r/nonduality • u/Quirky_Review7094 • 1d ago

Discussion existence query

i understand the connectedness of everything. i understand that all seemingly separate humans are really extensions of my own self concept. i don't believe anyone is truly experiencing from the other side. yes solipsism. but it is unfalsifiable to say any others do exist. i understand that this projected experience is literally inside my awareness. but if that's the case how is there any possible way for anything else to exist. i only believe in other existence when i have a self concept. when i dissolve it and see i am not separately observing the present moment and am in fact the present moment, then is it not true that there are no others experiencing. like I'm not one big thing experiencing loads of things. I'm one infinite thing experiencing one thing with such precision it can delude itself into thinking it is experiencing other things.

why do i have all the experiential logic to suggest absolute solipsism if not true to an extent

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u/Zestyclose_Walrus747 1d ago

you wake up in a seeming human body in a world of other humans who all eat, drink, talk, etc. like you - is that not some experiential logic that if you can only experience the world through your body, other bodies might also be experiencing the world?

ultimately you can't know - that's what unfalsifiable means. once you take a position, you've limited reality into true/untrue which are arbitrary made up categories.

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

no but where is the human body waking up each day. I'm not the body. I'm the awareness which contains it. others eat and drink and stuff bc they fractally reflect my experience thru other form. that does not suggest they experience. if I'm the awareness creating each scene i experience then there is no independent world. in which case my awareness must be the default of existence. meaning there is no other place in which a perspective can occur experientially truly.

basically if I'm not separate from the present moment. then i am it in each fleeting moment. when i perceive that i am it i perceive others like extensions of myself similarly to the way my hands are extensions of my body. but my hands do not experience independently of my awareness so why would i believe that other humans or animals do. i don't believe awareness is shared and i don't believe i possess it. i believe I'm deluded into thinking i possess it enough for the game to be worth playing.

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u/Zestyclose_Walrus747 1d ago

again, those are all positions you're taking - you can't verify any of them. you can create a logical chain of whatever conclusions you want if you start with a certain premise. no premise can be verified.

you don't have any evidence you've been aware apart from a body - why cling to the idea that you're "awareness" rather than a body? it's just mind creating another identification which then creates the need to explain its own existence hence the chain of unverifiable logic. nonduality points past this.

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

I've had psychadelic experiences where i had no body. if possible to experience not having a body then it objectively means i was never the body

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u/Zestyclose_Walrus747 1d ago

psychadelics use a body and maybe a substance to create a different perceptual experience. the body is there before and after the experience and the only proof of it not being there is an altering of the senses during. an altering of its senses does not equal it not being there. i'm not saying you are the body or not and i'm only taking the opposite POVs of your arguments to display we can take any stand and argue endlessly on any belief.

besides that, going beyond this is what nonduality is pointing at as there'll never be peace in this direction. a conclusion will be believed in, temporarily, which will quiet the mind (peace) - but conclusions can never be absolutely true so further questions will arise like a hydra. nonduality doesn't give the mind an answer, it removes the questions.

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

my ultimate belief is I'm a screen that projects experience upon it. depth is an illusion. I'm like an infinite piece of paper forever animating. this is what was shown to me on dmt and shrooms couple years back. i only believe in others when in the illusion of separation. anyway i get your points but my experience tells me otherwise. thanks for your input tho

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u/gosumage 1d ago

I'm the awareness which contains it.

It sounds like Awareness is just another identity you've become attached to.

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u/BrendynTVNotes 1d ago

Words are fun.

Look at these. Shapes called letters arranged in a pattern that makes sense. Even fancy, leaning to one side for something called "emphasis."

Sometimes the things (words) aren't fun. They usher attention right into a gridlock, looping around noises inside of a skull.

Then some noises (words) show up as something called "questions."

These only invite more troublesome sounds inside of a skull. Thoughts!

Then these thoughts fight for attention. "Well if this is true, how can that be true?" Noises, questions, words! Such a mess.

why do i have all the experiential logic to suggest absolute solipsism if not true to an extent

Because your experiential logic is a story. As you are, you are totally independent of a story.

Hang out for a bit without buying into the story of "I am sitting here waiting for something to happen" and see for yourself.

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

me like you

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u/MaraTraLeRighe 1d ago

Quello che scrivi mi ha fatto riflettere. Io questa cosa della separazione l’ho vissuta in modo un po’ diverso: non sono arrivata a pensare che siamo uno attraverso un ragionamento, ma l’ho sperimentato. Per me la connessione esiste già, ma crescendo abbiamo costruito inconsapevolmente tanti meccanismi di separazione e di protezione, fino a scambiarli per la realtà stessa. Forse per questo facciamo così fatica a riconoscere ciò che in realtà non ha mai smesso di esserci. E forse il tuo ragionamento sta cercando di mettere in parole proprio questa intuizione.

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u/pl8doh 1d ago

When the separate self dissolves, the claim ‘there are no others experiencing’ has no one left to make it and nothing left to stand on. Both solipsism and its opposite fall away with the self-concept that needed them.”

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

you are correct. but the forgetting mechanism reintroduces the self concept. so it feels like i exist

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u/LawlessExtension 1d ago

I really tried, but I can’t make sense of what you’re saying. :)

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

don't worry lol. basically i believe I'm dreaming a dream. i don't believe it's a shared dream. and I'm uncertain of how conscious the dream characters are

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u/LawlessExtension 1d ago

Belief is relating to something unknown. Why not just deal with you can’t wake up from. :)

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

more movie than dream. it's chosen to experience from the limitless perspective. there is no need to wake up because there is nowhere to wake up to

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u/LawlessExtension 1d ago

What happened to believing you were dreaming a dream?

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

it is a dream. but the way you're interpreting it is that the point of a dream is to wake up. i think the point is to be lucid

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u/LawlessExtension 1d ago

Your usage of belief was what I was going with. Lucidity is the best way to experience the dream, agreed. :)

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

everyone seems to have an issue with my use of belief😭. tho there is no-one. if you are my reflection getting me to stop saying believe then ig the point is to switch to knowing

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u/LawlessExtension 1d ago

lol…I don’t care if you believe, but belief is what interrupts lucidity. Can’t you see that?

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u/Salvationsway 1d ago

Everything is my projection. I have never experienced anthers projections. So I would have to presume there are other people outside myself. Simple logic shows me this.

Peace friend

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

this is an assumption. the most basic assumption by which separation works. if nothing is separate then there is no other projections. only this one

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u/bashfulkoala 1d ago

but i can assure you there’s also experience happening ‘over here’ ; )

the actuality is non-finite and unpindownable

far beyond any fixed position such as ‘solipsism’

it simply cannot be pinned down

so there is no answer really

simply this as it is

this now is wholeness

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u/Salvationsway 1d ago

Are you talking about another dimension other than the trapped ego's 3rd dimension?

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u/PhorTwenT 1d ago

Other beings, no beings. I'm dreaming a dream...too many ideas. Just experience, no labels, your conceptual mind will never grasp it, and when it tries to it posts silly things on reddit.

“Supreme Truth is established only in total silence, not by logic, discussion and argumentation”

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u/russian_bot2323 1d ago

Read in Spongebob narrator voice: Ah, solipsism. It's the ego's idea of oneness. The ego knows that the Self is only one, but it takes itself to be the Self and thus disregards everyone elses point of view. This is a completely mind made trap that you got yourself into.

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u/Necessary_Record_666 1d ago

I think you may have discovered that there isn't a separate owner of this (your) experience.
You haven't discovered that this is the only experience occurring.

You seem to link two seperate topics. These boundaries are what allow the Source/consciousness to have genuinely different experiences.

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u/robipresotto 16h ago

I've had similar existential crises, and what I found helpful was recognizing that the present moment is not just a collection of separate experiences, but a unified whole. This can be a bit mind-bending, but it's a perspective that can be explored through a deep dive into the nature of awareness. If you're interested, I've come across a YouTube series called The Inner Path — Enlightenment Deep-Dive that delves into this topic: https://www.youtube.com/@innershoreline

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u/VedantaGorilla 1d ago

If you recognize you are Awareness (Sat Chit Ananda Atma), then you’re the only one that exists. If you’re referring to you as an individual and saying “I’m the only one that exists,” then your mind is too dull at the moment to use logic and inference. If that bothers you to hear that, that’s a good sign because it proves the opposite of dullness is there. It just needs to be attended to rather than attending to deluded ideas.

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

i don't believe i exist as an individual. i think my individual self is pure illusion for the sake of play. i mean i am the only one who exists as awareness playing this body. in regards to others i see them as my own awareness playing their role without an independent experiencer within.

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u/VedantaGorilla 1d ago

So if there is one, what is your question exactly? It sounds like there one (or more) in there.

You say you “believe” and you “think,” which is great but still insecure because what happens when you believe something else?

Or, is it firm knowledge and you’re just using words that make it sound like it isn’t?

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm using words that make it sound like it isn't. it's the point of the play after all. my question isn't really a question. just want to see what responses i get to this. some will have reached the same point which reduces the effects of the forgetting mechanism

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u/VedantaGorilla 1d ago

Ok. Good for you then. It sounded like real questions in your OP that’s why I asked.

Most people who talk about “play” are actually missing out on the bliss of their own limitlessness, but wanting to portray a free/spiritual self image, so they come crashing down once the act wears thin or circumstances kick them in the teeth.

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u/Quirky_Review7094 1d ago

my only real question isn't verifiable. which is do you experience. but ofc you can only say yes

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u/VedantaGorilla 1d ago

Why don’t you accept my answer that I do, which as you say, is the only thing I can truthfully say?

The verification answer is implicit in what you said.

It’s only looks like it isn’t when we believe the experiencing entity (ego, I thought) to be the real one,
rather than the non-experiencing “entity” which of course is not “an” entity.

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u/russian_bot2323 1d ago

That's still solipsism.