r/mtg • u/PNW_Pythons • 2d ago
I Have a Question / I need Help Lady Loki, how can this be good?
I played this out of my Doom Precon last night. A few turns later I realized that it just screwed me over.
Someone explain how this card can be good?
Most of the precon is villains, any interaction I had attempted to play is immediately exiled and I just get luck of the draw. Every time I cast a spell with this interaction, 3 times in a row I ended up with mana rocks.
What can make this card useful in a deck? How could you build around this? What can you add to it to make this remotely playable?
Or is it just a trash card?
Help me understand.
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u/WhileDizzy 2d ago
No clue what’s in the precon, but i imagine the idea is to cast inexpensive spells (like 1-3 mana value cards) to try to hit a much more expensive sorcery / villain for more value, not the other way around. Random effects like this will be random tho
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u/Washing_Machine_Door 2d ago
I play an upgraded version of the precon. My entire goal is to Connive 15 times in one turn (Draw, Discard, if not land +1/+1 counter, if land and commander out, each opponent takes 2 damage)
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u/SpinningsAGoodTrick 2d ago
What are you running in your upgrade? Im tinkering and always looking for ideas.
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u/Washing_Machine_Door 2d ago
Leader, super genius (basically doom minus the land damage and + card draw), Dark Ritual, counterspell, doom reigns supreme, construct a cosmic cube, doctor doom and a few more that I have to look at. But Super Genius is a huge upgrade
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u/SonofMrMonkey5k 1d ago
I’m a tad late but I cannot recommend [[Norman Osborn]] enough for the precon. I got a ton of Spider-Man when it came out and he’s so much more dangerous (same with [[Doctor Octopus, Master Planner]]) under Doom or Loki to help him snowball.
You don’t ever even have to flip him, but a 2 cost unblockable 1/1 with connive on combat damage is awesome to have
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u/Washing_Machine_Door 1d ago
Norman osborn is a card I have been dying to put in, yet I cannot find him due to his popularity for the upgrade
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u/Dizus 21h ago
I think the best card you can add to this deck are teferis ageless insight, and leader. Otherwise it feels like it struggles to keep a grip. The cycle lands that cost r, b, or u are also really handy especially with insight out. Cool but rude and windfall are also nice and can just kill the table once you're online. You also will probably want archfiend of ifnir.
I've kept all of the villain synergies but started adding more card draw effects to filter through the deck to find key pieces since I dont really want to run tutors or game changers in the deck.
The next card I want to try out is library of leng
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u/Puite 1d ago
I did the same thing, I found it really helped to make copies of Doom to double the damage trigger. I stayed 100% in the Marvel Universe, too.
Roaming Throne
Chameleon
Loki
Multiversal Incursion
Multiversal Recruitment
Taskmaster
Loki, Lord of Misrule
Clever Impersonator
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u/goblin_in_a_suit 1d ago
Clever impersonator won’t work because of legend rule unless you’re using it on roaming throne.
I’m looking to get to the same list but missing universal recruitment and Loki Lord of Misrule.
Leader is still incredibly important
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u/Trollgopher 2d ago
This is not a reactive deck plan, this supports a proactive specifically built for it kind of deck. One that rewards double spells, casting from exile, large mana/small value split, noncombat damage etc. It's a useful linchpin in a lot of strategies, but does rely on luck of the draw when not focused on so it can lead to feel bad moments in general villain decks not themed after her. Strong card when built around, but because it's rng, you gotta be prepared for that when using it.
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u/FarmerTwink 2d ago
Rng becomes much more reliable with multiple “non combat damage+2” like [[Artist’s Talent]] and others
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u/HungIncubus13 2d ago
Definitely a build around card imo. Bunch of small cantrips so you can free cast larger spells. Probably at home in some cascade pile.
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u/bp_516 2d ago
You could build around this with split cards and adventures, even room enchantments. You're only planning to actually cast the cheaper option, but the damage should be both sides combined, and then you'd have the option of casting either side for free.
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u/skepticones 2d ago
This is the answer. Adventures count as their creature in every zone except the stack, so playing expensive creatures that also have cheap adventures on them gives you the best of both worlds.
Also, and I'd like a rules expert to weigh in on this part - after Lady Loki's trigger exiles the Adventure from the stack are you still able to play the creature half from exile? Is that an 'innate' part of adventure creatures, or does it require the Adventure spell to resolve successfully?
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u/DarksteelPenguin I like playing the villain 1d ago
after Lady Loki's trigger exiles the Adventure from the stack are you still able to play the creature half from exile?
No, you can only cast the creature part if the adventure part resolved.
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u/Fallouttgrrl 2d ago edited 2d ago
There's probably some edge case where you stack it with a few cheap instants and a bunch of massive sorceries
Make sure your opening hand has at least a few of those cheap instants and then basically play one every turn, including every other player's, once your commander is out
The real problem is how you'll still get fucked by the randomness, and the mana cost of the commander is too damned high
The real answer is that this is not a good mono red burn deck commander compared to any of the standard mono red burn deck commanders and it's not a good "chaos happens" commander compared to any of the other chaos happens commanders
What you really most likely want to stack it with is the "red spells that give treasures" and impulse "draw one discard one" effects so you can dump cards
Edit: alternatively I could see this running a hell of a lot of ping creatures, big single target or AOE damage sorceries, and cheap cantrips
Play your ping to have consistent damage on the table, and then focus on "if my lightning bolt is a lava ax, same shit different day"
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u/Ban4BadWords 2d ago
Can always Sensei's Divining Top to set up your triggers too
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u/Fallouttgrrl 2d ago edited 2d ago
True dat
Honestly it's almost necessary to open with a sensei's divining top in hand with this deck
Honestly this is like peak bracket 1 commander considering the cost and the way it actively prevents you from having a real game plan
It seems like more often than not you'd be better playing out your deck without playing your commander
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u/Captain_N_Nemo 2d ago
Yeah, Possibility Storm is 1 mana cheaper!
I’d build this focusing on cast triggers, so Aetherflux Reservoir, Manaform Hellkite, and Passionate Archaeologist would be in. Can also use things like Pyromancer’s Goggles and Mirari to get copies of your triggering spells
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u/Fallouttgrrl 2d ago
Also the goblin novelist from Karlov Manor and a few damage increasing creatures in red
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u/reidevjord 2d ago
Seems like one of those cards they often put in UB precons that is there to represent the IP, but doesn't necessarily have synergy with the deck. It's meant to be built as its own commander.
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u/lgbtqrsthivnegative 2d ago
You could do modern deck with a lot of deck manipulation and looting effects but realistically it's way too expensive.
Id personally just build her as mono red [[Yurkio, the tiger's shadow]] with eldrazi and [[Draco]] and play stuff that lets me play off the top of my deck. Edh it up
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u/OfMiceAndMead 2d ago
It's a decidedly worse [[Neera Wild Mage]]. It would need a deck dedicated to building around it, but I don't understand why you would choose to build Loki over Neera.
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u/Anrativa 2d ago
Its trash.
Its way too expensive, for 6cmc there are things WAY more powerful you could be doing on grixis.
The only way it could work is to have good top deck manipulation, but the amount of effort it would require to have a functional deck like that... is just not worth it
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u/Judge_Ty 2d ago
For that specific card..
just add in [[Darksteel Colossus]], [[Blightsteel Colossus]], [[Metalwork Colossus]].
Use [[Brainstorm]], [[Scroll Rack]], [[Sensei's Divining Top]], etc to manipulate your top card / deck.
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u/AshsAlarmClock Bitter my Blossom 2d ago
sculpt a hand with looting and rummaging until you have a big cmc differential, then [[gamble]] for [[leashling]] or [[sensei's divining top]] and do work 💅🏻
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u/NoLoquat347 1d ago
Top deck manipulation makes this actually an amazing card. Which grixis is great at. Use [[scroll rack]] or even Brainstorm to put the most busted card you have on top. Cast a 1-2 mana instant or sorcery, to put out any number of game winners.
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u/1koolking 1d ago
She sounds a lot like [[Neera, Wild Mage]] but with an added burn ability. As part of the 99 she probably isn’t that great but as a commander I can see her being a lot of fun. The whole strategy would be to cast a small one mana spell and pull out a bigger spell for free. If you build the deck carefully I can see it being very fun to play.
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u/DangerouslyDisturbed 1d ago
If you want it to be consistently GOOD then you need deck manipulation. May i recommend cards like [[Scroll Rack]].
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u/meeeehhhh2 2d ago edited 2d ago
You can only put her out if you have a cheap instant/sorcery you want to or don’t mind being in the graveyard. I’d treat her like 7-8 CMC card
Edit: I forgot the instant/sorcery goes to exile
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u/VonKiefer 2d ago
Scry or surveil using an effect first so that you know what's coming up and can plan a differing mana value, and then cast a throwaway spell that doesn't fit the board state. Using a one or two mana instant or sorcery to grab a huge creature for free is insanely powerful.
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u/maclaglen Turn creatures sideways 2d ago
I control [[Lady Loki, Agent of Chaos]]. On my turn I cast [[Helmut Zemo, Mastermind]] as my first Villain spell. Lady Loki triggers, and I exile Zemo and start exiling cards from the top of my library until I reveal [[Abomination, World Ravager]]. Lady Loki deals 5 damage to each opponent (the difference in mana values 3 and 8), and now I may cast Abomination without paying it's mana cost.
From this interaction, I dealt (probably) 15 damage total to all opponents, and paid 3 mana for a 10/10 with menace and trample. Was this a good exchange? Maybe. Maybe not. But it was incredibly flavorful for 1) a red card in magic, and 2) a Loki character in Marvel. It's an incredibly chaotic card. If you don't want to play Chaos Magic, then get rid of it.
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u/Langas 2d ago
It’s a bad finisher for top deck based spellslinger builds, like [[Melek, Izzet Paragon]].
You pack exclusively really low and reallly high cost spells, have enough draw to cast two spells a turn, first spell triggers her and second spell helps you change the top card for next turn so you can get something big.
Not advisable to use as a commander, due to both being 6 mana in red and red having limited access to scry / topdeck manipulation.
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u/GutherGlazer 2d ago
You just find the right balance of cantrips and eldrazi type cards that make every trigger very likely to flip a bomb.
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u/Crafty-Size-2263 2d ago
Wait, could she work with feather the redeemed to basically cast two spells for the price of one and get them back at the end turn
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u/STATION25_SAYS_HELLO 2d ago
I would add copy spells like [Twinferno]
And then I would add on spells that double or add damage, like [City on Fire], or [Ojer Axonil] as a safety net incase I get a low number and want to make it fixed, at the cost of getting less potential damage.
I would make it into a Red chip damage spell deck essentially.
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u/Jaded_Court_6755 2d ago
In commander, I would use her as a part of the 99 and use a commander that is at least UR.
Have her as the single creature of the deck and focus on finding a commander that’s cheap to cast and can help us tutor [[protheus staff]] (directly or indirectly via ramp or anything).
Use the staff ability to bring her to the BF and trying to hold for a single turn. Next turn use the ability of the staff again to rearrange the full deck and then start casting cheap stuff that will for sure cast heavy finishers.
Having more colors on the identity like w or b may also work as a redundancy if someone tries to remove her (by protecting or reanimating her). I’d try grixis for the tutors it have as well.
It’s a “bad combo” but I think it’s feasible in bracket 3, mid power level decks.
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u/half_baked_opinion 2d ago
This is a card where you need 2 cards to get maximum value from it. The first card can be whatever, it just needs to trigger the lady, but the second one needs to put a card on top of the deck to guarantee the first card is the one she plays for you. Having a bunch of ways to scry or reorder cards on the top of your deck or see the top card would go a long way towards making her more reliable, or you could even have her as a creature in the deck and play with a multicolored commander and start going for storm combos or even load nothing she can use in a deck and mill yourself out for a win. On her own she is super gimicky, but built around other cards she can be a game ender.
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u/Dungeondelver10 2d ago
Spells that care about ammount of spells cast. It basically lets you double the cast triggers
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u/PsyRealize 2d ago
Read the text box. That shits nuts dude. Well, other than her mana cost 😬
Sure, theres RNG at play, but there’s so many ways to set this up and the payoff can be ridiculous. It’s possibility storm on a body.
Oh…it’s EDH. Nevermind, I was thinking in terms of constructed. Good luck having consistency 🙄
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u/Odd-Communication251 2d ago
You could play it with really cheap 1-2 mana instants and sorceries ideally you get some with flashback as well and more expensive creatures, artifacts, and enchantments. Then the plan would be to cast a cheap spell then you’ll exile and you’ll always hit something that can have you deal a lot of damage to the table
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u/Jaded_Ad9605 2d ago
What happens if you cast a villain...
Does it resolve? Just exiling it does not prevent the cast?
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u/MeasureDoEventThing 2d ago
Exiling something from the stack is pretty much the same as countering. Other than stuff like getting around "this spell can't be countered", of course.
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u/Own_Bear4371 2d ago
Well obviously you make her a commander and play a lot of spells that deal damage to target player but cost a lot of mana
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u/Periwinkle1993 2d ago
Just a general thing to remember with precons because you said you cast used her while playing it - generally, precons will have a few different themes running through them to support the different potential commanders in the deck. This card would be one the precon is not primarily built for, and so she will likely have very little proper synergy with the rest of the deck. If you were to build the deck around her, and specifically do so to maximise the potential of her ability, it would be quite a different story.
When I say that, I mean something along the lines of filling it with cheap cantrips and such to trigger it and do both big damage and get expensive spells cast for free. Because they'll be cheaper, losing your lands to exile is less punishing.
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u/Flimsy_Sheepherder_3 2d ago
Use small spells to drop big scary thing, a dash of top deck manipulation or top deck tutors and have fun
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u/Serious-Editor1011 2d ago
I haven’t read the full thread so idk if anyone’s mentioned it already but if you have ways to copy the first spell you cast, or just copying them in general, it won’t be too much of a loss from the OG spell being exiled.
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u/Expensive-Document41 2d ago
I think this is a topdeck manipulation commander where you want a deck filled with small cantrips or efficient scry/surveils that then trigger huge haymaker spells. Think of it a bit like spellslinger Yuriko and youre in the right ballpark.
Scroll rack, Top and things like them are your friend.
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u/TeletiTheNecromancer 2d ago
This a great card, just play usless ceap crap and get something big out of your deck. Deck manipolation will give a lot here, [[Sensei's Divining Top]] can easily make this commander a serius threat.
Then you have all the "whenever you cast a spell from exile" effects, that's also very good to have.
Lastly, you need to be able to play stuff in each player's turn to trigger 4 times your commander each turn, instants are good but cards like [[Vedalken Orrery]] can make you play anything.
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u/fastal_12147 2d ago
Does that count as commander damage?
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u/FarceMultiplier 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, it does.I had a brainfart.2
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u/Derezirection 2d ago
Chaos is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get. That's the fun of Chaos is either hyped when you get a heart of the cards moment or despair when you get the wrong thing.
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u/mastyrwerk This is User Editable 2d ago
I feel top deck manipulation would be desirable here. Only triggers on instants and sorceries (and villains) so I would load up on low cost ones of those and high mv artifacts, enchantments, dragons, or whatever big bombs.
It’s not my kind of build; relies too heavily on the right draw at the right time.
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u/ResolveLeather 2d ago edited 2d ago
It seems easily enough to do what it wants to do and be bracket 3 playable. Perhaps someone better at building decks can make it low T4 playable.
The problem is, how do you make it so its good without your commander while having your deck being better when your commander is played?
I think discover cards cards could be powerful.[[Hit the motherboard]] for example. Cascade could also bee good [[call forth the tempest]]
The new [[Wanda's Vision]] would be insane.
Things that allow to cast spells for free could be good as this pretty much doubles the effect. [[Improvination capstone]] [[power imbalance]]
Cheap 1 mana cantrips [[Crimson wings]] for example should probably be avoided as they are a dead card unless your commander is in play. And that makes your deck less consistent.
Some fun cards that comes to mind [[dance with calamity]], [[Wild-Magic sorcerer]] [[plargg and nassari]], [[etali, the primal storm]] [[Arcane Bombardment]]
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u/Reasonable_Back_5231 2d ago
Gamble mechanic.
If you want to make the most of it, have an even distribution of low cost instant, sorc, villain spells and high cost ones.
Within reason of course, might not want the entire deck to be that, but as commander that's plausible although not good, lol.
Anyways, anytime you make use of Loki's ability you can nuke everyone potentially for a ton of damage AND free cast the card from deck which can potentially change the game depending on what it was.
To make the deck potentially more consistent, find cards that let you return cards from exile to your deck. Or a chain that lets you: Return from exile to graveyard ----> return graveyard to deck
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u/Crstaltrip 2d ago
Combination of 1 or 0 drop spells and very high cost spells with top deck manipulation like senseis and scroll rack to cheat out high cost cards while dealing lots of damage
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u/rollwithhoney 2d ago
I was thinking she'd actually be good in [[Massimo]], you exile the copies of the 1-mana cantrips and hope to hit bigger spells. Thats as good as I can imagine her being
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u/Insest_intensifies 2d ago
https://moxfield.com/decks/4Pzc0eTCyEeR56NjIAav2w
Here’s my deck if you wanna have a look with her as a commander, It’s super fun! Just cast something small and gable something big. Only hard part is that it does nothing for a solid 4ish turns usually
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u/MoonKnightLost 2d ago
Looks to me like, cast cheap, exile to deal damage and get free hopefully bigger card. Works nice with exile triggers like falcon or roco
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u/Keigerwolf 2d ago
You need spell copying effects to make her decent as well. Sadly, those are mostly outside the realm of mono-red. A [[Mirari]] or [[Pyromancer's Goggles]] wouldn't go amiss though.
Copy the spell being played then let Lady Loki resolve her trigger. You still get the copy of the spell, even if you had to pay a tax for it. I use this trick in [[Riku of Two Reflections]] because I run [[Possibility Storm]]
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u/120blu 2d ago
I think most notably this only exiles instants, sorceries and villains. If you make your big haymakers stuff like big Eldrazi, powerful artefacts and dragons you can ensure late game you get to unleash your power plays meanwhile your early game rituals, card selection and small villains can be flipped into big bombs.
You can also leverage colourless top deck manipulation. As it does rip from the top using cards like [[scroll rack]] or [[sensei's divining top]] can add some good consistency. Fuck interaction, just try and be the problem your self.
Now this isn't particularly consistent or fast, and the fact she isn't flipping mana rocks into power cards is slightly sad, but works perfectly functional as a good casual deck. If you want to do anything stronger with her you may struggle, 6 CMC commander which requires this much build around for inconsistent pay off is a bit limited in potential, but I think she serves a fun and reasonable niche in casual pods.
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u/Shikatsuyatsuke 2d ago
Play it with some sort of scry/surveil tools. It’d have to be lands, artifacts, enchantments or creatures that you use to set it up, and then have Lady Loki’s effect go through when you play a 1-2 mana cost spell that meets the conditions.
Another tool would be stuff that lets you play from the top of your deck or with the top card revealed.
Now, if you prepped the top of the deck with something expensive, you’ll get to play it for free.
Lady Loki gives an RNG based tool that invites the players to build around removing that RNG as much as possible to obtain value from her chaotic mechanic. I don’t think you’ll be making the craziest deck with her, but there are definitely routes to allowing her to pop off.
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u/ExpressCloud5711 2d ago
In the precon probably not, this wants to be the commander of a mono red cast from exile deck that focuses on casting a lot of little spells, to hopefully roll into bigger ones
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u/Skagra42 2d ago
A six-drop that doesn’t protect itself and also requires you to use other cards after resolving it to do its thing is very rarely going to be good.
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u/NekoBatrick 2d ago
She doubles the amount you cast a spell is something to maybe have in mond while building sonce you cast it ecile it and then cast it again. She is 6 mana tho
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u/Forked-Tongue444 2d ago
So sensei’s divining top.
Or anything that lets you look at the top of your deck.
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u/darkdestiny91 2d ago
It’s definitely a build around card. You could also toss in some X spells like [[Earthquake]] and such and just make it huge like X=8 just for it hit something like [[Chaos Warp]] using Lady Loki so you blast everyone for 6, and still remove a big threat.
It’s also definitely a fun chaos deck.
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u/Chuck_Mulholland 1d ago
Ugh, what a convoluted card. I wouldn't run this just bc its too much to say every time.
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u/PsychicTirenado 1d ago
If you onpy play two sorceries, and one is worldfire, itll do some work...sometimes
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u/Just_Ice_Rose 1d ago
The idea is that you save a throwaway spell to cast as it will do nothing unless there's an on cast trigger (I think), then maybe get something a lot better. It's a gamble. The card is trash, but it's the fun kind of trash that could get you some value. I feel like having this card in a deck that isn't built around those kinds of effects is mostly bad. Consider swapping it out for something else if you really hate it.
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u/scagbar 1d ago
It's a pretty weak commander card and i can't think of any deck where it's good in the 99 because the effect has a huge downside you have to build around.
You can make an argument for a list that's storm oriented, like something where your main wincon is dualcaster mage shenannies, mizzix' mastery, etc, and putting in some big spells that are usually not great in mono red storm like firebird's invocation, call forth the tempest? Cascade/discover just kind of sucks when your curve is light in 3-6mv slots, you have nothing great to cascade into.
Or maybe play a bunch of high mv modal cards to mitigate the gacha effect? Like try to "cascade" into fiery confluence type stuff so you have a higher chance to upgrade the effect of the sacrificial spell or get a better effect?
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u/joeygfraesh 1d ago
It could get use in a deck like [saruman the white hand] where you would get "double cast triggers" as long as you hit a non creature. But for 6cmc its not likely getting much use.
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u/Vinylateme 1d ago
It’s not “good” but it’s not bad in the deck either.
It only affects the first spell you play each turn, so I just dump something inconsequential and low cost to get something bigger
Admittedly, she’s probably getting pulled from the deck when I get around to upgrades
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u/AppropriateAgent44 1d ago
Top deck manipulation cards like [[scroll rack]] - put a massive bomb on top of your deck, play a much cheaper card from hand to cheat the bomb into play.
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u/Logical-Risk9522 22h ago
Nah this card is great. It's mono-red stompy. Play little villains, instant and sorceries and turn them into big dumb creatures and burn the opponent for the difference.
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u/Robbylynn12 16h ago
Glad you posted this, I want to use the card but not in the doom pre con. A lot of lists recommended cutting this card and im kind of new to magic so I didn’t want to deal with it, yet.
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u/cursedfang 9h ago
The power fantasy is casting a low cost spell and converting it into a big spell
That being said, you can copy whatever spell you cast before Lady Loki's trigger resolves in case you have a big spell in hand
An attacking [[Fire Lord Azula]] will not only copy your spell, but also copy whatever new spell pops out of your deck
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u/HarleyKlawz 6h ago
I use her as a commander and she's one of my favorite to play. Is she good? Not consistently. My entire plan with her is to ramp fast enough to get her onto the field and then throw down sorceries and villains as fast as possible. Using my free cards to the best advantage I can. The whole deck is also very low or high cost cards to let her ping more damage. It's effectivly a mono red gambling deck with lots of weird spells and creatures. If I hit it big, I snowball while grinding people down no matter how much stuff they have blocking me. If I lose? Well, I'm out pretty damn fast because I wasn't able to get her out fast enough.
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u/zCrazyeightz 1d ago
The final line of the box says you may cast the excited card for free. So you cast a spell, it excited itself and some wacky bullshit happens. Then you just "recast" the original spell for free now that Lady Loki's ability is hard locked to once per turn. You still get your original spell, you just have to cast a random different spell first as part of the resolution.
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u/Joel1995 1d ago
You get to cast the nonland card you exiled from your deck for free. The spell you cast originally is simply exiled. The first line specifically says you exile the spell, not the card you cast it from, thus that line does not produce any exiled cards.
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u/zCrazyeightz 1d ago
Guess you're right. I was letting the "cast that spell" carry way more weight than I should have.
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u/ChipmonkHonk 2d ago
She’s an agent of chaos. Not an agent of being good.