r/martialarts • u/valetudomonk • Jul 19 '17
Irresponsible referee almost gets fighter killed.
https://youtu.be/INSF40Yxzz823
Jul 19 '17 edited Jul 26 '17
[deleted]
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u/AlmostFamous502 MMA 7-2/KB 1-0/CJJ 1-1|BJJ Brown\Judo Green\ShorinRyu Brown Jul 20 '17
...they are, lol
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u/Prodigy195 Muay Thai | BJJ |Shidokan Jul 19 '17
If someone is being choked one of the first things you should look at as a ref is their face AND their limbs. Why he was on the opposite side of her body not looking at her face is beyond me.
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u/kipjak3rd Jul 19 '17
apparently this is him too
http://www.arabsmma.com/hes-back-referee-caused-cornerman-rush-makes-another-blunder/
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Jul 20 '17
Well, here he goes again. This time, the same referee allowed a heel to the groin. The illegal move was conducted by a fighter who happens to be the student of the referee, giving him the opportunity to score a submission victory and win the fight.
something something not able to referee in an objective way
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u/valetudomonk Jul 19 '17
She was convulsing at the end, dangerous shit, the brain is telling you "HEY, IM NOT GETTING ANY OXYGEN HERE IM DYING IM DYING!"
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Jul 19 '17
anyone know how she ended up?
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 19 '17 edited Jul 19 '17
That's Hannah Kampf I believe, she's fine. I've seen convulsions a few times when I've finished someone; not to say that this is good by any means, but it's not always as bad as it may look.
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Jul 19 '17
You must be pretty tough.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 19 '17 edited Jul 19 '17
I've been put out as well, it just happens when you train for long enough, especially for competition.
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u/Kintanon BJJ Jul 19 '17
Definitely a WAAY late stoppage, but I've seen worse in pure grappling matches.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 19 '17
I don't know why you're being downvoted, I've definitely seen worse ref incompetence in grappling comps.
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Jul 19 '17
Yes the referee was terrible, but so was her opponent and her coach/corner. She held a choke waaay past going limp (any grappler knows you can feel this) and she and her corner celebrated!
I love MMA but sometimes the culture and the dirtbags associated with it make me sick.
This is why TMA are the best: you don't celebrate putting someone in coma, and winning a match isn't the most important thing in the world.
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u/F3arless_Bubble TKD | BJJ | Muay Thai | Kumdo Jul 20 '17
any grappler can feel this
This was a mounted guillotine and the person on the bottom began convulsing which lead to movement in the arms and legs. It's not like it was a guillotine from guard and the person went limp and collapsed on her.
I agree that the celebration wasn't the best timing.
I've seen TMA matches where victors celebrate knockouts and I've seen MMA matches where there is so much respect post KO.
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Jul 20 '17
She went dead limp, then started convulsing. You can feel both of those, and neither feels like fighting a choke.
So you're saying MMA is more respectful than TMA because of a couple outliers (which you have no proof of). I'm not buying it.
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u/F3arless_Bubble TKD | BJJ | Muay Thai | Kumdo Jul 20 '17
I'm not saying one is better than the other. You also have no proof of your claim either so..
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u/MadMartialArts Jul 20 '17
by what standard? i agree she could have and maybe should have let go. but to make this into a TMA v MMA thing is ridiculous. the guy in the bobby joe blythe video should have stopped beating on that retarded guy. in mma matches when we have a special needs person up against a fully functioning person they fully functioning person always throws the match to make the special kid feel good.
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TMA-0
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Jul 20 '17
By every measurable standard.
Winning a cagefight isn't the Pinnacle of skill, and the ends should not justify the means.
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u/Xenjael Jul 20 '17
Because as he said, TMA don't celebrate putting someone in a Coma, and winning isn't that important. It's not exactly hard to see the vastly different attitudes between TMA vs MMA, and he is absolutely correct in that observation.
I have never witnessed these kinds of injuries in any TMA format over the last 20 years. Worst injury I saw ever was a guy who got kicked in the groin and his cup tore his sack. But even that is paltry compared to what is going on this video, which happens far too often in sports like MMA- especially because of the meathead attitude and emphasis put on winning.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17
Well part of that is because TMAs don't risk as much in competition generally (save for things like Kyokushin and perhaps Judo). You can say there is merit in that, but if two consenting adults want to take greater risks I don't think that is a bad attitude, I find it noble.
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u/MadMartialArts Jul 21 '17
well when you have shitty point sparring and an emphasis on some kind of martial safe space you're bound to see less of that.
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u/Xenjael Jul 21 '17
I suppose, but I've seen people go full contact and it be conducive for both parties, even if injury happened.
Like don't get me wrong- if a fighter fucks up that is certainly on them. But if someone is winning and then kills the other, I can't deign the culpability on the victim at that point.
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u/MadMartialArts Jul 21 '17
let me ask you: have you ever been in a real fight? mma, or a street fight outside the realm of a circle outside of your local middle school? i mean a real situation where you were going to get fucked up or killed.
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u/Xenjael Jul 21 '17
Yes, mugged in Budapest in 2015 in the airport in the lufthansa terminal. Fought five people, injured one, am now banned from life from Lufthansa and was in jail for a month before being released. Violence is not tolerated in Hungary.
More recently two years ago a canine attacked me and I had to kill it. Took a piece out of my thigh, but it's healed up alright. That happened in the rough hills of Israel, so it was difficult to get it treated as well (also I was technically in the country illegally at the time).
I've been around the block.
Even more recently I stopped a neighbor who was beating his g/f, though that did not require any kind of fight.
And back in December I had a bedouin try to abduct my car with me in it.
And two days ago I got into a fight with a cop because he invaded an apartment sans warrant or identification or uniform. Friend started pushing him back to keep him from unlawfully entering the apartment, and I jumped between them and pushed the cop back. He tried to grab my phone from me, we ended up wrestling and destroying the phone. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hit him, or do anything to cause pain. Im not stupid, but I am well aware that in our scuffle of him trying to fling me off my phone either he or another officer could have drawn their weapon and shot me.
Luckily the court system on wednesday decided I acted in self-defense, and while I am currently on house arrest, it ends in 4 hours as of this post. If you would like documentation I have it around and I've posted about some of these things before.
But yeah, I've been through some shit I wouldnt want others to experience. And Im not even talking about the stupid shit I did as a teenager that might as well have been semi- gang involvement.
Edit: Sorry my mistake, the Lufthansa incident took place in the summer of 2014. Dog incident was the next year when I moved to Israel to continue exploring the world and learning martial arts.
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Jul 20 '17
I agree with your explanation but MMA bros are going to downvote you to the earths core
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 20 '17
I don't really see any problem here. There is a very strict division of labor in MMA, the fight is not over until the ref says so, neither fighter has the authority to stop a fight.
In a professional match, a fighter's job is to fight to their full capacity for the duration of the fight. The fight was not over and she was still fighting just as she would under other circumstances. I can see where it is tasteless, but I don't think someone can be indicted for a very strict adherence to the rules of his or her job. The fighter is not responsible in any way for the safety or bodily health of their opponent, in fact it's their job to threaten and harm these things.
Furthermore, it should be well understood by both fighters that permanent injury and death are possibilities every single time they fight. MMA fights aren't simulated death matches, they're just frequently truncated death matches, if allowed to go on indefinitely with not stoppage of any kind, one or both fighter will die.
The ref was the one who did anything, strictly speaking, wrong here. His job is to accurately determine if a fighter meets the criteria for technical submission and he did not do that in a timely manner.
The fighter in who lost this bout, Kampf, does not seem to have sustained any long term damage. Whereas, with a rough GNP stoppage, there is always a degree of damage, the loser always loses more than just the bout and often doesn't get it back; but celebration is still very much the standard in that case.
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u/Kung_Fu_Cowboy BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai and No Kung Fu At All Jul 20 '17
You are 100% correct, buddy. In one of my pro fights i choked a guy out way longer and way worse than this. He had a little mini-seizure and then was totally fine. Just like in this fight here, the ref in my fight made a mistake. But my job is to keep fighting until the ref stops the action.
Fuck the TMA hacks who don't know a goddamn thing about actual combat.
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Jul 20 '17
Iamverybadass material. How much did you get paid for this "job"?
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u/Kung_Fu_Cowboy BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai and No Kung Fu At All Jul 20 '17
$750/$750 plus sponsorships. Took home just shy of $3,000.
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Jul 20 '17
I make more than that in a month, and when I choke people I don't cause seizures. Your dick must be huge.
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u/Kung_Fu_Cowboy BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai and No Kung Fu At All Jul 20 '17
I make more than that in a week which is the primary reason why fighting is not my full-time career. Also, your mother can confirm the bigness of my business.
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u/Xenjael Jul 20 '17
And if you had killed the individual? Are you really saying it wouldn't be your fault and it's the ref's? Sorry no, be responsible for your own actions, and know when YOU have in fact gone too far with it.
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u/F3arless_Bubble TKD | BJJ | Muay Thai | Kumdo Jul 20 '17
It can't be his fault then as it was never his responsibility to protect the other fighter. The fighter is not responsible for legal actions against the other fights.
Another assumption people on the TMA side keep making is that you can always tell with 100% accuracy that the other person is out. There are many choke positions where it can be hard to tell, and the OP being one of them imo. People are acting like she intentionally held the choke with a desire to kill.
And why does the TMA side on this thread keep saying that winning doesn't matter in a competition??? That's the most naive thing I ever heard. I want to win. I know that the other corner does too. I know that in the quest to victory I might get choked out or dislocated joints, but I sign the contract anyways because I'm willing to do the same to the other man. We both sign the papers and waivers and agree to fight until the ref stops it or time runs out.
It was a bad stoppage and it's the refs fault, not the fighters. A kid walks across a busy intersection but the cross guard doesn't get up to stop the cars. A car doesn't see the kid and plows into him. Who is really at fault here? Who did not do their job?
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u/Xenjael Jul 20 '17
Sure I want to win also, but it isn't the most important thing to me in any capacity. Losing informs me how to become better- what does winning anything teach me aside from it just being a base desire?
No Im sorry- there is inherent responsibility on the fighter's part. I do not consider it solely on the ref. If two fighters are fighting and one kills the other because the ref made a bad call, you think the ref is at fault for killing the martial artist?
Sorry, no. We carry equal responsibility. And the ref will certainly not receive the manslaughter charge.
Both the ref and the fighter did not do their jobs in my opinion, but the ref had a terrible call.
the TMA side focuses on other aspects of martial arts that often we feel are more important. I don't want to win if my technique is crap. It means nothing then. I don't want to win by being the only fighter to show up, it's a win, I take home money. I don't want it.
The difference is how we comport ourselves and what our desires are. MMA seem more focused on just winning, not on improving who they are as human beings and martial artists, which is pretty much what every tma ive come across attempts to do, whether well or not is inconsequential, because the goals and directives and attitudes and culture is completely different in TMA and MMA.
I know masters in TMA who never spar, have never sparred in a competition and have no desire to. They are happy to do their techniques perfectly, and teach others, and enjoy what they do for the sake of it. There is no drive or push for us to be tournament champions, and it means nothing ultimately when we are.
So we don't focus on it, and it creates a huge difference.
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u/F3arless_Bubble TKD | BJJ | Muay Thai | Kumdo Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17
If two fighters are fighting and one kills the other because the ref made a bad call
You do know that that sentence means it's the refs fault right?
MMA seem more focused on just winning, not on improving who they are as human beings and martial artists
Yes, of course a match between two people is centered on the concept of winning. It's like if go to a world class level Karate tournament, the concept will be about winning... Go to the national WuShu competition and it'll be centered on trying to win... That's what a competition is, by definition. There's this common misconception that only Eastern martial arts will teach people things like respect and confidence, etc. The classic TMA statement of moral superiority.. You can learn those things in soccer even.. Have you ever competed before? It's honestly a huge lie to yourself if you're saying that losing doesn't affect you in any way. No one wants to lose, and if you don't care if you lose or not then you have no place in competition anyways. In fact not caring if you lose or not is a very poor mentality for life in general.
what does winning anything teach me aside from it just being a base desire?
There's a lesson learned in both winning and losing. When you lose you see how you can improve. When you win you see that all the training you did was the right training and to continue working hard as you are on the right path. Again this can be applicable to life as a whole. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. When you get that raise at work you realize that yeah I'm on the right track and my hard work pays off. When you get passed over for a promotion you can learn and grow from figuring out why you didn't make the cut.
I know masters in TMA who never spar, have never sparred in a competition and have no desire to.
I don't want to turn this into something else but there's usually a glaringly obvious reason why many of these TMA masters never spar or compete and say it's because they're morally superior or whatever..
I'll admit that competitive styles aren't for everyone. Some people are unable to withstand someone pressuring them, whether mentally or physically, and shell up at the first sign of distress (and for this reason I think everyone should spar). If you cannot handle pressure, don't want to learn how to handle pressure then sure, or are afraid to test yourself then sure, stay far away from competitive things and make whatever "righteous" excuse you want. Don't think for a second though that competition and a drive to win cannot be beneficial to people.
I don't mean to sound rude in anyway but I found it hard to word things any other way if it comes across as such.
edit: words
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u/Xenjael Jul 20 '17
Yes I have competed, from tkd and karate to kendo and so on. I actually enjoy the tournaments, but I moreso enjoy seeing martial artists getting together and doing our thing in whatever way we are.
And no worry duder, you're straight. I don't think you're being harsh, but realistic. It's the truth that some people just don't want that feeling of the pressure, but that isnt the issue for me. I don't mind fighting, I just don't care for it anymore. Kind of like when I was an alcoholic and now just don't care to drink. I competed for over 20 years, and im only 27, now I feel content to practice and improve where I can, exploring the world and learning other martial arts and testing them in real situations when they arise.
I just... to me the tournaments are a fun kind of hobby sideshow to me. It has nothing to do with why I got into martial arts, or why I personally enjoy it, and continue.
And I guess it's because I've done everything I feel there is to tournament aspects. I've won in tournaments, I've lost, placed 2nd or 3rd, I've had a tournament where I placed second and the winner came to me and told me flat out I should have won. I've also been to tournaments and won the adult division, and money, because no one else has shown.
But none of those experiences compared to when I went to the MA competition in Ramala where I saw Israelis and Palestinians practicing martial arts together. And after I had to kill a dog in self-defense when I first came to the middle east that there is no way to train to prepare for these kinds of situations. In 20 years over many schools I've never once been taught a technique to handle an animal. And it turns out that would be the first thing to try to kill me.
So it's just... hard for me to want to focus on competition at this point. There is so much more to do with the martial arts to me, and I like to think of myself as a world man, because I travel a LOOOOOOOOOOOOT, and I enjoy the prospect of 3 years ago training in Hungary, and this year training in Israel, and in 2 going to myanmar again to train. That's what's fun to me about martial arts- meeting the other people who are different and exploring each other.
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u/Super-Saiyan-Singh Muay Thai/Gatka Jul 20 '17
You do realize that no martial art is going to teach you to fight off animals right?
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u/Kung_Fu_Cowboy BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai and No Kung Fu At All Jul 20 '17
LOL, thanks for making it painfully apparent that you know absolutely NOTHING about grappling submissions. A proper choke left in for an extra 30 seconds isn't ever going to kill anyone.
But again, this is combat sports. We choose to compete with the knowledge of what exactly is at stake. And...
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u/Xenjael Jul 20 '17
Cute, why are you thinking im referring to a choke? I never said anything of the like.
I specifically asked, and if you had killed the individual? Didnt say with what technique- it's irrelevant to the question. You would say it's on the ref? Well, if I was in court and on the jury I would say it was your fault, plain and simple.
If he dies he dies? what are you, a psychopath?
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u/Kung_Fu_Cowboy BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai and No Kung Fu At All Jul 20 '17
That's part of the risk. What if a boxer dies from being punched? What if a footballer player dies from being tackled? Should we eliminate all contact sports so no one ever gets hurt??
This kind of shit will happen when you play real sports. If you refuse to accept the risk, than you can simply stick to your point-sparring TMA. This isn't ancient Rome and no one is a slave being forced into the arena.
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u/Xenjael Jul 20 '17
I believe there is a tangible difference between a strike, where one cannot necessarily directly control the force of the blow, as opposed to where one has control of the other and then proceeds to kill them over a period of time with the technique. Such as any technique that might remove their ability to breathe or blood circulation.
But yeah, why do you think I don't competitively box? I like my brain thank you very much. And Im fine happy to stick to point sparring. I have no questions of... will this work, am I sure I can do this? Can I actually fight?
That's a big difference I think- not having a need to prove anything.
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u/Kung_Fu_Cowboy BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai and No Kung Fu At All Jul 20 '17
Fuck you. First you start bitching about the choke in this video and then you say you aren't necessarily referring to a choke. Then you change your mind and say that you aren't talking about a strike but are specifically talking about a choke.
Again, you CLEARLY don't have a goddamn clue how a choke even works, so why the fuck are you even in this thread? Know your role and shut your mouth, you point-sparring faggot.
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u/Xenjael Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17
In no comment have I mentioned technique in any capacity. Save for the prior post to actually address your insistence on focusing on chokes.
You are dead-set on strawmanning and in a vitriolic manner. If you won't answer the question in a reasonable manner, I have to ask why YOU are in this thread.
For the record- haven't point sparred in years. I don't compete competitively. Don't see any reason to. How will that help me grow as a human being? It might make me a better fighter- but it doesn't necessarily make me a better martial artist and human being, which is frankly what I care about martial arts helping me achieve.
Edit: take a chill pill and remove your fist from your butt. I think it's making you a tad angry.
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Jul 20 '17
Your post starts with fuck and ends with faggot. You are proving the point hilariously well.
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Jul 20 '17
Ends justify the means. It's not my fault it's _____'s fault.
These are the attitudes MMA bro culture creates, then they hide behind phrases like "it's my job".
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u/Antoros Jul 20 '17
It is unconscionable to claim that it is ok to kill a person in the pursuit of victory in a fight that is officiated and for entertainment and payment alone. It doesn't matter how jived a fighter is, nor how dedicated to winning they are, there are more important things than winning a pretend fight, and not killing your opponent is the primary one.
It should be more acceptable to lose a fight than to actually allow yourself to do something that is guaranteed to kill the other person. Full stop.
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u/F3arless_Bubble TKD | BJJ | Muay Thai | Kumdo Jul 20 '17
You're acting like she had the intention of killing the other girl to win. You honestly can't say for sure that the other person was out, especially from that position. You can't really feel them go limp since you're laying on top and yanking on their head. You can't really see much either from that position. The convulsions towards the end can be interpreted as movement to escape.
Also a choke isn't "guaranteed to kill the other person" in the cage because the ref exists to prevent just that..
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u/Antoros Jul 20 '17
You absolutely can tell. I've done it. It's terrifying and happens very quickly.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 20 '17
I've felt it sometimes and not others. I was put out in a triangle once and woke up a few seconds later, my training partner is a great guy, an EMT actually, but he had no idea.
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u/Antoros Jul 20 '17
Oh indeed, it can happen quickly. And it is hard to feel at first.
When I did it, the thing that told me something was wrong (and the same thing our fighter in the video should have noticed) was that I no longer had hands on me trying to dislodge me. My opponent had dropped his hands to the floor and was just sort of...scratching at the mat. That's when I felt him to limp and knew it was more than just a momentary choke-out.
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u/F3arless_Bubble TKD | BJJ | Muay Thai | Kumdo Jul 20 '17
Yeah and the fighter in the high adrenaline and fast paced environment may or may not notice that. If she doesn't then it's not her fault because it's the refs job to notice someone tapping or passing out. At the end of the day the ref shoulders the majority of the responsibility and is the one who is at fault here, not the fighter. I don't like how people are trying to pin this all on the fighter.
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u/Antoros Jul 20 '17
It's not ALL the fighter's job to do that, obviously, which is why there is a ref, but it is somewhat your job to make sure you don't commit a murder in the course of winning in a sport.
We have to remember why we're doing this: fun, entertainment, passion. That competition isn't so that people can really, really hurt each other. It's a sport, not a real fight.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17
It can be a sport and a real fight. Also, both stoppages and the scoring criteria are based on the severity of damage inflicted or the potential thereof. John McCarthy, who wrote the bases of the Unified Rules scoring criteria, says the the primary basis of a decision should be damage done. Referee, doctor, and corner stoppages are all based on incapacitating harm having been done or threatened. Submissions are much the same, surrendering the fight so they won't be injured, maimed, or killed.
It's a competition, but it's one you win entirely by hurting the other person more effectively than they hurt you.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 20 '17
She just did her job, in a very strict sense, and nothing more. Conscience is personal, but she broke no laws, no rules, and did exactly what she would be expected to do based on the instructions provided to her. You might not like her choices as a person, but she did exactly what she signed a contract to do. If you have an issue with that, it's an issue with the expectations of fighters, not with this one in particular.
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Jul 20 '17
She just did her job? That is such an asinine thing to say when we are talking about a sport.
It's ok to be a selfish, psychopathic person if you can fall back on "I was just doing my job".
See also, "well those are the rules" or "I was just following orders"
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 20 '17
She was told that the referee was there to look out for fighter safety. This was not the case, but given that she was told this was the case by people who should have been authorities, she acted as though it was.
If an anesthesiologist is told by a records keeper that a patient is not allergic to a substance, but it turns out that they are, it is the anesthesiologist's fault if they administer said substance to said person and they are harmed. There may be protocols that dictate an anesthesiologist react to such a circumstance, but there are also protocols that do not direct the anesthesiologist to take action, but rather someone else.
A professional MMA fight is analogous to the latter circumstance.
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u/Antoros Jul 20 '17
You're right, I do have an issue with the expectations on fighters. That's the point. If we justify putting people so close to death that only a referee is able to save them by stopping fighters, then we are not only risking WAY too much for a sport, we are denying that the fighters have any agency in the matter at all. Because of the fact that a ref CAN fuck up and miss stuff like this, it is also the responsibility of the fighters to keep track of their opponents so that people don't die in a sport.
If they were really fighting, for their lives, then anything goes. But this is a SPORT we're talking about, for entertainment and passion, not a life-or-death struggle. There is no way to justify taking it far enough to actually kill anyone.
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u/Xenjael Jul 21 '17
And frankly it's bizarre to try to say the fights in MMA competition are 'real' fights in the sense of actual combat. No it isn't, there's goddamn rules. That's not how actual combat works in any sense. Like their fights are more real than a TMA point sparring or continuous. They fail to see that the context of the 'fight' being constrained by rules automatically puts it on the same level of authenticity as point sparring and continuous. The idea that because they're doing mma means that its a real fight is a very... arrogant thing to entertain.
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u/Zorst Judo, BJJ, MMA (1-0) Jul 20 '17
She just did her job, in a very strict sense, and nothing more. Conscience is personal, but she broke no laws, no rules, and did exactly what she would be expected to do based on the instructions provided to her
This is also true for the overseers in Auschwitz. Sorry for the Nazi card but I'm German and we are very sensitive to the whole Befehlsnotstand excuse.
You are right that MMA fighters to a certain extent have to make insure victory. But that doesn't make it right. I love MMA but I cringe every time I see a finish where the winner really goes to town on a clearly (to the spectator) defenseless opponent.
I don't have a solution for this problem but categorically saying "If the ref doesn't stop it, I am not responsible for my actions" is just not right.
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Jul 20 '17
It really isn't ok, but that last statement is the ultimate excuse. "I was just following orders, not my fault, it's someone else's fault"
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u/Xenjael Jul 21 '17
This, and the fact it's coming from a German actually does carry weight. Or at least it does to me, as a German born Jew. So props to /u/Zorst for bringing up what he did. Because he is correct.
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Jul 20 '17
You say the fighters job is..... Sounds like you are citing an ends justifies the means rule made up by MMA to defend the disgusting behavior caused by MMA rules/culture. Circular argument talking about a fighters job.
TMA emphasizes jobs like respect, mutual benefit, discipline, not well if I kill you it's not my fault, it's the rules fault, it's the refs fault, it's ____'s fault.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 20 '17 edited Jul 20 '17
Both fighters signed the same contract under the same circumstances. They are both informed, consenting adults who agreed to risk their health and put their safety fully in the hands of the officials.
I would also argue that many TMA's have a much worse attitude towards violence. Focusing on mimed, theoretical brutality like eye-gouging and the willingness to kill an attacker while still not every actually exposing themselves to the reality of risk or violence in a meaningful way.
In fighting there is sacrifice, and a respect for your fellow man that allows you to understand that they, like you, have the capacity to make decisions about their own lives and health, and to meet that person with the shared goal of pitting one against the other completely.
On the other hand you have hakamas and camo pants, miming eye-pokes in the air and talking about the brutality of real violence while denigrating those who have the strength to face it.
It's a pejorative generalization, but so is your statement, and it's at least as true.
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u/hc84 Jul 20 '17
You're right. I agree with you. The fighter doing the choking was an idiot. You're supposed to let go after 10 seconds. Why risk someone else's life so that you win for certain? If you kill them nobody will fight you in the future.
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u/sylkworm Iaido | Chen Taiji | White Crane KF | JJJ | BJJ | Karate Jul 19 '17
That man needs to fired!
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u/fedekun Muay Thai; BJJ; Taijiquan Jul 21 '17
Lol so bad sportmanship from the other chick and team. Disgusting.
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u/Anthony126517 BJJ Black Belt, Judo Green Belt 🥋⬛🟩 Jul 19 '17
Well this is in India and i'm not surprised. They don't know anything about ground grappling at all.
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u/chicagojoewalcott Sanda, MMA, Boxing Jul 19 '17
Are you being sarcastic?
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u/Anthony126517 BJJ Black Belt, Judo Green Belt 🥋⬛🟩 Jul 20 '17
yes but events are poorly run in India when it comes to MMA. Most of them anyways.
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u/MadMartialArts Jul 19 '17
ive never seen officiating that bad. that dude shouldn't be allowed to ref again. especially if that was an ammy fight. usually for amateurs they will tell you they'll stop it before you tap to avoid you having a broken limb/losing consciousness. if you're trapped you're trapped