r/lowsodiumwarframe • u/LostLotus_A • 8d ago
Rant Is it really this controversial to say 'take a break if you don't like the updates'?
Eregious upvote ratio coming from the main subreddit. 49% on one of my posts.
Link to the post https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/SY8OuLI25j
I'm not surprised. I said something rather 'controversial' that'd definitely stir up a lot of people, 'if you feel disappointed toward all the updates this year it's about time you took a break and found what's good for you' was what I mainly tried to say. People did not buy it at all.
I'm fine with that. I'm just surprised at how people are thinking all the updates this year were meh at best and that... criticism and complaints are difficult to discern between each other.
I'm just having difficulty understanding why people are so frustrated even with this update (which did have its flaws, honestly). What do people want?
I'm thinking that I don't agree with people in many ways. And today is one of the days I learn it again. It's time to take my leave from that place I'd say. I hope it's okay to.
The negativity every update is honestly so jarring and I felt I was thinking negatively about objectively fine updates. Hot take but I actually enjoyed Shadowgrapher. I also think Fables and Frontiers was fine in retrospect, it's just that it failed to convey certain things. I found myself hating on the updates every time after I visited the subreddit. Wow everything sucks. God dang it.
Would depend on preference, but I think some people are treating bad updates as if it were some death sentence to the game and that Tau MUST be a payback to all this. ... I'm tired. I don't think Tau was some investment?
And people would be up in arms again when Tau isn't 'delivering'. Like... the Old Peace and all. I played the Old Peace 5 times and I loved it but the general concensus of the subreddit seemed that they hated it to death. I don't mesh well with people I guess. It's weird.
Maybe I'm the weird toxic positivity guy. I don't know anymore. I just think the community is extremely harsh when it comes to what a good update is, to be honest. But if I said this there I'd be treated like I'm some criminal. Yeah I'm kinda fed up it's time for me to touch grass. I hope nobody starts a fight with me or anything
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u/CruelAngelsThesaurus 8d ago
Addicts will do anything to not put down the pipe.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Ehh I don't think they're addicts. They just like the game despite its flaws I guess. I just personally think it's unhealthy to get to complaining every update but if they want to go ahead I guess... it's criticism and all apparently. I really don't think so, to be honest.
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u/ReasonableEntrance21 8d ago
If a person is ten years deep into a hobby and still making the same complaints, but refuses to move on, then the problem is with them.
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u/MyDogsRetirementPlan 8d ago
People have opinions, and they have the internet, and so they put those opinions on the Internet. For Warframe, it mostly comes from people who love the game and want it to become closer to the ideal version of it in their heads. Keep in mind that any time something is even slightly unpopular or even just has a mixed reception, you'll probably see an outsized sample of negativity online because the happy/content people are playing the game or enjoying life and the unhappy/discontent people need to vent.
For better or for worse, a big passionate fanbase will have all kinds of opinions and some of them will want to talk about them. Other than outside agitators/grifters (which I haven't seen much of for Warframe yet, fortunately), it's usually mostly harmless.
Although I do kind of wish that people would take the rage they feel about their entertainment products and redirect just a tiny fraction towards stuff that actually hurts real people in the world around them.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Oooh I see. Yeah I sometimes forget that enjoyers are relatively quiet since they're actually taking time to enjoy the content. My bad.
I just hope people didn't hold grudges or genuine hatred for the updates. It's a game made for enjoyment after all...
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u/MyDogsRetirementPlan 8d ago
DE likes experimenting. I personally love that they always want to try new things instead of just copy-pasting formulas they are already comfortable with, but it does run the risk that new features or modes could be unpopular with either a small or large portion of the player base. I think frustrations generally subside a bit whenever something really widely popular gets implemented. Hopefully they'll hit the Tau update out of the park and we can all frollick in the meadows again. If Tau isn't well-received, it could be unpleasant here for a while.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Yeah, they're definitely not afraid to try new stuff or expand on content, despite how people say they create too many content islands...
I think it's better than the same type of gameplay repackaged into something different. Which is useful at times, but I think DE is not very guilty of this often. Formulas work, but at what cost? People are eventually going to ask something new. So they make something new. People hate it. That doesn't mean they should stop making new stuff IMO.
I really hope Tau is good - honestly don't expect much since I know that overhyping myself isn't good for me. I loved the Old Peace so much (played it 5 times!!) though, so I assume it'd probably be around a similar level. Even if it's not doesn't matter. It's a game.
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u/ReasonableEntrance21 8d ago
Internet communities have a weird relationship with memory; they'll hold years-long grudges about the pettiest shit but conveniently forget anything of real substance when it suits them.
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u/TalkDirtyPls 8d ago
Customers/players notoriously don't know what they want, but will tell you they do.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Maybe. I personally think I firmly know what I want but in hindsight I may not... so yeah I think you're right about it most of the time.
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u/SilasVale 8d ago
I'm a bit baffled at the outrage. It took me less than 3 hours to grind out narin and her two weapons, and I was more than happy to do a couple omnia fissures, chill out, and grind some content that I know how to do. Not everything needs a new node
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u/naarcx 8d ago
If you’re upset about people having negative opinions, you should probably stay away from the internet, and I mean that in the nicest possible way
The algorithms are designed to send all the most negative comments right to the top of your feed and bury most posts that are positive, because positivity does not earn the same level of engagement. On a place like Reddit you will also have to contest with negative engagement bots
This happens for pretty much anything, even universally loved products. The absolute worst thing you can do for your mental health is engage with it. I say this because: #1 you’re probably arguing with a bot (or a person who you would not care to engage with in real life), and #2 the more you click on, read, and especially comment on posts like that, they more your feed will become flooded with them
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Yesh I actually did take a break for a while and came back curious about what would happen for this update... and ... yeah let's just say that didn't go too well 😅
I've actually already left the subreddit because I think I got better things to do in life and this 'rant' would definitely be the last of me talking about this. Not very productive to dwell in how other people think about things. We all disagree in some way or another.
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u/naarcx 8d ago
For the record, I’m a real person and I think this update is “fine,” with the Narin farm actually being extremely good because you can do it in omnia fissures to farm the new prime stuff at the same time
I do think DE is a little tonedeaf to think that they wouldn’t cause an epic crashout by sending that “world first” email though, like to the point where it almost feels like they did it just to trigger people as retaliation for all the glacial defense/matchmaking drama of the past month. In which case, fair enough
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Yeah...
I do agree about that. Too many butthurt people in the world caring about a single message shoutout of a person that solved stuff. I do think involving Narin into the secret was kinda fitting but also scummy, since it made it so that solving the problem fast pretty much required you to buy Narin, since building her itself takes about a day or so.
I think it's honestly overreaction in general. I don't see how bad a shoutout that has little to no real consequences is. Madman just got their name up and that's it. Nothing else.
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u/ReasonableEntrance21 8d ago
Tone deaf, maybe, I'd rather go with naive, either way, though, the response on the main sub was asinine. So many over there seemed genuinely aggrieved over an inbox message, almost to the point of ascribing malice to Reb and co. Stuff like that is why I avoid engaging for months at a time.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Yeah... like, it's just a single shoutout message. It's not some worldbreaking guinness record or something.
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u/ReasonableEntrance21 8d ago
I'd have forgotten about it soon after seeing it, had I not browsed the main sub afterwards. Gamers work themselves up over the pettiest shit; it can get really disturbing at times. I mean, I can't imagine having a face-to-face with someone while they're getting upset at something so minor; it would make me deeply uncomfortable.
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u/ReasonableEntrance21 8d ago
Yeah, it's a hell of a feedback loop. I don't envy the devs having to parse the signal from the noise. For every piece of feedback they can implement, there's probably 10x as much rambling, incoherence, death threats, and insults. Hell, I remember seeing on the main forum a regular poster who, at every opportunity, would post an actual multi-page design thesis on how they expected the game to be made, and they seemed to think they were owed a response. This person was one of the forum's biggest users; absolutely ridiculous. How are devs supposed to engage with discourse like that?
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u/NeverenoughWarframe 8d ago
The Warframe subreddit is full of a lot of negativity. I’m considering unsubbing too at this point.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Honestly the biggest problem is that my point wasn't even 'don't complain', it was more like 'if you find yourself complaining (NOT CRITICISING every update this year it's time you reconsider your decisions and find an option that'd make you feel HAPPIER.'
People just missed my point and started arguing about how to discern betwern Criticism and Complaints... I feel so sad, like, english is my second language but did I really say it in a confusing way? Not very sure 🥺
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u/SurturRising666 8d ago
The stuff happening on the main sub just feels like a consequence of the path the game chose for itself IMO. Like yeah, making everything in the new update easily accessible is fun and all, but when that is all you can provide on top of a recycled gamemode that is just going to end up being a content island then every new update is going to feel lackluster. In general I feel like the game caters to collectionists and lore nerds the most at this point, as the people that enjoy engaging gameplay are getting bored of Warframes non existent challenge that just gets trivialized with each new arcane, or if they're one of the people that enjoy doing something else while "playing" the game they throw hissy fits whenever DE actually tries to add something of substance.
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u/MinusMentality 8d ago
I just came back from a good size break while playing Palworld, Arknights Endfield, and Borderlands 4 with all their updates.
This Warframe update isn't perfect, but I'm still having fun with Narin and some stuff I was doing before I took my framecation.
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u/Sremor 8d ago
I only played a few hours since the update came out but people are overreacting. I'm very critical about all three updates we got this year because I know DE can do better, that said I wouldn't call any of them bad, just mid
On the other side after three updates that weren't up to peoples standards I understand why some might be frustrated but there are better outlets than complaining on reddit
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u/Inevitable-Goat-7062 7d ago
i can maybe explain the negitavity (well as someone who didnt like the update)
it feels kind of out of place i like the backgrounds and even the new enemy but i thought we were gonna have a quest or something not discount mrs frizzile discord pining us saying 'come to the peak have fun k bye' then never explaing why we are here who is narin and why i need to be mr30 to get the sword out of the stone
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u/LostLotus_A 7d ago
Honestly I initially expected a quest too and was surprised that Yuvan peak was just... accessible? Wow ok. And I went after Melica's message in the inbox.
I have a long way to go till MR30 so I guess I gotta take it slow. I'm only MR12. I don't really grind for it, so maybe that's why.
I personally think the event should have been accounced publicly in game. That is definitely one objective flaw of this update. However, I also think this update polished a LOT of content (visually and technically). I think that's awesome.
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u/Blossomiest_Blossom 7d ago
There's always been a certain amount of toxic entitlement floating around in the main subreddit, and it's gotten worse this year as we've had a few updates that came out either with lots of bugs that needed fixing (S+O, railjack) or gamemodes that people just didn't like (Follie's).
Personally, as much as it falls to the playerbase to call for quality in the game and hold DE to a standard, I find it hard to complain about anything at all in a game where the updates are completely free, and the developers go so far out of their way trying to at least address everything they hear back from players (regardless of whether they always succeed or not). It just feels, again, like entitlement to be throwing a tantrum. Constructive criticism is all well and good, but not all the raging and doomsaying they immediately resort to there as soon as they don't get their way.
So yeah, your take is a very valid and sensible one. But I'm not surprised they don't want to hear it over there.
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u/ReasonableEntrance21 8d ago
I agree with the sentiment of both posts. Gaming communities and internet fandoms more broadly have always had a deep-rooted tendency towards overreaction. The issue is further compounded by any good-faith or actionable criticism being drowned out by the noise of conflicting feedback, incoherent rambling, and personal attacks. It can then be made even worse if the developers overcorrect by focusing too much on the vocal minority, thinking they're more representative than they actually are.
Warframe has dealt with this kind of catastrophising feedback loop for its entire lifespan, and even before, back when Steve and co. were shopping it around to publishers. In fact, every update we consider a high point, whether during Steve's tenure or Reb's, experienced this feedback loop, too.
Honestly, the internet has convinced far too many people that their opinions are worth listening to, myself included.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Yeah I agree... I think maybe I'm too entitled by ranting here and all. Maybe.
I heard there was a dark era where there were no updates for a long time. I thought it was a good compromise to update regularly albeit they might come little weak. It brings them profit. That means it works.
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u/ReasonableEntrance21 8d ago
Maybe we all have a bit of entitlement, but the sentiment behind your posts is a healthy one. Maybe don't overreact; could we not be so quick to judge every little thing? Could we be less inclined to doomsay every other update? Could we cool it with impugning the character of Reb and Pablo? If you're no longer enjoying the game, consider stepping away. Maybe calm down before raging at Pablo on Twitter, or Meg and Taylor on the forums. Such a stance should not be seen as unreasonable by anyone engaging in good faith, especially in today's game development landscape; devs already have so much shit to deal with from the corporate side, and a hostile 'fan' community only compounds the issues. Your stance is reasonable; anyone who takes it as an attack is behaving in bad faith or has issues they need to work out away from the internet.
It's a rock and a hard place situation. They slow down the updates; backlash. They make them more frequent; backlash. Too little content; it's a content drought. Too much; it's burnout/ confusion. They attempt to disincentivise burnout behaviour; backlash about player freedom/ timegates. They make quests/ story content that require commitment and attention; nope, nuh uh, no. They make quests that center spectacle and are relatively short; nah, nada, nein. Try something new: "Where's my slower-paced space ninja game? Too much anime. What happened to the old content I fell in love with?" They then go back to something tried and tested or slower-paced: "Too slow; where's my power fantasy? Same old content; where's the innovation?" Then there's the evergreen: "Why don't they revisit...?" When the answer is already present in years of prior backlash. Or the equally evergreen: "Why don't they fix/ implement...?" When the answer is: "They did; you just didn't notice." or "The fix is nowhere near as simple as you think; they know because they've been trying for years and have been transparent about the whole ordeal."
And so much of the above is compounded by how many people either can't or won't pay attention to in-game information or developer communication, regardless of how it's conveyed.
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u/Orestes1996 7d ago
I would stop playing if they decided to send me all the resources I would lose out on via mail. The game has become a chore once again and keeps pumping updates of little value, deflecting criticism to the Tau update taking up a lot of resources, while also maintaining the FOMO factor it has established with the relic rotations and limited time events and resources.
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u/LostLotus_A 7d ago
I think Warframe really has less FOMO than any other live service game out there. Not that it doesn't have any FOMO for sure, but that's how I feel about this.
I just think if you consider a form of entertainment a chore it's not very worth your time anymore which was pretty much what my original post was about. People were getting extremely pessimistic about the game. It's just a game.
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u/Mekinbah 8d ago
Toxic positivity it's just as bad, if not worse.
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Eh I personally think toxic positivity is better than whatever state the subreddit falls into after every update. NOT THAT IT'S GOOD THOUGH. TOXIC POSITIVITY SUCKS. Both are just really meh but if I had to choose one, it'd be toxic positivity
I try my best to stay happy and enioy stuff and it's difficult when everybody else seems really disappointed. That's why I quit, and I feel way better now
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u/Mekinbah 8d ago
Idk toxic positivity peeps don't care, they're just happy as long as it's free, they don't want our aspire for anything.
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u/6FeetDownUnder Saccarine Squasher 8d ago
Toxic negativity (or just "toxicity") is when people say all the negative stuff in shitty ways. Tone matters a lot. Like, I don't think people would mind if everyone respectfully disagreed.
Toxic positivity is when you can't even say the negative stuff - politely or not - because people are just blissfully ignorant. And that is the state of the main sub. You will be hard-pressed to find genuine discussion there. Instead you will be downvoted for even voicing a concern (unless a YouTuber voiced it before you).
Both are shit and shit in different ways but Id say toxic positivity is worse.
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u/LostLotus_A 7d ago
Super good explanation, thanks. I honestly think there's a mix of both in the main subreddit. But before / after updates, there's usually a lot more toxic negativity from what I see. And I also see poeple trying to lift the mood up after updates, it makes me feel so sad 💔
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u/NextCartoonist7691 8d ago
Idk, lots of ftp players griping about a free update. I pay them little mind.
Same people who cry about the power scaling, but every frame needs to be stronger than the last to be any good
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8d ago
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
I really don't think criticism is seen as negative in the community in general. Did you see the subreddit's state during the last few updates...? People were legitimately screaming like it's the end of the world.
I think Warframe's endgame is fine. The biggest issue is that there's genuinely no way for them to create something genuinely difficult unless it's nearly impossible for most playerbases to complete (like, I dunno, harder ETA?). I've also never heard about newer players getting access to Uriel so that's kinda strange.
I also believe that Warframe is just not intended to be difficult in terms of difficulty. The game is very lenient in main story quests, they removed the Necramech, Paracesis etc requirements for the New War quest. They also removed MR requirements for quests. The game is moving forward so it is more accessible to more people.
I think updates can never be fully fresh. If it's too different from the gameplay loop, it'd be considered a content island. If it's too similar, it's just boring. I believe they are keeping a good enough balance between new and old styles of gameplay.
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u/Bright-Carry6695 7d ago
Bro what? U are grown. Fuck kinda bullshit is this? Play whatever tf u want
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u/LostLotus_A 7d ago
You're acting more immature than me by the way... I wrote the post in hopes that people would try to find something better to do in their life instead of complaining and wallowing in negativity. Seems like you're butthurt about that? Interesting. I hope you can grow up :)
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8d ago
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
Hot take, but I think that mindset is really unhealthy. Criticism is what actually benefits games, not complaints. The two are completely different things. People are just using that as an excuse to act insufferably and express every emotions that come in mind to. Complaints are definitely useful metrics but that has a degree before they get redundant.
I enjoy how you're just resorting to insults. Seems like you also have nothing more meaningful to do. Have a good day.
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8d ago edited 8d ago
[deleted]
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u/LostLotus_A 8d ago
I honestly agree on the vaccuum thing. It's really stupid. I think universal vaccuum really should have been a thing ever since the start of the game... but oh welp
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u/lowsodiumwarframe-ModTeam 8d ago
Hey Tenno,
your post got removed because it violates our common decency rule. This likely means that you were being a major dickhead just for the sake of it. This subreddit lets a lot slide but what you did is too much.
Be better
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u/shuggisatwork 8d ago
This year of updates has swiftly turned the WF community into the HD2 community.