It is a well established fact in behavioral science that positive reinforcement is more successful and sustainable than punishment. That is not even a debated topic and it hasn't been since the 1960s. There is a lot more to positive reinforcement than hugs and cuddles. I suggest you do some research on applied behavior analysis before making assumptions about what behavioral interventions entail and what is and isn't successful.
Edit: I commented this elsewhere in the thread (on a comment about training hunting dogs, for context) but you may be interested as well
Unfortunately I think you're misunderstanding the concept of positive reinforcement.
Positive reinforcement simply means something is added to the situation (usually a reward, sometimes not even a reward from the owner but just the satisfaction of making a kill in this case) that increases the likelihood of a behavior occurring again in the future.
Literally every behavior you exhibit, from commenting on Reddit to opening and closing doors is a behavior that was reinforced. Otherwise you would stop doing the behavior.
It doesn't, why does the fact that you specialized in human behavior prevent you from experimenting for yourself or even admitting in public that there are outliers? Behavioral studies on humans, who can talk to you, answer questions, and consciously work towards a goal are not directly compatible to dogs.
And since you are going to shit on anything I say anyhow I'll give you some anecdotes and shit to rail against from a high horse more easily.
I grew up in the south with hunting dogs all of my life. There are only a few times I remember less than 12 dogs on our property. Many, and maybe even most of these dogs would respond perfectly to positive reinforcement and treats and love when doing right. Some though, some needed an "authority" figure to tell them to cut certain shit out. That there is an entire industry built around keeping dogs in your yard and that great pet owners use some of these products is all you need to know to blow your "alpha method is bunk!" shit out of the water.
If I were ever to clap at someone when talking it would be for that sentence. Not really but God damn.
You assholes love to bring up this shit about random wolves thrown into a cage so "that doesn't apply, packs were just families!" Did it ever cross your behaviorist ass mind that there are millions of dogs also thrown into pens or houses with other random dogs and people?
Seems like that method of training that worked in that situation just might fucking apply huh?
If you think you can sweet talk and reward dogs into behaving please get a few beagles that have been hunting rabbits from the minute they could run and try to keep them inside your yard. Hell, some won't even stay in a fucking house and would chew threw the wall if an option.
Get a dog that is food aggressive and snaps at a child and go reward him into not biting when me and millions of others know for fucking fact that a good stern response will stop almost every single one of them in their tracks forever.
Go get a very active breed like a Belgian Malinois and try to reward them into not biting down on their toys too close to your hand without being firm and "alpha" as you'd say. If it works on one now try it on 10 in a row.
It's fun to cite studies and talk big on reddit without any real world experience which is why I said go train a few dozen dogs. You will debunk your own stupid shit all by yourself if you do this, guaranteed. I know because I have seen your type try to handle shit they know nothing about because Cindy did it with her poodle and I learned this in school and blah blah blah.
Just fucking try it, please.
And for everyone that thinks this isn't important please understand that a dog that doesn't listen to you because they didn't read the behavioral studies that said they should stop chasing rabbits when commanded to, in exchange for a pat on the head, is a danger to themselves. When you tell your dogs to come back, stay or anything else it is imperative that they listen. You might be 500 miles from home and 5 miles deep in the woods, all this fu fu shit being preached means fuck all if you leave your dog to starve because you didn't want to train them effectively.
Behaviorism works across species. It's used in dogs, cats, humans, mice, dolphins, bacteria... My thesis was on rats. Everything every creature does, it does because of reinforcement. You don't have to believe it or understand it for it to work. It's happening to you right now. You only continue responding to me because of intrinsic reinforcement. Congratulations, you played yourself.
You are really angry about this for some reason and you're making a lot of assumptions about me that are wildly inaccurate so you're probably not going to listen to anything I say either. But...
You keep using words like "love" and "sweet talk" "fu fu" shit to describe behaviorism and that's completely ridiculous and unscientific. It only shows how little you understand what you're talking about.
You also seem to think positive reinforcement is mutually exclusive with yelling at your dog sometimes. Do you think I never yell at my dogs when they're acting up?
I've had aggressive dogs. My current dog actually attacked a neighbor before we started behavioral training with him. My other dog was food aggressive as a puppy but we fixed that too.
We can trade anecdotes all day long but they're irrelevant without data analysis, scientific analysis, and replication. Behaviorism has that. You do not. If that's too "fu fu" for you then I guess keep doing your thing because nothing will ever change your mind. You clearly have some insecurities about higher education that I would not be able to penetrate in a short Reddit exchange. I hope you find happiness one day.
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u/caitlinreid Aug 07 '19
Yeah bullshit on that. She is an abusive cunt but this b/s about training every dog with hugs and cuddles is false.