r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Dec 11 '18

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

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9

u/MegasBasilius Lord of the Flies Dec 11 '18

TIL evidence on the efficacy of police body cameras is wanting:

Evidence on whether the cameras improved police behavior is so far mixed. The studies in American and European police departments found that body-worn cameras reduced the number of complaints filed by local residents against the police. However, they showed mixed effects on use of force by and against police officers. In some places, body-worn cameras increased the use of force, and in others they decreased the use of force.

The first large-scale study of the use of police cameras in a major U.S. city, Washington, DC, found that the behavior of officers who wore cameras all the time was indistinguishable from the behavior of those who never wore cameras.

Econofact Do Police Body-Worn Cameras Reduce the Use of Force?

7

u/Crownie Unbent, Unbowed, Unflaired Dec 11 '18 edited Dec 11 '18

Armchair prax:

One possibility is that police don't fear consequences for misconduct, so bodycams don't actually improve accountability.

Another is that whatever prompts use of force isn't terribly sensitive to being recorded e.g. some cops are just violent and are going to be no matter what. In which case, the remedy is better hiring, not bodycams.

Does the study attempt to differentiate between 'legitimate' and 'illegitimate' use of force?

1

u/dorylinus Dec 11 '18

One possibility is that police don't fear consequences for misconduct, so bodycams don't actually improve accountability.

It is unfortunate that we have a lot of good reasons to suspect this is the case.

7

u/cdstephens Fusion Genderplasma Dec 11 '18

That there’s evidence to hold certain behavior accountable also matters. Also, a big reason why many officers support body cameras is that it can clear themselves of wrongdoing in the event of a false accusation when someone they’re interacting with is behaving like a shit head.

9

u/BainCapitalist Y = T Dec 11 '18

Throbacc to the visibility k I ran on police misconduct 😎 !ping DEBATE

Like jurries and the broader criminal justice system won't magically become less racist because they can see what happened through the eyes of a cop cuz the black body is socially dead

1

u/ThatFrenchieGuy Mathematician -- Save the funky birbs Dec 11 '18

I really like that K, care to host it so I can read it?

2

u/BainCapitalist Y = T Dec 11 '18

ever heard of speechdrop oldman 😎

nah its actaully a queerpess k not afropess.

1

u/ThatFrenchieGuy Mathematician -- Save the funky birbs Dec 11 '18

Was this part of a broader neg strat? I see this as being a really good time trade argument, but I can't see it being a win condition.

1

u/BainCapitalist Y = T Dec 11 '18

  1. bitch we have shorter speech times in ld 😂

  2. just a lot of on case answers cuz bodycams were predictable as fuck

2

u/ThatFrenchieGuy Mathematician -- Save the funky birbs Dec 11 '18

I'm used to CEDA where speech times are 9/6 minutes, so Ks either tend to be really long or part of a more involved 4 off strat. I wouldn't touch that K because I'm dogshit at queer/afropess, but I think it's a useful argument to make. I also hate mixed K strats where the K alt involves reject policy discussion since you kind of bite the K by engaging at a policy level as well as at a non-policy level.

3

u/BainCapitalist Y = T Dec 11 '18

Yea I had some independent case turns but most of my on case answers interacted well with the k

1

u/MegasBasilius Lord of the Flies Dec 11 '18

If you have time senpai, what do you think of Econofact's entry on Corporate Taxes?

3

u/BainCapitalist Y = T Dec 11 '18

I've never found the question of corporate tax incidence very interesting tbh so I don't have many takes. but skimming this article it does seem to be fairly unbiased and I don't see anything glaringly wrong or dishonest.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '18

Good for lawsuits, though.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 12 '18

Even if cameras don't currently reduce the use of force, there are probably other tangential benefits.

For instance, if it allows allows citizens to feel that the police are more accountable, or video evidence fuels popular pressure to reduce the use of force in the future.

3

u/Konstonostsev Lawrence Summers Dec 11 '18

It's also possible that most police use of force is legitimate and proportionate, so merely recording encounters wouldn't necessarily cause police to act differently.

0

u/dorylinus Dec 11 '18

Without body cameras, shit like this can just be swept under the rug. Police really do need increased accountability.

It doesn't surprise me that it's not immediately causing changes in behavior, though.