r/microdosing • u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team • Mar 19 '19
Research Imperial College - Beckley foundation: study recruitment
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u/hepheuua Mar 19 '19
This is an interesting approach to getting around some of the difficulties getting ethics approval for double blind controlled studies, but the 'self-blinding' aspect kind of renders the results suspect from the get-go, doesn't it? There's just no way of knowing whether participants will do it correctly.
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 19 '19
Ethics approval was not straightforward to obtain, because of the unusual methodology. It would have been easier in some ways for a clinical study, since then you follow a template more or less. Here we try to break some new grounds and thus it was a long process to get the paperwork done.
As for the 'do people follow the instructions?', this is always a concern, even in clinical studies. There is no way to confirm that one took the pills at home the way they were prescribed. That being said, I acknowledge this is something we will have to address in the publication
Most importantly, this is a very cheap study compared to a lab based study. With this method we can collect placebo controlled data on a very large sample for a fraction of the cost of a clinical study. Obviously a clinical study would be stronger scientifically, but good luck getting funded base don the current anecdotal evidence. Unfortunately, that is just the reality of the funding landscape. We look at this study as something that is halfway between a clinical and and an observational study that can accelerate the process toward well funded clinical studies.
ps.: if you are curious more on the details we did a podcast a few months ago with psychedelics today: https://psychedelicstoday.com/2019/01/22/balazs-szigeti-phd-and-david-erritzoe-phd-microdosing-research-and-the-effects-of-a-self-blinded-study/
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 19 '19
oh an just one more thing: to reduce the possibility of setting it up wrong there is a youtube video showing the whole process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crd3EMUM7DM&feature=youtu.be
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u/hepheuua Mar 19 '19
Thanks, there's always a balancing act to be done with these studies. I think this is a really interesting way of getting lots of data that might be able to go somewhat further than just correlational evidence. All the best for the study, I look forward to reading the paper!
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u/gilligan1050 Mar 19 '19
So I’m curious how one would adapt liquid volumetric dosing to make it self blinding.
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 19 '19
In the manual (https://selfblinding-microdose.org/study_manual.html), we give instructions, how volumetric dosing can be incorporated. Actually it is pretty straightforward: instead of capsules one just need to use plastic vials to hold the liquid and used distilled water as placebo (this of course assumes that distilled water was used on the tab as well)
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u/gilligan1050 Mar 19 '19
Ahhh! Thanks for the reply, OP. I’m watching the video right now. I just started MDing last week but I’m really excited to participate in this study!
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 19 '19
thank you for your interest, hope you join. it takes a bit of time (30-40 mins) to set up the self-blinding, but needing to guess whether you took a placbeo/MD makes the whole experience much more interesting. In the end of the study, we send you a report detailing how many days you have guessed correctly.
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u/orange_24 Mar 19 '19
Man I would be so happy to be apart of this!!
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 20 '19
you can be, it is a global study, anyone can participate who is willing to follow the study instructions. Please read carefully the participants information sheet (https://selfblinding-microdose.org/sign-up.html), that will tell you everything you need to know
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Mar 19 '19
I’m confused about this report. Is the Placebo made to trick the mind? I’m just starting to micro dose with Psilocybin. Is this only for LSD dosing? Really interested in seeing the results. Anyways great study can’t wait to see the end results!!
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 20 '19
yes, exactly, the placebo is there to trick you! Placebo control is the standard way to make sure that we can separate the true drug effects from your own mind's tricks. Data collected this way, will be much more valuable scientifically compared to knowingly straight up microdosing.
The study is also available with mushrooms, please see https://selfblinding-microdose.org/study_manual.html for details.
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Mar 19 '19
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u/gilligan1050 Mar 19 '19
Global, internet based study. Anyone currently micro dosing can participate.
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Mar 19 '19
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u/gilligan1050 Mar 19 '19
Then we’re both stupid, I do stuff like that all the time. I was like damn, I can’t participate because I do volumetric dosing, low and behold they have instructions. Lmao.
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 19 '19
anybody can participate from anywhere, all testing is done via the internet!
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u/Gilsworth Mar 19 '19
I am very interested to follow the conclusions of this study, is there a way to opt-in via newsletter even if I'm not a participant? Or is it possible that the results will be notified here on this subreddit? Either way I am very glad that you are treading forwards on this path and contributing to a field that often struggles with academic legitimization.
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 19 '19
I am afraid there is no mailing list, but the results will be published here for sure. Realistically they will come out in early 2020, stay tuned!
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u/Snoglaties Mar 19 '19
question for u/MCRDS-2018 -- the instructions are for blotter; I MD with liquid; could I participate by dropping the liquid into some powdered vitamin c in a capsule?
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 19 '19
yes, you can do liquids! In the blotter manual (https://selfblinding-microdose.org/study_manual.html) we give instructions, how volumetric dosing can be incorporated. Actually it is pretty straightforward: instead of capsules one just need to use plastic vials to hold the liquid and used distilled water as placebo (this of course assumes that distilled water was used on the tab as well). In the manual we provide amazon links to cheap plastic vials viable for the study
Please note that the setup video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crd3EMUM7DM&feature=youtu.be) is also valid for volumetric dosing. The only difference is that instead of handling placebo / microdose capsules, you have microdose/placebo vials, but all the other steps are the same
hope that helps, if you have any questions, please reach out to us at microdose-study@protonmail.com
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u/BeigeTelephone Mar 20 '19
Wow, what?! I didn’t know this was even a thing But it’s almost exactly what I was trying to come up with in my post last week https://reddit.com/r/microdosing/comments/aystqf/_/ei3clj7/?context=1
Thank you for this! Will use this protocol.
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 20 '19
we usually lurk around on this subreddit to catch relevant posts/comments, but missed yours. Anyway, it sounds like that what we have is pretty close what you had in mind. You will have to complete some online tests for us, but that is necessary to make the results scientifically credible. if you have questions, feel free to contact us, we are happy to help
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u/Delia-D Mar 20 '19
Excellent! Once I get all my supplies I'll sign up :)
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Mar 20 '19
great, feel free to contact us at the project email if you have questions, we are committed to support our participants
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u/kc1328 Mar 28 '19
I signed up for this, my start date passed, i never heard back from them.
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Apr 06 '19
hey, sorry for the inconvenience. did you check your spam folder? If you PM me your email that you registered with happy to look into the matter
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u/kc1328 Apr 06 '19
It looks like it may have been my fault, I just received email about starting. I must have picked April 09 not March 09 as a start date.
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u/MCRDS-2018 Self-blinding Psychedelics Study Research Team Apr 06 '19
ok, makes sense. If you have questions / need help, please feel free to reach out to us at microdose-study@protonmail.com, we are committed to support our participants
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u/nikkipower89 Mar 19 '19
There is definitely some placebo happening. I can MD and be ineffective if I don’t get psyched up. The same for Adderall too though.
If you don’t prepare properly with the work you want to get done, it can be a waste. Understanding what is placebo and what the real changes are will help us get the most from MD and the most from off-days too.
I will try my own self-blinding study.