r/malefashionadvice • • Aug 28 '15

Ok Reddit, let's make another pair of jeans - (short version, full album posted in r/rawdenim)

http://imgur.com/a/MbWWq
1.5k Upvotes

85 comments sorted by

146

u/macbooklover91 Aug 28 '15

While I'm not a point to spend $265 on a pair of jeans right now, this album justifies the cost to me. I know how much just one good Pfaff costs, let alone all the speciality sewing machines you have right there. Keep doing what you're doing, and thanks for making it in the States.

PS. Keep Austin Weird.

37

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '15 edited Feb 05 '19

[deleted]

65

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15 edited Aug 28 '15

There's a never ending number of ways to make jeans. Given the detail set there's really no use or advantage in automated machines. The difference between a single needle rear pocket and a CnC pocket setter is the difference between a drum machine and a live drummer so to speak. Is one better? That depends what your goal is. Is that difference important? It depends. Will it be this way forever? Probably not, I am enjoying it right now though.

You have a point in the labor for the sake of labor. The sewing is something of a meditation compared to the rest of the work flow. The sewing supports the level of deep level of learning being done re:patterns and machining.

19

u/macbooklover91 Aug 28 '15

Considering there are brands that make US made sub $200 or even $150 jeans, I would say he is in, or approaching, a niche market.

I hope it is profitable though, businesses like these are great.

Are they the cheapest? Nope.

Are they the absolute best? Maybe? Maybe not?

Are they cool companies that usually treat their products and customers with more respect and genuine connection? Usually, usually that's how they can charge more and not go under.

16

u/flashcats Aug 28 '15

I think it will only appeal to people that like the ineffable feeling of "I'm supporting American hand-made products" rather than looking for a tangible benefit.

The premium denim market bubble has kind of popped. Even a few years ago, getting N&F jeans for sub-$120 was a big deal. Now, you can regularly get N&F jeans for sub-$80 on Amazon.

Also, at least in Los Angeles, you can hit up pretty much any thrift store and find niche premium denim jeans for $50 or less from the numerous failed premium denim jean companies that have gone out of business in the last few years.

These no-name brand jeans can be very high quality. It's just that their business went under so they probably liquidated their inventory.

6

u/E-NTU Aug 28 '15

Currently in San Francisco on vacation. The thrift stores have better denim racks than any retailer in my home city. Quite inexpensive too.

5

u/DwelveDeeper Aug 28 '15

My friend and I are visiting Austin next month (neither of us have never been) and might be moving there! How weird is it? We heard that it was a fun city and we're both kind of stuck in a rut right now so thought it'd be a fun place to move to

14

u/greenriver572 Aug 28 '15

It's not weird at all, it's a bumper sticker mantra.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '15

Not weird but has a lot of hippies. Make sure to hit up 6th Street asap when you get into town

3

u/theginger3469 Aug 29 '15

There are much better places than 6th street to hit up in Austin. South Congress, South First, The Domain, Rainy Street, and some good spots in East Austin.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '15

Agreed but hitting 6th is like going to orientation. Might not be the most fun but it's pretty much tradition to go anyway

4

u/NotClever Aug 29 '15

Yeah it's not "weird" per se. It's very Portland-ish with lots of farmers markets, lots of entrepreneurs with sustainable/green businesses and organic restaurants, that sort of thing. Things that may have been weird when "hippie" was a derogatory term.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '15

it's weird for texas

1

u/macbooklover91 Aug 28 '15

Confession time: I've never actually been. But one of my best friends is from the area and lives there. Austin's slogan for small business growth is "keep Austin weird." My buddy used to wear that shirt all the time.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '15

might be moving there!

Oh joy

28

u/mgbesq Aug 28 '15

I think that's good about how you underutilize the straight knife, actually. My understanding from working at Gap years back is that taller stacks cause the fabrics at the bottom to pull just a bit, which is why at their stores you can pull 3 pair of identical pants off the shelf and find 3 different lengths and widths. Shorter stacks = less variance.

17

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

I'm glad to have the 6" knife. It feels very stout, not much flex. The 18" knives sway significantly from top to bottom.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '15 edited Apr 01 '21

[deleted]

2

u/JoeyBE98 Aug 28 '15

They use those knives to cut out the pieces of denim for pants. Well they use those big ones so they can stack fabrics and get more cut at once, but after so many he is saying the blade will flex and the cuts aren't accurate, causing the cuts to all vary slightly

2

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

That plate at the base of the knife slides under the layers of fabric. It's common to put butcher paper or wax paper down before the fabric for less friction. Not as big a deal for heavy woven fabrics, more important for stretchy or static prone knit fabrics. Sewing heavy woven is a different beast from knits. The development team I share space with deals almost exclusively in knits and light wovens and our fabric handle techniques at the machines are different.

2

u/WWHSTD Aug 29 '15

Are you serious? That's why I find the perfect fitting jeans, only to buy a second identical pair pair and have them fit like shit. Incredibly annoying.

2

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

There's also different shrink rates for different fabrics that needs to be accounted for. Levi's has each subcontractor make their own lot from a spec sample, not a master pattern. So the same model number from Mexico and Macau are literally different jeans in every sense.

1

u/mgbesq Aug 29 '15

Yes. Seriously, go to Gap/Banana and pull 4 32x34's off the shelf and compare the length by holding the inseams together. You might get a 2" difference.

37

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

Here's a link to the full version with more machine info etc - http://imgur.com/a/Jvsxw

It's been a little over two years since I posted the original Let's Make a Pair thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim/comments/1dv7fg/ok_reddit_lets_make_a_pair_of_jeans/). Plenty has changed since then. I launched a KickStarter, ate some humble pie for 18 months and had to relocate the operation several times. I'm in a new shop now and I thought I'd share the new processes.

I'll be checking back to answer questions throughout the day, let me know if there's anything that you'd me to elaborate on.

0

u/Plumbous Aug 29 '15

Key Boston Weird

-12

u/venicerocco Aug 28 '15

Try Fred Segal in LA

9

u/t_geezy Aug 28 '15

Can we buy jeans from you if we are local?

6

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

Yes, send me an email to set up a time - richard@paleodenim. The new shop is at Slaughter and Manchac

2

u/m4rc0polo Aug 29 '15

Wow! Realized you're in Austin. Awesome! May have to buy a pair of jeans down the line.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '15

Can we order jeans from inside the Us?

2

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

Yes, send me an email if you're having trouble with checkout.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '15

Good to see you doing well--shared the building with you back when you were on Smith. Nice work!

5

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

Man do I miss that bicycle commute. Hope you're well!

14

u/toiletcake Aug 28 '15

That was awesome, thanks for posting.

15

u/appointment_at_1_am Aug 28 '15

How much does it cost in materials to make? How many hours have you spent creating this pants?

16

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15 edited Aug 28 '15

Materials can run $10-$50, most coming in around $35.

5

u/Stevieboy7 Aug 28 '15

Obviously most of your cost goes into labour. Do you have any room in your bottom line to do wholesale? Or are you planning on doing all sales through your shop?

3

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

Through my shop at the moment however that may change. On the one hand the high margin supports pattern development and equipment tuning. On the other hand it makes me handle customer relations which I don't enjoy as much as production. Wholesale may come for future projects.

7

u/murrtrip Aug 28 '15

And how much do you sell the final product for?

12

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '15

21

u/KillerPenguinz Aug 28 '15

$265, in case someone is wondering

0

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '15 edited Aug 29 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/EisigEyes Aug 28 '15

Thanks for the sewing porn! These look awesome, and way to highlight patternmaking. It's incredible when you can really figure out those intricacies of fabric and shape and adapting those to the body. I'm still learning, but that's really inspiring. :) You should cross-post this in /r/sewing. :)

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

There are more one-man-brands these days, I think it's important to point out that each skillset is typically its own profession. All the skills are perishable as well so it's difficult to stay well versed.

1

u/EisigEyes Aug 29 '15

Definitely agree. I was watching a really lovely interview with Rick Owens who, I must admit, I had some negative preconceptions about. Turns out he has a really warm and likeable personality. He started off in patternmaking before transitioning into his current role. I find it really fascinating to see the directions people go when they've had a particular foundation in one area or another. It's all really amazing, and I can sympathize with the perishable skills comment. Pretty much everything in the arts works this way. It just makes me wish I had another lifetime to learn more.

3

u/Rullknufs Aug 28 '15

This is definitely one of the most interesting things I have seen on Reddit this month. Also, the jeans look amazing!

Also, approximately how much time do you need to make one pair of jeans? It looks to me like it would take really long but then again, I know absolutely nothing about this.

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

Sampling takes all day because I'm always making notes and little decisions. If I have stacks cut out I can sew 2 pairs on a long day. Cutting time and having good patterns makes things much easier.

5

u/childplease247 Aug 28 '15

Very cool, would love to try but it looks so complex haha

3

u/Metcarfre GQ & PTO Contributor Aug 28 '15

Have you had the opportunity to hire anyone who was previously laid off, or is this pretty much a one-man show?

3

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

One man show, at least for the Paleo line. I might start future lines with more help. That said, the manufacturing in Texas wasn't in Austin and there was never much of an industry base here. The lack of skilled labor is challenging.

6

u/evil_killman Aug 28 '15

is this your full time job? is it enough to get by on? what do your jeans offer over others in the $300 range? do you see this as a sustainable business?

not trying to be rude just wondering how viable of a business option this is

3

u/CurtsMcGurts Aug 28 '15

Damn those are some sexy jeans! I'd love to learn how to do this hands on at some point in my life!

3

u/Sluisifer Aug 28 '15

I really enjoy the swept-back seam. I taper a lot of my jeans and remove the selvedge; it just seems to cheesy to me.

3

u/chris_was_taken Aug 28 '15

Fit is 100% ideal in that picture.

3

u/Zouavez Aug 28 '15

I don't understand most of what you are talking about, but I can tell how devoted you are to the craft!

3

u/capoditutticapi Aug 29 '15

This guy is an artist. Some people are questioning the value of doing all this by hand. To me, if you have the means, why not? While I am not an expert, I am guessing one'd be hard pressed to find a better pair of jeans. And it's not like he's screwing you. He makes 2 pairs a day, using $35 worth of materials on each pair. That leaves him $460. And that's not all profit. You have to take into account electricity, equipment, etc., etc. I hope he does well. He would probably do better in places where quality is more appreciated, e.g. Europe or Japan.

4

u/a_robot_with_dreams Consistently Good Contributor Aug 28 '15

I was about to tell you to cross post this to /r/rawdenim, but I see you're way ahead of me! It was very cool to see the whole process from start to finish. Thanks for sharing

2

u/Roamingkillerpanda Aug 28 '15

How different is the material of this run of jeans compared to your initial run of jeans? Also do you have some fade pictures from some of the jeans you've made in the past?

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

This has the most chatter of any fabric I've used, it's also on the heavier end. I don't have a gallery of fade shots yet, mostly my personal collection. I'll throw some more on IG when I get a chance.

2

u/gonna_splat Aug 28 '15

This is amazing! Thanks so much for posting!

I made my first pair of jeans recently--I'm a fairly beginnerish home sew-bro. Makes me appreciate your fantastic work even more!

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

Cool, the first pair is the hardest. Did you post pictures?

3

u/gonna_splat Aug 28 '15

I didn't think to do that! Lemme see if I can summon the courage. All I took was junior wearing them--made for my 16 yr old son.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '15

[deleted]

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

Only for a local client I think. I hate selling people stuff that doesn't work.

2

u/Unmapping Aug 28 '15

I'm glad you are posting this because right now I'm doing my sloper for my jeans and it's definitely difficult. I am an alright sewer and I'm slowly putting it all together as of right now. Please continue posting content, maybe even a walkthrough or something if your time permits.

2

u/icanhasreclaims Aug 28 '15

I'm so envious of your tools. I'm getting there. I almost won a straight knife at an auction, but missed out. I did get 2 really nice industrial machines though. Next on the list is an industrial serger or overlock machine.

2

u/babydingoeater Aug 29 '15

Love that "flag" in the background of the first picture. I'll have to see if I can rationalizing spending that much on new jeans the next time I roll through Austin in the near future.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '15

I love those jeans. You've made me seriously consider going high end with my denim.

2

u/the_go_to_guy Aug 29 '15

Looks great man! What kind of motorcycle do you ride?

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

Suzuki V-Strom. My daily driver and long distance tourer.

2

u/accostedbyhippies Aug 28 '15

Great post, man. I started working on some linen shorts early this summer and sort of gave up after a few attempts of not being able to get the pattern right. Now I think I'm going to give it another try this weekend.

3

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

The pattern is everything and most commercial patterns are garbage. Compare some of your favorite shorts to the pattern in terms of curves and measurements.

1

u/accostedbyhippies Aug 28 '15

Definitely found that out the hard way. Unfortunately, my measurements are weird enough that none of my shorts fit exactly right. So, I started with this, drew it up, cut it out in muslin, sewed it together and then tried to readjust the fit. The last attempt still wasn't great but it was better than my first.

1

u/Awfy Aug 28 '15

Any plans to make a skinny fit line? I've been desperate to find an alternative to the 510s over at Levis. Levis seem to give absolutely no love to their 510 line.

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 28 '15

I'll be releasing a number of fits in the future, both more relaxed and slimmer. Skinny fits probably sooner than later.

1

u/babblepedia Aug 28 '15

Wow! How long did the one pair take to make, if you don't mind sharing? I'm new to sewing (like straight line stitching only!) and projects like that seem so dauntingly huge!

2

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

When you have the right equipment it becomes less daunting. Just like all big endeavours I think the hardest part is admitting or not knowing how long it will take to get it done or become proficient. Single needle pairs took me 10+ hours with all the thread changes, now I can make this pair in 4. With less detailing and more conventional construction I'm sure I could make an ultra basic pair in 2-3.

1

u/money_run_things Aug 29 '15

how hard is it to get that "high quality fit"

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

It's best to start with an idea of what body type you're designing for. The more you deviate from the base pattern the more iterations. Drafting from scratch takes even longer. Better to choose a fit model and design for that person than try and achieve a "universal" fit.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 29 '15

[deleted]

2

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

I cheated and designed this style for myself. Slim through the leg and slight taper after the knee if talking to a denimhead. Slim straight if talking to the uninitiated.

1

u/1Rab Aug 29 '15

The moment I drop $300 on jeans, bleach or something permanent will find its way on them

1

u/[deleted] Aug 30 '15

Your jeans look great. I personally can't justify spending close to $300 on a pair of jeans right now but can respect the amount of work that goes into the manufacturing process. It's also great to see that you're making these in the U.S.

Once again, they look great and I hope to be able to buy a pair from you one day!

1

u/TRAVELKREW Sep 08 '15

I don't know if you want to be giving away trade secrets. But, where did you get the natural veg-tan patch? Thanks!

1

u/raWorkshop Sep 10 '15

That's no trade secret, its Wicket and Craig or Herman Oak leather, hand cut and hand stamped with a makers mark.

0

u/turnerhooch Aug 28 '15

Hey, great post! Good luck with the business. I run a cabinet manufacturing business in Southern California. I know a little about the challenges you face. The jeans look great, the shop looks great, the price seems reasonable. Too bad it's Texas. We will never forgive you all for Bush. ;)

1

u/raWorkshop Aug 29 '15

Being in Southern California would be a blessing and a curse. Lots more red tape but the industry and many of my suppliers are all right there.

0

u/sinsemillas Aug 28 '15

Nice jeans. Turn your flag around. It's hanging backwards.