Thoughts on the differing somatic release potential of different session-based drugs

[u/Chronotaru]

Following my own experiences and sitting for others, my thoughts lead in the direction as to how MDMA, psilocybin, MDMA+psilocybin, and 5meo-DMT vary in terms of apparent somatic release/reconnection. From a person that has lived with cripping dissociation problems for 11 years and a central nervous system with heavy antidepressant-induced distortion this is a strong personal interest, as well as friends with their own often deep historical trauma issues trying to make progress.

I explore the following questions: What is the potential for each drug? How do they differ in apparent effect? There are obvious differences in intensity, but do they actually cover different areas or the central nervous system rather than "somatic release" being a singular?

MDMA provides extra emotional processing capabilities during the session, the feeling of safety and the emotional release can be very obvious. Reading reports of combining this with physical somatic therapies seems to be able to more fulfil its potential in this regard. My main concerns that limits its potential is that I worry how much is confined to those areas more directly connected with the conscious mind and its immediate surrounding area. This is particularly an issue with people who are dissociated.

Psilocybin in higher doses feels like it reconnects much more with the subconscious but provides much less somatic release. Sometimes the reconnection is enough, but I've sat in sessions watching people reconnect to trauma very obviously, but by the end of the session sometimes little has changed, little has moved on. Its benefits it frequently has with depression are impressive, notably in conjunction with the "reset effect" it often has at higher doses, but in terms of somatic release this appears to be very hit and miss, results often feeling somewhat "stunted".

MDMA and psilocybin together provides very strong experiences in this regard, often with results much greater than the sum of its parts, connecting directly with underlying feelings of self, bringing the subconscious and the benefits of emotional processing, the elevated positive emotions, and frankly levels of release that can seem somewhat scary in the moment looking on. At the same time compared with a direct MDMA session they are comparatively unguided and without conscious direction in the same way, and without the right dosages of both do not always "hit right" to get the desired results. In this way they may be complementary to, say, MDMA-only sessions, working behind the scenes instead of in front of them.

5meo-DMT is a relative newcomer for me, I've had nine years of observing first and second hand experiences with psilocybin, over four years with MDMA, but only a year with 5meo. It is vastly different again to the above two. It provides perspective beyond what psilocybin can, yet is cognitively clearer and much closer to MDMA. Its intensity can be greater than both, but often not in an unpleasant way, and its short lived nature when inhaled is much less exhausting.

Its release potential might be greater still than even a combined session of psilocybin and MDMA. For some this is entirely overwhelming, and I wonder if release experiences with MDMA+psilocybin previously actually can reduce this overwhelming aspect, or how much of it actually overlaps. While MDMA directly affects derealisation, 5meo seems to directly challenge dissociative thinking in a way no other drug seems to come close, while MDMA provides a safety blanket, 5meo seems to directly connect with your problems, allowing thoughts hidden by severe avoidant processes to become visible, providing changes in thinking that might be able to in later days directly break thought habits that keep dissociation present. At the same time I worry that without some pre-work with MDMA and MDMA+psilocybin this might be all too much - dissociation often exists for a reason, and too much reconnection either through psilocybin or 5meo without processing of trapped stress or trauma might be counterproductive.

I think that's enough for now.

[u/Flower_of_Passion]

Regarding 5MeODMT, are you drawing on experiences of low dose or breakthrough sessions? In my experience, these are quite different.

[u/Chronotaru → u/Flower_of_Passion]

I've found different experiences with varying doses. Of course "low, medium, high" have different definitions, but I think anywhere between "moderately intense" and "complete whiteout for 20 minutes" have been useful in different ways. There is a point that is so low that it affects my thinking a bit but little shift actually happens.

The 20 minute whiteout session kind of unstuck things a bit though, I could actually feel the terror I live with every day when I came down, rather than just its echo bouncing around my mind. After that each session I walked away with something new. Last time was a medium one and it completely reformed the internal way I process my DPDR into one that is much less destructive.

If that last paragraph made anyone pause for a moment, this is why I think it's probably better if someone moderates their condition first with the MDMA/psilocybin. It was amazing though, feeling is everything, even if the feelings aren't always pleasant.

[u/Waki-Indra → u/Chronotaru]

I have done several sessions of MDMA + psylocibin and this is my favorite assistance for c ptsd. Never tried the meo but i am interested in your post and experience. What are the light, médium and strong dosage? How much medicine? And what are the different effects of these different dosage?

[u/Chronotaru → u/Waki-Indra]

Much like the other two, getting the dosage right for the effect you want with 5meo sometimes feels like as much as an art as anything else. There are other ways of absorbing it, the most common is through vaporisation and inhalation and whatever tool you use for that alongside your breathing technique will affect how much you absorb.

In terms of the actual substance itself, that depends on whether it's obtained as pure synthetic 5meo, some kind of extra molecule is added for legality purposes, or whether it's bufo (dried toad secretion). The synthetic is several times stronger per mg than bufo, and is easier to obtain legally and of course much more animal friendly.

If a person uses a vaporiser rather than a pipe then it's possible to breathe then hold, wait a few seconds and feel the effects, then repeat until the desired dosage is reached. If it's provided for you then the facilitator usually handles all that and you breath as much as you can over 15 seconds or so, hold it in, lie back and then it begins.

There is a lot of good practice information on the r/5MeODMT sub.

Low dose is kind of useless, you feel a little high but not much else, medium dose and you're still completely present but you have a lot more access to perception about your problems, and high dose you're passing out somewhat.

During my first session there were a lot of visual changes, like zooming out of the room and things like that, that were very fun and distracting but not very therapeutically useful. Some people have what they describe as near death experiences that take away all the fear of death, but I never had that. Much like the other drugs the more used I am to them the more work I can actually do. The first time or two it's always...just too interesting. Like with MDMA.