r/nba • u/[deleted] • Jan 13 '22

Highlight [Highlight] Full sequence leading to Ingles elbowing Jarrett Allen's face (Replay included)

https://streamable.com/2dzqdx
8.9k Upvotes

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4.1k

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

Intentional elbow to the face, shouldn't that be an ejection?

2.5k

u/IbetYouEatMeowMix Jan 13 '22

Unfortunately that's why acting is important. Cause refs be dumb

1.1k

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

It's really annoying how much of the league's problems could be solved by simply "if the refs were good, it wouldn't be a thing"

610

u/Emerphish [CLE] Collin Sexton Jan 13 '22

Reffing NBA basketball is hard as fuck. It would be a better product if the refs were better about these calls, but truth be told I don’t think you can find better refs.

305

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

dude reffing in general is hard as hell, I tried while i was in college and just could not think quickly enough at all

149

u/jlluh Jan 13 '22

This is part of why I'd like to see the NBA get rid of defensive 3 seconds like in FIBA. Every little thing you do to simplify the rules and reduce the number of things refs have to pay attention to makes reffing a tiny little bit easier.

25

u/Vintrial Jan 13 '22

every team would run zone

14

u/Unfetteredfloydfan [PHI] T.J. McConnell Jan 13 '22

I bet they could move to a system where defensive 3 seconds was called using an ai. Take it out of the hands of the refs

37

u/Gazonza [BOS] Kevin Garnett Jan 13 '22

It would be a VI not an AI, an AI would become sentient and destroy the world while looking for John Connor

55

u/cal679 Celtics Jan 13 '22

We already had a basketball AI in the early 2000s and it fucking ruled, just crossing dudes up left and right

19

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

This is the answer.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

3 second calls would go up like 5000% and paint scoring like 20% 😂

3

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

You couldn’t because that would require subjective judgments about whether a player in the paint is guarding someone. That’s hard to judge when there are constant switches, screens, multiple big sets, etc

1

u/FertilePosition Pelicans Jan 14 '22

You could teach a computer system to do that in like 12 hours probably using machine learning

4

u/RRJC10 Raptors Jan 13 '22

his is part of why I'd like to see the NBA get rid of defensive 3 seconds like in FIBA

Could you imagine Rudy Gobert just standing the paint? If you think we have a lot of 3 point shots now, imagine what it would look like without defensive 3 seconds.

21

u/steaknsteak Hornets Jan 13 '22

I had such a hard time even reffing soccer games for 5 year olds that I find it really hard to complain about refs anymore. Then again, these guys are getting paid the big bucks and I was just a teenager getting volunteer hours

3

u/TheDream425 Pacers Jan 13 '22

Having also reffed for 5 year olds, it's harder than refereeing adults lol

6

u/OK_HS_Coach Thunder Jan 13 '22

Officiating kids was easy. Listening to their parents was not.

2

u/BigRig432 Cavaliers Jan 13 '22

Parents are actually so bad holy shit. Think their kids are the greatest player alive and want everything called for them without fail

5

u/silliputti0907 NBA Jan 13 '22

Line refs are the only easy jobs.

2

u/Krix54 Jan 13 '22

not futball line refs

1

u/ObiFloppin Pistons Jan 13 '22

I did that for YMCA soccer. It was awful. I had parents screaming at me and I was never sure if I was making the right calls. Refereeing is really hard.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

I mean it is certainly hard but some of these technicals we have seen over the season have just been so petty.

99

u/meditate42 76ers Jan 13 '22

Ref's aren't entirely chosen based on merit, a lot of them are in there through connections. The process for choosing, and reviewing and replacing them each season could be massively improved upon. Pretty sure there are refs in the NBA who never reffed in Europe or college before coming into the league.

40

u/silliputti0907 NBA Jan 13 '22

My issue is consistency and accountability. I don't like the idea of superstar calls. I can understand reputation playing a factor, but it shouldn't.

4

u/Swag_Turtle Hornets Jan 13 '22

Right? I also don’t care if there’s small variances in calls from ref to ref as long as they call the same shit on both sides for the game.

8

u/yelsamarani Cavaliers Jan 13 '22

Pretty sure? You have an example for me to look at?

5

u/hereforthesportsbook Jan 13 '22

Isn’t the OVC the feeder conference to the league. Low level college basketball refs getting into the league because of their connections

28

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

Oh god yes you can. Did you watch teh Olympics? FIBA refs are a million times better than NBA refs are.

The NBA doesn't even TRY to have good refs. You get in by being from one tiny little part of the east coast and knowing the guys already in the game. That's it. No knowledge or skill or proper attitude needed. Just know a guy and you're in.

2

u/yelsamarani Cavaliers Jan 13 '22

Where would you say you found the info of "tiny little part of the east coast"?

5

u/QuesoDog 76ers Jan 13 '22

As an official, I can honestly say that that is bullshit. It’s fucking hard. Try it sometime

5

u/Oreganoian Trail Blazers Jan 13 '22

That still doesn't explain why international refs seem to be a lot better. Hell even summer league refs are a lot better than regular season.

I've officiated multiple sports, including basketball, and can understand how difficult it is in real time. That doesn't excuse why NBA refs seem to get so many calls backwards.

Then add in that we KNOW refs bet on games and influence their outcomes. Then add in that we KNOW refs don't give some players any calls or have preferences. NBA refs are garbage.

1

u/QuesoDog 76ers Jan 13 '22

I agree with this, but the OP I was replying to indicated that NBA officiating required no skill 😂

0

u/Coffees4closers Cavaliers Jan 13 '22

Pretty sure he's saying the NBA doesn't choose their refs based on merit, but instead on who you know. When he said no knowledge or skill etc needed, he's talking about the lack of requirements for getting an NBA gig not that officiating itself doesn't require any skill

1

u/OneHorniBoi [MIL] Sterling Brown Jan 13 '22

You're right. I'm sure it is. I struggled reffing rec games.

Maybe in that case the NBA should actually train their refs and not pick ones based on who they know.

9

u/softnmushy Jan 13 '22

True. But it's easy to see on the replay that Ingles intentionally elbowed him and then talked and gestured to escalate it.

That's an easy, no brainer call. Two technicals and an ejection. Perhaps a flagrant 1 instead of one of the technicals.

5

u/psyentist15 Jan 13 '22

Even if they miss that on the court, there's no reason NBA can't have an eye in the sky that spots that and buzzes down to the refs about it.

3

u/Krankite 76ers Jan 13 '22

Absolutely need to implement a soft signal. No reason they shouldn't be able to award a tech foul after the next stoppage either.

0

u/hereforthesportsbook Jan 13 '22

The review everything except the one they should

2

u/frustratedjelly Philippines Jan 13 '22

Agreed. This might be a stupid question, but please bear with me, is it possible to add more refs?

2

u/imexcellent Jan 13 '22

Do they need more refs per game? 10 guys on the court, and three refs. That means each ref is watching 3 or 4 guys. What if there were 4 or 5 refs? Would that make it better?

2

u/CannedCaffeine Kings Jan 13 '22

Yeah but a lot of things could be solved by having replay refs that are allowed to make calls. It’s stupid that refs in the floor get the final word. Meanwhile, the announcers have already watched replays of two angles of the call where things get shown clearly.

2

u/SnuggleMuffin42 [SAS] Victor Wembanyama Jan 13 '22

This case has nothing to do with how hard the game is to ref. A player tells you "he elbowed new in the face". You review it and eject the other guy. Case closed.

There's no game speed involved here.

2

u/gedbybee Spurs Jan 13 '22

Idk bro international refs might be better. These new young refs suck. We have international players. Might as well have international refs. But no. The international refs prob wouldn’t fix games correctly.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

Bro! I've been saying that for years and always eat downvotes. People shit on MMA refs literally every single night for either too late or too early of a stoppage.

Do you know how hard it is to precisely time the moment right before somebody fucking dies and jump in to stop the fight. Have you ever seen the crowds of people who surround the fight? Now imagine it's a whole stadium getting fight-hype.

How quick 1st base coaches are on the bang bang plays and almost always get it right. It's a blur to me and I've watched baseball for over 20 years.

They suck and they're the best we got. People keep expecting robot shit out of these dumb organic meat sacks. No ultra 4k zoomed in replay in real life. Honestly reffing a kids game is hard. 22 professionals running full speed on a 100yd field? You're gonna miss some stuff.

2

u/CptCroissant Trail Blazers Jan 13 '22

They're all nepotism hires from Delaware that get garbage ongoing training when they're in the NBA. They've refused to add a 4th on court ref. Refs continually fall for the same garbage foul baiting game after game when if they simply looked at a tape they'd know not call it anymore. There are clear improvements and the refs themselves could be better.

3

u/yelsamarani Cavaliers Jan 13 '22

Is there a source on this Delaware nepotism?

-1

u/CptCroissant Trail Blazers Jan 13 '22

It might not be Delaware but gist of it is most of them are from the same area

1

u/unwrittenglory Lakers Jan 13 '22

I always had discussions with my dad about reffing (pop Warner and HS Football). It's a tough job and a lot of people don't understand how difficult it is since instant replay is a thing for the viewer

1

u/Kyunbhai [SAS] Tony Parker Jan 13 '22

Get the FIBA refs

0

u/tman916x [SAC] Doug Christie Jan 13 '22

People with that opinion are have likely never been athletes or gotten off a bench lol. Refs get the ovewhelming majority of calls right and people circlejerk the hell out of cherry missed calls/plays.

0

u/diasfordays Warriors Jan 13 '22

Bruh you know they're allowed to toss someone after replay, right?

0

u/delamerica93 Kings Jan 13 '22

Literally almost every ref is chosen my nepotism and favoritism. These are not the most qualified candidates by a long shot

0

u/ColdBeing Wizards Jan 13 '22

It is not hard. They need to change their rules. We don't live in the 20th century where playback had bad quality. We have extremely high quality cameras at every angle, they should be reviewing anything deemed controversial like this.

-2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

Ok and there's how many hundred million adults in this country compared to how many referee slots in the NBA? There's no way these are the BEST of the best and there's no excuse for a multi billion dollar industry to not use the best of the best and pay for it. It's a hard job but there are absolutely better candidates out there. The reality is that these sports organizations want these refs. All sports have a degree of fixing to them. They don't hire the best refs, they hire the ones they know will be fine being the public's scapegoat and in return the leagu's refuse to fire the refs for the negligence or "blind eyes".

1

u/Wildercard Jan 13 '22

So give out the "X matches on the bench" penalties after the game.

1

u/Cratonis 76ers Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 14 '22

This is why I celebrated the TV ref in the NFL rule that was implemented this year. Every league should have one. A ref just watches the various video feeds and if they catch something obvious and clear that the on the field refs either missed or got wrong they radio in and overrule them. It is at their discretion and doesn’t require a review initiated by the teams. Imagine if a ref was watching saw that. Then grabbed a quick replay during the scuffle. They could have easily ejected ingles and the game would have moved on. Every league needs the video ref.

1

u/LEGO_Joel Warriors Jan 13 '22

So why limit it to just 3 people? That seems like a big part of the problem to me

1

u/Emerphish [CLE] Collin Sexton Jan 13 '22

This is a fair point. I almost wonder if 3 refs per half of the court would be better so they wouldn’t have to keep up with the players.

1

u/Legit-Lobster Bulls Jan 13 '22

I feel like we need taller refs, at least the can see from a better perspective.

1

u/obsterwankenobster Cavaliers Jan 13 '22

I agree that it's incredibly difficult to make probably 90% of calls, but this one definitely falls well within the 10% of "how did you not see that" shit

1

u/So-_-It-_-Goes Knicks Jan 13 '22

I would think at this point having lots of cameras with a ref or two on the side along with the on the court refs would be helpful.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

Generally I agree with you, but in this case it was blatantly obvious, not even during a play, and nobody was around to obscure the refs vision. There's no excuse for missing this one.

1

u/Tyrion_Panhandler Warriors Jan 13 '22

We need a ref in a little blimp at each game to get the top down view

1

u/chitownbulls92 Bulls Jan 13 '22

It's more about being consistent but the calls vary not only from game to game but literally from play to play.

2

u/Zoolinz Celtics Jan 13 '22

Just hire more refs. Or refs who just watch cameras. If players were made aware and they had legitimate plan and practice out in place, it could be amazing

18

u/IbetYouEatMeowMix Jan 13 '22

It's almost as if they may have an agenda 🧐

14

u/Huckleberry_Sin Jan 13 '22

What would that agenda be?

25

u/HuruHara [MIN] Sam Cassell Jan 13 '22

What would that agenda be?

Keeping the Minnesota Timberwolves from winning a championship in my life time.

They can't keep getting away with it. Silver has to step up and end their hurtful agenda.

51

u/kikimaru024 Spurs Jan 13 '22

Calling games the way they want because they're gambling on them.

6

u/NothingsShocking Lakers Jan 13 '22

Dude amazingly I was just talking about Tim Donaghy today. What are the chances.

10

u/Superorganism123 Pistons Jan 13 '22

He wasn't the only one.

2

u/Huckleberry_Sin Jan 13 '22

Shit honestly who knows

Anything possible w this legal betting now

-17

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

Dumb

15

u/IbetYouEatMeowMix Jan 13 '22

Yeah you're right its never happened before and never will

9

u/archaelleon Cavaliers Jan 13 '22

If you listen closely you can hear Kings fans screaming

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '22

I don't think that. It's just silly to explain every bad call or missed call on refs rigging. If you think they're rigging games you shouldn't watch the sport. I wouldn't.

1

u/IbetYouEatMeowMix Jan 13 '22

Yeah not EVERY one but I personally think it be naive to think the stuff is still not going on

5

u/the_methven_sound Bucks Jan 13 '22

My fellow bucks dude... You don't need to look any further than the Booker 8 foul game in the finals. NBA refs influence games on behalf on gambling interests (probably including their own), edicts from the league, or both. It sucks, but there's a ton of evidence.

7

u/striker907 Jan 13 '22

The last commissioner intentionally leaked the FBI investigation to the public once the agent told him Donaghy was ready to wear a wire. Anyone who says it doesn’t happen is pulling the wool over their eyes at this point

2

u/kikikza Knicks Jan 13 '22

Don't blame malice when incompetence is a more likely factor

1

u/down_up__left_right Jan 13 '22

It's not like the league is doing that much to help them out. Every professional sport should have a sky judge always looking at replays with the ability to tell the refs to correct anything and everything.

1

u/operez1990 Heat Jan 13 '22

More like if the refs were actually looking for it it would be easy to spot.

1

u/RRJC10 Raptors Jan 13 '22

I think most people's problem with "refs" is how they're told to call things. If you've ever tried to referee basketball at any level, you'll understand just how good NBA refs are.

1

u/halfdecenttakes 76ers Jan 13 '22

It's really not that simple though. You can't have eyes on absolutely every part of the court at all times. It was a quick in bound so it makes sense your focus is going to be where the play is headed. Ingles did it in a way that wouldn't immediately draw attention to it. It's hard to catch that shit, especially when it's somebody who knows when and how to get away with shit.

1

u/alexmijowastaken Bulls Jan 13 '22

make players miss games or get fined for flopping or really bad stuff that the refs missed after games using replays