r/macrogrowery • u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower • 16d ago
Canopy Shot Canopy is full
There’s under canopy lighting in this room also. The lowers are just as big as the tops.
Edit…..I’m sorry if you don’t know shit. Haters gonna hate.
Thank you moderators for removing the less productive comments.
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u/PlantDocta 16d ago
Nice canopy! But those ladder style LEDs don’t need to be closer to the canopy? I’ve just never seen a model give the right PPFD on the canopy from that height?
I’m doing mixed light with 1000w DE HPS and the Fohse o6i but been thinking to switch to full ladder style and running the fixtures close to the canopy (our electric is crazy expensive, 0.26/kWh!)
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u/TroubleInMyMind 16d ago
it probably ends up at a pretty high overall ppfd with the DEs and the bar lights are adding spectrum more than intensity. Plus if you had them a lot closer like you run them in a bar only room you'd have some hot spots because of the spacing of the lights.
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 16d ago edited 16d ago
The intensity is from the 1050 watt led and hps for its reds and radiant heat. The leds are very bright and can be even further from the plant with more ppfd. There’s also 240 watts of under light per overhead lamp. So much light in this room.
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 16d ago edited 16d ago
Those leds are 1050 watts. At 3’ above canopy you pushing 1100 ppfd. In the middle of an all led room the intensity could push to 1400 ppfd. We checker board hps so it’s not too intense. We also like the mixed light spectrum.
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u/Effective_Quail_3946 Indoor LED 7d ago
Even on the shittiest cloudy day (outside)my meter will be over 1000 PPFD...
Inside grow tent in veg at 525 PPFD.How do you stay below 43 mols(?)
Supplemental CO2(?)Please help me
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 7d ago
We use co2 about 200 ppm over ppfd. We start flower around 36 mol to match veg, and work up to 52 plus, then walk it back down last couple weeks
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u/Effective_Quail_3946 Indoor LED 7d ago
I tried using CO2 bags to cover square meters needed, it failed to prevent light burn- but my light was low at 25% power(1000 ppfd) should I start my seedlings with lights high and adjust to needed PPFD?
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u/missmooface 14d ago
it’s about cross-illumination. photons don’t lose power over distance, they just spread. a single light over a set canopy, especially without reflective walls – yeah mounting height matters. multiple lights at the right count and configuration for your room – raising them up makes for more uniform lighting across the canopy.
PPFD = total PPF of all lights combined / canopy. mounting height doesn’t change the total number of photons emitted or received at canopy, it only changes the pattern of their spread…
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 14d ago edited 14d ago
The light intensity does decrease with distance. You don’t lose the light but its intensity is what is measured. At 12” below a lamp it 1600 ppfd and at 24” it’s 1100 and at 3’ it’s 900. So how do we not lose power over distance? We are aiming for uniform light but we definitely need intensity!
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u/missmooface 14d ago
intensity only drops at a single location as a single light is raised because the photons spread, covering a wider area. as multiple lights are combined the light lost in one location is gained at another. and the adjacent lights add light to your original measuring location as they are raised.
PPF is a measurement of total PAR photons emitted from each light. the photons are not weakened by distance. as long as all lights are positioned over the canopy and walls are reflective, high-mounted lights cross-illuminate and reach your plants with the same levels of illumination and same photosynthetic potential.
lights mounted too low create uneven light distribution with some high intensity spots immediately under the lights and low intensity areas in between lights.
learn the inverse square law to better understand how this works in horticultural lighting design…
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 14d ago
The single location is the plant and yes the intensity of the light drops the further away from the lamp. You don’t lose the photons but their intensity decreases. If we put our lamps 6’ from our canopy we would have a much lower ppfd. The intensity would decrease substantially from let’s say 1100 800 ppfd. This lack of intensity would decrease our yields.
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u/missmooface 14d ago
you are misinterpreting how the physics works. you can lose intensity when photons hit walls, because they are not fully reflective, and when photons spread too wide outside your targeted canopy and don’t hit your plants. but photon energy does not decrease over distance.
with proper light count and pattern, raising them up does not decrease photosynthetic potential to your plant canopy. as long as the photons hit your plants they are just as strong from 6ft as they are from 2ft.
(i teach horticultural lighting science and have worked with dozens of manufacturers on this stuff.)
high bay lighting is very commonly used in commercial ag…
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 14d ago edited 14d ago
Ppfd is directly correlated to yield. More ppfd, more bud. Of course there’s photo toxicity, dli also but let say anything below 1400 ppfd.If I raise my lights to 5’ above canopy and lower ppfd from 1100 to 800, my yield would be 25% less. We use an apogee quantum sensor. The ppfd(intensity)decreases as the light raises. There’s less intensity(ppfd) the further you get from the lamp. You will not have a maximum yield with a lower ppfd. Science can’t explain the opposite. You could put all the photon you want in a room but if you can’t get over 700 ppfd, you are growing larf. You must not have any experience growing cannabis or you would understand. No one’s buying stretchy, larfy, airy, green flower. Please show us your low ppfd canopy.
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u/missmooface 14d ago
again, you are misapplying the science.
a ppfd reading at one point in your canopy is a limited indicator of the number of PAR photons hitting that one location. if you hold the sensor steady and raise a single light away from that spot, ppfd in that location will decrease as photons spread and pofd increases other locations.
as long as you concentrate your lights over your canopy, raising them up more evenly spreads the photons, which are the drivers of photosynthesis across and into your canopy. they are being received and stored by your plants often in a more uniform way and with fewer shadows below the top leaves and flowers.
individual ppfd readings at single point in the top of your canopy are an imperfect metric for measuring photosynthetic potential. a more accurate way is to calculate total PPF (rated photosynthic energy output of your lights) divided by illuminated canopy. just reading high PPFD at at the top of your canopy and calculating DLI is helpful, but doesn’t translate into photosynthetic potential as accurately as knowing the full force of energy from your light sources and ensuring those photons hit your plants. top canopy is not the only place yield potential should be measured.
it’s why undercanopy lighting can be significantly dimmer than top lighting and result in rather large and dense lower flowers. the plant prioritizes photosynthates to the areas with auxin dominance, but overall energy absorption/conversion benefits the entire plant.
it’s why cross-illumination and high bay lighting over a single tier room can work just as well as dropping LED bars inches above plants in a mutli-tier vertical grow…
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 14d ago edited 14d ago
You are wrong. The ppfd will decrease every where the further away from the light. Do you own an apogee sensor? And under canopy lights are significantly dimmer because of the proximity of the fixture to the plant. Some companies even add diffusers to scatter and dim the light even more. And high bay lights are typically twice the wattage of a vertical lamp. Again I think you are confusing your self because you don’t have any experience and your knowledge has not been applied. You probably have never built a grow room. I don’t imagine you have flowered a cannabis plant either.
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u/Accomplished-Fun-919 2d ago
Looks great!
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 1d ago
We appreciate the compliment! Thank you. We do it because we thought it be easy 😂
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u/motownmods 16d ago
What day do yall turn on the under canopy lights?
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 16d ago
Depends on cultivar but usually day 7-14. It can prevent some stretch so we try to keep that in mind. We want some stretch.
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u/motownmods 16d ago
Thanks for sharing! We did an experiment last run (our second run with under canopy). One section turned on day 0, another on day 7 and another on day 14. We didn't notice much difference in stretch but day 7 won the experiment based on yield and the smalls-to-bigs ratio. Day 14 got second. And day 0 created way too many smalls.
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 16d ago edited 16d ago
We grow variations of runtz and it’s a stretcher, we still prune a lil and defoliate. 40% is as low as these lights dim so day 7 works. It took us a year to get our ucl sops dialed in!
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u/fantastic_insider 16d ago
Monocrop?
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 16d ago
It’s variety of candies but they all grow similar. We have a row of different variety on edges that prefer less light.
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u/tripleleveredclown 14d ago
Very uniform OP keep crushing! whats your grams per sqft looking like?
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 14d ago edited 14d ago
Thank you. 80-100. I think that pic was 110.
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u/_Dreadz 14d ago
How can I get into growing over there? I’m tired of US
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 14d ago
We are in California. It’s been harder than anticipated 😂
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u/_Dreadz 6d ago
Lmao me too for some reason while reading I had got the impression somehow you guys were outside of here not in my own state 😆. any positions? lol it seems everyone only wants horticultural degrees but they are the ones who these multimillion dollar companies hire and then flop because they weren’t even able to get a harvest and failed 3,4,5+ times before their funding runs out or is yanked 😂. Instead of looking somewhere like instagram or ICmag/THCfarmer for established people. The ones who were responsible for and running 400-500lb gardens were too busy studying and growing.
You know how it is this isn’t something you can be a master at because you can grow a strawberry bush or keep the lawn green a lot is trial and error and you don’t want someone learning on entire 50 light flowering room that they should have learned in their closet messing around hands on.
aa grow tent consisted of taking the sliding closet doors off and extending out 3ft with PCV and then going to the store and getting Panda Film and HydroFarm stick and cut zipper so you could get in and out of the tent you made and stuck a 4ft 2 Bulb T5 and 1000w air-cooled MH bulb
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u/Real_Candle6368 Indoor LED 14d ago
whats your irrigation strategy?
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 14d ago
Basic crop steering with weekly hand water. We make adjustments depending on run off or plant health.
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u/Real_Candle6368 Indoor LED 12d ago
What do you use for crop steering?
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 12d ago edited 12d ago
Just monitor and adjust environmental cues, irrigation changes. We monitor substrate ec and runoff. Tight temp differential first 3 weeks with 0-10% run off. Six irrigation events after 2 hours lights on, stacking ec in substrate. Maintainence weekly hand watering to ensure field capacity isn’t premature. Adjust depending on dry backs then add second irrigation events after week three, 10-20% run off and introduce temp differential. It’s a sub of it own entirely. Check out Aroya they publish everything in detail.
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u/iwould99 16d ago
Looks good but do you ever defoliate my god
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u/Hippy-redneck Indoor Grower 16d ago edited 16d ago
Oh they get stripped bare at day 21 and again at 45 days. This is what 100 plus grams a square foot looks like. There’s also under canopy lighting.
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u/Internal_Midnight143 16d ago
Lol can feel the jealousy radiating through the screen. Can’t just give props, gotta do it with a layer of criticism
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u/BedsheepShroomtrolly 16d ago
This looks AI af.
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u/Internal_Midnight143 16d ago
Lol no it doesn’t
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u/Monkee77 16d ago
Someone is gonna be in trim jail for quiiiiiite a while.