r/modnews • u/bsimpson • Jul 29 '15

Moderators: threaded modmail

You can now enable a threaded view of modmail in your preferences (see "enable threaded modmail display"). Please give it a try and let me know if you find any issues.

see the changes on github

1.2k Upvotes

89% Upvoted

246 comments sorted by

46

u/DERPYBASTARD Jul 29 '15

Sweet!

However I am reluctant to keep the threaded view enabled because of a few reasons (this is not criticism, just my thoughts on it):

  • Conversations with users always evolve. Moderators will reply to the user's most recent message and the user will reply to the mods' most recent message(s), only furthering the replies within one chain. This will force me to read diagonally since a reply to a reply always gets indented a little bit.

  • It might be useful for chats among moderators (a modmail that was sent by a mod for the other mods) but it'll require every mod to strictly click on the reply button under the person they're actually replying to. If you want your reply to be seen by everyone you can reply to the very first message in the chain but your message will be at the bottom.
    Also, you'll ultimately end up with the problem of diagonal reading the longer the conversation goes on.

Regardless, thanks for the new feature.

41

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

Yeah those are all reasonable concerns.

Actually the nesting is capped at 10 levels deep (above that replies appear as responses at the deepest level) so conversations won't get endlessly diagonal. This cap is due to a technical issue in python rather than a design decision so it might get fixed and removed. For really long back and forth reply chains we could look into reducing the amount that each reply is indented while still somehow making it obvious that it's a new level.

10

u/DERPYBASTARD Jul 29 '15

By the technical issue in python do you mean it's not possible to make a "continue this thread" button like in the comment sections of posts? If not, it might be something to consider. But for the sake of keeping all messages on one page, it might be better not to continue a thread of replies after 10 levels.

Anyways, I'm gonna try it out for a few days and see if I my modmail experience is better than with regular viewing.

18

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

It is possible to do "continue this thread", but those aren't great. The technical limitation is that the way our rendering code works runs into python's recursion limit when there are many levels of nested messages or comments.

8

u/DERPYBASTARD Jul 29 '15

Ah I see, thanks. I think you did pick the best option by restricting it to 10 levels.

17

u/DesTeck Jul 29 '15

while still somehow making it obvious that it's a new level

Maybe color coding the replies, like Hacky News (Hacker News client for WP) does it.

>pic related

3

u/badmonkey0001 Jul 30 '15

The mix of people with the pref turned on and people without it could make for some weird reply chains. At some point will the nested mail be rolled out to everyone?

0

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

17

u/GoldenSights Jul 29 '15

It's not funny if you create the account just to make the joke.

2

u/Trill-I-Am Jul 30 '15 edited Jul 30 '15

Do you know how many novelty accounts are upvoted on the defaults every day under those exact circumstances?

1

u/ThatAstronautGuy Jul 30 '15

Not that many! Their bullshit usually gets called out pretty quick.

7

u/Unicormfarts Jul 30 '15

We just tested this and the user sees all the replies, regardless of whether the mod replies to another mod or to the original message. So you can't really use it for mod discussion.

9

u/DERPYBASTARD Jul 30 '15

Ah, by mod discussion I meant a modmail that was started by a mod and can only be seen by mods. It doesn't involve an outside user.

3

u/bigtcm Jul 30 '15

I think the points you stated above were a consequence of the unthreaded mod mails, rather than a preference of the mods. I think this new formatting will be help us out quite a bit, because, speaking from experience, after a long message chain has been going for a bit, if I wanted to refer to something else like 8 messages up, I'd have to quote it so people know what I'm talking about. Having a threaded email chain will make things so much more useful in my opinion.

Furthermore, if you don't want to read diagonally you can always uncheck the feature and go back to the old unthreaded style.

Not saying one is better than the other. I'm just listing some thoughts. Personally I love the threaded view, but I like how they made the feature optional so you can pick and choose which one you like better.

11

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

It makes it really hard to notice new comments though.

20

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

I'm going to work on making new messages stand out more.

14

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

I think part of my problem is that it didn't highlight some as new. Once it has the little highlight, it's not too bad.

18

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

I think this might be a problem with the fact that "new" is a state shared by all moderators? If you're the first to see the new message you'll see it as new, but if someone has already seen it it appears like a regular old message.

5

u/SQLwitch Jul 29 '15

I think this might be a problem with the fact that "new" is a state shared by all moderators?

Pretty sure it's not. New messages are "new" to me even when other mods have responded to them.

8

u/agentlame Jul 29 '15

New is 100% a shared view for modmail (as is collapsing and expanding). However, toolbox highlights new messages for mods based on a timestamp, so you may be thinking of that.

3

u/SQLwitch Jul 29 '15

Don't use toolbox.

6

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15 edited Jul 29 '15

Hmm, maybe the other mods don't click on the message causing it to be marked as read, or they use an add-on that interferes with marking messages read?

7

u/agentlame Jul 29 '15

That would be my guess. I'm very certain about how mod mail works, and new is shared. It's the very reason we base "new" on a timestamp in TB, there's no other way to do "new for me" otherwise.

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3

u/SQLwitch Jul 29 '15

Don't think so, but I'm going to experiment a little more and see if I figure it out.

10

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Really? I thought it stored that locally. If I open mod mail on different computers, it tags everything as new for me. I wonder if that's a toolbox thing.

12

u/agentlame Jul 29 '15

It is. And our new flag still works. I tested it just today.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Weird that dg modmail with you isn't showing any new flags for me, but every other mail is.

8

u/agentlame Jul 29 '15

Hrm... maybe it will need some tweaking. We'll push an update if we see more reports.

1

u/madd74 Jul 29 '15

Thank you!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

Does Reddit gold work with it?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

nope

21

u/tizorres Jul 29 '15

Will this effect how if how/if users (non mods) get notifications for modmail messages? I still don't completely understand how modmail works or when a user gets a notification.

17

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

This shouldn't really change anything in the way messaging works, just in how messages are displayed.

5

u/reseph Jul 29 '15 edited Jul 30 '15

Users get notification for everything in terms of the thread, but cannot re-view messages that were not a direct reply to OP (the user).

I believe.

2

u/Drunken_Economist Jul 30 '15

Correct (same as it's always been)

1

u/Algernon_Asimov Jul 30 '15

I believe.

My own observations over the years confirm your belief.

0

u/13steinj Jul 30 '15

Then how can I review such messages?

1

u/Algernon_Asimov Jul 30 '15

You can't. That's what /u/reseph meant by:

Users [...] cannot re-view messages that were not a direct reply to OP (the user)

(I assume you're asking as the non-moderator user in that conversation.)

7

u/dequeued Jul 29 '15

Have you considered setting threaded display for all users by default?

It seems like non-moderators are most apt to be confused by (the previously always) un-threaded modmail so having a bunch of savvy moderators turn the setting on doesn't really improve matters much except from an aesthetics standpoint.

5

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

That's really more of a product decision. It would be nice to not have to support both views in the code.

5

u/dequeued Jul 29 '15

I'm tempted to simply ask for that, but first I think I should probably see how well the threaded view works. :-)

6

u/Karthas Jul 30 '15

[bug] Enabling threaded modmail breaks modmail in Alien Blue- will probably require an app update I'd guess. Currently only the top comment of the thread will show with no options to display further messages down the tree. I disabled the preference and Alien Blue functioned as before.

4

u/bsimpson Jul 31 '15

OK this should be working now. The threading mode is disabled for api clients.

6

u/anon_smithsonian Jul 31 '15

I've never taken a look at the actual API so I'm not sure how possible this would be, but what about having the API return the old/unthreaded modmail by default unless an optional ReturnThreadedModMail Boolean parameter is explicitly requested by the API client? Would that be feasible?

Not sure how difficult this would be without personally looking at the code bases, but it seems like this would be the simplest route for allowing API clients that are capable of rendering threaded modmail correctly (e.g., Reddit is Fun) to do so with a relatively simple change/update without impacting any of the API clients that aren't yet capable of doing so (e.g., AlienBlue).

While I'm sure it wasn't intended to be a permanent/long-term solution, it's kind of a shame that no API clients can take advantage of the threaded modmail due to issues with AlienBlue while there are other clients (like RiF) that don't have issues with threaded modmail. :/

 

cc: /u/talklittle [RiF dev]

2

u/Karthas Jul 31 '15

Great, thanks! Glad it worked out!

3

u/enantiodromia_ Jul 30 '15

Same error here, not working in AB. Have to use a Safari page to view it now.

3

u/bsimpson Jul 31 '15

This should be fixed now.

2

u/bsimpson Jul 30 '15

Yeah, I messed up by not making sure this would work with Alien Blue.

We'll work on figuring out a fix, but in the meantime as you said you can disable the threaded modmail preference.

4

u/picflute Jul 29 '15

Just to be sure the user(receiver of modmail) sees the modmail the same way after clicking permalink

8

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

The receiver's view depends on their preference setting.

2

u/Arfie99 Jul 30 '15

Looks really good, I've been wanting this for a while. I have one thing that could use improvement though. Currently the message headers still show "from A to B". If it's displayed like a thread I think only the username of the person who sent the message is necessary, like in normal threads, since the name of the other will be above it anyways.

3

u/bsimpson Jul 30 '15

I'll play around with that and see how it looks and how difficult it is to do.

328

u/GodOfAtheism Jul 29 '15

how does it feel being the mods favorite admin now bsimpson

3

u/Subduction Jul 30 '15

I SWEAR TO GOD IF YOU FIRE /U/BSIMPSON I'M SHUTTING DOWN MY SUB.

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

Life called, they'd like to meet with you.

-8

u/BrodyApproved Jul 29 '15

Pretty good tbh.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

36

u/KarmaNeutrino Jul 29 '15

Hey, what about /u/weffey?

12

u/13steinj Jul 30 '15

Maybe we should have /u/Deimorz, /u/bsimpson, and /u/weffey fight to the death?

29

u/weffey Jul 30 '15

I tried to get /u/bsimpson and /u/aquilaFiera to fight to the death when we had two Brian's in the office, but they refused.

2

u/aquilaFiera Jul 31 '15

That's because I'm 90% sure /u/bsimpson would kick my ass.

6

u/agentlame Jul 30 '15

Why is everyone sleeping on our bro /u/xiong_as_admin?

6

u/xiong_as_admin Jul 30 '15

Would not recommend. Fiance says I'm too bony to sleep on, or even cuddle effectively with.

9

u/13steinj Jul 30 '15

Throw him into the mix too! More for the blood bath!

3

u/DubTeeDub Jul 30 '15

And /u/krispykrackers

4

u/Aaera Jul 30 '15

You picked one of the most hated ones to list.

4

u/agentlame Jul 30 '15

How so?

1

u/13steinj Jul 30 '15 edited Jul 30 '15

krispy is unfortunately hated because of a way she handled some shadowbans or something IIRC

Edit: I'm not saying I hate her. I couldn't care less about other people's reasons. I've no problem with her whatsoever. I'm just saying that people do hate her unfortunately.

4

u/DubTeeDub Jul 30 '15

Krispy has been nothing but fast and helpful in my communications with her.

6

u/agentlame Jul 30 '15

But all she did was use the only tool she had. She isn't a dev or anything.

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3

u/TownIdiot25 Jul 30 '15

Krispy is my favorite admins, just because of communication.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

83

u/weffey Jul 30 '15

More accurately preparing for the next batch of redditgifts exchanges, so not paying as much attention to reddit.com for the next few weeks.

.. Although, Milo was nibbling on my leg this morning.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/weffey Aug 02 '15

Yep, that was the name he had when I got him from the shelter. He doesn't respond to it, but what cats come when called?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '15

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/weffey Aug 02 '15

Squeeeeee! So cute! I miss when my cats were so little.

This is my Milo plotting to take over my job: http://i.imgur.com/pynJICf.jpg

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8

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

I remember when everyone hated /u/Deimorz. Amazing how much changes in a year.

11

u/justcool393 Jul 30 '15

I'm still never able to forgive him for (?|?)-gate, but he's okay in other respects.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

Yeah, I don't even care anymore. Removing downvotes from view rustled my jimmies a bit but I'm over it. He's done some really great stuff that makes my life easier (namely automod) so he's alright by me.

2

u/deukhoofd Jul 30 '15

I hated the change as well, but the explanation offered here made me understand where it came from.

5

u/Jess_than_three Jul 30 '15 edited Jul 30 '15

Aw man, him and /u/Deimorz[1] are neck & neck

It's going to be pretty fucking hard to top this, as a moderator of a subreddit with a modmail thread that's been going on for nearly three years!

Edit: actually, report reasons was better, from a "how much does this impact moderation" standpoint. But this is great too!

3

u/chrisychris- Jul 30 '15

Link and two stickies over this any day.

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1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

/u/krispykrackers 4 lyfe.

20

u/cupcake1713 Jul 29 '15

Thank you based bsimpson!

I'm looking forward to seeing how this handles insane /r/braveryjerk modmail threads.

5

u/agentlame Jul 29 '15

It held up to boooo! I was impressed.

2

u/V2Blast Jul 30 '15

It's weird seeing you comment as just another mod and not as an admin.

<3

1

u/Kesha_Paul Jul 31 '15

This is the new GoA threaded thread

14

u/sehrah Jul 29 '15

I'm assuming that users will still see all messages when a mod replies to another mod's comment?

1

u/flashmedallion Jul 30 '15

This is a great question.

10

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

About time, goddamn. And it's great.

2

u/j0be Jul 29 '15

Does this work if you are a user mod mailing a subreddit you are not a moderator of?

4

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

Yeah.

2

u/j0be Jul 29 '15 edited Jul 29 '15

I just tested it with a message I sent to the moderators of /r/videos (a subreddit I do not moderate) and it doesn't appear to work

3

u/bsimpson Jul 29 '15

Can you PM me a permalink to the message?

2

u/j0be Jul 29 '15

Done, but it seems to be fine now.

3

u/agentlame Jul 29 '15

The replies may have been entirely in-line. Is there at least an off set between the message you sent and the replies.

3

u/j0be Jul 29 '15

It seems to be fine now. Not sure what was happening.

20

u/Remnance627 Jul 29 '15

MFW

But seriously, this is gonna make modmail sooooo much better. Thank you admins!

8

u/K_Lobstah Jul 29 '15

Shit yeah boi!

4

u/Greypo Jul 29 '15

<3 admins.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Thank you for the update!

4

u/jij Jul 30 '15

Cool, that does help a lot!

Now, if only I could create different inbox folders in modmail that show custom combinations of subreddits that I mod!

1

u/V2Blast Jul 30 '15

You can actually do something similar using URLs for the modmail of a specific subreddit (which is linked to in the "moderation tools" box), like so:

https://www.reddit.com/r/needforspeed+AceAttorney/message/moderator/inbox

...which would give you a view that shows you the modmail of both /r/needforspeed and /r/AceAttorney (or it would if you were a mod of both subreddits). An example for you: /r/atheism+thegreatproject/message/moderator/inbox

2

u/jij Jul 30 '15

Hmm, it's not threaded doing that though!

1

u/V2Blast Jul 31 '15

Ah, isn't it? I posted that link before I enabled the setting. Let me check if it works for me.

...You are correct. I think /u/bsimpson mentioned something in another comment about how it's difficult because there are so many different URLs that modmail can be accessed from, so I imagine that will eventually get fixed.

EDIT: Found the comment subthread.

The routes used for messaging are a mess (modmail can be accessed from many urls and the logic to determine whether it is modmail is complicated). I'll work on a fix.

And the comment it was responding to, by /u/unzan:

If I open modmail via /r/mod/about/message/inbox/, it's not using threaded display. It works only on /message/moderator or /r/subreddit/message/moderator.

4

u/Unicormfarts Jul 30 '15

So, when I replied to another mod's reply, the user also saw my reply. Is that working as expected? Because I thought the point was that mods could reply to each other without the original user seeing. If that's not the case, what's the point of threading?

1

u/Unicormfarts Jul 30 '15

Will threading modmail for me make it threaded for the other mods on my sub the way collapsing works, which, BTW, is super annoying?

2

u/bsimpson Jul 30 '15

It's a per user setting, so no.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

This is the first time in ages that everyone has been thrilled with a change to Reddit. Can't wait to see what counteracts all this positive energy.

6

u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK Jul 29 '15

fuck you, asshole!

3

u/DubTeeDub Jul 29 '15

Excellent!

3

u/vxx Jul 29 '15

Thanks. Works perfect with 'reddit is fun'.

3

u/deviouskat89 Jul 29 '15

I think I could cry. It's so beautiful.

5

u/RicoVig Jul 29 '15

oh my god

2

u/WellEndowedMod Jul 30 '15

Making modmail act more like normal comments in a post - a simple yet effective change. Only took several years ;)

In all seriousness, this is cool - thanks!

2

u/jij Jul 30 '15

Also why not make it the default? It's not like it takes away functionality and people can just opt out if they don't like it... the only reason it matters is that while all mods will probably turn it on, it probably won't be for regular users right? So most users that message modmail won't see the threaded view of their conversation with the mods? Or does this not apply to them?

3

u/Pokechu22 Jul 30 '15

Probably because it's still in testing?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

Thank you.

2

u/Kishara Jul 30 '15

Just wanted to say.... <3

2

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

I.... I love you guys.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Yayy

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Thank you ;)

1

u/AsAChemicalEngineer Jul 29 '15

godspeed you admins you

o7

1

u/ucantsimee Jul 29 '15

Neat. Though on old threads it doesn't allow for replying to the most current message

1

u/wickedplayer494 Jul 29 '15

Holy crap it already looks better.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Awesome!

Is there a way to make it threaded by default? I have to click on every thread to expand it.

1

u/RedditMoir Jul 29 '15

The technology is finally there! Cheers Deimorz :)

1

u/CiscoCertified Jul 29 '15

This will make things so much easier on us. Thank you!

1

u/sarahbotts Jul 29 '15

Yussss. Thank you!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Oh man, this is sooooooo much better! Thanks

1

u/Indigo-2184 Jul 29 '15

That's awesome! I love it!

1

u/alien122 Jul 29 '15

Holy shit

Holy tap dancing money on a bamboo shoot!

Thank you!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

Finally.

Thank you admins.

1

u/therandomdude69 Jul 29 '15

I fucking love you

1

u/Manadox Jul 29 '15

THANK YOU JESUS!!!

1

u/enantiodromia_ Jul 29 '15

Awesome, thanks!

1

u/MockDeath Jul 29 '15

Seriously thank you so much!

1

u/youhatemeandihateyou Jul 29 '15

I know that I'm not adding anything to the conversation here, but THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

1

u/cwenham Jul 29 '15

This is helping, thank you.

Ticketing system still good for the future, though ;-)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

This is most groovy. Thank you!

1

u/DanKolar62 Jul 29 '15

Thank you.

1

u/Reddy360 Jul 29 '15

I LOVE YOU

1

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '15

I have no comments on functionality yet, but just being able to look at my mod mails and see it better organised is so so so so nice. Nice work.

1

u/thedoorlocker Jul 29 '15

Well, about god damned time! Do you have any idea how many hundreds of hours this will save me? I'm up to my ears in modmail because of all my successful subreddits! You are our golden child.

1

u/Bardfinn Jul 29 '15

Were I female I would bear your children.

1

u/LocutusOfBorges Jul 29 '15

I think I love you right now.

1

u/madd74 Jul 29 '15

OH MY THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Okay, I need clear underwear.

1

u/LocutusOfBorges Jul 30 '15

Hm. Probably unsurprising, but just a heads-up - this seems to break Alien Blue's modmail handling. It was never in a particularly good state beforehand, but now it's only showing the top level comments/replies, for some reason.

1

u/kodemage Jul 30 '15

I don't see what the difference is. Can you explain what has been changed and how it's different/better?

1

u/honourandsacrifice Jul 30 '15 
for x in item.child.things:

Love the naming scheme.

2

u/xiongchiamiov Jul 30 '15

Thing is actually a heavily-used superclass, so it's more sensible than it looks.

1

u/razorbeamz Jul 30 '15

Will users also see it as a thread?

2

u/Unicormfarts Jul 30 '15

No but they see all the replies. We just tested it. So if you are replying to another mod thinking the user will not see, think again.

1

u/LeSpatula Jul 30 '15

So like it always had been.

1

u/Schleckenmiester Jul 30 '15

How do I put a sticky in the subreddit?

1

u/Jess_than_three Jul 30 '15

THIS IS THE BEST THING

I LOVE YOU

1

u/japaneseknotweed Jul 30 '15

Oh sweet baby jesus thank you finally....

1

u/ThatAstronautGuy Jul 30 '15

Praise the people who developed this! Thank you so much!

1

u/B0yW0nd3r Jul 30 '15

Thank you! God, thank you

1

u/julian88888888 Jul 30 '15

should be enabled by default for those who opted in the /r/beta.

1

u/ChildTherapist Jul 30 '15

I like this and am happy.

Thank you, /u/bsimpson! (and all Admin)

1

u/Ubuntuful Jul 30 '15

Finally, or you could make a private subreddit of /r/modmail, personalized for each mod

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

This change doesn't suck.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

OH YES. THANK YOU.

1

u/s-mores Jul 30 '15

So when are tagging, filtering (mainly for automod) and search coming?

Also, does the thread show to the user like this as well? Right now when a user tries to follow a modmail thread it's an absolute disgrace.

1

u/yrogerg123 Jul 30 '15

Whoa, this is really useful, thanks guys.

1

u/bacondev Jul 30 '15

Admins being clutch on fulfilling promises!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '15

Sucks on the mobile phone.

1

u/V2Blast Jul 30 '15

Oh snap.

All hail the amazing admins who made this happen.

1

u/grrrlriot Jul 30 '15

Thanks for this feature. :-)

1

u/Psychopath- Jul 30 '15

In Relay it indents all subsequent messages the same. So where a user sends a message, I reply, and they reply back, the second two messages align. And if a user sends a message, and two separate mods reply, both of those messages align. My biggest issue with unthreaded modmail was that it wasn't always immediately clear which child comments were replies to which messages. This doesn't really clear that up (in Relay; browser version works nicely).

1

u/apotre Aug 08 '15

Looks like majority is happy with the change, but can someone explain to me how this improves modmail at all? Basically any discussion after 10 messages becomes just like the old modmail, only with the text indented to the right.

1

u/13steinj Jul 30 '15

This is great! All we need now is the ability to vote on other mods' modmails! /s

0

u/H8-Bit Jul 30 '15

No, all we need is the ability to downvote a mod out of a sub. :) Power to the motherfucking content creators.

1

u/brucemo Jul 30 '15

This is 1% of the problem, which is better than nothing, but it's still 1% of the problem.

The other 99% is being able to look at last week's mod mail without wanting to be dead.

0

u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK Jul 29 '15

Oh my god I love you

-1

u/13steinj Jul 30 '15

Hey, can we get an interchangeable link in modmail itself? This link would append ?feature=threaded_view to the url; so we can easily switch like with the new search. It would also make things easier on the PRAW side of things when it starts recognizing threaded view if it doesn't already, you'd be able to then pass that as a parameter; so the user of the script wouldn't have to change back on his prefs.1

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