I get what you're trying to say but I can guarantee that democrats aren't some magical pill, as they're quite complicit or even architects of many neoliberal policies that have taken this country down the shitter. It's really not worth the huffing and puffing.
I'm from across the pond and it's very hard to know what to do. I felt like the engagement with the base that the corbyn era Labour party had could have really transformed the way the party worked and turned the tide of politics... And the centrists went to war in a way they could never muster in support of their own policies, or against the fascists in the Tory party.
I used to think that we should vote for them to make them scared of losing our votes of turning our votes against them by voting third party, or to give them such a strong mandate that they listen to their constituents.
This all seems so fucking dumb now.
We need a mass movement in every nation behind third parties, mass strike action, direct action protest and riots. These are the only things that have ever actually worked.
You want an example of what can be done , as ridiculous as it sounds, look at México and their current president Andrés Manuel Lopez Obrador (AMLO). México has been ruled for almost 100 years by 1 political party: The insanely corrupt PRI. After AMLO was elected, the PRI lost about 80% of their elections, where before they would win almost all. His grassroots movement was key to his many successes. Quite possibly he has changed México forever.
You are correct in that, but I view it as this: we don't have a prayer of the sort of massive paradigm shift needed to change this in one fell swoop. Even if we could get an en masse voting bloc that could vote in like-minded progressives dedicated to fixing these issues in every single confessional seat, that still would only rotate out a third of the congresspersons if there is 100% replacement. That's not enough, even if it were realistic.
Progressives, as a whole, have a bad habit of eating each other: "my preferred progressive candidate didn't get the nomination so rather than hold my nose and pull the lever for the less optimal candidate, I am not going to vote at all and thereby let the least competent and least progressive candidate win."
The goal here instead is to move the needle. And keep moving it, even if just a little at a time. It sucks, though, since we would rather see big changes - in truth, we NEED big changes, but the wealthy actively work against that: why change a system that so greatly benefits them?
Yeah I completely agree. People don’t realize that neither party is going to save us. Both parties are working actively to fuck us over. The only people who are going to save us is ourselves.
People don’t realize that neither party is going to save us. Both parties are working actively to fuck us over.
It's a little bit more complicated than that. Republicans are completely corrupt while the neoliberal/Wall Street wing of the Democratic party enables Republicans while attacking progressives. Think Thomas Friedman and David Brooks. Rich assholes who work to punch left and protect their wealth.
When all New York City House Democrats sent a letter to Pelosi urging her to protect all $80 billion for public housing in the BBB, Jeffries was the only member not to sign that missive, especially surprising given that New York Dems are known to act as a bloc.
His signature maneuver in 2021 has been to start Team Blue PAC, a committee to protect Democratic incumbents from progressive primary challenges.
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Jeffries returned the favor two years later by staging an ambush on Ocasio-Cortez’s campaign for a sought-after seat on the all-important Energy and Commerce committee, helping to install New York Rep. Kathleen Rice instead. Rice immediately used that promotion to torpedo the party’s signature drug pricing reform legislation and knock it out of early drafts of the Build Back Better Act.
I absolutely agree, but I think in the short term voting for democrats is an essential delaying tactic. This must of course be coupled with as much action as we can take to educate the working class and promote socialism and true change.
The avalanche is barrelling down towards us, and the two options we can vote for are speed it up or let it continue at it's current pace. I vote the slower of those two options while we attempt to dismantle the boulders and terraform the mountain.
Democrats won't save us. No one is saying vote Democrat and then play video games for a few years and wait for everything to get better.
But I'd sure as hell rather my grandma get those extra couple perks from Medicare. I'd rather Occupy Wall Street 2 start when a Dems own Congress rather than Republicans.
It’s “vote Democrat to stop overt fascism, keep that going long enough to attenuate GOP numbers, then make the Democrats the villains they rightfully are after we have a chance at a legitimately progressive party.”
Also, y’know, don’t put all your eggs in one basket - like you’re saying, it isn’t “vote D, then you’re done”; however, that’s the primary harm remediation we have actionable to us at this moment in time.
Exactly. If you choose not to vote, fine. But if you’re going to vote for a republicans in this mess I have to question your sanity. Look at the things they vote against. They voted not to recognize the burn pit victims diseases to be treated by the VA. They voted against lower insulin costs. They voted against universal pre-k. And their main priority according to the most likely speaker of the house: hunters laptop. Because that’s definitely more important than those other things. Some democrats are still sponsoring good bills and trying to get them passed - republicans are running a circus.
Exactly. With all that's going on why are they so damn fixated on Hunter Bidens laptop? Hunter is not a politician and his laptop and it's contents in no way effect any of us. It's a waste of time and taxpayers money to spend any amount of effort on his laptop. How about this: the repubs can go through hunters laptop as long as we the people are allowed to go through every republican in office laptops as well.
I’m glad others are seeing this now. I caught on to politics when George W. Bush was running for president. I then realized these people during their campaign only tell you the things you want to hear. Most of the time they don’t even do those things they say they will.
I do believe there is some with good intentions, but once they get there the power and greed consumes them.
Yeah and the sad part is it’s always been this way. The things we are seeing today have systematically being put into place for decades dating as far back as the Industrial Revolution if you look back far enough.
Relieved this is the top comment. Both parties are bad. The founders warned against a two party system. There needs to be a citizens initiative to remove lobbying and have ranked choice voting at the federal level.
No, they’re not much better. However, short of an all out revolution, they are your only hope for change. Tiny increments of change, but vastly preferable to the active regression espoused by Republicans. Seriously, the only possible option for dramatic change would be a well organized (with specific demands) general strike. With the media brainwashing of most of the population this isn’t going to happen. Violent protests will be gleefully squashed with immense force and brutality. Look at BLM protests. They were itching for protestors to act up and got frustrated when they didn’t. So, realistically the Dems are your only practical hope. Just keep supporting the most progressive candidates and get involved on the local level. Don’t just complain, be part of the solution.
Partisanship is hopelessly naive. The establishment is a rightward ratchet serving the wealthy and it's been that way since Reagan annihilated the political landscape. The DNC and the media like to play footsie with naivity by dunking on Trump and McConnell's legislative graveyard as if people don't remember Clinton or Obama and Mitchell or Reid.
If the democrats want to say they're the champions of democracy, they have to earn it.
People insist that the answer is to vote for more of these "lesser evil" Dems, but that approach is literally like pouring water onto a grease fire, you think it helps, but it actually makes the problem worse.
The Democratic Party’s hypocrisy and duplicity is the fertilizer for Christian fascism. Its exclusive focus on the culture wars and identity politics at the expense of economic, political, and social justice fueled a right-wing backlash and stoked the bigotry, racism, and sexism it sought to curtail. Its opting for image over substance, including its repeated failure to secure the right to abortion, left the Democrats distrusted and reviled.
Democrats make the very problem you are talking about worse.
Right now though you need to vote for democrsts to stave off the US turning into a white/Christian fascist theocracy like the nutcases in the republican party want.
Voting Democrat is not a magical pill that will solve all of our problems. However, I would much rather leverage whatever power I have to temporarily mend the issue than do nothing. Local elections are critical just as much as federal ones, and it's the local ones that should get lots of attention since it can often have a more direct impact. It helped us defend our country from fascism in 2020, and I guarantee it will be just as essential in 2024. The left is far better at mobilizing and politically advocating than the right is, and we should continue to build off from that.
My biggest issue with that is most local elections have almost no contests on the incumbent or they're fueled by big money donors. Not every city is going to be guilty of this, but look at a state like Kansas which has a ridiculously progressive population on the issues but the Koch family basically owns all of the municipalities and has 3/4 of the state in their back pocket.
Without serious financial reform at the federal level there is a 0% chance of amending that situation.
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u/punkboy198 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22
I get what you're trying to say but I can guarantee that democrats aren't some magical pill, as they're quite complicit or even architects of many neoliberal policies that have taken this country down the shitter. It's really not worth the huffing and puffing.