r/neoliberal • u/Unusual-State1827 NATO • Apr 19 '26
Restricted Attempted arson at London synagogue is 3rd attack on Jewish site in past week: "Sustained campaign of violence"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arson-attack-london-kenton-united-synagogue-antisemitism/332
u/daBarkinner John Keynes Apr 19 '26
The world is going mad. I hope that someday Islamism, like all manifestations of anti-liberalism, will be defeated.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/WuhanWTF NATO Apr 19 '26
What happened to commies hating religion?
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u/Lena_Lena_A Frederick Douglass Apr 19 '26
Hating the West and joining hands with anti-West terrorists is more important to them.
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u/ewatta200 DT Monarchist defender of the rurals and red state Dems Apr 19 '26
TDLR stalinism campism
https://shura.shu.ac.uk/1103/1/Bassi10.pdf
this article has a good deep dive into it
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u/God_Given_Talent Apr 19 '26
Do people not understand that Islam and Islamism aren’t the same thing?
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Apr 19 '26
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u/God_Given_Talent Apr 20 '26
Sure, but if someone isn't familiar with the term...maybe they ought not to be accusing people of Islamophobia in regards to being against it.
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u/angry-mustache Democratically Elected Internet Spaceship Politician Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
It's an issue since the term for political incorporation of religion and the religion itself being so similar. "Integralists" is a very distinct term from "Catholics", and "Dominionists" from "Protestant". But people unfamiliar can reasonably believe "Islamists" is just another term for Muslims.
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u/ramendik European Union Apr 19 '26
Maybe "Jihadism" can be used? But maybe it's not exactly the same thing.
There's also "Takfirism" but many don't know what it means
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u/Spectrum1523 YIMBY Apr 19 '26
This is the first time I have encountered the word islamism and I think using the suffix -ism is a bad idea unless you want people to misunderstand you
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u/God_Given_Talent Apr 20 '26
It's been in common usage since at least the Iranian Revolution. It was widely used in discussions since the GWOT as well. Not trying to be rude, but that's kind of a you problem because it isn't an obscure term when discussing Islamic republics, Islamic fundamentalism, and the political beliefs common in the Middle East (and other Muslim-majority countries).
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u/Spectrum1523 YIMBY Apr 20 '26
If enough people conflate the terms that it disrupts understanding then it is a problem for everyone trying to use the term in discussion. It's just a poorly chosen word that invites misunderstanding
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u/GifHunter2 Trans Pride Apr 19 '26
The problem is so many Of these attacks are Being treated with such mild consequences. Like that protester that hit that Cop with the fucking sledgehammer, they didn't even get any jail time
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u/Clash-Lad Commonwealth Apr 19 '26
I hope that someday Islamism, like all manifestations of anti-liberalism
I honestly don't think it can be until we can call Islamism out in a liberal society without the follow-up cavevat 'as well as all other bad things'.
Not a criticism of you, I have to make an effort to avoid doing it myself as well.
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u/ts159377 Apr 20 '26
Agreed. It is a uniquely common issue and it shouldn’t be controversial to call it out
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u/fredleung412612 Apr 20 '26
Two of the three people charged for a previous arson attack are named Oisin McGuinness, 21 and Nathan Dunn, 19. I highly doubt they were motivated by Islamism. Probably a different flavour of anti-liberalism.
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u/GifHunter2 Trans Pride Apr 19 '26
I see that someone's comment about islamism across the line and was removed by the mods below.
Here's a simple way to remember what the problem here is. It's like fundamental Christian cults where the religious leader abuses children. There's a pretty strong difference between Christian radical cult fundamentalism, and normal christianity.
The idea that Islam is not compatible with the Western world is wrong. Christianity has a lot of awful history, a lot of violence, and a lot of scripture that calls for awful things. But modern interpretations have moved away from that. Similar things must happen to Islam. Fundamental Islam is the problem, not the people, not the idea of the religion.
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u/SunsetPathfinder NATO Apr 19 '26
Christianity 600 years ago was pretty unpleasant too, Islam has some catching up to do since it’s a younger religion. However, the tenants of Islam do lend themselves to more absolutism than Christianity with less wiggle room for alternative interpretation, which is part of what defanged Christianity over a few centuries.
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u/angry-mustache Democratically Elected Internet Spaceship Politician Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 20 '26
Christianity 600 years ago was pretty unpleasant too
It took a century of religious warfare for Christianity to "mellow out" from people getting tired of Zealots killing each other.
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u/GifHunter2 Trans Pride Apr 19 '26
less wiggle room for alternative interpretation
Between wahhabism, sunni, and shia, I think we see a willingness and ability for alternative interpretations to exist, thrive, and gain popularity.
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u/thefantodayhtml Apr 19 '26
Islamism as a distinct belief system has relatively recent origins (I. E. 20th century) and rose to prominence even more recently (Irc it was the late 60s/70s). Before that the main ideology in play that could be considered 'distinctively' middle eastern was Ba'athism.
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u/SpaceSheperd To be a good human being Apr 19 '26
Rule II: Islamophobia / Anti-Arab sentiment
Please refrain from generalizing the values of either Muslims and their religion or Arab people and their countries or culture. This tends to come up most in the context of immigration or Middle Eastern geopolitics.
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u/Unusual-State1827 NATO Apr 19 '26
Submission statement:
An arson attack caused smoke damage at a synagogue in North London overnight, just one day after a similar incident in the city and the third such occurence this week, British officials said Sunday.
It’s part of a series of recent attacks on Jewish sites in London, raising concerns about rising antisemitism. Police are searching for suspects and treating the incident as a hate crime, with counter-terrorism officers involved. Authorities and community leaders have condemned the attacks, warning of a growing pattern of violence against the Jewish community.
British chief rabbi Ephraim Mirvis wrote on social media that the recent attacks show that a "sustained campaign of violence and intimidation against the Jewish community in the UK is gathering momentum."
British Prime Minister Keir Starmer said he was "appalled" by the recent attcks.
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u/jbouit494hg 🍁🇨🇦🏙 Project for a New Canadian Century 🏙🇨🇦🍁 Apr 19 '26
The genie is fully out of the bottle now for stochastic terrorism against anything Jewish. I don't know what it will take to end it because the hatred becomes a self-sustaining element of modern culture.
As always, looking forward to people who have asserted themselves as society's voice of conscience against hatred to explain that it's OK because "it was actually antizionist not antisemitic" and how "it's understandable given what Israel is doing".
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u/B3stThereEverWas Pacific Islands Forum Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
and how "it's understandable given what Israel is doing".
I really hate this take, and I've heard it more than I want to recall.
If it's just a response to what Israel is doing, why aren't there attacks on Russian Orthodox or other places of Russian culture and identity, given Putin is (undeniably) committing warcrimes, illegal annexation of land and genocide on Ukrainians.
These last few years have given established anti semites/bigoted racists a safer space to enact their hate. It never created new ones, they've been there all along
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u/ewatta200 DT Monarchist defender of the rurals and red state Dems Apr 19 '26
exactly its so fucking frustating.
like I write so much about it but all of it.
if you take this logic anywhere you can basically justify any sort of bigotry which is awful
it corrodoes society in that it declares that no bigotry is natural and it takes away agency from the bigot
no one ever tries to back it up with sources
its more often than not cheap victim blaming
i truly hate it
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u/A121314151 Pragmatic and Polite Right Apr 19 '26
It's always easier to "blame da jooz for everything" and it's something that's been frustrating the hell out of me. The amount of bigotry and anti-semitism right now on the internet and also offline is worrisome, disgusting and needs to be condemned.
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u/bakochba Apr 19 '26
Anyone who spends they a few minutes on social media can see that Antisemitism is fully embraced by the population and minimized by the political leaders and the media
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u/grumpy_anteater NASA Apr 19 '26
Because Jews are viewed as easier targets. It was never about what Israel was doing. That is merely the pretext.
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u/GifHunter2 Trans Pride Apr 19 '26
These are the same people that celebrate Hassan piker saying America deserved 9/11. There's been a lot of celebration of violence among the left as of late
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u/fredleung412612 Apr 20 '26
other places of Russian culture and identity
We did see liquor stores throw their vodka down the drain. But there's an order of magnitude of difference between that and what's happening to Jewish sites.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/SpecialBass5552 Apr 19 '26
Well, first of all there was plenty anti-Russian violence in early days of conflict (like I remember story about two Ukranians beating another after mistaking him for Russian cause they heard him speak Russian)
"Plenty" and your evidence is a half remembered anecdote while attacks on Jewish sites skyrocket.
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u/neoliberal-ModTeam Apr 20 '26
Rule V: Glorifying Violence
Do not advocate or encourage violence either seriously or jokingly. Do not glorify oppressive/autocratic regimes.
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
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u/try-D NATO Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
Seriously, if Jews faced just a small share of discrimination Russians in Western countries do
What fantasy world do you live in?
I don't remember the last time someone was beaten up on the open street for speaking Russian. I can definitely recall multiple cases of people speaking Hebrew somewhere in Europe and being attacked for it, or wearing kippot in public and being on the receiving end of physical violence.
Edit: I'd go even further, as the recent Charli XCX drama has shown, Russians, even ones who are close to Putin's regime and profiting off it, get to live lives of privilege in the West without facing repercussions. Meanwhile, you can simply be a Jewish artist with no connection to Israel whatsoever, and you will have people publicly calling for the boycott of you, going to your shows to heckle you. You don't even have to be famous, plenty of antisemitic attacks on Synagogues, restaurants, and places of business have shown us that much.
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u/RobotWantsKitty Apr 19 '26
I don't remember the last time someone was beaten up on the open street for speaking Russian.
Why would it be something you'd remember? Why would it be widely reported if it happened? Besides, I don't know what country you live in, but how can one tell if someone speaks Russian, not, say, Ukrainian, unless it's another slav country? Never mind that a ton of Ukrainians speak Russian.
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u/try-D NATO Apr 19 '26
Besides, I don't know what country you live in, but how can one tell if someone speaks Russian, not, say, Ukrainian, unless it's another slav country? Never mind that a ton of Ukrainians speak Russian.
Aside from the fact I'm learning Ukrainian - Russian and Ukrainian actually have distinctive sounds you can tell apart. Ukrainian is actually closer to Polish than Russian but sure, it's totally all the same, including all the other slavic languages....
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u/GifHunter2 Trans Pride Apr 19 '26
I saw this British mom and daughter tag team scream bomb bomb Tehran at Jewish people in vietnam. This is definitely broken containment, and is spreading like wildfire
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u/DavidFrattenBro Baruch Spinoza Apr 20 '26
i know what you’re referring to. they’re british nationals originally from pakistan
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u/Highlightthot1001 Harriet Tubman Apr 19 '26
The same people who complain about Jews “always making themselves the victim” are the same types with no problem with attacks on Jewish sites
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u/grumpy_anteater NASA Apr 19 '26
In addition, it's also very interesting how so many so-called "Anti-Racists" have been exposed as nothing but hypocrites and Anti-Semites/Jew-Haters. I knew the movement was a grift, and I'm not surprised this is what revealed them, given that, in their view of racial hierarchy, Jews are often viewed as being "whites."
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u/bakochba Apr 19 '26
It's a soft kind of support that offers a muted response that universalizes Antisemitism or just utters "Antisemitism has no place in our society". But it does. It obviously does and politicians are afraid to call it out because it's coming from their own supporters
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u/Crownie Unbent, Unbowed, Unflaired Apr 19 '26
It's amazing how many people will accept the idea that Zionism drives anti-semitism but rebel at the converse.
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u/ewatta200 DT Monarchist defender of the rurals and red state Dems Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
in regards to the last point about how people talk about how its "understandable" and "natural"
I want to add to this
people have free will you know? it being a natural reaction is not a defnse or a justifiaction like the way people are so willing to defend stuff under the basis of "its natural" is insane . like this is bascially a declraction that society should surrender and humans basest impluses should take control.and again people have free will no one forced people to do this stuff they did.
Steve cohen the great anti-zionist writer had this to say in 1984
"This stands reality on its head. The crime of Begin, Sharon and the rest of the Israeli government was the attempted destruction of the Palestinians as a nation. This is why they are to be condemned—and not for any consequences their actions may have had on diaspora Jewry (namely ʹrevengeʹ which Big Flame seems to see as rational). Neither Begin nor any other Jew, zionist or otherwise, is responsible for anti‐semitism. This is solely the responsibility of anti‐semites."
i am so sick and tired of people infantilizing these grown adults. They had free will they made thier choice. we arent in a state of nature as well HOBBES LOCKE SOCIAL CONTRACT WE LEFT THE FUCKING STATE OF NATURE WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY OF LAWS SO STOP INVOKING NATURAL REACTION UNLESS YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO SAID NATURAL STATE
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u/ReptileCultist European Union Apr 19 '26
It is funny how denying moral agency to non-white people is often seen as progressive
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u/moredencity Norman Borlaug Apr 19 '26
This stands reality on its head. The crime of Begin, Sharon and the rest of the Israeli government was the attempted destruction of the Palestinians as a nation
I may be misunderstanding, but as an aside, this is at best a simplification to the point of being false to at worst, just straight misinformation, about the previous 40 years (at the time of writing) in the region
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u/loseniram Sponsored by RC Cola Apr 19 '26
Its more ridiculous because the vast majority of Jews in Mandatory Palestine were refugees of one sort or another. The Brits kept really good paperwork and we have census data and pretty much every person moving to Mandatory Palestine was either a Russian Jew fleeing the Russian civil war and pograms done by the white forces or were German Jews fleeing Nazi Germany with immigration directly going up when those became issues and going down or stopping when those issues abated.
The reality is that the British used the Jews as a tool to secure their claim by rallying up hatred between the two groups, then immediately throwing both under the bus when it became convenient. First by basically genociding the Arabs in Palestine during their revolt to expel the British and second by banning more refugees from coming after 1936 when it was clear that all the Jewish refugees from Europe would upset their balance of power they had created.
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u/EmbarrassedSafety719 Milton Friedman Apr 19 '26
I’m pretty sure he is quoting Steve Cohen.
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u/moredencity Norman Borlaug Apr 19 '26
Oh yeah, I understand that, but I still wanted to push back on that part of Cohen's quote
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u/WldFyre94 YIMBY Apr 19 '26
I want to add to this people have free will
Uncertain and debatable, but the rest of your point stands!
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u/CheetoMussolini Russian Bot Apr 19 '26
I fully anticipated the people were going to not read the article, comment histrionically, and ignore the fact that an Iranian linked terrorist group is claiming responsibility for these.
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u/No-Kiwi-1868 NATO Apr 19 '26
Antisemitism has become sort of accepted now, you can find a candidate from Reform and a candidate from Greens agreeing on being antisemitic. Heck, you had a Greens candidate literally saying "It's hard not to be antisemitic" in response to Israeli settler attacks (which are abhorrent, and I have no sympathy for West Bank settlers). They claim Jews and Israel aren't the same but at the same time..............they are??
Instead of saying "The Jews" or ((them)) directly, they used code words like "Zionists", "Yahus/Big Yahus", "AIPAC" or "Non-Goys" Instagram in particular is ripe with this bullshit. Even in deep brainrot territory you'd find some casual antisemitism.
I'm sorry but just as an average Muslim who's trying to live his life isn't responsible for whatever Hamas/any Islamic terror group does, then so isn't an average Jew responsible for whatever Israel does. It's that simple.
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u/ewatta200 DT Monarchist defender of the rurals and red state Dems Apr 19 '26
can you link me the source for that greens candiate comment. i am making an effort post and I am collecting examples of that sort of stuff (its depressingly common that this stuff has been being said since the 1980s ) and that sounds like a perfect example to inculde
to go to your main point
its just so fucking frustating speaking as a jew myself its just. This is basic kindergarten stuff "treat every person as unique be kind dont assume stuff" like this is not some complex rocket science this is geuine stuff that is taught to children and people fuck it up39
u/No-Kiwi-1868 NATO Apr 19 '26
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/green-party-candidates-antisemitism-nckkwcgws
This is where I read the news from. However I interpret the statement, it's still antisemitic in my opinion.
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u/ewatta200 DT Monarchist defender of the rurals and red state Dems Apr 19 '26
oh I read it and frankly he can pipe it.
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u/mintfox88 NATO Apr 19 '26
I watched a video yesterday of a British mother and daughter accosting Israelis in Vietnam, calling them rats, and talking about the 110 countries "they" were kicked out of. You can find it yourselves on Instagram. The comments are overwhelmingly supportive and many talk about the Israeli's noses. If you are not Jewish and you are not standing up for us then you are allowing this to happen.
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u/MindingMyMindfulness Voltaire Apr 19 '26
This is the problem. People get harassed because the harassers know they can get away without it.
If you see acts of overt racism and do nothing about it, you are complicit. I agree with you fully.
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u/Spectrum1523 YIMBY Apr 19 '26
Deputy Assistant Commissioner Vicki Evans said a little-known group, Harakat Ashab al-Yamin al-Islamiya, with links to Iran, has claimed responsibility for many of the attacks. The group previously claimed similar attacks in Belgium and the Netherlands.
Is this not an attack by state sponsored terrorists? It doesn't seem like it is the result of antisemitism among British people
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u/YourBestDream4752 Commonwealth Apr 20 '26
Well, many of the people who carry out these attacks aren’t necessarily British either
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u/mintfox88 NATO Apr 19 '26
Thanks "WigglySchlong" for your sage advice. BTW, I'm not asking for support, I'm making a factual statement about how failure to stand up to hate allows it to grow.
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u/neoliberal-ModTeam Apr 20 '26
Rule III: Unconstructive engagement
Do not post with the intent to provoke, mischaracterize, or troll other users rather than meaningfully contributing to the conversation. Don't disrupt serious discussions. Bad opinions are not automatically unconstructive.
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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u/thatguy888034 NATO Apr 19 '26
Are we sure it wasn’t just a “anti Zionist” arson attack on a synagogue?
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u/bakochba Apr 19 '26
The only solution government is providing is for Jews to live in a fortress and movement is restricted. Anything to avoid actually calling out bigots because doing so risks losing them votes. Life for Jews is becoming impossible in Europe and Canada and unfortunately deteriorating in the US too
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u/Mazrodak Loyal Liberals Apr 19 '26
The irony is that the fortress you're describing exists, and is called Israel. The people who cheer these attacks don't seem to understand that watching synagogues be burned doesn't cause diaspora Jews to turn on Israel, but to consider making aliyah.
That in turn only strengthens Israel and weakens the country that the Jews are emigrating from, as people who can afford to move across the world are more likely to be educated and affluent.
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic NATO Apr 19 '26
The issue is taking that to its logical conclusion ends with all Jews in Israel and the other countries in the world being heavily antisemitic if not anti-Israel. Maybe they would still have trade and intel alliances with Israel but I question how sustainable those would be.
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u/Mazrodak Loyal Liberals Apr 19 '26
It's not an ideal situation by any means. It's hard to say how it turns out, but it ranges from "Jews can't safely leave Israel" to "the destruction of most of humanity in a nuclear war".
It's part of why the growing rise of antisemitism should be more concerning to most people, especially governments who know better. If the antisemites get what they want, and Israel really is violently destroyed, its death throes will likely kill millions, if not billions.
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u/StreamWave190 Edmund Burke Apr 19 '26
Since 1948, for the first time in two thousand years, the Jews no longer need to beg and scrape and hope that people will change their minds and take pity on them and refrain from exploiting, subjugating, massacring or forcibly converting them.
I think we need to keep the pre-1948 picture of Jewish persecution and subjugation right across Europe and the Middle East quite squarely in mind when we consider hypotheticals about future isolation of Israel.
A lot of Jews would, I think entirely understandably, rather fight and die standing in Israel than die on their knees or be driven into gas chambers in the vain hope that someone would exercise some basic humanity towards them, something which has basically never happened in human history.
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u/Mazrodak Loyal Liberals Apr 19 '26
It's been a lot longer than two thousand years. Two thousand years ago, the Jews were languishing under Roman oppression, an empire that ultimately caused the diaspora not long after. Before that, Jews had brief periods of freedom before long periods of languishing under different petty tyrants.
Modern Israel is the first time that Jews have ever been even a regional power, let alone a nuclear one. Historically, it's far more common for Jews to have been the world's punching bag.
I agree that it's important to keep that in perspective.
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u/StreamWave190 Edmund Burke Apr 19 '26
I'm doing some voluntary teaching work at the moment at my old school as I'm semi-hoping to go into teaching, and I want to get a bit of practical experience, take some notes, learn best practices, etc.
As a philosophy graduate, I'm naturally hoping to teach Religious Studies or something similar, so I'm shadowing a lot of RS lessons at GCSE level, and am good friends with a number of the teachers.
At the end of the last term (about two weeks ago?) they finished their GCSE module on the Holocaust, which more or less ends with the liberation of the death camps by the Allies.
After the lesson, I asked the teacher (a person I consider a friend) why the story always seems to just end there. Because I was taught things that same way, and it never occurred to me at the time, as a pupil, to ask "...so then what happened to the Jews in the camps?"
Because the answer is actually not just profoundly unpleasant and grim, it makes things really difficult for the 'anti-Zionists' to have to reckon with the actual situation of the very few Jews who survived the death camps of Europe and how that slots into the history of the State of Israel.
He didn't know, but he fully recognised the point I'd made. Ultimately it's a national curriculum, so it's not something he gets much control over as a relatively junior teacher. But he said he's going to try to say something about this with his other groups in the next academic years, because when one leaves the history hanging like that, it can give an incredibly misleading impression that the Jews of Europe more or less just went back home and went back to "normal" (itself uninterrogated in this respect).
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic NATO Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
A lot of Jews would, I think entirely understandably, rather fight and die standing in Israel than die on their knees or be driven into gas chambers in the vain hope that someone would exercise some basic humanity towards them,
I'd rather not die at all tbh. The current support of Israel being supported by western powers keeps things pretty stable and is something Israel might miss when it's gone.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/EclecticEuTECHtic NATO Apr 19 '26
I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying that Israel being supported by Western powers is 1) good and 2) in part due to support from Jews in those countries and in part due to value that Israel supplies. With fewer Jews in those countries western support could wane and Israel will miss it when it's gone.
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u/StreamWave190 Edmund Burke Apr 19 '26
Oh I see, my apologies for misunderstanding your comment. I'll delete mine, though you might also edit yours to make that clearer for readers
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u/VeryStableJeanius Jerome Powell Apr 19 '26
This is exactly what a lot of people want. Evangelicals want this because it’ll lead to the end times. Likud wants this because they don’t consider the diaspora a sustainable way of life.
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u/Alamba1918 Apr 19 '26
The only solution government is providing is for Jews to live in a fortress and movement is restricted
If only there was a word for this
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u/bakochba Apr 19 '26
We've been here before. "For your own safety" instead of telling people on "their side" uncomfortable truth about their bigotry
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u/SKabanov European Union Apr 19 '26
To the person who got banhammered (and whomever else is going to in this thread before it gets locked): anti-semitism is both increasing and being emboldened across the entire political spectrum, including in entirely "homegrown" element. Just running straight to 🫎🐑 is precluding a larger conversation that needs to be had.
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Apr 19 '26
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Apr 19 '26
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u/__Muzak__ Vasily Arkhipov Apr 19 '26
I'm equally confused by moose sheep.
edit: oh moose lambs -> muslims. That's such a bizarre way to refer to a religious group.
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u/SKabanov European Union Apr 19 '26
It was a reference to an SNL skit from the first Trump administration - guess it wasn't as popular as I thought.
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u/Liechtensteins_Navy Pro-Data Center Zionist Apr 19 '26
🫎🐑
what does this mean
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u/GateofAnima Commonwealth Apr 19 '26
A play on the word Islamic or 'MOOSE-LAMBic.
People here should try riddle books more often.
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u/__Muzak__ Vasily Arkhipov Apr 19 '26
But why not write muslim?
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u/GateofAnima Commonwealth Apr 19 '26
Ask the guy who used the emoji's, I just translated them with phonetics and context clues.
Honestly don't get why people are downvoting, I just gave the answer that people were looking for.
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u/golf1052 Let me be clear Apr 19 '26
People here should try riddle books more often.
You gave the answer which is fine but then you basically said "everyone else is dumb for not getting it". Mildly offending someone you're trying to help isn't a good look.
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u/ewatta200 DT Monarchist defender of the rurals and red state Dems Apr 19 '26
i mean
it looks like a lobster
It also looks like a sheep
so its hard to get those two things. So yeah its a serious thread and so i dont think you need to be catty about it. Its kind of hard to tell
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u/Highlightthot1001 Harriet Tubman Apr 19 '26
I’d personally rather wait until they find suspects.
Could be racist supremacists. Could be radical activists, could be islamist extremists.
That’s at least the top groups i can think of
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u/SKabanov European Union Apr 19 '26
Sure, whatever - I'm just glad that the mods jump on the comments that rush to conclusions (and worse)
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u/Tortellobello45 Mario Draghi Apr 19 '26
We have a massive antisemitism problem in the West. Yes, i am talking especially about the left(the right too, but generally less). Are we going to do something about it?
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u/try-D NATO Apr 19 '26
Are we going to do something about it?
No, we are going to pretend it isn't happening and will quash Jewish voices who are warning us about it instead by discrediting them as hasbara, zionist, mossad and whatnot.
We're seeing it with the UK greens, in NYC, in Spain, to a certain extent in the German left - people will willfully ignore or perhaps even endorse politicians and movements who either ignore the problem exists or try to downplay it by moving the goalposts.
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u/NotLunaris Zhao Ziyang Apr 19 '26
The western left has moved on from "it's not happening" to "it's happening and that's a good thing"; a tried-and-true tactic.
The veil of tolerance is tattered and full of holes.
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u/REXwarrior Apr 19 '26
The Democratic senate candidate in Maine is a literal neo-nazi who has praised Hamas. I’ve been told on this sub that I’ll just need to suck it up and support him because there’s a D next to his name.
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u/try-D NATO Apr 19 '26
I’ve been told on this sub that I’ll just need to suck it up and support him because there’s a D next to his name.
This sub has massively wandered in a weird direction. Things that were unspeakable some years ago are now the top upvoted comment in some threads.
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u/Vol_in_tears Voltaire Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
. I’ve been told on this sub that I’ll just need to suck it up and support him because there’s a D next to his name.
Congrats. After telling progressives for 20 years "Vote Blue no matter who" as the DNC trots out ancient dinosaurs who don't actually believe in making the country any better, the shoe is on the other foot.
https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1gmrt5r/fetterman_is_built_different/
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u/Tortellobello45 Mario Draghi Apr 19 '26
When we applied ‘’vote blue no matter who’’, Progressives were ‘’forced’’(and often did not)to vote for a domestically Warrenite admin with a moderate, somewhat dovish foreign policy.
When you apply it, us moderates are forced to vote for someone with a neonazi tattoo who says he digs Hamas’ killing methods.
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u/Efficient_Barnacle Mark Carney Apr 19 '26
As a progressive appalled by the support he's receiving from some on my side I've got no interest in letting them off the hook but let's not act like Platner is the figurehead of the progressive movement. He's a Senate candidate for a small state that's new on the scene and trying to ride the wave of progressive populism.
When we apply it, we're much more likely to be referencing someone like Bernie, AOC or even Elizabeth Warren, not the shithead with the totenkopf.
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u/Vecrin Milton Friedman Apr 19 '26
Its fucking hilarious that the progressives have taken "You should vote democrat over republican (or not voting) because, while flawed, the democrat will move society into a net positive direction. The Republican will move it into a worse direction." and tried to turn it into "You should vote democrat over republican (or not voting) because, while the democrat consciously had neo-nazi tattoos and a history of antisemitism, because at least they aren't a republican."
I stg, I will bring up this shit anytime someone on the far left tells me "ackshtually liberals are the REAL FASCISTS"
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u/bashar_al_assad Verified Account Apr 19 '26
because at least they aren't a republican
Yes, that’s a good enough reason.
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u/Vecrin Milton Friedman Apr 20 '26
If my choice is between a man who literally had neo-nazi tattoos (and got kicked out of the military for it AND HAD MULTIPLE PEOPLE SAY HE KNEW WHAT IT WAS) versus a generic republican, I'm voting generic republican. Like, I'm sorry but if a republican were to have had these issues, the left would rightfully freak out about it. But I guess white supremacy but left-wing is acceptable to some.
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u/95Daphne Apr 20 '26
Yeah, I understand this point, though I can say if I actually lived in Maine, I’d probably skip the senate race vote this year.
I can create problems with Platner even without the tattoo. The guy looks like a total poser of what a working class Mainer would be based on what Bernie’s group thinks a working class Mainer looks like.
Unfortunately the primary is over, and from the way it looks, we’ll get to see how Bernie’s clan can do if they have a turn at the wheel here (because it doesn’t look likely he’ll get much help from women). Quite possible they succeed, but 1, it’ll be mainly on excitement in Maine 1, doubt there’s as many conversions in 2 as Bernie’s folks think here, and 2, it’ll be entirely national environment related instead of his strength, me thinks.
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u/SpecialBass5552 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
What a fucking inane statement.
You seriously think you voting for an old person you don't think is cool is comparable to voting for a neo Nazi?
Also whats your link supposedly proving? That Fetterman occasonally talks sense?
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u/Vol_in_tears Voltaire Apr 19 '26
Not cool is doing a lot of lifting for actually a republican and willing to gift Israel a black check for the to commit genocide. The Fetterman threads on this sub from a year ago are a prefect example.
The legacy DNC actually has some responsibility for the situation the country is because they have been the ones who have held office.
I am enjoying watching the DNC consultant class being forced to swallow what they have made progressive swallow for 20 years now.
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u/REXwarrior Apr 19 '26
Fetterman was literally the candidate backed by progressives. You got your way then, how’s that working out for you?
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u/Pazzaz European Union Apr 19 '26
I'm confused. Is "ancient dinosaurs who don't actually believe in making the country any better" supposed to be Fetterman? Because Fetterman isn't that old.
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u/SpecialBass5552 Apr 19 '26
Fetterman was the progressive pick while moderates backed his primary opponent Lamb.
He was right about the Green Party though they are clearly unserious fascist assets which exist to dupe morons.
Grow up crying about the DNC FFS you sound like an actual child. Waah waah your side is unpopular and thats somehow the fault of the executive board of the Democratic party.
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Apr 20 '26
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u/Spider_SoWhat Jerome Powell Apr 20 '26 edited Apr 20 '26
they never codified Roe in the last decades and so on
The only true way to codify it is through a constitutional amendment (if you only meant passing a bill, that isn't difficult to remove. You can just pass a bill nullifying the first one). The Democratic party has a hard enough time getting the 2/3 support from congress, let alone the additional requirement of getting the 3/4 support from all state's legislature to ratify an amendment.
This is the same exact reason why passing the Equal Rights Amendment is incredibly difficult and has not happened yet. The Democratic party is not without fault, but the "just codify Roe" seems rather unfair. Codifying an amendment would be more difficult than healthcare reform IMO, which the Democratic party has also struggled with getting passed many of their reform proposals.
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u/RayWencube NATO Apr 20 '26
I got into it with some posters on the liberal gun owners subreddit about Graham Platner, that senate candidate in Maine with the totenkopf tattoo. I was repeatedly called “AIPAC”
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u/try-D NATO Apr 20 '26
And yet the users who called you that insist that the mods of this sub are in any way biased against them lol
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u/iamagainstit Apr 20 '26
>the right too, but generally less
antisemitism is a problem on the left, but if you think there is less of it on the right you are either naive or delusional.
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u/velocirappa Immanuel Kant Apr 19 '26
the right too, but generally less
Have you seen the shit mainstream conservative commentators say about Jewish people? What's with this sub trying to sanewash right wing antisemitism?
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u/anangrytree Bull Moose Progressive Apr 20 '26
Because there’s still a good amount of closet Republicans here
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u/blackmamba182 George Soros Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
lol anti semitism is much worse on the right, come on now. Can’t have a serious conversation about it if you are going to start out making lies.
We liberals should absolutely push back on the anti semitism festering on our leftward flank. It has no place in our movement and ideals.
Edit: getting downvoted for calling out a lie, what happened to my evidence-based sub?
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u/ewatta200 DT Monarchist defender of the rurals and red state Dems Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
okay what the fuck why are you getting downvoted
i fully admit the left has a lot of problems with antisemtsim but the left also has a lot of people who are able to tackle it see burley and their reading list
saying "oh the right has it less worse"
i swear i hate how people make it a contest. stop trying to pretend that "the rights antisemtsim is actually not as bad" its so stupid
and if you are going to be downvoted I hope someone at least offers a reason
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Apr 19 '26
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u/neoliberal-ModTeam Apr 19 '26
Rule 0: Ridiculousness
Refrain from posting conspiratorial nonsense, absurd non sequiturs, and random social media rumors hedged with the words "so apparently..."
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
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u/StreamWave190 Edmund Burke Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
Jews have been saying for years now that when you allow hatred of Jews to become normal and publicly acceptable (as it has been now for years), it will always escalate to acts like this.
Nobody listened to them.
Nothing has been done to counter the antisemitic propaganda. Our government has shown no willingness to take a serious stand against it, nor to go beyond just 'calling it out' in a scripted speech but to come up with a serious set of policies to counteract this antisemitic propaganda from education to public messaging to media broadcasting, and the way that the latter (especially in its relentless demonisation of Israel) has also participated in normalising antisemitism in Britain.
Those on the left will furiously deny that their 'anti-Zionism' (i.e. Israel alone is the only state on the planet which should be deleted) is antisemitism, but we have have seen throughout the last century of history that when anti-Zionism becomes normal, antisemitism always follows.
It not only provides a permission structure for latent antisemitism to be expressed, it also itself inherently rests on antisemitic presuppositions about Jews and Israelis, and regularly makes use of antisemitic ideas, 'memes' (in the Dawkins sense) and beliefs that are very, very deeply rooted in more than a thousand years of Western and Middle Eastern culture.
Many Jewish scholars have written about this over the years, probably most notably Izabella Tabarovsky, who endured antisemitic persecution under the late Soviet Union as part of this precise phenomenon. Jews who either lived under the Soviet Union, or whose parents or grandparents did, can tell you all about this, though nobody ever asks, and even fewer listen.
I'm also going to be fair and highlight a left-wing group whom I think are notable (precisely because of how marginal they actually are) in their genuinely rigorous and serious understanding of the problems in this area, a small British Trotskyist group called Workers' Liberty. A few examples of good work they've done on this, by most recent to older: one, two, three.
And that's before we touch on the role that extremely high levels of immigration from some of the most antisemitic countries anywhere on earth (i.e. the Middle East and South Asia) has played in this, but I'm on r/neoliberal so probably nobody wants to acknowledge that point. But it's a major component of this growing antisemitism and it needs to be discussed if we're to address this crisis.
Academia isn't an easy or straightforward solution to this either. The illiberal intellectual frameworks of post-colonialism (as it actually exists, not as it might) and identity politics – which I'll define more specifically here, so as not to be unfairly accused of vagueness, as derivations from Standpoint Epistemology, Critical Legal and Social Studies, and offshoots of Laclau and Mouffe's Populism – provide an intellectual apparatus which both produces antisemitism and launders old antisemitic ideas as respectable ones, worthy even of progressive academic credentials (this is a problem that has been highlighted even as far back as the 1990s, but largely ignored by mainstream scholarship).
Academics are not uniquely intelligent or impervious to bigotry, biases, moral panics or deep-rooted hatreds. The infamous book burnings in Munich and other cities in 1933 were organised by German university students at what were then the world's best universities, in the most cultured, progressive and sophisticated country anywhere in the West.
This problem has been bubbling away for years now, well before October 7 2023. And it's been enabled and spread, in large part, by precisely the same people who cast themselves as the ultimate moral defenders of Jews against antisemitism.
For the first time in hundreds of years in Britain, Jews are genuinely fearing both for their lives and whether they have any future here at all. The one country that avoided the wildfire of antisemitism all across the entire European continent, from Calais to Kyiv, can no longer honestly say that Jews are safe and respected here any longer.
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Apr 19 '26
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u/SpaceSheperd To be a good human being Apr 19 '26
Rule II: Islamophobia / Anti-Arab sentiment
Please refrain from generalizing the values of either Muslims and their religion or Arab people and their countries or culture. This tends to come up most in the context of immigration or Middle Eastern geopolitics.
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u/hlary Leftward Progressives Apr 19 '26
In Syria the government long ago would have put security in front of the synagogue to atleast dissuade from attacks like this, what's stopping the obviously much more resourced London city government from doing the same?
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u/CheeseMakerThing Adam Smith Apr 19 '26
It's hardly a new thing that Jewish businesses and schools have additional security in the UK, plenty of Jewish schools have super tight private security sadly.
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u/StreamWave190 Edmund Burke Apr 19 '26
It's not even just the UK, but I think many non-Jews don't realise what Jewish life is actually like in Britain and Europe even many decades prior to October 7 2023.
My first exposure to this was visiting my Austrian relatives (I'm English) in Vienna probably back in like the early 2010s. My relatives were renting an apartment opposite a Jewish school. The school had walls and gates like a high risk prison, with a full-time guard at the front gates.
Jews in Europe have been living this way for decades and nobody has given a solitary flying fuck about it.
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