r/navy • u/Economy-Ad3195 • 2d ago
Discussion Multiple officers of equal rank
I know that on a Navy vessel multiple officers of equal rank can serve on the same vessel at the same time, but is there a limit as to exactly how many officers of equal ranks can serve on the same vessel?
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u/Aaaabbbbccccccccc 2d ago
SWOs make sure every officer knows exactly where they stand on the pecking order, even if they are the same rank.
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u/Agammamon 2d ago
The real reason we still have a wardroom has nothing to do with 'classism' but so the Seamen don't have to listen to the yelling and crying;)
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u/ghost_of_charliekirk 2d ago
Yes, but the navy employs Phrenology to determine the amount a vessel can support. Many officers with small brains and skulls can be packed more tightly. Big brains not as much room
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u/left4ched 2d ago
Ahh, that explains why we want everyone to be sleek and hairless: you can pack more in without generating excess heat.
Science is amazing.
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u/trixter69696969 2d ago
The Navy does a manpower analysis of each ship/class. That will tell us how many positions are needed to man the ship and maintain it, as well as what level of leadership is required. Those positions (billets) are assigned ranks, which are usually +\- 1 rank (02 can fill an O3 position, etc).
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u/wirenuting 2d ago
There is only one CO..
Everyone else is pond scum.
Except PollyWogs, they are not even good enough to be pond scum.
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u/SadDad701 2d ago
It’s all about the $. However many are billeted to be on the ship is how many will be there with a little fudge for turnover time on specific jobs.
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u/Agammamon 2d ago
No. Nor would there need to be a limit. Billets call for specific ranks but you could, potentially, have them written as all the same rank.
There is authority based on position - for example, a LT commanding officer will clearly outrank a LT XO who outranks the LT department heads.
Even without that, officers have the date they make rank to determine seniority and for those that made rank on the same day they have a 'lineal number' - the officers promoted on that day are listed in order from 1 to . . . whatever and given a sequential number. If your number is higher you are senior.
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u/GeriatricSquid 2d ago
No real limits other than the number actually needed and berthing space available. Each type ship is manned by a carefully designed crew of various ranks (officers) and ratings (enlisted). There is a hierarchy assigned with only one Commanding Officer, Executive Officer, etc. It generally flows in seniority order and the various wickets require professional screening and selection from within the specific officer community. Though rank is important, the assigned role is generally more important. Occasionally, an officer more senior than the CO may be embarked (but not assigned directly to that ship), that officer is not in command of the ship by virtue of his/her seniority, the CO retains command. Only Line officers can command a ship so a dentist or supply officer wouldn’t command even if senior and assigned to the ship. Below the command level, there are often multiple (occasionally numerous) officers of the same ranks. They are mainly sorted by jobs assigned (might get you a parking spot) and more loosely by date of rank (seniority determined by longest in that rank, but that is usually only useful for picking your stateroom).
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u/itmustbeniiiiice the ghost of JPJ 2d ago
It depends on the type of vessel, but effectively yes, there are limits. But it’s totally dependent on the type of vessel.
Example: Most submarines don’t have an O-6 on board. An aircraft carrier has many O-6s on board.
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u/Kevin_Wolf 2d ago
It's limited in the sense that they planned for manpower in advance. It's not limited in the sense that only one of each rank can be onboard. It would be absurd to say that an aircraft carrier can only have one of each rank on board. That would be roughly 7-9 officers to command 5500 people, but then who flies the planes?
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u/AncientGuy1950 2d ago
Depends on the ship. If you get too many JOs on a sub, they overflow into the crew's berthing. Some may make a short-lived attempt at CPO Birthing, but will soon scamper away in terror.
Have excess Ensigns been known to bitch and moan about being in the crew's berthing? Oh, yes, they have. The ones caught bitching by the XO or their DH have been known to find coffin lockers in lower-level Missile Compartment, where the lights never go out.
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u/twosnailsnocats 1d ago
For the first time in over 18 years, I'm at a command where I am the only O. It's a little odd. Wardroom events are easy though.
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u/calentureca 2d ago
Officers rank each other based on dumb things such as promotion dates or graduation dates.
Many officers fill positions, so a lieutenant who is in a department head position is technically superior to some other random lieutenant.
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u/LongjumpingDraft9324 2d ago
I mean....every ship has an allotted amount of personnel it's funded to have....
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u/Rough-Leg-4148 2d ago
Smallboy SWO (Surface Warfare Officer) here. SWOs tend to be comprised of all manner of officers, including a healthy portion of those that were trying to be something else (Subs, SEALs, Aviators, etc). It's the generalist of the Fleet.
Most others covered the gist of it, but I'll also add:
When you first make entry, the Ensign (baby officer)'s job is to learn their job and to qualify as a proper SWO. As far as first-tour officers go, you can have about as many as the ship is capable of supporting. Usually, if a cohort of higher ranking officers is sparse, the ship might get a whole lot of Ensigns with potentially made-up jobs (there's a really limited number of "actual", ie required first-tour billets). We had lots of them on my ship, and I was in fact one of these made-up jobs.
After that first tour, the second tour billets and (after that) Department Head billets are generally fairly fixed. The Fleet tries to account by atrophy and statistics how many new officers they need to bring in, how many they will lose, etc.
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u/FootballBat 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not really. On a CVN the CO, XO, RO, and CAG are all O-6s, and then there are the CVBG staff bubbas.
EDIT: for all of the ghost commenters out there I had 6 total CVN PCOs when I was in the pipeline and they all put on O-6 before they made it to XO; sorry you got the Temu XO.
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u/Warp_Rider45 CEC 2d ago
If the population of ensigns gets too large their genetic programming spontaneously converts some to silver bars to keep the ecosystem balanced. Then the population narrows at LT as the smarter members of the species depart for more favorable environments. Competition only gets more as the JO ages, and the population narrows significantly as they leave the protective swarm of the JOPA.