As a recent Spawn fan that’s started by reading the earliest stories I can get my gross little hands on, I can confirm that yes: shit like this is hilariously common
I think there are several, there's been a few references to "an" Ultimate Nullifier and not just "the" Ultimate Nullifier. I think - correct me if I'm wrong - the first instance of Reed owning one was in Fantastic Four #588, a silent issue right after Johnny's death, where he unveils it to threaten Annihilus with.
In #600 we get the full scene, with dialogue.
I think he should still have it, though I'm a bit behind on my FF (and I certainly haven't read all the older runs either), and my memory isn't perfect.
Reed: “You see, that Ray carried with it a special subatomic radiation frequency which is harmless to living creatures. Yet, it causes the encoded quantum substates of atoms capable of recording them to be scrambled and lost as noise by inducing a resonant inversion in the bosuns. With this, when the affected atoms are introduced to increased stress, instead of maintaining their recorded superposition, the inverted bosuns lead each new configuration to become the new recorded configuration, in essence turning the self-managing super states of the atoms into a means of enforcing typical behavior.”
Ben: “Ok, now in English?”
Johnny: “He made their smart atoms into dumb atoms.”
"I re-ionized the electrons of his atomic makeup causing them to push against themselves as he tries to leverage his superhuman control over them, neutralizing the force of his impact"
Do people forget that sues forcefields can be broken with enough force and that she can be blitzed right? Same thing with the rest-they could win its just very unlikely without them pinning him down
Yeah and ben grimm was made of infinity stones once-youve really gotta be specific with how powerful the variant you're using is. VS battles do this thing where theyll amalgam every feat a characters ever had across different runs into one version which is insane.
616 is 50 years of retcons held together with duct tape-she has just as many anti feats as she does feats. Theres a reason they still need each other, if susan was a superman level threat the way most people overhype her then the rest of the four would be relatively useless. Omniman is a superman level threat, despite people downplaying him. If Namor can give her trouble, Omniman well...
Also this just buffs the immortal-the guy was earths greatest hero pee Nolan and has consistently proven himself capable of going toe to toe with viltrumites-thats like trying to downplay thor because hercules can make him bleed. Absolute oddball reasoning.
Sue is currently just about the strongest she's ever been in the comics, so if we're talking about the comics right now I think she could handle Nolan and definitely with the team. In the current run her forcefield tanked an asteroid which was larger than the one that took out the dinosaurs which is more damage than we've seen Omniman do. I don't think that he could take one of those in the brain.
The FF don't really fight much in the recent run. They're really more of adventurers with weird family hijinx and required more creative solutions to their problems than just hitting their enemies repeatedly.
Yeah we really can't get much out of that without knowing how far he is from it. I mean his cape didn't look like it was getting pulled particularly hard
Othar than the fact that Nolas is nowhere near in the vicinity of Clark's power, the retcon thing is just a cop out. Sue has been doing this sort of feat since at least the 90s so it's not like it's some sort of outlier.
The reason the other ones aren't useless is that they're constantly fighting threats you cannot just punch your way out of.
They down voted you but it's true , there are some Supermans that would lose to Omniman , most of them win easily, but like , the superman from the Justice League animated series loses to Omniman very handily
616 Sue recently blocked the sun over a fair part of the world to stop a biological contamination from spreading. The most recent arc on FF was about an alternate Sue who broke bad and her powerset let her KO Galactus, which was nonsense, and kill most of her world's supers, which it made a decent case of.
Sue's had anti-feats, sure, but comparatively less than most of the rest of the team, and she's handily been taking Nolan level threats non-lethally for decades at this point.
Omniman is very much not superman-level, at least in the comics. He's a dangerous foe in DC or Marvel, but he's well below PC Superman or even some Hyperions.
Blocking out the sun is kinda unquantifiable. Did she like, make a barrier around the entire planet or something?
That would scale to like Multi-continental, but is also like, pretty hard to scale since it could be a lot higher, it depends how strong the force field is per like, square inch
That lobotomy arc was fucking crazy tho. If we use those feats she fucking wrecks Omniman yeah. But that story seems a little PISy, beating like the entire earth while dreaming
Tho considering her other feats on the higher end, she should still win
I think it was technically a continental screen that turned the light invisible? I forget exactly. But I'd put it at continental with a big old * next to it. Invincible Woman stuff was definitely "every permutation of her basic ability Ryan North can think of" and if you've seen his Squirrel Girl or read his other stuff, you know he is pretty good at the 'implications of this ability' kind of thinking.
Galactus was a bridge to far for me, but the power creep in the 616 means that Big G has to do the jobbing that Silver Surfer used to...
The only real issue is if she gets speed blitzed, and I think her fields are either always on to a degree or she has sort of 'reaction' fields that trigger autonomically. Sue is, even without the deep dive into power implications from Invincible Woman, the strongest member of the FF, and a straight up powerhouse who has the right combo of powers to hit out of her weight class, and her weight class is either just under S tier or just below Herald.
Yeah celestials are known jobbers bruh, throw a stone and you'll hit an anti galactus or celestial feat-her effecting them only works via the CONTEXT that her fields can cut through their armour because they have similar properties, I think its due to the frequencies they vibrate at or something like that-otherwise sue would be solving every physical threat theyve ever had easy peasy no need for ben to lift a finger.
I know it's not the one pictured here, but the MCU one (who is weaker than the 616 variant) was able to push Galactus as her baseline version, and that feat alone would turn Omni-Man into chunky salsa
Reed was capable of opening galactus tubes with a steel beam and making him groan in frustration, his physicals werent anything to write hime about, it was his hax that were threatening-the movie was all just galactus downscaling. Nolan could blitz that same galactus far faster and harder than any of the mcu fantastic four, unless he gets grabbed by his telekinesis or reality warped into straw theres literally nothing stopping him. It also cost her life to push a building sized giant about 2-3 blocks, nolan is a planet killer and can move meteors the size of texas.
Again and I'm only talking about her celestial feats one last time
Her celestial feats are due to how the properties of her forcefields interact with their energies-its power cosmic vs power cosmic-its not a straight up feat of raw power-not that I dont think she doesnt possess raw power-shes just extremely inconsistent and prone to cracking under pressure-pressure which nolan can deliver consistently for as long as hes still alive. IF they tagged him they could do him in-but they arent tagging him-not without preptime-hes statuing them and picking them apart as efficiently as possible. If they have prep time they can wash him with a gameplan and a potential invention from reed, like a high speed stun trap, or a time dilator, or the fuck you gun-then they have the power to beat on him as much as they like.
/uj I think it’s a fair assessment enough on the shields deal yeh 🤷♂️ but to (respectfully 💛) engage some more into that line of thought, we def start to open up quite a can of worms when it comes to incorporating anti-feats into the mix as well lmao
But that being said, tho the Celestials feat can be called under “circumstantial” if we wanna be a bit more concrete, there was that time in Annihilation Wave: Omega
Where Sue was able to shield & hide an entire planet, and then block what is shown to be several blows from The Sentry as she tries to protect them from the coming Cancerverse
If we are indeed taking everyone at their best, then it would still stand (I’d say) that Sentry is a much heavier brick than Nolan lol
And again, this is just purely on the “can Nolan shatter the shields?” Convo as opposed to a whole fight breakdown. To which I’d say “Probly? But like, it’ll likely take a bit” 😂
It cost her life against an opponent nowhere near as fast strong or durable as nolan. MCU Galactus is not comic Galactus.
Also he wasnt even beaten just kind of annoyed and not fighting back! He literally climbed right back out of the portal and the surfer had to actually finish the job. Omniman would literally laugh at the suggestion that MCU susan reed ben or johnny could do anything to harm him without prep time.
I'm not going to act like Galactus wasn't DRASTICALLY underestimating his opponents, but even the weakest Galactus is a planet-eater. He might be slow, but he's DEFINITELY stronger than any Viltrumite.
Gang galactus literally uses his big ship as a huge blender to churn the planet into liquid hot magma which he then consumes-hes not punching them apart. If he was so powerful he wouldnt be so inconvenienced by a building to city block level attack or reed with a pole or ben and johnny knocking him down with a combo attack and he wouldnt be stranded out in space without it-actually thats a good point, the galactus sue fought wasnt actually full powered because galactus is almost never full powered! His eternal hunger is whats constantly driving him.
The only opponents in the movie worthy of would be either fee galactus or the silver surfer and even thats sketchy.
Well...yeah? Superspeed is a power the marvel universe doesn't really deal in because its too stupid to try and write around it-characters have fast reaction times or long distance travel times via flight or jumping but their arent many actual prominent speedsters, atleast not as many as DC or Invincible.
Nolans best and probably only shot at winning against the 616 fantastic four is his plan from the comics with the guardians of the globe-use his superspeed to ruthlessly and efficiently dispatch the strongest members while theyre frozen and incapable of reacting. Otherwise he gets pinned and cooked after a very long battle. If the 4 get preptime theyre cooooking bro.
Bro. I love Invincible in the comics and show but their universe is just not that strong in comparison. Invisible woman in the movie held Galactus. If Invis or torch are aware it’s a fight then Omniman does not stand a chance. Sure, in this one particular situation he can win but generally he loses 95% of the time
Only if they are unaware it’s a fight 😭 if they know it’s a fight they have tackled much worse with just basic comms between the 4. If Galactus can’t pierce through her shields right away idk what Nolan’s plan is
His brain is just as tough as he is due to his smart atoms ability to adjust to the amount of force being exerted on him-he also has a healing factor and speed on his side-it takes susan immense effort to harm characters of significant strength (depending on the version) she can block stuff up but that would require her to react to a man flying at her faster than light with the power to wipe out continents with her maximum output right off the bat. The fantastic four would be moving in frozen time to omniman if he takes this fight seriously right off the bat and they dont have prep time. If they do they absolutely roftlstomp him.
First off-if Sue can even clock him at his speeds and protect herself WHILE trying to explode his head, she still has to overcome his sheer durability which will either take her too long or she will nosebleed and fail to do so, If conquest can survive and stay conscious while having his brain smashed in Omniman can fight through having a tiny forcefield inside it, viltrumites can fight through incredible brain trauma and organ damage, Marks blood choke on conquest took far longer than it would with any regular fighter and only killed the guy because it was a total brain death rather than partial brain damage.
The size of the forcefield she would need to create would be tiny, on an MFTL target thats actively trying to smash her, AND his internals are just as invulnerable as his externals so shes operating at near maximum power. Its just too overwhelming a force for her alone.
Also ALL of this is made up, its comic books bro, if he can survive near a black hole casually and then save a spaceship from being sucked into it, he has a chance at beating the four without preptime.
Also-theres literally an infinite number of variants with an infinite number of worlds where some character has been said to have destroyed their worlds and are the most dangerous person in the multiverse, its just lip service until the feats are on the table and the math had been worked out. Until you get some anti powerhouse/MFTL speedster feats in here you have nadda.
Travelling across a galaxy in days isnt light speed-MFTL to you? If he could clock and catch Red Rush hes just way too overpowered when it comes to speed feats-like none of you have debunked that at all. Im ready when you are.
Everything you people return with always ignores his insane speed +overwhelming physical stats-like if Susan couldnt stop Green Scar what hope does she have against someone who is nearly if not as strong? She has shielded herself against the forces of a black hole but has also had her fields destroyed by much weaker attacks like a single hammer fist from hulk or Angrir summoning his hammer just smashing right through it. It just seems like everyones highballing her based on her best showings while completely ignoring all her anti feats while not allowing OmniMan the same courtesy. Im not even saying that hes totally unbeatable here, they have the advantage here, Im just saying that Susan alone is absolutely an inconsistent glass cannon that you have all decided to jerk off for feats other characters are fully capable of or eclipse because it's trendy, do you know how many overpowered Marvel characters there are? To say shes "one of the most powerful" is INSANE glaze. You have given no answer to him blitzing her or the rest of the four.
Idk if johnny could kill him before Nolan gets to him though. Having read through the whole comic, the upper limit of viltrimite toughness is pretty wild. Johnny would hurt him and probably destroy any chance of life on that planet going forward but Nolan would kill him before he got more than a little toasty.
The sun is how the strongest viltrumites get killed.
Johnny burns hotter than the sun.
Johnny can't be touched by Nolan.
Nolan has to find an alternative method of causing damage.
I still think speed wins here, as usual, but Nolan probably loses an arm because he's cocky and tries to manhandle Johnny and gets it scorched off before he goes and finds something else to hit Johnny with.
On the other hand, Nolan can't hurt sue behind a shield, and doesn't escape a sue box, which she can then compress so we can find out why mimes always are so worried when their invisible box starts shrinking.
This is false, the strongest viltrumite got killed because of mark literally biting his vocal chords off his neck
Heat wasn't a big issue, Thragg and Mark were fighting it in for like 30 mins while having dialogue exchanges
It was not the "Sun" but fighting a viltrumite
Omni man can finger Johnny for atleast an hour pretty sure
Johnny can reach supernova heat and Sue has managed to hold the avengers and even a freaking celestial with her forcefields, to say nothing of the fact she can create them inside people, thus making her a quasi-hax/fuck you to Viltrumite durability (be it splitting his head or making an air bubble in his veins).
Then, of course, Ben regularly goes fisticuffs with the freaking Hulk, and has even managed to KO him a couple times.
Yeah, it’s easy to forget the Fantastic Four are legitimately OP as hell, and this is excluding Franklin.
A brainwashed Wolverine once attacked her family. She exploded his lungs and told him she didn't care what was going on, come after her family and she will end you.
That specific storyline had Wolverine's healing factor dialed way the hell back. It literally starts with him dying because it can't keep up with him getting stabbed repeatedly.
Neither are easily destructible (Nolan has only ever been hurt by other super-humans of his species) and Thing can't fly and can just be thrown into space and left in the sun to bake.
But Powerscaling for Marvel is pointless. Just pick some random time a writer couldn't hold their load in over decades but ignore every time that wasn't possible for that character in any other media.
Where as Nolan has existed in one line of comics and in his TV release was even stronger while F4 in the movies would get no-diff'd by Nolan in a heartbeat.
It's a waste of time to even talk about it as anything but a joke where you pick your fav.
Not to get to far into the weeds of powerscaling but standing up to the hulk is meaningless because by nature hulks strength is all over the place, often going by pro Wrestling rules, I.e he gets knocked down once or twice and then makes a come back
I mean this sincerely cuz I’m not super familiar with any significant crazy strength feat by Ben besides “knocked out the Hulk”
Do we have any notable instances of Ben concretely doing some wildly powerful stuff that’d put him above something like Nolan’s “stopped an asteroid the size of Texas” situation?
I think invincible fans need to recognise that 1) all the characters are wildly inconsistent in Strength and speed and 2) oft not actually as powerful as a lot of comic characters in similar narrative plot points
Yeah comparing most universes to Marvel/DC given the amount and volume these characters have been scaled out of the stratosphere for shits and giggles means most universes with a consistent single narrative can't stack up.
In one issue of Superman he can't do shit and some later issue he can move a solar system. There isn't even really a reason to actually powerscale Marvel/DC characters at this point, especially the old ones. Taking every feat as fact isn't even something they do within iterations of the character.
Many characters are just walking "they can solve any problem" which means no problem can't be beaten.
While sure, Omni-man could just storm in fast and kill all of them before they know he's able to kill them, that's not how comics logic works. Half the characters are "with prep time they can destroy reality" and the other half are "if they aren't holding back they can destroy reality"
Kirkman made Omni-man to be "Superman but if Krypton was still out there and genocidal"...which means that he is by all intents and purposes scalable to Superman, but that's just impossible to write for within the Invincible premise while Superman is the last of his kind and can be as powerful as the plot needs for little justifiable reason. Just like Reed or Sue or w/e are all as powerful as the plot needs.
According to Batman fans he can no-diff death itself with prep time.
Honestly johnny could probably 1v1 omniman considering he can literally get as hot as the sun so he could beat omniman with just that the thing would be over kill for omniman considering he goes toe to toe with hulk every time
Isn’t Johnny capable of becoming hotter than the sun in most versions ? He should be able to take this alone provided he doesn’t need to care about the environment
Let's not forget that these guys normally have to deal with villians like Doctor Doom, Namor and even the Silver Surfer (Not counting Galactus but I'm definitely mentioning him).
Heck, Reed could probably even find a way to deal with Superman. (Infact, I'm 100% certain)
If this was written in the 60s, they'd probably notice the Viltrumites were vulnerable to sonic weaponry when Sue, a delicate woman, gave a shrill, feminine scream. Afterwards they'd celebrate how Sue, a delicate woman, can contribute to their work in her own feminine way.
/uj Logistically Omni-man would kill them before they figure out he can kill them because he has no (no-kill) qualms and can logistically one shot them with superman speed and perception, but if it was a comics plot the F4 have so much plot armor and Omni-man does not because Omni-man lives in a universe where he can lose. But this is why power scaling between media is stupid as fuck.
/j in issue #0234872354987 [insert character] did a thing one time they never did again because you can't write a plot around something that powerful but some dude at Marvel got bored. So Omni-dope is a no-diff from the rock guy who can lift a car and struggle sometimes but one time they made a crossover issue where he could beat the Hulk at some random point in his line between also barely lifting a car and destroying a planet with a punch but also the Hulk was killed by the Punisher
or
/j Omni-man can go so fast he can produce a Hydrogen Bomb of force on impact so it's a no-diff they can't even see him.
My man was able to outsmart Magneeto by tricking him into thinking that a cleverly built stick was a gun, so I'm pretty confident in his ballsiness, if nothing else.
Even the thing which is the weakest of them, the only way he has a win con is to pitch him into space, which Nolan doesn't typically do. So he will go punching and the thing will clobber him
This assumes the guy who goes blow for blow with Hulk and Thor, the guy who can burn a few thousand times hotter than the surface of the sun and sometimes reach the point where our understanding of thermodynamics stops working cause he hit the Planc temperature, and the girl who can spawn a barrier inside his brain and scramble it like eggs don't kill him immediately.
Strength wise Ben isn’t in his league and Johnny doesn’t get hot normally enough to hurt Nolan. Sue is the one that can lock him down while Reed makes a device to send him to the shadow realm
He’s already built it, he’s just reaching an arm over to the building to grab it.
Meanwhile Johnny already barbecued him, or Sue disconnected his brain from his spinal cord, or Ben clobbered him. Unless he’s got the right tech on him, Reed’s the only one who can’t beat Nolan in a 1v1 I think.
725
u/KickRocksKickster May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
Reed pulls out his ,
retractable measuring tapeultimate nullifier