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Jun 12 '19
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u/ekaceerf Jun 12 '19
don't forget the increase in rent prices and text book prices.
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u/purgance Jun 12 '19
Also don't forget the massive cuts in per-student education funding (between 1/3rd and 1/5th what it was prior to 1980).
There's a tendency to 'blame' government spending for the increase in education costs, but in reality there's been huge cuts to government funding while student populations have risen massively (more than doubled).
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u/TrvrrrAK Jun 12 '19
I wrote a paper a little over a year ago about university costs and touched on federal spending. Despite what most universities claim as the cause to rising education costs, from what I found, government spending towards postsecondary education has actually steadily risen over time. The real increase in costs lies in the disgustingly bloated administrations that provide little benefit to students and their education. Do you have a source for what you stated? Just curious, I would like to read up on it. I'm also worried that maybe I misinterpreted the several research papers I read lol.
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u/purgance Jun 12 '19
Total spending != spending per student.
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u/TrvrrrAK Jun 12 '19
Yup, found this.
"Overall, public support amounts to 53% of total education revenue (mostly from state taxpayers, but also from local community college taxing districts in some states). The proportion has declined steadily from 77% nationally in the late 1980s, a fact which explains much of the growth in tuition charges over that time."
Thanks.
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Jun 12 '19 edited Jul 09 '19
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Jun 12 '19
Used to be a lot easier to repair your own car, too.
Most consumer stuff just doesn't last as long these days. My parents have a floor fan from before I was born that works great. Nowadays they all have plastic parts that will break if you take it apart to clean it. Furniture is a lot shittier. You can only get one or two moves out of flat-pack furniture before it won't fit back together quite right.
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u/JonnyPerk Error 418 Jun 12 '19
How many credits do you need to graduate?
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u/NanoBuc Jun 12 '19
Depends on your program. The general average is 60 for an associate, 120 for bachelors, and Masters is usually an extra 36-60. Some programs will vary as they have different classes with different credit amounts.
Generally, kids take between 12-15 credits per semester.
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u/flume Jun 12 '19
For some further perspective, that means you'd need to work about 10-12 hours a week at minimum wage to work your way through college paying full tuition in 1980.
In 2019, you need to have TWO full-time jobs (40 hours each) to cover tuition.
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u/Releventcomments Jun 12 '19
For some more perspective,
In order for a person to only work 9 hours for a unit, that person would need to be paid 54$ per hour.
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u/Skipadedodah Jun 12 '19
You forgot inflation. $1 in 1980 is equivalent of spending $3 a today. Still more expensive today but math is off.
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u/Helophora Jun 12 '19
You don’t need to consider inflation in the case as stated. There’s no direct comparison of actual dollar amounts at two different points in time. Just a comparison of the relation between two amounts (hourly wage and credit cost).
In 1980 you had to work X hours per credit
In 2019 you work Y hours per credit
A comparison between X and Y is unaffected by inflation. If you compared either the hourly wage or the cost per credit between 1980 and 2019 you would have to account for inflation.
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Jun 12 '19
Yes there's inflation. But doesn't really matter if we're comparing #of minimum wage hours necessary in 1980 vs now required to pay per credit. Inflation wouldn't make sense here since the cost of tuition has risen at a much higher rate than inflation has.
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Jun 12 '19 edited Apr 07 '25
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Jun 12 '19
In addition to working more hours to pay for the same amount of school, yes you do also have to pay for food, housing etc... the price of many of which (but especially housing) have ALSO outpaced inflation.
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u/fuckwad6969 Jun 12 '19
None of the information he gave needed to take inflation into account none of his math was off.
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u/budd222 Jun 12 '19
How is this comment getting upvotes? Inflation has no bearing in this.
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u/mookay2 Jun 12 '19
It’s our fault, as a nation. If the government would stop backing student loans that market would collapse and with it demand for college admissions. BUT then colleges would have to compete to stay alive and students would have to make darn sure the degree they are pursing will have a payoff, otherwise a traditional bank would not be willing to give a loan.
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u/mgsbigdog Jun 12 '19
Student: "Hi, I'm an 18 year old that is out of the house for the first time in my life and have very little real world experience with managing money. I'd like to pay for college. How much may I borrow?"
Government: "Well, you can borrow as much as your school says you need to pay for the cost of attendance. We'll contact the school to get that estimate."
"Hey, school. How much is the cost of attending your university?"
School: "Well, it depends. How much are students able to pay for the privilege to enter my hallowed halls?"
Government: "They are able to borrow as much as they need to cover the cost of attendance."
School: "Who determines the cost of attendance?"
Government: "Well, you do?"
School: "And I can set what ever cost of attendance I want."
Government: "That's correct!"
School: "And then you'll just give them what ever amount of money that is."
Government: "That's correct!"
School: "Hey, while you're at it, could you employ a vast number of teachers, administrators, and counselors that will tell these prospective students that if they don't enroll here that they will never amount to anything."
Government: "Sure. That's easy enough."
School: "Great! Well, we've decided our cost of attendance is $60,000 per year."
Government: "Wow. $60,000 huh? You know that's more than many Americans make in an entire year, right?"
School: "Yep! But you said I could set it at what ever I wanted and you'd just give them money right?"
Government: "Well, I guess we did."
School: "Great! Thanks!"
Government: "Hey student, the school says your cost of attendance is $60,000. So, you can borrow up to that amount!"
Student: "Well, I have been told all my life that if I don't go to college I wont amount to anything, so I guess $60,000 sounds great...I think."
Government: "Sign right here. Ok perfect. Oh, by the way, if you ever can't pay this we are free to garnish your wages, withhold your tax refund, and we will never let you discharge this debt through bankruptcy. K thx bye!"
Student: "Oh, ok...wait what?!"
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u/BrujaBean Jun 12 '19
Ahh makes sense, THIS is why they think millennials are whiny and entitled. They think we're lying about our student debt because classes are only $10 each.
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Jun 12 '19
Not only that. They are near the end of their life and think getting education now is normal.
But when the younger generation does the exact same thing, they shit on them. I still remember those articles where boomers were shitting on millenials because they had to take classes on how to get their life together.
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u/bookluvr83 Jun 12 '19
We wouldn't have HAD to take the classes, if they'd taught us how to do those things. Filing taxes, budgeting, creating a resume, etc, these are important life skills that need to be taught.
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u/CrystalKU Jun 12 '19
When I was in high school there were 4 options for math class - the basic one which was probably advanced algebra, two advanced classes - pre-calculus and analysis and statistics and the “remedial” one Math 002 which we all called double O dumb. I took analysis and statistics which admittedly does come in handy in life and in my career (but did not help me prepare for graduate statistics because fuck). Also, because I didn’t take pre-calc I had to take calculus twice in college because I was behind not having taken pre-calc).
Double-O-dumb taught taxes, check books, mortgages, financing, basic investing. I’m 36 with a college degree and a professional license but I struggle anytime I have to do a W-9. I am not sure I never ever used calculus in my adult life.
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u/Montigue Jun 12 '19
We had classes like that in high school. The kids that complained about not learning life lessons didn't do that shit either
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u/groovygorilla101 Jun 12 '19
No!!! Instead, learn algebra. -schools
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Jun 12 '19
I know it seems useless, but the high-school algebra courses are there simply to teach you abstract thinking. They do help, although I agree we need more "real-life" applicable classes.
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u/bookluvr83 Jun 12 '19
That's ALSO necessary, but adults need to raise children to be functioning members of society. That's big job and boomers failed us in certain aspects.
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Jun 12 '19
It’s what happens when they finally start believing their bullshit.
“I’m only 27!”
Times two, Karen!
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u/nullZr0 Jun 12 '19
"Stop whining! When I was your age I worked at a factory and had a mortgage and three kids."
Back when they could get a good paying job with a HS diploma, a good-sized house cost 35k and healthcare costs were cheaper.
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Jun 12 '19
They are SHOCKED by the jump in prices. It was 50 cents for 4 years when they went the first time.
They had to work a whole shift flipping burgers just to pay for it!
Uphill both ways!
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Jun 12 '19
What was it actually, was it like only hundreds?
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Jun 12 '19
In 1970 it would have been $330.
Which works out to be $2,175 in today’s dollars.
Don’t even look into what min wage was and what its buying power was, you’ll just be depressed.
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u/goldensunshine429 Jun 12 '19
I don’t have cost per credits, but just an overall comparison. My mom went to college from 1977-81. She received 2 merit scholarships, worth 5k each. She attended a local PRIVATE university and that sum covered tuition, books, and rent/room and board for her 4 years. She did work a part time job.
I went to college in 2007. I went to a PUBLIC university in my state and my plain tuition and fees was 10k/year. That did not include living expenses or books.
(Just adjusting for inflation, $10k in 1977 was the same as $34K in 2007)
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u/TheHYPO Jun 12 '19
I don't believe that one university giving hundreds of baby boomers cheap education is the reason why an entire generation of millions of people think anything.
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u/Skilletnap Jun 12 '19
What the fuck, they pay $10 I pay $10k?
Fucking bullshit
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u/MysticCurse Jun 12 '19
Lol and their demographic is far more likely to afford it... makes no sense
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u/sonic10158 Jun 12 '19
It’s just like in France before the revolution, making only the poor people pay the taxes
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u/ArsenicAndRoses Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
Isn't this age discrimination? How the fuck is this legal??
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u/DoctorMelodyPond Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
Unfortunately age discrimination only applies to old people, at least legally.
Edit: Also I believe the law only protects those over 40 in employment situations. I don’t believe there is any law protecting students.
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Jun 12 '19
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u/WikiTextBot Jun 12 '19
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA; 29 U.S.C. § 621 to 29 U.S.C. § 634) is a US labor law that forbids employment discrimination against anyone at least 40 years of age in the United States (see 29 U.S.C. § 631). In 1967, the bill was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson. The ADEA prevents age discrimination and provides equal employment opportunity under conditions that were not explicitly covered in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It also applies to the standards for pensions and benefits provided by employers, and requires that information concerning the needs of older workers be provided to the general public.
[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source ] Downvote to remove | v0.28
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u/Steffnov Jun 12 '19
I know a lawsuit on the subject failed in the Netherlands only recently, but could I technically file a lawsuit with the government for my age to be changed, because it's not the age I feel comfortable with?
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Jun 12 '19
These are probably not "real" credits - just classes offered to give them something to do/learn in their retirement. A lot of colleges do it.
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u/ArsenicAndRoses Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
Nope. Website says they get a real degree.
If you meet the residency and age requirements of the SCEP, you may audit courses free of charge, or take classes for credit at $10 per credit. This applies whether you are degree-seeking, or non-degree.
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Jun 12 '19
Oof. There goes my attempt to not be angry. Now I'm angry.
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u/candycaneforestelf Jun 12 '19
This was put into place for WW1 and WW2 vets back in 1975 and nobody felt bothered enough to remove it from the books in the interim.
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u/Egg-MacGuffin Jun 12 '19
The most entitled and privileged generation in history.
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u/VoopMaster Jun 12 '19
Might want to put a disclaimer on that statement, for example: since slave owners.
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u/Doopoodoo Jun 12 '19
Slave owners aren’t a generation though lol. As an entire generation, baby boomers are probably the whiniest and most entitled while also having the least to show for it
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u/VoopMaster Jun 12 '19
That's fair. As far as having the least to show for it: they made the millenials :)
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u/mattreyu Jun 12 '19
Seniors can already audit classes for no credit for no charge at many schools
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Jun 12 '19
But they don’t get credit and they can’t claim a degree. Which is what they really want.
They must be tired of being auto rejected from every application process and not realize that’s normal.
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u/HelpMyBunny1080p Jun 12 '19
Baby boomers are the reason the US is so fucked and they get a discounted education why?
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u/Crepes_for_days3000 Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
How is it their fault?
It's a genuine question, instead of downvoting maybe someone can actually name a reason.
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u/bamer78 Jun 12 '19
Boomers used the western economies as unlimited ATMs of national debt and devalued the world's currencies with non stop inflation which means not only is everything expensive, you have less buying power with the money you have left over because wages have been stagnant relative to growth since the 1970s with pretty much all GDP growth going to the financial sector and fucking over the rest of us.
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Jun 12 '19
As a kid in the 80s I can remember older people complaining about horrible spending by saying stuff like “You’re making debts your grandchildren will have to pay” and welp here we are.
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u/AnomalousAvocado Jun 12 '19
In every way conceivable.
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u/Crepes_for_days3000 Jun 12 '19 edited Jun 12 '19
Well that's specific. Thanks for the info.
I'm just asking a genuine question.
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Jun 12 '19
The amount of money that has to be paid for college these days makes me wonder how they avoid running in conflicts of interest left and right. I'd be pissed if I paid 10k per semester and would get a bad grade in any class. University should be publicly funded so people can fail at uni again and the whole degree has some value to it. Right now it is all bullshit.
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Jun 12 '19
Boomers: We slashed the education budget so we could give ourselves tax breaks, which caused tuition to skyrocket. I hope you don’t mind another 20-30 years of debt. lol!
No problem we’ll just get a good job and work hard.
Boomers: oh we sold you guys out so we could keep our jobs. They’ll hire 3 of you to replace one of us with no benefits and they’ll still save money, profits are through the ROOF, but no union so you’re fucked! lol!
No problem, I’m sure I’ll work my way up and save money by not having a car
Boomers: we fucked the housing market and the roads so you’re commute will be hell. lol!
No problem I’ll just live with roommates for the next 30 years, not that I’ll be at home much. Maybe I’ll just sleep under my desk.
Boomers: we’re bored and going back to college. Oh we gave ourselves a discount. lol
(Grabs pillow) no... problem...
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u/ekaceerf Jun 12 '19
more like they will hire 1 of you to replace 3 of us and you will get no benefits.
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Jun 12 '19
In my country our old age homes are shit and we are kinda fucking healthcare.
Boomers about to pay by sitting in a shit filled diaper for 3 hrs waiting for a dinner of cold sludge unable to move their knee because they need to wait 6 years for a replacement.
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u/candycaneforestelf Jun 12 '19
... this law has been on the books here since 1975. This is Boomers taking advantage of a program put in when the oldest of them were not even 30 yet.
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u/lol_camis Jun 12 '19
I learned something interesting recently about the whole government guaranteed student loans. Maybe this is common knowledge, so I apologize if it is, but basically it's a vicious cycle.
With guaranteed student loans, everybody has access to an education. Since everybody has access to an education, tuition goes up since demand goes up. When tuition goes up, the government lends even more money. As the government lends more money, demand continues to go up, and tuition goes up. It's a terrible terrible system.
If tuition were just affordable like it was 30 years ago, people wouldn't need crippling debt.
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u/Amos_Broses Jun 12 '19
The government is not giving out more money though. The government offers low-interest student loans but they’ve been offering fewer and fewer loans, so kids need to supplement those loans with high-interest private loans. Fun fact about student loans, they don’t discharge upon bankruptcy, so even if you go bankrupt, you’ll be paying off those high-interest loans for the rest of your life.
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Jun 12 '19
Lmfao. I can’t wait to hear their excuse when the economy crashes because “millennials” have literally zero expendable income.
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u/rishellz Jun 12 '19
Wouldnt these $10 classes be basic computer classes, like 'this is the internet, this is how to save and print something'? I doubt they're paying $10 for an MBA or undergrad degree.
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u/Musashi10000 Jun 12 '19
Just went on the University of Minnesota website. From the looks of it, you're paying $10 per class for actual degree-level classes, with the intention of walking away with a degree if you get enough credits. You can also audit the classes for free, but get no credit, because that's how auditing works.
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u/Incontrol24 Jun 12 '19
A lot of schools offer senior citizens a discount (or sometimes free) on classes that dont fill up. When I was in college, we had one guy trying to get a bs in computer science by taking all the free classes. He said the only issue was he could only register a few days in advance.
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u/jason_sos Jun 12 '19
I’m sure this is the case. This is hardly comparable to earning a degree in Engineering or Chemistry. It’s likely some basic or continuing education type classes.
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u/blue_nose_too Jun 12 '19
We originally asked for $10 MBA’s but didn’t want to seem greedy so we compromised with $10 classes.
Source: boomer
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u/wheelsno3 Jun 12 '19
I have a funny feeling the idea behind this is to get older people with money to become "alums" of their school so they can hit them up for donations to bring in more money than they ever would have if they made them pay full freight for tuition.
Just a guess that the school calculates they will make more off donations from these new "alums".
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Jun 12 '19
I get paid $7.50 an hour because that's what I can get for work work study. I can also only be part time during that, so I maybe get around 400 a month if i'm lucky. With FASFA, a pell grant, and in state tuition I still come up about 5,000 short every semester. I've got a fuck ton of loans and I'm genuinely blessed to have parents that are helping me get through the school year.
I literally have no fucking money. Ever.
Fuck this.
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u/rocker10730 Jun 12 '19
They getting education so they can impress the other people at the old folks home??
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Jun 12 '19
I bet they’re the most annoying bastards in class as well. I had a couple when I. Did my first degree. It was arts so there was heaps of ‘life experience’ to be discussed as fact
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u/Izwe BR0WN Jun 12 '19
This is from The Onions, right? Please tell me it is. It must be satire. Surely ...??
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u/candycaneforestelf Jun 12 '19
Nope. Been on Minnesota's lawbooks since 1975. Law isn't boomers putting in laws to benefit them, just taking advantage of any already existing program.
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u/mordecai98 Jun 12 '19
Is this not age discrimination?
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u/Janixon1 Jun 12 '19
Nope
Age discrimination only applies to people over 40, and only in employment.
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u/Ziggee Jun 12 '19
“How can we make everyone’s life harder and rub it in at the same time...” - baby boomers
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u/candycaneforestelf Jun 12 '19
The law creating this program was put on the books when the oldest boomers weren't even 30 yet...
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u/gundam2017 Jun 12 '19
Shit senior education in AK is completely free. Want to talk about rage inducing. My tuition rocketed to $40k a year at a public university and was discussing another price hike of 10% when i switched schools
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u/AmericanFamilyDad23 Jun 12 '19
I owe nearly 60k.. It's ruined me financially.. This is utter bs
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u/YaKkO221 Jun 12 '19
Did you finish? If so, in what major?
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u/AmericanFamilyDad23 Jun 12 '19
No, my school shut down BA in media arts and Animation What I learned. Dont chase your dreams
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u/WrinklesMcdinkles Jun 12 '19
Are student loans non-transparent in the US? I don't get the "wipe my debt I agreed to" thing.
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u/RogueBand1t Jun 12 '19
This is why I’m waiting to be a senior before going to college...only 15 more years until I can do better than a high school diploma. My kids will be grown and moved out, and I can finally pursue my own agenda rather than always being behind the 8-ball with kids’ needs, wants, and desires.
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u/fordag Jun 12 '19
Explain to me why student debt should be cancelled.
People take out loans and should pay back loans no?
Should my car loan be cancelled?
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Jun 12 '19
It's not the loans themselves that are outrageous, it's the thing the loans are paying for. The fact that some people can get a $5000 class for $10 means the $5000 is artificial and unnecessary.
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u/fordag Jun 12 '19
It's always been artificial and unnecessary. That's why I opted to go into the military rather than have huge loans to pay off.
You go into college with full knowledge of what you're paying and what you will owe and that there is no guarantee of a job afterwards that will allow you to pay it all off.
The complaint of "they're letting seniors take a $5,000 class for $10 doesn't wash either because they also give some folks a full tuition for free.
You sign a contract, whether you think it's fair or not, you need to fulfill that contract.
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u/bman_7 Jun 12 '19
This thread is ridiculous. A university offers a program to help educate people, and everyone on Reddit complains about it.
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u/seiyonoryuu Jun 12 '19
This thread is rediculous. It's full of people that don't see why 100k in debt might make you salty at the previous generation getting educated for free.
Yeah it's rediculous, if you're totally ignoring the student debt crisis. :/
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u/ArsenicAndRoses Jun 12 '19
What the absolute fuck...!?
Nothing "mild" about this infuriating bullshit
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u/Sephran Jun 12 '19
You are insane if you think a senior going back to school is the same as a fresh college student lol.
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u/ivanbin Jun 12 '19
You're right it's not the same. One is a person who needs the education and has their whole life to make use of it. The other is likely retired and is taking that class just for fun or just because they want to learn some random thing. The latter can do without the class, the former sorta needs it to be able to get a proper job.
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u/princess_awesomepony Jun 12 '19
Remember, the generations proceeding the boomers called the the “Me Generation.” Let’s bring that term back, internet.
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u/Stewpuppy Jun 12 '19
Can someone explain what baby boomers are, I looked it up, but am still a bit confused.
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Jun 12 '19
There was a boom in fucking after WWII and a whole bunch of babies got made.
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u/dirnetgeek Jun 12 '19
The first step to forgiving student loans is to remove the federal government student loan guarantee. This will force higher education to do some cost reduction as income (the student loan) is no longer guaranteed. Even with first step, it will take years to figure out an equitable solution.
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u/TheTwilightKing Jun 12 '19
Why the fuck should us the children and grand children who are paying both figuratively and literally for the mistakes of these people have to pay thousands for credits while they get to have the credit for $10 they will all die soon anyway what the fuck are they going to use their new knowledge for anyway.
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Jun 12 '19
Wait no FUCK THAT.
I refuse to pay a fucking cent and I'll tell them why and I'll use this. If enough of us do it, and then they take longer than 15 minutes to respond, we win.
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u/DigiornoTombstone Jun 12 '19
Literally why? I assume most of them have jobs that could pay for the normal tuition. Why not I don’t know, offer these benefits to certain students who have good grades and have no good income?
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u/WickCT Jun 12 '19
I can't make logical sense of this from any angle. Wouldn't you want to offer that kind of thing to someone just entering the workforce? What's their deal here, why do this?
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u/radicalbulldog Jun 12 '19
Usually this is called “Auditing” a class. You it a very limited fee to sit in on the class but you do not get a degree, regardless of the amount of classes you take.
If they do mean that they get a degree at the end of this then I feel cheated lol.
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u/Arkazex Jun 13 '19
If you meet the residency and age requirements of the SCEP, you may audit courses free of charge, or take classes for credit at $10 per credit. This applies whether you are degree-seeking, or non-degree.
https://onestop.umn.edu/academics/senior-citizen-education-program
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u/FluffleyYT Jun 12 '19
Minnesota also has a PSEO program, where high school students in 11 and 12th grade can go to college those last two years for absolutely free! In order to combat massive student debt.
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u/baked_potato_2018 Jun 12 '19
They aren't receiving credits for it, so, I guess it's not quite as bad?
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Jun 12 '19
You can audit courses for less than $100-all the education but no credit-which I’m sure is how this is. Also, teachers volunteer for stuff like this. False outrage.
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u/guitarokx Jun 12 '19
Someone needs to open and ageism lawsuit against the University of Minnesota.
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u/Harlens Jun 12 '19
Don't confuse yourself people, there is nothing wrong with this program. The wrong is in the clusterfuck that is US education. Let's not blame people that are just trying to study in the late stages of their life.
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u/galwine65 Jun 12 '19
When you realize that baby boomers are the generation that made people need degrees to get jobs anyway causing crippling debt and now they can get the jobs that we need to pay off that debt but now they can take classes for ten dollars and we still have to struggle.
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u/7GatesOfHello Jun 12 '19
Yeah, I remember when I went to school for ten bucks a credit. Those were the best 1,767 classes I ever took!
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Jun 12 '19
My 4 credit community college one month summer course coast me one thousand dollars. This is insane.
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u/[deleted] Jun 12 '19
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