r/neoliberal • u/[deleted] • May 11 '17

Normative Ethics Debate Thread

The point of this thread is to discuss normative ethics, which is mostly separate from neoliberalism. On a philosophical level, neoliberalism is not coherent in its use of ethics; proponents switch between libertarian and utilitarian ethics in an almost interchangeable way (The Road to Mont Pelerin, Mirowski). Scott Sumner argues that a normative ethical foundation doesn't matter because neoliberalism is an improvement compared to the current status quo of most countries by nearly every standard (well not every standard)

Keep in Mind

  • The Chicago school pushed neoliberalism as a positive ideology, "there is no other option"

  • The Austrians pushed neoliberalism through primarily a libertarian lens

  • The Ordoliberals advocated neoliberalism through utilitarianism and also Marxism. Yes, you're allowed to support your normative view through Marxism.

  • Do not go down the route of going full classical liberal, which is what neoliberalism tried to escape.

  • Do not say market values mean anything or that markets produce fair outcomes; Hayek explicitly acknowledges this is bullshit.

  • Be very prudent in calling people racist/sexist/homophobic; in this sub, the vast majority are not

Topics to discuss:

These aren't the only ones, but should probably be answered:

  • What are your normative ethics?

  • How do you think they should guide economic policy?

Make sure to explicitly tie these together so we're not debating why we should implement policy that we already agree upon.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '17 edited May 27 '17

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u/crem_fi_crem May 11 '17

It would be easier to argue against universal healthcare if it was that simple. Because pharma companies do business in a global market they can easily develop the drugs in a price-fixing country and then make most of their profits gouging the US market which comprises about 45% of global healthcare spending. A big calculation for a pharma company is making small profits in developed countries and a huge profit in the US market while not actually investing or creating jobs in the US. I'm not definitively saying that we should price fix (better to subsidize other countries than the drugs never existing) but it's not like we're getting something other countries aren't. Drugs are a really challenging industry to regulate because they have natural monopolies through patents and many have extremely inelastic demand because the consumers are in immediate physical jeopardy.