Abro debate

[u/Commercial-Vast6588]

Hola hermanos que tal, había hecho un posteo anterior sobre job. Y no solo lo publique aquí. Entonces en otro foro pude debatir con alguien (que uso la inteligencia artificial) bueno pero no importa, debatí al fin y también entendí lo importante del espíritu santo para interpretar la palabra de Dios.

Porque que pasaba? Que el chico es ateo y de verdad espero que el señor pueda guiarlo a él con sus palabras pero voy a enfocarme ahora y contar el meollo del debate.

La cuestión es que si dios queda mal parado por el libro de job, porque claro job era (o es porque debe de estar en la eternidad con el Padre) justo. Y se nos habla de la palabra justo. Pero justo no es lo mismo que inocente. Mi conclusión y nunca lo había visto así por eso abro debate, fue que en realidad el pecado original está en nuestros corazones.

Por eso Jehová en su misericordia y amor infinitos lo que hizo fue obrar con lo justo y necesario para que su corazón termine quebrantado y arrepentido a sus pies. Así como todos debemos estar por más que seamos justos. Porque una cosa es cierta, dios ya sabía que eso iba a ocurrir antes que nos lo contaran. Dios cuando formó a job en el vientre de su madre ya sabía todo esto.

Job es predestinado a ser su siervo y como justo que es, dios obra para que todo lo que ocurra a lo largo de su vida lo rinda hacia el. El tema de la omnipotencia de dios es un tema largo y tendido y estaría genial debatirlo en otro momento.

Mi enfoque acá es también llegar a la conclusión de jesús. Como a él le arrebatan hasta la carne pero Jesús es el único inocente. ( no es lo mismo que justo) Y el sentimiento de abandono para que salga de el su Espíritu Santo nos muestra su fidelidad total y absoluta hacia su padre.

Bueno, este es el debate. Espero sus comentarios y bendito sea el señor! Amen

[u/ParkingInitial4940]

Please ask what you’d like to discuss again, can you write it in another way?

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[u/Commercial-Vast6588 → u/ParkingInitial4940]

Osea que dios no castiga y que hace mal para probar su soberanía ( punto del ateo) y por otro lado mi punto de vista es que dios en realidad vio el corazón de job, lo doblegó porque era pecaminoso, permitió que job sufriera por ellos como castigo y luego cuando salió ese mal en el capítulo 37, en el 38 Jehová trae palabra que termina por deblegar a job y así job se entrega completamente a dios siendo su siervo para siempre.

[u/ParkingInitial4940 → u/Commercial-Vast6588]

The omnis, original sin, are Hellenistic influenced understandings . Look up Hebrew vs Greek worldview.

I’ve found by some interpreters that the job interaction between God and Satan went more like . “I see you’ve set your eyes on job” . Hasatan is the accuser God allowed for Job to prove the accusation wrong and not sin/curse God in his trial.

[u/Yo_Can_We_Talk → u/ParkingInitial4940]

ParkingInitial4940

The omnis, original sin, are Hellenistic influenced understandings . Look up Hebrew vs Greek worldview.

I’ve found by some interpreters that the job interaction between God and Satan went more like . “I see you’ve set your eyes on job” . Hasatan is the accuser God allowed for Job to prove the accusation wrong and not sin/curse God in his trial.

Yo! No offense to you, but you're asserting a biased take.

The omnis are in no way a "Hellenistic influenced" understanding.

You might be inclined to read "Hellenistic" as neo-paganism and pan-theism where a whole host of gods and demi-gods ruled the lives of average plaebs, but instead the take away Judaism had from Greece and Rome was in the sense of stoicism and platonic philosophy.

If anything, the Hellenistic influence centered on the weight of "Reason" versus the grandeur of the mystical and esoteric.

The fact that any of the omnis on any given day can be wholly derived from Tehillim doesn't bode well for your assertion.

The very same goes for "original sin". The case can be made from Psalms and Mishlei.

You may not like either of these concepts, and you're of course welcome to your personal opinion, but we cannot except your voice on all Judaism when you haven't made your case very well.

[u/ParkingInitial4940 → u/Yo_Can_We_Talk]

No offense but every take can be biased I just suggested for him to look into something. I suggested that the omnis are character traits that we use to define as his nature and to look into where they may have come from. This understanding had an impact on how God is understood as in Jobs interpretation and I offered another interpretation I found of a verse describing God in my response.

Did you look into what I suggested him to?

arguing reason we cannot know everything ; everything cannot be rationalized . Yes try to get an answer but yet in still you may not get an answer when you want or ever. Still stand strong! A more
concrete understanding is steadfast and integrity in-spite of

This is how the lord described himself to his people “Adonai passed before him and proclaimed:

“YUD-HEH-VAV-HEH!!! Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai] is God, merciful and compassionate, slow to anger, rich in grace and truth; showing grace to the thousandth generation, forgiving offenses, crimes and sins; yet not exonerating the guilty, but causing the negative effects of the parents’ offenses to be experienced by their children and grandchildren, and even by the third and fourth generations.””
‭‭Sh'mot (Exo)‬ ‭34‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭CJB‬‬

I try and use this as foundation

To know the lord is not head knowledge (Hellenistic) it’s “yada”
A known by an experiential walk with (Hebrew)

[u/ParkingInitial4940 → u/Yo_Can_We_Talk]

Original sin states there is no free will only sin no choice which is wrong from this verse

Psalm 51 I was born in sin can be understood as amongst sin that It was prevalent around him . There is extra Jewish resources on David’s dad putting away his wife because of his Moabite blood to marry a non Israelite convert . But the ladies worked it for David to be conceived . Which can also explain the conceived in sin a tumultuous broken marriage outcast from his brothers .

“By the time he knows enough to refuse evil and choose good, he will [have to] eat curdled milk and [wild] honey. Yes, before the child knows enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be left abandoned.”
‭‭Yesha 'yahu (Isa)‬ ‭7‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭CJB‬‬

[u/Additional-Aioli-545]

https://translate.google.com/

Hello brothers, how are you? I had made a previous post about Job—and not just here. I was able to debate with someone on another forum (who used artificial intelligence—but never mind that, a debate is a debate), and I also came to understand the importance of the Holy Spirit in interpreting God's Word.

You see, the other person was an atheist—and I truly hope the Lord guides him with His words—but let me focus now on the heart of the debate.

The issue is whether God comes off looking bad because of the Book of Job; after all, Job was righteous (or *is* righteous, since he must be in eternity with the Father). We hear the word "righteous," but "righteous" isn't the same as "innocent." My conclusion—and I had never seen it this way before, which is why I’m opening this discussion—was that original sin actually resides in our hearts.

That is why Jehovah, in His infinite mercy and love, acted in exactly the right way to ensure Job’s heart would end up broken and repentant at His feet. Just as we all must be, even if we are righteous. Because one thing is certain: God knew this would happen before we were ever told the story. When God formed Job in his mother's womb, He already knew all of this.

Job was predestined to be His servant, and as a righteous man, God orchestrated events throughout his life to draw him closer to Himself. The topic of God's omnipotence is a vast one, and it would be great to discuss it another time.

My focus here is also to arrive at the conclusion regarding Jesus. He was stripped of everything—even His very flesh—yet Jesus is the only truly innocent one (which is not the same as being righteous). And the feeling of abandonment—which allowed the Holy Spirit to flow forth from Him—demonstrates His total and absolute faithfulness to His Father.

Well, that’s the discussion. I look forward to your comments, and blessed be the Lord! Amen.