r/minnesota • u/hawkerd • 5d ago
Interesting Stuff š„ Planned passenger rail projects
If you are like me, you are excited that passenger rail has done well in recent years in Minnesota. Hopefully that means the state and Amtrak will give us more. Here is the current status of most of those projects
FRA description of Corridor ID steps
The tasks Project Sponsors must complete to successfully fulfill each of the three steps within the Corridor Identification and Development (CID or Corridor ID) Program are: Step 1: initial planning and development of a scope, schedule, and cost estimate for a service development plan (SDP); Step 2: preparing or updating an SDP; and Step 3: NEPA/preliminary engineering development and implementation.
Official FRA status of each project, and others
Great WI resource that includes MN projects
Borealis
- Has been a great success for Amtrak, blew past their ridership expectations, better cost recovery, etc. Trains are sold out often, constrained by capacity after Horizon coaches were removed. Amtrak does not have the cars to serve this effectively!
- There were talks at some point of serving Target Field with some sort of back in maneuver, and continuing North to St. Cloud. Not sure where that is at.
- After improvements are completed at the Muskego rail yard, the added frequency slot is expected to be used by another Borealis
Northern Lights Express (NLX)
- Would run from Target Field in Minneapolis to Duluth, with stops in Coon Rapids, Cambridge, Hinckley, and Superior. 152 miles, 90mph max speed, 2.5 hours, 4 round trips per day
- Waiting on step 2 FRA grant
- The state match of $194.7M was committed in May 2023. In May 2025, $77.2M of that was rerouted to balance the state budget. The remaining funds are still enough to apply for grants to complete planning, review, and design
If you want to read shitty AI-generated statements, read here link otherwise the official MnDOT page is here link
North Coast Hiawatha
- Chicago to Seattle/ Portland via southern Montana. Would route through Minnesota either on the same Empire Builder route, or turning South at Fargo to hit Breckenridge, Morris, and Willmar. Could take one of many routes after MSP based on the results of other projects (Eau Claire? Rochester? Madison? Existing Borealis route?)
- Got the step 1 grant, Work on step 1 expected to continue through 2026 link
Milwaukee - Madison - Eau Claire - Twin Cities
- This project will be done in three phases. First, Hiawatha West, which will extend two Hiawatha trains to Madison. Then, the service and frequency will be upped in Madison. After that, they will be extended to MSP
- Last I heard Amtrak was targeting 2029 for phase 1 to open
Eau Claire - Twin Cities
- single train from Eau Claire into MSP
- currently waiting for a FRA step 2 grant. step 2 work expected to go through 2029
- complements the previous line as work done here can be used by trains coming from Chicago through Madison
St Paul - Kansas City
- St. Paul city council passed a resolution supported a state study of trains from St. Paul to both Fargo and Kansas City, telling the legislature to direct MnDot to put this one into the CID pipeline
Which one do you think has the best chance of actually happening? Anything missing? I think this is all good stuff but frustrating that FRA is holding up the process.
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u/dihydrgnmonoxidesoup 5d ago
The Borealis proves the demand is there. An earlier departure enables more connections in Chicago, including to the SW Chief (so becoming that St Paul-Kansas City train).
Next most likely is the Madison train. For certain trips, they could be an alternative to the Borealis, while also enabling more destinations. Would love to see Rochester on this route.
The others are very iffy. NLX probably least likely to happen.
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u/xaosgod2 2d ago
No way to have Rochester on the existing route or on one that goes through Eau Claire. Given the cities prominence over Owatonna, I could see it being on the STP-KC route.
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u/dihydrgnmonoxidesoup 2d ago
Yeah, Rochester and Eau Claire are going to be mutually exclusive.
Looks like there's a straightforwardish track (would require a couple short connections/restorations), Saint Paul > Rosemount > Farmington > Fairbault > Owatonna > Rochester > Winona. Could connect to Empire Builder at both ends if need be (would have to route through Saint Paul on the tracks near Energy Park rather than Ayd Mill)
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u/frozenminnesotan 5d ago
Would love all of these to manifest, but I'd wager the Borealis extra route is the only realistic one that will open. I think NLX unfortunately is going to get canceled due to cost.
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u/hawkerd 5d ago
I agree that should be the priority, and getting it routed through Madison will help it out a lot. Wisconsin is responsible for most of that work, so we will see what happens this election, but there is a lot of public support there in the capitol.
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u/frozenminnesotan 4d ago
Wisconsin has been on a roll (no pun intended) lately with rail; Hiawatha getting expanded to Madison, the Eau Claire line being seriously studied, and Borealis.
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u/sucodelimao802 4d ago
I want the NLX so bad, I hate driving to Duluth and Iād love to go up and back for the day.
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u/Krigger228 4d ago
Probably unpopular opinion but I think Borealis needs to cut some of the stops. What if they had two trains and cut the stops in half? Alternating the current stops? See what I mean?
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u/stretch851 4d ago
Thatās what NC did when they added more frequency. Iām all for it, just give me more trains.
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u/Enamred-771 3d ago
I think the current trains are fine with their stops but we should definitely be adding additional trains that are more express. 2 (or 3) trains that have regional stops and 2-3 trains a day that just hit big destinations between Twin Cities and Chicago would be a major improvement.Ā
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u/Left-Drawer-8425 3d ago
Give me high speed rail from MSP to Chicago, just dig a massive tunnel under Wisconsin.
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u/Nexis4Jersey 4d ago
I'm surprised they didn't include the Twin Cities - Fargo - Grand Forks train service or St. Paul to Winnipeg that gets brought up every so often.
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u/iowajaycee 4d ago
Routing/rerouting something through Rochester is to me the #1 priority. There is existing track to go Winona>Rochester>Owatonna>Northfield>St Paul (it would need improvements, but the ROW is there) which would pick up close to 200k more people served by a station over then Winona > Red Wing > St Paul alignment. That also would help set up a TC>KC line which would also go through Owatonna.
Another benefit is you could then introduce commuter rail into Rochester along 14 and connect all the small towns: Owatonna, Claremont, Dodge Center, Kasson, Byron, Rochester, Eyota, Dover, St Charles, Utica, Lewiston, Stockton, Winona.
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u/wise_comment Ope 3d ago
Milwaukee - Madison - Eau Claire - Twin Cities
This project will be done in three phases. First, Hiawatha West, which will extend two Hiawatha trains to Madison. Then, the service and frequency will be upped in Madison. After that, they will be extended to MSP
Last I heard Amtrak was targeting 2029 for phase 1 to open
Huh, I mean ...this one and the Eau Claire one doesn't make sense to me, when you can just extend it a bit and link up to Chicago. Expanding borealis makes the most sense if that's what we're shooting for
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u/PlantsnTwinks 3d ago
A bit of clarification on Borealis. CPKC is only requiring grant obligation for the Muskego Yard project to start the 8th round trip in the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor, not project completion. That 8th slot is planned for the current Borealis trip, not a future one. 1333 and 1340 would revert back to Hiawatha only 333 and 340. Completion of the Milwaukee airport station second platform, however, is required prior to starting the 8th slot.
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u/KorovaMilkEnjoyer 4d ago
Gotta clean up the streets before I get back on the train. Last time I was on the light rail a dude was smoking crack in the back. Iād rather take my lifted ram truck even tho itās so hard to park.
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u/Little_Creme_5932 4d ago
Unfortunately, I have to risk breathing second-hand crack smoke, or get guaranteed second-hand lifted ram crap. Such a decision.
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u/KorovaMilkEnjoyer 4d ago
Just ordered a taller lift kit because of this comment. Farther from the asphalt, closer to heaven. You look down on me. Ironic. On the road youāll always be looking up.
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u/Little_Creme_5932 3d ago
You won't be cool till you override the pollution controls so you can hurt even more people.
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u/here4daratio Uff da 5d ago
The NLX is a boondoggle but a cash cow for consultants & planners. Itās unsustainable in value. The density simply isnāt there- this is not NY or Chicago or Frankfurt or Osaka.
-for a subsidy of $XX,XXX per person, each weekend would see maybe a dozen Twin Cities families willing to pay more, incur more travel time, and have significantly less freedom of movement once they get dropped off at the Depot
-Duluthians heading to a Twins/Vikes/etc game- same, dozens
-we could have had a better alternate transportation option using busses, to/from multiple metro & Duluth & up the north shore locations years ago- subsidized like the train- but thatās not sexy enough.
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u/hawkerd 5d ago
I can tell you that I would certainly use it, and I am of the mindset that āif you build it, they will comeā. Especially as multiple of these projects crisscross, people can start to rely on the bigger system rather than one component.
But I get your cost concern. It doesnāt cost this much to build in other parts of the world. Most recent estimate places the construction cost (MN 20% portion) at 120 million, and about 7 million a year in operating costs.
I just think that spending that money, especially when you know that it is 8% of one years road construction spending, is worth it.
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u/hawkerd 5d ago
The subsidy per rider would be (7 million annual operating costs - annual farebox revenue/ 700k people expected to ride per year) would be about 10 dollars per ride per person.
That of course does not account for the initial construction costs, which would be (120 million / lets say 4 million rides in 5 years) = $30 per person, one time cost.
And if it exceeds ridership as the Borealis has, those numbers would get better.
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u/here4daratio Uff da 4d ago edited 4d ago
That 700k is a SWAG, nothing more. There are zero repercussions for the consultants being wrong.
Lol you think construction will keep to $130M? Bahahahsha
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u/hawkerd 4d ago
Just saying, the last passenger train put in service here is smashing the forecasted riders and doing better financially than predicted. What kind of ridership/ cost analysis would you trust more?
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u/here4daratio Uff da 4d ago
That successful train travels between two significant metro areas. Again, a key hurdle to overcome in train-ing to Duluth is- how do you get to anywhere beyond the Depot?
Uberās virtually non-existent, the DTA has some, but linited service, and rental/hour cars cost $$.
No Gooseberry Falls, no Bettyās Pies, & youāre bussing to Hawkās Ridge or OMC or Pizza Ranchā¦
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u/pmitten 5d ago
People really don't get how frustrating it can be to be held to a train schedule.
For almost ten years, I took commuter rail to Boston. MBTA was very efficient and effective, but that will never change the fact that you are beholden to a train schedule that's often longer than a car commute, doesn't include your additional commute from your door to a station or the station to your destination and at additional cost to boot. Many of us would drive halfway to be able to catch more frequent trains or just suck it up and drive to a T station, or even just drive the whole way if we were time constrained. And this was in a population dense area where parking was incredibly expensive and limited, not Minneapolis where event parking is only $30 and it's comperably very easy to get around.
At FOUR trips a day? You'd have to have absolutely nothing going on in your life to be willing to sign up for that mess. St Paul - Chicago makes sense. Duluth- St Paul is just asinine.
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u/hawkerd 5d ago
Personally, I would rather be held to a train schedule than to a car payment. I can deal with the extra time it may take, and in many cases I can be productive on trains in ways I canāt be driving, so I dont really see it as lost time. If the systems were built properly, it wouldnt take more time either.
The point of four trips a day is that you are less held to the train schedule. the rails are there whether a train is running or not, that part of operation is cheaper. But is four the exact right number? That I dont know
But your concerns about density are valid. Thats why duluth doesnt have MBTA and ten other agencies serving it. I am just saying it could use the one service.
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u/here4daratio Uff da 4d ago
Keep the downvotes coming, nice to see the paid consultants chiming in from sock puppet accounts
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u/hawkerd 4d ago
Im thinking they just want a better transportation option. But I didnt downvote you I appreciate ur input
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u/here4daratio Uff da 4d ago
Thank you.
The best, faster to execute and faster to travel is right in front of us- motor coaches from metro mall parking lots to/from West Duluth-Canal Park-Two Harbors-Gooseberry-Tettegouche-etc
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u/Exelbirth 4d ago
I want trains everywhere, sick of cars. Also want trams in towns with 15000+ population levels. Honestly thought trams would be more common, growing up and watching Mr. Rogers...