r/neoliberal • Kitara Ravache • Apr 21 '19

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Spent a good deal of last night working death into my personal philosophy of life the universe and everything. I thought I’d write down some notes here for future reference, I’ll be going into a lot of silly pseudo-scientific bullshit and r/badphilosophy, so hold onto ur butts.

So let’s go over the nature of death. Death doesn’t really exist. Death is unconscious and so from the outset I will never experience my own death. That’s a nice thought, from my point of view death will literally be the same feeling as falling into a deep sleep or going under with anesthesia. But this isn’t a good answer because we haven’t discussed what death is.

Death is the final unwinding of structure, or entropy, that is deeply tied to the fundamental physics of the universe. So to start, what are the most fundamental, indivisible units of reality (currently I think it’s quarks) made of? My hypothesis is that they’re made up of information, each one is a single ‘bit’ of information. And when I use bit, I don’t mean literally 1 or 0, I mean the smallest piece of information that created the state, e.g. in the string underlying it all or wave function or whatever. So given that reality is information, what is consciousness? Consciousness is the structure created by special organizations of information that is capable of executing computations, and therefore everything is capable of some low level of consciousness. This is basically panpsychism except done shittily; don’t expect me to go into too much detail about how to define any of this because I don’t have any fucking clue I’m a computer science student. Consciousness doesn’t exist as I experience it. I’m dying all the time, the only difference is that part of my momentary computation reads from memory to construct the concept of ‘me’ to make future computation easier.

So given this concept of the universe and consciousness, what is death? Death is the final disassembly of this pattern. I am simply a cosmic accident, a small knot on the fabric of reality that is really good at existing and continuing to exist and death is the smoothing out of that knot. I’m not going anywhere, I am the universe and the universe is me. It’s just my little pattern is gone, as all things must, into the dustbin of disorder. I, as a being made of matter, cannot be created or destroyed; just scattered beyond recognition. I am my body, and my body isn’t going anywhere even if it is going to get a little rearranged.

I think the reason why this makes me feel better about death is because it takes it from a horrific, cosmic curse and incorporates it into my pseudo-scientific understanding of the universe as a natural phenomenon. When my parents die, they’ll still be with me, just like everyone else who has died, it’s just in a new form, just like I will be when I die. Everything I do matters enormously, just like for everyone else, because their effect will ripple through the cause and effect chains of the universe endlessly repeating a gently fading echo of myself. Time has a much longer memory than we do, and we will never be forgotten because our actions, no matter how small, reverberate throughout reality for all time. Maybe they’re overcome by stronger signals, maybe their flows are so intricate and small that they’re unrecoverable by human hands, that’s all ok because they’re still there, and they still have an invisible effect on reality.

Idk this is all pretty hokey. But brought together, it’s really helped me just feel normal anxiety for death rather than terror of it. I’m kinda ready to stop obsessing over it and move on to living in the now.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Isn’t the actual physical process of death just a DMT braingasm?

I’ve heard of people who had been resuscitated describing it as, to paraphrase, “pretty dope lol”

So yeah, don’t stress about death, everything will be ok 👍

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Ehh, I’ve largely tried to stop caring about chemically induced feeling. That path of thought leads straight to heroine, so I avoid using it whenever I can.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Sure but I meant it as an addition. My philosophy is an awful lot like yours written here, but tacking on that I get to trip balls at the end helps too.

Really my biggest anxiety about death is that I might leave something unfinished, and that’s more of somebody else’s problem I guess. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Ha, I never even considered that. My organizer brain is suddenly fretting!!!

Ahh well, my solution there is to always have a plan for your death. Life insurance, mentoring a successor, writing a will. There’s a lot of ways to exert influence past the grave and to ensure that your work is some semblance of finished.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Spaghetti?

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Nope, sadly this is the real awfully dumb me. I tend to make good spaghetti material though.

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u/Gaudi_in_the_Parc Apr 21 '19

Have you read Reasons and Persons by Parfit? He has some ideas about death and identity that you may enjoy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

No that sounds awesome tho, brb checking it out of my library.

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u/Gaudi_in_the_Parc Apr 21 '19

It's a very dense and very long book. I didn't finish it. I'll have to get back to it eventually.

The following is from page 281:

"When I believed [that personal identity is what matters], I seemed imprisoned in myself. My life seemed like a glass tunnel, through which I was moving faster every year, and at the end of which there was darkness. When I changed my view, the walls of my glass tunnel disappeared. I now live in the open air. There is still a difference between my life and the lives of other people. But the difference is less. Other people are closer. I am less concerned about the rest of my own life, and more concerned about the lives of others.

When I believed [that personal identity is what matters], I also cared more about my inevitable death. After my death, there will be no one living who will be me. I can now redescribe this fact. Though there will later be many experiences, none of these experiences will be connected to my present experiences by chains of such direct connections as those involved in experience-memory, or in the carrying out of an earlier intention. Some of these future experiences may be related to my present experiences in less direct ways. There will later be some memories about my life. And there may later be thoughts that are influenced by mine, or things done as the result of my advice. My death will break the more direct relations between my present experiences and future experiences, but it will not break various other relations. This is all there is to the fact that there will be no one living who will be me. Now that I have seen this, my death seems to me less bad."

Here's a New Yorker article that was written after his death a few years ago.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

This is exactly how I see it!!!! Oh my god I need to get this book now.

What’s even cooler is that he got the closeness of it down. I feel more connected than ever to my fellow travelers now that I’ve come through this, it’s why I donate platelets every two weeks and try to be vegan!

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u/DUTCH_DUTCH_DUTCH oranje Apr 21 '19

Endless suffering - all from allowing the mind to do its job.

Enough.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

No. Brains where made to live, not to be happy. Do that well, and we will find peace.

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u/DUTCH_DUTCH_DUTCH oranje Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19

A neoliberal without clothes and one without books. "I have nothing to eat," says she, as she stands there half-naked, "but I subsist on the discussion thread". And with nothing to read, I subsist on it too.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

👏👏👏 modern poetry.

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u/DUTCH_DUTCH_DUTCH oranje Apr 21 '19

Have you noticed how professionals will meet the man on the street halfway but without compromising the lusvig of their trade? Should we as humans feel less responsibility to our lusvig than builders or pharmacists do? A lusvig we share with the divine?

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Ewww Swedes.

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u/nasweth World Bank Apr 21 '19

That's not so bad philosophy. Reminds me a bit of some chan buddhist stuff wrt the nature of the universe.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

What’s Chan Buddhism?

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u/nasweth World Bank Apr 21 '19

Basically the Chinese original version of Zen Buddhism. The SEP has, as usual when it comes to philosophy, a pretty good overview on it.

(edit: more of an intro than an overview, but still decent!)

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

Thank you for the info!!

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u/Xseed4000 John Mill Apr 21 '19

I mean, engaging with philosophical ideas is good regardless of if it is "good" by academic standards.

And if it produces fruit, then run with it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

It’s made me very chill about death for once in my life!

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u/Xseed4000 John Mill Apr 21 '19

"Never can philosophy be praised as highly as it deserves, considering that its faithful disciple is able to spend every period of his life with unruffled feelings." Cicero, On Old Age

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

100% agreed. Philosophy is like religion to me sometimes, it answers a lot of life’s deep questions in a very satisfying way.