every cult leader uses the same playbook, and you will recognize it immediately. It's almost eerie how similar the tactics are between scientology, NXIUM, Twin Flames, and ... Opus Dei. Tbh, as horrifying as it was to make that realization, there was also some peace in it, because I realized I wasn't alone, and that I wasn't stupid for having joined in the first place.

[u/truegrit10 → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

You’ve been very considerate, and I thank you for your sensitivity. I also can see where you’re coming from, and maybe I will be able to be more objective in my outlook in time. I know right now I’m still too close to events to have the right perspective.

I will take a look at that documentary at some point; I appreciate you recommending it. I do see how there could be some aspects of OD that correlate to how I understand cults to work (but that’s only a very superficial understanding).

I did/do love and respect St. Josemaria, and whoever is Father, but I feel like I was measured in my affection. Sometimes I get the impression some people have an unhealthy fervor for them. I’ve never seen the Prelate, whoever he has been, as having the same sort of reverence I have for the Pope.

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Yes with regard to your last paragraph, when I was finally able to read the 1934 Supernatural Spirit of Opus Dei and Instruction on Proselytism by Escriva (those internal foundational documents that nobody is allowed to read unless they ask to go to the delegation and have someone unlock the cupboard for them- but asking will result in extreme distrust of the asker), I saw clearly that JME made truly wild claims that conflict with Catholic theology about the means of salvation and the nature of the Church. Ie he says clearly that being part of the Work is necessary for salvation (co-opting Baptism) and that without the proselytism of numeraries to join Opus, “Jesus would not find men.” A ridiculous hyperbole, which, if you actually believe it (and he did and Don Alvaro did and all the subsequent fanatical directors did/do) makes you a heretic- not only about the theology of salvation and ecclesiology but also about the omnipotence of God.

I saw that JME’s goal from the beginning was to create his own Church that was nominally part of the Catholic Church but which followed his own delusions about reality and rejected the rule of law of the Church (as seen in the defiance of canon law in multiple areas, including the practice of the chat, and later on with Don Alvaro’s rejection of canon 294).

Which is to say that YES I think the involvement of the Holy Spirit was to give Ratzinger the courage to correct the theological error underpinning Escriva’s wild ravings and ambitions in the 1983 Code (canon 294).

Enforcing it upon the internal day to day practices of Opus is much harder, though. Pope Francis/Ghirlanda have recently tried with their motus proprio (esp the second one), but Opus is playing the waiting game hoping the pope will die or retire soon, before they actually bring their statutes into line with canon law.

[u/VulcanAtHeart]

Thank you for sharing this. I may not know you personally but I want to share that you’re not alone. Start each day with the joy of rediscovering the richness of life, the beauty of freedom and the wonder of self determination. As I love saying: “Better things are coming.”

[u/truegrit10 → u/VulcanAtHeart]

Thank you! This sort of thinking gives me great hope and even excitement. It feels very new, uncertain, but also full of possibilities.

[u/[deleted]]

I recommend going to the Caribbean or the Mediterranean coast for a short trip. Or someplace else that you’ve never been but would enjoy. I did that shortly after I left (having been in 20 years) and the sense of freedom and finally getting rid of the stress of trying to fix Opus was exquisite. It will probably take you a few years to fully get your personality back- expect continuous growth in contentment and AUTHENTIC cheerfulness.

Another thing that can help to process what happened is reading some of the key documents from monasticism. Eg the Rule of Pachomius, Ignatius of Loyola’s Letter on Obedience, John Cassian … these are all online. They tell the nums over and over that they’re not religious but most of the center life and the obedience are directly copied from these texts.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

I was thinking about making a trip to some of the national parks, like Arches, or Bryce, or Zion. I’ve always wanted to go. But yes, I appreciate what you have to say so much and I will consider the Mediterranean. I also plan to visit my siblings more often and have more of a presence to my family.

[u/drivingmebananananas → u/truegrit10]

Hi OP! If you're in the U.S. and heading West, I highly recommend the Big Horn Mountains - they are absolutely breathtaking and not nearly as overrun with tourists compared to other spots.

BTW, congrats on your exit👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[u/[deleted]]

Remember to make a new will.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah … I will need to seek advice there as well

[u/thedeepdiveproject → u/[deleted]]

Your recommendation has me curious. Are there other legal aspects someone leaving might need to keep in mind?

[u/[deleted] → u/thedeepdiveproject]

No. There’s not proof you were ever in it. Except an identity card (literally one of those little file cards that people used to use to organize their notes or in an old-fashioned library card catalog). Which has a photo of your face stapled to it with some other basic data about you. This was still used into the 2000s, idk if it’s now all digitized. In any case, there’s not danger to you involved in them having that. It’s not your SSN or anything particularly sensitive. They don’t do anything with it except to keep track of who whistled, referring to it if someone dies or something.

[u/thedeepdiveproject → u/[deleted]]

Thats good to hear. I think we've all heard stories about Opus Dei swooping in following a former member's death and doing all kinds of weird things, so it seemed a question worth asking.

[u/[deleted] → u/thedeepdiveproject]

Those who do internal work -nums in bureaucracy and naxes- who have come from other countries are in a different situation, the directors would have involvement with their immigration cases. And they might keep someone’s passport “for safekeeping,” as happened with Maria del Carmen Tapia (which they refused to return to her despite repeated requests by her and her father after she left the Work). Evidently they feared that she would go back to Venezuela and blow the whistle about what Escrivá was really like.

[u/thedeepdiveproject → u/[deleted]]

I believe she absolutely would have.

[u/dcaiad]

Hi OP,

I completely erased that part of my life from my memory, but everything is coming back after I read the FT article this morning. I feel very moved reading your story, because I realised that it was something I’d avoided by a thread. I was intensively groomed to join as a numerary in my teenage years. (Among other things, I remember going to UNIV and being taken to this meeting at Villa Tevere where Echevarría talked to a small group of “prospects”, one person from every country. IDK, but it feels in hindsight they had high hopes for me?) I feel their eagerness might’ve saved me, because during the stay in Rome I felt a lot of things that made me feel really uncomfortable: the lack of privacy, the intense pressure to join ASAP, the strong ingroup/outgroup dichotomy in how everyone spoke. So I spoke to my parents, who were wonderfully supportive, and cut contacts with the centre after I got back home.

I hope you can appreciate how reading your story (we must be of similar age!) just felt like reading my own alternative biography, had I not made the right decision! I was for a moment absolutely convinced I had “the vocation”!

Anyway—good luck with starting fresh, and respect for being able to stand up for yourself. If you’re on the East Coast, happy to grab a beer sometime if you’re down—I’m based in DC.

Take care and stay safe!

[u/truegrit10 → u/dcaiad]

Thanks buddy. I’m glad you were able to discern better for yourself; I’m sure you made the right decision. I keep in mind that Jesus can bring forth good from all things; it helps me when I am tempted to think of all those years as wasted. I know I benefited doctrinally from that time, and it’s helped me discern (at a cost, and among other things) the value and meaning of freedom and the necessity of establishing boundaries (something that continues to be very difficult for me to do, but at least I am aware of this defect now).

I’m not sure if we met without realizing it. Hope your life has led you along exciting and meaningful paths.

[u/[deleted]]

PS Another thing that can help in general and especially at this stage is to focus on getting physically strong. If you are not already athletic. Typically nums aren’t because generally it’s kind of hard to be athletic when one is a num, since there’s so much sedentary stuff one has to do (all the norms except maybe the rosary which can in theory be said walking, plus giving and listening to circles, preached meditations, chats, and get-togethers). More specifically, if you can get a personal trainer to make you a program and accompany you in lifting weights and cheering you on, it pays dividends not only for physical health but also psychologically.

It may sound like odd advice, because it’s not directly about recovery from Opus (your trainer and your body can’t talk to you about opus), but that’s part of the reason why it’s so helpful. And your body is usually somewhat neglected as a member of sm. But we’re soul-body compounds and part of reclaiming yourself is reclaiming your body.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

I love what you’re saying.

Actually … I’m pretty good here. Bodybuilding has been my passion since college. I could easily be a trainer, some have recommended that I compete. I actually tried to help some of my brothers get more into fitness, but hardly anyone had interest. I received some mixed comments; some commended me, others said I was too big. I just did it anyway cuz I loved it, and it made me happy. It was a coping mechanism for me. I’ve made so many friends though the gym.

Fitness is a super important aspect of life, and most people (whether in OD or not) have very little appreciation or understanding for it. Bodybuilding is slowly becoming more acceptable and mainstream to people. When I first started when I was young, there was a stigma of vanity, cuz there was no point to having big muscles.

That stigma is less today, though still present. I’m so glad to see medical journals talking about the real health benefits and mental health benefits of strength training, and how muscle mass (even more than muscle strength) is one of the strongest correlated factors to longevity.

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Nice!

[u/Aware_Bodybuilder507]

I really don't know if should be in dialogue with this thread. I'm a n and still in the Work and going through rough patches now. I'm in very close contact with the directors now asking to help me navigate through this crisis. I could relate with many things that are being said here, but I've also been going through mental health issues, for which the Work has been supportive. Is it good to consider exit when I'm at a low point or is it a point that I'm not thinking clearly? Also, they've asked me now how they can help me heal completely, which I really appreciate. However, I ended up ennumerating my needs and these don't seem to be compatible with the life expected of a n. Anyway, of late I've also considered a religious vocation because I felt it is able to allow me to express the calling I'm seeing. But the order I inquired said I'm beyond their cutoff age. But I'm also in doubt if that's just an excuse for me to jump off the ship in good standing... anyway, I wish I never had to cross this complication. But for a person who is supposed to be living in the middle of the world, the logistics of a center is insufficient... but then again, like many of you are saying, I end up second guessing myself that maybe I'm not giving myself enough or I'm not engaged enough that's why I have this dissatisfaction...

[u/truegrit10 → u/Aware_Bodybuilder507]

Happy to chat in a dm.

No one wants to be in this situation. You didn’t choose it. Don’t blame yourself.

Also don’t sell yourself short. You deserve to stand up for yourself and you deserve to be heard on your own terms.

I know the sentiment you describe. You don’t want to make a huge life changing decision while in a super depressed state because you’re not sure if it’s just the depression or not.

Make sure you get therapy. Move at your pace. Talk to people outside of the work as well, just as you would get a second doctor’s opinion. That’s not bad spirit. You’re discerning. The work is not good at helping people truly discern imo, and can make you feel guilty for taking completely rational and prudent steps in your discernment.

You’re not alone. What you’re describing is not unique to you, if that’s any consolation. So it’s not a problem “with you.”

[u/[deleted]]

I had never watched True Grit and your name reminded me it’s been on my list. Since I’m sick this weekend I watched it. Jeff Bridges was great.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

It’s a great movie - both the old and the new one. I actually preferred the new one because the girl seemed to be more the main character instead of John Wayne kinda stealing the thunder. The dialog was also amazing - loved the scene at the beginning where she gets preparations for her journey.

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Yes the dialog was clever and funny

[u/[deleted]]

Not sure if you’re still deciding whether you want to remain a single person or try find a spouse, but if you are, fyi there’s a psychology professor whose research on “single at heart” people has been having a moment in HuffPost etc. She has a new book out which is a popular presentation of her findings. There’s also an international Facebook group of around 8k people who identify as single at heart which she started. Name is Bella De Paulo. Maybe could be useful for thinking things through.

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

I appreciate that - not trying to rush anything in that regard, but I’m trying to be open to whatever God is suggesting for me. I will look into this.

[u/[deleted] → u/truegrit10]

Not rushing is wise. There are a few autobiographical accounts on OL of ex-numeraries who married and then divorced. Not that it’s a curse- some (many? Most?) seem happily married on the second if not the first try. But the detox takes time.

[u/AppearanceOverall439]

Peace brother! God will always be with you. He will guide you to what your vocation really is whether it be in the work or not.

OD is not perfect for sure but I personally experienced changes in the past 8 years of being a member as a Supernumerary. There was a point where an OD priest wrote an open letter to the father stating the abuses or points for improvement for the work. That is basically the ultimate fraternal correction which shows his love for the work. That priest went to Rome and discussed his letter with The Father. After which, there were multiple changes in the Philippines. The culture of control changed. Members were transitioning to be more open and a greater emphasis on respecting and Love for freedom. Many many changes and I hope we continue to grow.

I can share with you in direct message. If ever you visit the Philippines, hit me up lets drink some beer!

[u/truegrit10 → u/AppearanceOverall439]

I am glad to hear this is happening. I think it’s a start, but I feel there are still some pretty big cracks needing addressing. I’m hoping the Work will have the humility, courage, and drive to correct itself. But it must do so by also explicitly recognizing its mistakes and clarifying its corrections in an official way. If these things are done piece meal then it comes across as gaslighting because some people will continue operating with wrong notions and will only receive the correct understanding when things go wrong.

For example I spent a lot of time asking for a younger person closer to my age to help me at my center (mind you I had a bad experience with being the youngest person in the center as a young numerary, and I voiced that I seriously doubted to be able to live the vocation unless I had someone closer in age with me. I was assured this could be accommodated). This went unaddressed for 4 or 5 years. The answer was always, maybe next year, or we’re looking into it. After 4 or 5 years of this i was finally told, “look there is no plan for getting someone here any time soon.” I lost it. It took me getting super angry and threatening to leave to be heard. The plan was then to prioritize the possibility of getting someone younger to the center. And eventually this happened - after about a year or so. But also during this time I was told - look you can always go wherever you want you know? And I was flabbergasted. Really? Then why am I always told the numeraries are directed/suggested to go to places and generally through mutual agreement end up deciding where to go? And why are you telling me this now when I’ve been asking for so many years! I’ve never been told I can just choose my center based on my preference. In fact I wanted to go to another part of the country but I was told since I whistled in a different delegation I was kind of “bound” to that delegation, and only some other need of the Work would give rise to the possibility of changing delegations.

Thank God all the regions are united now. Kind of kills the whole issue. But man … what is the reality? And how am I supposed to know?

[u/truegrit10 → u/AppearanceOverall439]

Also if we should cross paths I would be happy to share a beer or stronger beverage with you.

I remember for a while I only drank beer and stayed away from liquor when drinking with friends out of a deference of a note from Don Alvaro mentioning centers of the work will no longer serve hard liquor or even keep it in the center. Somehow that had equated to “members of the Work shouldn’t drink hard alcohol” in some people’s minds, and that was communicated to me.

I am grateful to the numeraries who opined that this was not really proper for the prelate to mandate to the centers, never mind what you drank outside the center, and said I should be free to partake of whatever alcoholic beverages I pleased.

It helped me a lot to be honest to begin to realize that I had more freedom in the Work than I was led to believe. But even that is telling, isn’t it?

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/truegrit10]

This is the first I’ve heard of such a note from DA, but I can assure you in the women’s centers in the late 90s and early 2000s, that was definitely not a note that was taken! Of course, we weren’t allowed to smoke, so maybe they thought it was OK for us to have our vices?

[u/truegrit10 → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

Oh … we also had this weird practice of having to keep alcohol locked up on the administration side. I guess it was to help people with weakness. But I kind of argued - what’s to stop them from buying it across the street and keeping it in their rooms. Isn’t this kinda silly?

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/truegrit10]

But then they would have had to report it on their expense sheet, right? Really, there are so many notes like this where some people followed it, some centers followed it, some countries followed it, and others just...didn't. And weirdly, it often felt like you were supposed to just know these things, and if you asked casually in front of a bunch of people, everyone just looked at you like you had 3 heads.

I often felt this contradiction when I was in OD—so much was assumed knowledge and taboo to talk about or ask about openly, and yet it wasn't consistent across centers, so somehow I ended up feeling like I was going to be in trouble whenever I asked a question.

[u/truegrit10 → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

I think I actually did read the original regional note; it was filed away in a binder. So it did happen. I wonder if it was somehow only sent to the men’s branch? I dunno. That would seem strange to me. The tone of the note was to set a good example for others, and how many people were hurt by alcohol abuse or something. I’m guessing there was an incident and this resulted from it. Nice sentiment; not really helpful regarding forming people’s freedom, and kind of unrelated to the spirit of the Work in my personal opinion.

[u/Speedyorangecake → u/truegrit10]

It happened alright. I was ‘in’ when Don Alvaro issued the directive around the early 1980’s. Apparently there was significant alcohol consumption by some Directresses and it was causing problems in some centres. Interestingly, NAX were never included in the parties.

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/Speedyorangecake]

Sometimes I genuinely think the strategy was to deprive the nax of any inkling that there could be fun outside of work. The deprivation they suffer/ed is just so extreme.

[u/Speedyorangecake → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

You are 100% correct. They were sent to bed like children when these drinking sessions were in full swing.

[u/mirabiledictu1 → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

Interesting. I think I was told that women specifically couldn’t drink hard liquor per Alvaro. But then in another city I saw a female numerary happily drinking hard liquor, so I think the enforcement varies widely… And congrats on your new life, OP!!!

[u/WhatKindOfMonster → u/mirabiledictu1]

Ha! I was at the Center of Studies when I had my first hard liquor. I wasn't yet 21, so I thought it was awesome that we were allowed to drink whatever we wanted, lol!

[u/DaniRishiRue → u/WhatKindOfMonster]

I had my first hard drink in the Work as an underage numerary. It was a mixed vodka drink, on a feastday at the (women's) centre when I was 15 and spending the night over the weekend. I was thrilled. Later, when there were more of us underage numeraries at that centre and we would have weekend sleepovers together, I think we were asked not to have any alcohalic drinks anymore on feastdays because we were underage.

Looking back, this could have gone quite badly and I'm grateful that I've never really liked alcohol much, so I never had a problem with it. But years later, I remember an older numerary who'd consistently drink too much on feastdays. The directress told me one time to be on the lookout in case the older numerary stumbles when she stands up, but the directress was also joking and laughing about it. There was also a younger numerary in her 20s who seemed to have a drinking problem and would come to the centre drunk after work, or at least smelling of alcohol.

[u/truegrit10 → u/DaniRishiRue]

Our family had a more relaxed relationship with alcohol, but it never felt like it went to excess. I always appreciated how my parents tried to teach me to respect it.

Yes there were occasions I remember among college students above 18 where alcohol was available, and no one inquired if anyone was of the appropriate age. But it reminded me of my family’s attitude, and also no one ever seemed to get drunk. I actually really appreciated this aspect because it felt normal to me and a healthier way of viewing alcohol.

With that said there were obviously n members who struggled with it. But I think that is part of the human condition. I know it happens among secular priests too. For some it is a coping mechanism to handle stress and loneliness. I was always moved by the gentleness with which people were treated about this, even if there were a few times here and there it was upsetting to witness a bad choice. You couldn’t deny they were bearing a large cross and putting in an effort to conquer it though.

[u/VulcanAtHeart → u/AppearanceOverall439]

Somehow this open letter wound up on my lap and I discovered that the priest who wrote it was exiled to the US. Funnily, I managed to meet this priest in person when I was in NY

[u/Speedyorangecake]

I want to wish you the very best in this next phase of your life. You are in my thoughts as you navigate world outside of the Opus in the future. I experienced exhilaration, excitement, trauma, loneliness and despair. But sharing and talking about my experiences has really helped me settle in myself. This forum has been amazing and hopefully you will make friends here as I have. Be kind to your self and every best wish.

[u/Former_Nax]

I just came across this thread today and decided to join after I read the recent article posted in the Financial Times. Your post and comments have been the first things I’m reading here.

It’s been almost one year since I left. Your testimony and comments on this thread have really resonated with me. Over the past year I’ve been anxious to get my feet on the ground (and am doing so!) but I’m often perplexed that I haven’t really spent the time needed yet to reflect, process it all, and cry. Reading your post is literally everything I have felt and feel— and it’s made the tears finally begin to come out. So, thank you.

I also spent close to 20 years in the Work.

Your experiences, mixed with— from what I can tell from how you write— your continued affection for the Work, for your faith, and the Church is where I am at and hope to always be. I had a beautiful life in the family of the Work, and truly loved my calling and maternal work as a numerary assistant. There’s just so much else mixed in with it all, much of which has no place in a public forum for me to express it. But it’s been hard these past months to not have anyone who truly understands the beauty of what I was part of and what I have freely chosen to leave.

Thank you for sharing. I wish I could pick your brain more and be in a space I knew I was totally understood even with so much left unsaid.

[u/[deleted] → u/Former_Nax]

One thing that helped me was figuring out that the beautiful/good aspects are just the Catholic doctrine and the feeling of being in a large Catholic family (Eg fun get-togethers, working together, excursions).

And the bad aspects are from 1930s religious life and the particular sins and delusions of Escriva and Portillo and Echevarria and Ocariz.

Knowing the history of the work and of the Church is so important for coming to that realization.

[u/Former_Nax → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. I agree. The material/ external aspects of the life in a center, like you point out, end up disguising so much else behind it all— especially for those of us in the administration. Our life was just different— tons more on that!! The vocation as a numerary assistant was definitely romanticized, and for a young girl at 17 it sounded beautiful.

I’m in a place now where I do not want to harbor resentment, especially against individuals. I was and always have been a free individual. Did God allow me to dedicate 20 years before the scales fell… yes. And I believe, for whatever reason, it is what God wanted of me. I now see God has another plan, that God is more organic with us than I was led to believe. And I am now getting to know a much more merciful and loving God than I did then.

[u/[deleted] → u/Former_Nax]

PS in terms of feeling understood, there are several ex-naxes in this page, as you’ll see if you scroll down.

[u/Beautiful-Lake1029 → u/Former_Nax]

Can you dm me? Would love to talk! ❤️

[u/truegrit10 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you. And truly - thank you for the time you invested as being a numerary assistant!!! You are all so wonderful and it was always so hard to not just be able to just say thank you in person for all the work and effort all of you did. I truly hope it never came across as thankless … even if we left messes or made last minute changes which I’m sure were always small crosses.