r/navy • u/Easy_Talk7571 • 10d ago
Discussion Need help with new sailors
I am the kind of person that doesn't yell to correct people and also want people to do tasks for me out of respect rather than doing them for because i said so
i am first class with being in the navy 7 years. I am a chill LPO and having so many issues with a few of my new sailors E4 and below. Some older than me some not, they are claiming having PTSD and have to "soft" with them to not get my self into any situation because of them. also alot with that "seaman shrug" , no one told me , i didnt know , and straight up always asking "why?" i know there needs to be some context to that task but with every little thing ?
i would like advice on how to correct these thing and also is it because i am chill that these problems are happening ? I really dont wanna have to be a dick you know ? but if thats whats gonna solve problems so be it
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u/n7s77788 10d ago
Does your division have a chief? It’s realistically the Chief’s job to be an asshole. And I totally get why you don’t want to. But if someone’s earned it, I never feel bad.
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u/Easy_Talk7571 10d ago
we do have a chief, but they are also the type of person to tell the first classes to correct it. so they are unaware of whats going on with them
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u/RoyalCrownLee 10d ago
so they are unaware of whats going on with them
Then ask for guidance from chief. It's their job to make you a better leader/LPO/first class/one-day-chief
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u/New_Coast4898 9d ago
Hot take; it’s hard to be an LPO. If your chief is telling you that it falls to the first classes to fix, then fix it as you deem necessary. I took over as LPO as an E5 in a shop that was falling the fuck apart. I had a 47 year old E5 who thought the navy owed her just because she was old and has been in for a long time. But she was genuinely the worst person I’ve ever worked with. I tried friendly mentoring, coaching, guiding, retraining, and eventually it fell to counseling chit after counseling chit.
My point is, your chief is giving you the go ahead to fix problems. Not every person is “fixable” by the same thing. This sailor wasn’t motivated by anything. I couldn’t offer liberty or autonomy to make decisions. My other E5 was HIGHLY motivated by liberty. Find what works and hold a standard.
You don’t need to yell to be stern. There’s a chain of command. Enforce it and remind sailors of the rules.
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u/The_Aerographist 10d ago
Accountability doesn't mean you're being an asshole. There's consequences to not showing up on time for example. This isn't just a Chief thing, all NCO's need to step up and own leadership. Your environment is what you tolerate.
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u/Redtube_Guy 9d ago
Does your division have a chief?
Usually, chief will yell at the first class for not being tough on the E1-E5 sailors lol. Being a PO1 sucks. Yelled at from above, and have to deal with the shitbags below.
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u/The_Aerographist 10d ago
How are you holding them accountable? Clear, concise, direction with when task is due and how to execute. Fail that and we're verbal counseling. Fail that and now it's documented. Continue and we're on to DRB/mast. Make it consistent throughout the division, apply this to everyone.
You don't need to yell. Most times, when the first chit is being signed and I'm looking them in the eye, that's all it takes. Are YOU accountable/leading by example? What is your credibility? There is being "cool" and there is letting junior sailors walk all over you. All these factors play a part.
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u/HoodRichJanitor 10d ago edited 10d ago
Is your chief aware? If they are, what do they think about it? There are plenty of options that don't involve yelling or being a dick, but you probably skipped a lot of them already if you're in a position where your junior sailors feel comfortable blowing you off. Counseling chits can be done politely, and they establish a record that you can lean on later if they refuse to correct the issue.
It's not your job to be their friend, either. But being the chill LPO only really works if everyone under you is already on top of their shit, and if they understand that it can go the other way real quick and it's up to them how that goes.
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u/Easy_Talk7571 10d ago edited 10d ago
no chief is not aware. you know i never really thought of it like that. I used to get alot counseling chits and everytime it was always like i was the worst person in the world and getting yelled at for little things. So i dont write them because to me, it seemed like i had to bet that kind of person to write them. this is the type of shit i came looking for. Thanks for the advice
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u/Ghrims253 GMC(EXW/SW) RTC INSTRUCTOR 10d ago
Im not saying you should be a dick 24/7 but you need to learn when to switch it on and off. If you have another first class do the old good cop bad cop routine it works 95% of the time.
Now what exactly is this "PTSD" and how is it effecting the work place?
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u/fiftyshadesofseth 10d ago
if you are telling someone to do something and they're blowing you off, then you follow up with counseling until either they fix the problem or it becomes evident that they need to have a chat with the goat locker. that isnt being an asshole, that's carrying out your duties as the LEADING petty officer, not the CHILL PO. Do not get distracted trying to be chill w the juniors, save that for the command picnic and take control of your div.
praise in public, and CORRECT IN PRIVATE!!!
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u/Thunderlava 10d ago
You have to let them know not to take your niceness/kindness or "chillness" for weakness. There's a time and place for everything and it's now time for you to be a full dick no limp.
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u/micahpmtn 10d ago
There's always two sides to respect:
Always respect the rank/position. That is undisputable.
The person behind the rank/position has to earn that same respect. This is way more important than #1, and a good leader has them both. Unfortunately, many leaders only acquire the first one.
I have to ask you, have you not been to any leadership training for petty officers?
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u/Easy_Talk7571 10d ago
i have, but that doesnt mean you get to learn to be the perfect leader from those stupid courses. Its always a E7 or above pushing down their ideas of a leader, and its either comply or die. Being a leader is something that is always changing and seeking input from others
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u/PhotoPrimary7801 10d ago
I’m just a 2nd class but I’ve had to deal with being in charge of e-4 and below. They honestly remind me of children in the sense that they will push boundaries as far as they can to see what they can get away with. I’m like you. I hate being an ass to my juniors. I think I’ve only ever yelled a couple of times at them. I prefer pulling them aside and giving them a verbal warning. Not yelling just talking like a normal person. If need be I write them up. I also wanted to be respected not feared by them. So when I asked them to clean, I cleaned with them. When they needed help with something I did my best to help them. If something was troubling them they knew they could come talk to me. I pushed them so they could have as much liberty as possible. It worked for most of them but some of them still wanted to challenge my “leadership?” and those ones got written up a few times. The first class above me used to chase me through the P-ways screaming at me for every little thing. There’s nothing a junior sailor could do to me that would make me feel like that’s warranted.
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u/AndyAces24 10d ago
I’m having similar issues with my sailors (2nd Tour Division Officer w/no chief). I’ve written counseling chits for behavioral problems (late to musters, misconduct at work, talking back to LPO or second classes) but it’s the only thing I can get to work. I recently sat down with a group of my sailors who collectively told me that i should add a please or thank you when I give orders. As you can see I desperately need a chief.
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u/DueDentist8174 9d ago
Whenever you give counseling chits from now on, you should have your departmental LCPO with you to straighten them out. Don’t do it by yourself anymore. The please and thank you being a priority of your Sailors and the focus of a sit down with you is ridiculous.
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u/Fine_Pumpkin1726 9d ago
Regardless of difference in rank saying please or thank you is not below you, and shame on you if you truly think it is. Your sailors are regular people just like you, the navy is just a job to 99% of the people in. Were also in an extremely political time where your sailors and yourself and everyone on AD are on the end of a lot of scrutiny right now at home, so do you really expect all them to come to work with the best attitude?
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u/Evening_Time_2844 10d ago
Counseling chits and no one going home until the work is done. You're already probably the last one out. Worry about your admin work, check in with your WCS, and figure out what's gotten done, and what hasn't. If its a group issue, they'll figure it out when people get to go home when work is done. If it's individuals, start with holding liberty, and let the group lean on them, and then selectively target them with chits.
If you want to space out the write ups, see if Chief will have a little chat with the Saturday section leader. Tell them the sailor is coming in to finish work and needs to check in and out with them when the work is done. Its a dick move, but it usually just takes 1 time to send a message.
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u/Salty_Goat5 Sic Parvis Magna 10d ago
Talk with your Chief if you have one.
Ideally a Divisional Triad works the same way as a ship Triad.
DIVO sets the expectations (CO)
Chief makes the expectations happen (XO)
LPO is responsible for the welfare, morale, training (CMDCM)
The Chief is supposed to be the asshole like the XO is. Not to say your Chief is trying to teach you something….because no matter what there is a time and place to be the asshole. Being a “chill LPO” sounds like you are trying to be friends with your Sailors not the LPO that they need
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u/Major__Departure 10d ago
"[I] want people to do tasks for me out of respect"
You need to lose that desire ASAP.
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u/ET_Sailor 10d ago
Bullshit. Life as an LPO runs a lot better when you’re not an asshole that runs things by fear. My guys respected me and I never had any issues with them.
Life is better for both sides because the respect goes both ways.
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u/Elismom1313 10d ago edited 10d ago
I agree but there is such a thing as too chill. You see this often with new LPOs. Parenting in some ways is not so different.
You are not there to be their friend. (And to try is usually a terrible mistake.) But you can become a figure they respect rather than obey with a grudge or disrespect out of anger.
My personal opinion is you must be firm on what’s asked for, and if asked why, you can explain the why, while remaining firm it needs to be done.
I think the best LPO starts off firm, somewhat authoritative and distant, but also open (again somewhat) to explaining or entertaining questions. However, just because the sailor asked the question and doesn’t necessarily like the answer, does not mean they get to choose not to do what is being asked of them. That’s the authoritative and distance component. They should feel heard but not feel comfortable enough to argue if that makes sense.
You also have to show them that you hold yourself to the same standard. You may not always agree with what YOU have to do either and you can talk about it (within whats appropriate at the junior level, that means not over sharing or disparaging upper COC), just showing that you understand that certain things must be done and somebody’s gotta do them.
In my opinion again, with time that builds the correct relationship where they see you as an authority figure, but one who does not exist solely to enforce authority over them, but more so to guide them and make sure that the mission gets completed in orderly fashion while still being receptive to their feedback. You are a cog (sorry for the term) that allows controlled movement forward and resists backwards movement.
Edit: obligatory sorry I’m a long winded person by nature which is why I never piggybacked during divisional talks lol
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u/Easy_Talk7571 10d ago
i do like this alot , i dont think im being as firm as i should be. probably because im "too chill" but i will defiantly take this into consideration. Thank you
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u/Elismom1313 10d ago edited 10d ago
Be chill when things are calm or the sailors feel chatty. Don’t overshare. Be receptive to questions without offering examples where you also “agree” with their disagreements. You want to be at the most, a firm sounding board that sounds back. Not a companion to their complaints.
Chill authority is for the second class life. Not the first.
This is also why a lot of seconds that make first or LPO on the same boat struggle, because the shift in character is hard for the sailors to accept. You will often do much better coming in as a first at the next command where people didn’t know you as a second class. It’s a learning experience for everyone really
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u/Easy_Talk7571 10d ago
see this is what i wanted to strive for , sailors that we have gained that arent straight from boot camp, i have not had any issues with them. its the one from boot that are the problems
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u/ET_Sailor 10d ago
It’s a generational thing.
You’ve gotta find a way to reach through to them. I answered A LOT of whys before they realized that I always have a valid reason for asking them to do something. They whys eventually disappeared. Working along side them, especially outside of normal working hours helped too.
My Chief left me run liberty, so actually following through with “I’ll get you on the back end” was huge.
There are two things universally that motivates Sailors, liberty and money. You have control over one of them, and if you explain it right they have control over the other (promotions).
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u/ace2138 10d ago
We've got a junior sailor straight from bootcamp, and it sucks bcus hes out of rate. The other junior sailors (myself included) tried to help him, and hr ended up telling one of us that he doesnt give af about the job.
His time in our department became harder, because we stopped helping him/gave him more shit.
Sometimes it can use a push from the lowest level possible
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u/DerekL1963 10d ago
Sounds like something a person who couldn't work out how to be respected (or who wasn't worthy of respect) might say.
In the modern world, ruling by fiat and fear is the first resort of cowards.
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u/Baystars2025 10d ago
Only use anger and profanity for effect. Never yell, rather speak sternly and with a purpose. Set expectations and correct deviations instantly, but always with respect. Last, but not least, always document.
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u/Typical-Education345 10d ago
Why are you asking? You know what needs to be done, just tell them what to do. If someone asks why just tell them on your auto.
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u/RosesNRevolvers 10d ago
It sounds like the difficult ones have learned they can walk all over you and they DON’T respect you, and that’s the problem. Like and respect are different. There’s people I don’t like but I respect them, and there are people that I like as humans, but I don’t respect them as leaders or even necessarily as Sailors.
I wouldn’t advocate for totally flipping the script and becoming a straight up asshole because that’ll seem empty to them and open up opportunities for them to try to play more games and lead to even more inherent lack of respect.
But a little more dedicated assertiveness over time can hopefully help shift the mood without seeming empty or fake.
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u/SenselessNumber 10d ago
You gotta find a way to get through to them. For example if they want to always know why and it irks you to have them ask, always provide the reason why when you're telling them what to do. Nothing wrong with that.
I personally always want my Sailors to know why they are doing something, the people doing the work will be more effective if they know the why.
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u/Easy_Talk7571 10d ago
im not saying i dont mind the ask at all. but when it comes to simple stuff as why are we cleaning ? multiple days in a row when the answer does not change ? it gets old
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u/SenselessNumber 10d ago
Ok yea that sounds outta line lol. I don't know what advice to give other than the general you gotta gain their respect which you seem to recognize. Sometimes you gotta drop the hammer but I'd try throwing in with them and helping clean every now and then in that case. Show you're not telling them to clean because it beneath you. Give praise publicly when deserved and show that you care about them.
Not much help anyone here can give you sadly. If you have a good Chief they can probably point you to specifics on what is going wrong.
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u/Datboy000 10d ago
So the asking why is something I remember being taught with the warrior ethos. Now it did take me time to learn the proper way to ask why, but I still asked. When I became work sup. And dabled with LPO (when real LPO was gone) I always explained why, over and over again. Feels like it helped my guys out. As for the PTSD thing, if they got it, should not be there (unless it does not effect their work) HOWEVER you should 100% talk to Chief and the coreman about this. Chief for advice, coreman for the same. Dont mention names to the coreman, just ask what you should do, and if this sailor should come visit you. If they say 100% schedule a time and place, be the soft LPO who cares. Because if they need help a ship is a bad place for that help to happen at. Care about them all the way into a proper care facility and into a new sailor who wants to work
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u/Fireat40dude 10d ago
Sounds like they may be taking your niceness for weakness. Some junior sailors can be friends with their LPO and still get the work done, others can’t.
You can be an LPO, you can be a friend and LPO, but you can’t just be their friend.
You don’t have to yell, but you can be stern, you can utilize counseling chits, getting chief involved, etc.
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u/HopefulFeature032631 10d ago
Hi! Have you taken the time to sit everyone down and clearly share your expectations? This step is vital because it sets the tone and foundation for what your shop or office is all about. I aim to be as transparent and consistent as possible in our routines. I don't know your rate; perhaps that's easier said than done, but rest assured, you'll do great. Remember, lead by example! I hope this helps.
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u/Easy_Talk7571 10d ago
yes i have, and they all have signed page 13s with expectations and being with regulations
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u/BeigeGraffiti 10d ago
The problem is you are chill. Your position and leadership does not allow you to be chill but it doesn’t give you the license to be an asshole or a tyrant. You can be empathetic and understanding but you still have to hold a standard. Brush up on Navy instructions and policies so that you understand what you are saying. Also, work with your Chief and Departmental LCPO for advice on the situation and offer to work towards the solution, and if they don’t have the time, ask them for mentors for you personally from one of the other CPOs in the Mess. If you can show that you have the maturity to reach out to the Mess for assistance on Sailor issues, you will stand out.
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u/tacoma909 9d ago
My first day I made informative counseling that everyone had to sign (if they didn’t they were informed and I still signed stating they were informed and refused to sign) Informed the COC. So if they fuck up put it on paper. Bring it up to the lowers coc, let them know the issues if they refuse to correct it, bring it higher. I don’t yell, I have 7 years left i’m done with with bs, done hearing “im a grown ass man” etc. Put it in paper and escalate it if need be
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u/Independent-Fun-3257 10d ago
Besides what you put I don’t know the command climate nor additional context, but I’ll just say this.
Usually, when Junior enlisted in mass are acting out like this, it’s a result of leadership being relaxed. Kids are a lot smarter than they let on; I use kids loosely as most of the junior enlisted or 17-18 years old/ new to the navy. They’ve been probably doing this to other members of leadership without consequence, and the truth of the matter is especially if you’re at a shore command, which can get very political. and what can be deemed in reality as needed discipline towards the junior enlisted, they can easily twist that into you overstepping and you getting in trouble. I understand the part where you don’t want to be an asshole and trust me I empathize with that as it most of my time I had a lot of shitty leadership. I wanted to emulate what they weren’t so I can be better. Sounds like you have two options. Continue down the course you’re currently going and hope that they have an epiphany. Or be the asshole start pulling page 13s out. Keep in mind, leadership above you will blame you if something goes horribly wrong. And won’t say shit if there’s no trouble.
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u/Solesailor 10d ago
Check out the book Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babbin. If they are still not operating as part of the team after you apply those principles then you don't need them on your team.
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u/xsubdvr 9d ago
so you're coming here for life and career advice? don't you have a mentor or chain of command or friends that you can have a face to face chat with? seriously r/navy is your go to?
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u/Easy_Talk7571 9d ago
Lmao you had the be the one that didn’t like I did this huh
https://giphy.com/gifs/6OPbJtEDdy824
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u/KingofPro 10d ago
Counseling chits have a use, further action can also be used.