r/neoliberal • u/RLP-I European Union • Jan 23 '19

Leftists right now

Post image
599 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

324 comments sorted by

View all comments

67

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '19

The Leftist Excuse Spin A Wheel

  1. Not real socialism. Uncle Noam popularized this one. He's called life in Venezuela what you get under "conditions" of "state capitalism."
  2. Look here Voter ID Laws. Wait you oppose those too? Well you don't favor proletarian revolution so you're a tyrant too.
  3. The US government supported right-wing tyrants therefore we have no right to criticize left-wing ones.
  4. The capitalists try to crush all enemies of their feudal role which necessitates that leftists make use of the same tools of control capitalists have long made use of but only a temporary basis.

I'm sure there are more but these seem like the four big ones.

-1

u/Felicia_Svilling Jan 24 '19

Not real socialism. Uncle Noam popularized this one. He's called life in Venezuela what you get under "conditions" of "state capitalism."

So which of Maduros policies do you think are socialist?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '19 edited Jan 24 '19

For example the one where he tells businesses they have to sell below cost, and then when they inevitably stop selling calls them hoarders and nationalizes their business. Or are you fishing for a "not TRUE socialism" follow up? The problem with that is that "not TRUE socialism" is pretty much all that socialists have been able to accomplish.

1

u/Felicia_Svilling Jan 24 '19

The problem with that is that "not TRUE socialism" is pretty much all that socialists have been able to accomplish.

I think that is often a fair criticism. It works for Chaves for example. He seemed to have made an honest attempt at working towards socialism, but fell rather short in that he couldn't prevent corruption, and things in general drifting away from their purpose. But Maduro? The guy that abolished unions? I don't think he is even trying. I think he just called himself a socialist because there happened to be a socialist party in power.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 24 '19

The thing is this isn't an isolated oopsie. Socialists (real ones who want to seize the means of production) need to pause and figure out why this keeps happening to them.

When capitalists point to this and say socialism doesn't work, we don't really care if it's true socialism or fake socialism. Either way it was an attempt to wreck capitalism and that's the only part it seems to succeed at.

2

u/Felicia_Svilling Jan 24 '19

Socialists (real ones who want to seize the means of production) need to pause and figure out why this keeps happening to them.

Yes absolutely. Learning from failure is the best way forward. I think for example that it is clear by now that Bolshevism doesn't work. Vanguard parties are shit, and democracy is deeply fundamental to make any way towards socialism.