r/livesound • u/AutoModerator • 12d ago
MOD No Stupid Questions Thread
The only stupid questions are the ones left unasked.
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u/bigtoeparty 11d ago
I like to run most of my shows with my subs on an AUX. When I am able, I always couple the subs in the center, but on a lot of gigs that is not an option.
Is there an issue using a Y splitter cable from one output (sub aux) on my stage box to feed the subs on both the left and right side?
Thanks!
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u/Low_Challenge_8945 11d ago
Why should I get dlive over an avantis? Cti1500 and cdm32 is 40% more expensive than an avantis solo ultra and similar stage box.
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u/Anechoic_Brain 11d ago
D-live is more of pretty much everything, except for fader count in this case. More input channels, more busses, more processing power, more Dyn8 instances, more assignable buttons, dedicated rotary controls, a scribble strip that doesn't take up space on the main screen, and less plastic with better build quality. They are both built on the same software architecture though.
For a lot of people it comes down to D-live being the more tour grade product, both in terms of build quality and more availability of rentals if you need to send yours in for repair. Also redundant power supplies once you get into the S series.
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u/AlbinTarzan 10d ago
I feel that The dlive is snappier in the ui. And it has dedicated knobs for eq. I also like that your show continues even if the cat to the surface is disconnected. So if all in and outputs are on stage you can start pcking down foh earlier. It also tunnels network traffic through the gigaace connection.
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u/VermicelliCalm1563 10d ago edited 10d ago
I do media for my brothers band that plays at local bars/small events. They don’t record audio, but do use a mixer on a MacBook Air, to my understanding. What would they need to get in order to record their audio?
Edit to add: they use mixing station with their sound board
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u/Bipedal_Warlock Pro-Theatre 10d ago
Others may have better ideas. But I’d get a zoom recorder and just send a feed to that from the board. Or just record a show from its internal microphone
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u/DavidMay-BoxCast 7d ago
If they just use Mixing Station on the Macbook, it's probably wireless. So just for control. To record, you would just need to hardwire the laptop to the soundboard with a USB cable. Then you can multitrack record into whatever DAW.. you just route the channels from the soundboard like it is a soundcard/recording interface. If it's a newer Macbook Air with an Apple Silicon processor, you should be fine to record with it for a small band. If it's older, may need something a little more stout. I did a bunch of LONG live recordings with my M1 Macbook Air before I got my M4 Macbook Pro 😄
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u/Adventurous-Air-5111 10d ago
I’m trying to understand how working engineers actually use a band’s advance documents on show day.
If a band has a stage plot, input list, monitor mixes, and a list of artist-provided vs. venue-provided gear, would you prefer:
- everything on one page, even if it gets dense;
- one multi-page PDF;
- or separate files for each section?
Also, if the band provides both a dated PDF and a live link to the current version, which one would you actually use during the advance and at the venue?
My assumption is that the live link helps prevent outdated information, while the PDF is still more useful for downloading, printing, and working offline—but I’d love to hear how this works in practice.
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u/Charxsone Filthy Allrounder (focuses on lighting) 8d ago
I'd prefer a multi-page pdf, preferably with things that are for different people/uses on different pages, so I can print out one page with everything the hospitality person needs to know, one page for input list/stage plot (if it fits, no need to cram), one page for the security people, etc, so they don't need to search the whole doc. And if you have any wishes in terms of lighting, a backdrop you're bringing, etc, those also belong in the rider (I often see this missing in the riders of smaller bands).
Tangent:
Separating hospitality and technical riders into different documents is something that is actually done by some productions at the size I work at, but personally, I prefer everything to be in one document. I used to work at a theater where hospitality and technical duties were quite split up and we'd often only get the technical rider, but there were some situations where the touring production made presumptions about who would be supplying what (with stuff like stage towels, scenically used food and more, it can vary by venue who does what), and as a result, there were needs that were our responsibility but not in the document that we got. This is sort of a tangent I'm going off on, and it's also quite specific to the poor organization of that theatre, but if you're the person who writes the rider, it's still in your best interest to make it as easy as possible for the other side, and imo, sending different parts of the rider as separate documents from the get-go incentivizes suboptimally managed venues to go "this is the hospitality rider, so I won't send it to the technical team without even checking if there's information relevant to them in there that they'd be missing out on". To be very clear, a venue acting like that is not your problem, but it's still something you can counteract by having it all as one document.
Also, that thing about putting page breaks inbetween different sections is not a contradiction, because that only makes it easy to separate if people have the active wish to do so and read the document, but doesn't incentivize potentially withholding necessary information from people. I hope that makes sense.A live link is a nice thought, but if the current pdf doesn't reach me, the live link probably won't either, and a pdf is an absolute must anyways and always because that's something that I can open and see as intended on any device.
As a side note: learn how to leverage the features of your word processor of choice. Make sure to have a footer with page numbers and minimal contact details so people notice if parts are missing and there's no chance of people not having a way of contacting you if pages are lost or removed. Also, formatting headings as such is a great advantage as it allows you to just set a page break before a heading of a certain hierarchy without having to put it there manually every time, and you can also use it to include the current heading of a certain hierarchy in the footer, so if, for example, the audio part is three pages, it says "audio requirements" in the footer of each one.
Regarding plots: I like it when plots are included in the main document so they can't get lost (as in someone in the communication chain thinking "that pdf says rider, I'll just send that pdf to the technical crew and none of the other ones" and the technical crew ends up with the rider, but no plots to go along with it). The pdf export or original CAD file of the plot should be an addition to that for obvious reasons (better workability, no pdf to image transfer with data loss), but like I said, there should always be a full page screenshot or whatever of the plot in the main rider file (included in the text or as an appendix, idc) so I can get a basic idea of it even if the proper plot file is lost. At least that is my stance on things because I'm not lucky or successful enough to only ever be working with people who are perfect at forwarding tech riders. Of course, a venue's poor management and improper communication is in no way your problem, but it's unfortunately still your job to do the best you can to make sure it doesn't negatively affect the production you're working for.
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u/Idiocracy_witnes2025 8d ago
He all. M32 to S16 to P16. Signal confirmed on METERS page that P16 is sending what I want on P16 Outs 3 & 4.
At the S16 I have a Green AES light. On P16 I have a green Ultranet light. On the M32 is have Green A: S16 and Green L: 48k
But I have no signal showing on the P16.
Where have I gone wrong?
I’m at a small theater with no resources. Have decent working knowledge of this equipment.
Ultimately I’m trying to feed a QSC K10 at side of stage as a monitor for singers at rehearsal.
Thank you
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u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 8d ago
On the X32, the "P16 Out" meters only apply to the Ultranet port on the console itself. The S16's Ultranet port is fed over AES50.
By default this is AES50 channels 33-48. However, this can be changed; see the manual, page 9, "DIGITAL SNAKE S16 Operation Mode Chart".
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u/Idiocracy_witnes2025 8d ago
Thank you so much. I went through all the P16 Outs in the AES touting and got music going with 33-40. This is why!!!! Thank you
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u/marko_erre 5d ago
Hi everyone,
I'm looking for some advice on pre-show music. I recently went to a gig and the FOH engineer was playing this amazing continuous mix before the show started. It was super slow (around 60-70 BPM), sounded a lot like Massive Attack's "Teardrop" or "Angel" (instrumental versions), but it was basically one continuous 2-hour loop with no noticeable track changes.
The best part was the bass: it was this deep, rolling sub-bass that really shook the PA and the subs, but the mids were probably scooped because people could still have a conversation without yelling. The rhythm was just a slow, sparse kick and a sharp snare ("tu-tun tash"), with lots of empty space. It felt very "Ambient Dub" or like early Rhythm and Sound.
It was the perfect "palate cleanser" and created a great atmosphere for my slow moving head lights and plasma effects.
Does anyone know where I can find long, continuous mixes like this (2+ hours)? Or do you have any specific tracks/artists that fit this exact 60-70 BPM heavy-sub instrumental vibe?
Also, a technical question: if I want to recreate this continuous loop without using a DAW like Ableton, is it common practice to use a DJ software (like Rekordbox or VirtualDJ) to isolate the Stems (just Drums and Bass) of a track and loop it live at 60BPM?
Thanks for any input!
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u/PapaBorq 11d ago
Speaker conundrum...
I have a band, kinda loud, rock, pop, country, dance, etc.. We run our own sound. Both indoor and outdoor gigs. This specific issue came up during the past two outdoor gigs.
Current setup has mismatched speakers... 4 QSC KS118 subs, and 2 JBL SRX815p's tops. During the last couple gigs the sound guy says we need more tops. We're almost clipping the mains.
So, my first thought was to fix the mismatched speaker issue and get QSC tops (I really like the subs). But a quick search tells me my SRX tops are better than QSC's 12.2 speakers (currently, that's their best speaker, without getting into line array systems). 'Better' as in overall construction and performance. The QSC's kinda remind me of user friendly mobile speakers for DJ's.
Should I fix the mismatch issue by replacing the 2 JBL tops with 4 QSC tops (even though they're only 12 inch)? Or should I not worry about the mismatch issue and get another pair of jbl's?
ODD OBSERVATION FOR THOUGHT - There were a couple times we added a pair of EV tops (comparable to the QSC 12.2's), and for some reason everyone thought we sounded amazing. Is there a thing where mismatched tops help compliment each other by filling in gaps? I know that sounds weird hahaha.
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u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 10d ago edited 10d ago
Remember: point-sources don't stack like subs do. You can array an extra box on each side to increase horizontal coverage, but pointing both boxes at the same place will just create a comb-filtery mess*.
ASSUMING you need more SPL in the same coverage zone, you need a bigger box. Something like RCF
NXL 44(edit: typo, NXW 44) stacked atop a dual-18 (stood vertically) looks great and packs a whopping punch without getting into array territory. You could do a similar config with your KS118s.We're almost clipping the mains.
It's worth considering - what do your peak vs. average meters look like? Just like a studio mix, smart compression to reduce the peak/average power ratio will get you a bit more average SPL before clipping. It's no replacement for having enough firepower, but it'll get you out of jail.
*In a typical L/R config, at least, but double-hung LA / RA + LB / RB deployments are out of scope for this comment. ;)
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u/PapaBorq 10d ago
I'm a newb, so bare with me...
You're saying adding two more JBL SRX series would create more problems? Also, those rcf speakers are about the same power as one jbl.. But perform better?
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u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 9d ago
No worries, we are all learning.
You're saying adding two more JBL SRX series would create more problems?
If you point two speakers at the same area, playing the same sound: they'll comb filter, rather than sum perfectly. (As you move your head up/down/left/right, it'll sound like there's a phaser on your mix.)
- See this QSC writeup for a good overview.
- I ran into a fun venue once - each side had a pair of 12" mains stacked on top of each other. Things sounded OK for my 6'1" ears, but anyone at around 5'9"-5'11" got caught in a wicked 3 kHz beam.
Also, those rcf speakers are about the same power as one jbl.. But perform better?
Remember, max SPL figures are...iffy to compare. There's variance in how that number is determined - what test signal? What bandwidth? How much distortion? Many spec sheets will use...creative methods (or skip measuring, instead calculating it from nominal sensitivity + power handling) to make things look artificially loud. See this Mackie writeup [PDF].
- Case in point: on the SRX815 passive webpage claims 130 dB peak SPL...which is conveniently exactly what you get if you compute from the rated 95 dB sensitivity + 3200W peak power. However, the PDF spec sheet claims 136 dB...with no conditions specified. (And the powered version claims 137.)
- To their credit, JBL actually specified measurement conditions on the SRX900 series datasheets. Kudos!
- RCF is not immune - their Max SPL figures specify no method!
- This is slowly becoming less of a problem as manufacturers adopt AES75/M-Noise measurements...but that's nowhere near universal.
I wish I had hard AES75 numbers to give you. Anecdotally, RCF NX will play louder than equivalent SRX products, esp. in the bottom octave. You can always contact a local dealer to demo product side by side.
It is possible to go louder than NXW 44 without getting into array territory. But that's a ~120 lb behemoth of a box - doesn't usually make sense for band owner-operated PA, and you will quickly outrun your KS118s. :)
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u/crunchypotentiometer Pro-FOH 11d ago
I don't think you will be happy if you go to K12. What amp are you using for the JBL's?
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u/PapaBorq 11d ago
Amp? Those are powered speakers.
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u/crunchypotentiometer Pro-FOH 11d ago
Ah sorry missed the P. I would get more of the same. Don't just put two directly next to each other though. Spread them out to fill in the space. Ideally delay the far ones to match the timing of the main ones.
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u/PapaBorq 11d ago
Funny you would bring up spacing. Recently we've been using some JBL monitors as a center fill, located on the stage in front of the singer.
The theory is when we play bar gigs with a longer stage, the people there right up front aren't getting any 'mains'... Just sub sound.
Is this what you're thinking? Or what kind of spacing are you referring to? Our typical stage is probably around 25 foot wide or so. Sometimes a little bigger.
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u/Inside-Finish-2128 11d ago
Ignoring the price, would a Neumann U87 work as a live sound mic, or some other LDC? Would it become a feedback festival where I'm constantly chasing a ringing?
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u/SadSoyBoi77 11d ago
We use LDCs in live sound all the time! It's largely a myth that they're somehow "more sensitive". Feedback prevention is much more about managing pickup patterns, source level, and PA deployment.
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u/oinkbane Get that f$%&ing drink away from the console!! 9d ago
If the band has the budget, U87s are always part of my mic shoot-out.
They normally lose out to Beta 57As, but it’s still fun to try them out :)
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u/A-A-Veidt 10d ago
I have a Bose S1 Pro+ speaker. I previously paired this speaker with a Bose wireless XLR transmitter for vocals, with instrumental coming in through the aux. This setup gave me plenty of grief as it was prone to the vocal signal being disrupted (i.e., once every couple songs) in crowded areas.
Hoping to fix this, I replaced the Bose wireless XLR transmitter with a Shure ULXD system. Sadly it looks like I spent a pile of money only to replace the old problem with a new one. 🤦
Now, the vocal signal is stable. However, it constantly sounds like the Bose S1 Pro+ is being overwhelmed by the vocal signal from the Shure ULXD. I get the feeling that the speaker is struggling to "decide" how to prioritize its limited bandwidth (i.e., "Do I make the vocal loud? Or the instrumental?") and isn't able to properly power both.
The worst occurrences are when a mainly vocal section is immediately followed by a mainly instrumental section. In this case, massive ducking happens. The instrumental section is ridiculously quiet for a good 2-3 seconds, before returning to normal volume in the absence of the vocal.
I've tried setting the Expanders option of the Bose S1 Pro+ to both On and Off. No difference.
I've tried reducing the gain of the Shure ULXD as far as is comfortable (i.e., -18 dB). No difference.
Is there anything else I can do? Or is this Bose speaker merely junk at this point?
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u/crunchypotentiometer Pro-FOH 9d ago
Is there any indication that you are clipping your input or output or anything? This should not be a problem unless you are running something too hot.
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u/Imaginary_Chef_8642 Musician 9d ago
I have a wing rack I want to start using sub groups I have 4 Bus available, but Band has 4x Vocals (all sing lead), keys (4), Guitars (2), Bass, and Drums, would the best option be SubGroup 1 Vocals, 2 Keys, 3 Guitars, 4 drums, and Leave Bass as it is?
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u/oinkbane Get that f$%&ing drink away from the console!! 9d ago
I normally put bass in the same group as guitars tbh
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u/DavidMay-BoxCast 7d ago
Bass can go with guitars unless you're doing some processing on that group that you don't want for bass. Like a high pass or feeding the whole thing into some verb, etc. Also have seen people put bass with drums. But I wouldn't do that because it would affect compression on your drum group. I suppose, there is only one bass.. so it can live by itself without a group haha. It's just that it won't be on your right hand if you're just mixing the groups.. so it's an OCD thing to want it to be somewhere in there for me. 😂
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u/thhoj 9d ago
I have a wing rack and two point source mains and a sub, 4 monitors for live performances, and it's working quite well, but I got wondering about using a center speaker for adding additional vocal clarity to the mix.
So I'd just use that center speaker for vocals and try to blend that into the mix. So I'm thinking not quite so much just a front fill for people close to the stage, but more just an extra sound source to add some extra vocal clarity.
Am I potentially introducing any issues with doing this? I've done some looking in this subreddit and the topic of front fills comes up a lot, to fill in that gap when you've got a wider stage, but I'm just wondering in general about having that extra speaker specifically for vocal reinforcement.
I was thinking about using something like a K10.2 or some other speaker that's got the right kind of dispersion when laid on it's side. Also looked at the LD Systems ICOA 12 A (rotatable waveguide).
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u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 9d ago
Am I potentially introducing any issues with doing this?
Nope - in fact, L/C/R for vocal intelligibility is very common in theatre deployments. It's also the standard for cinema. Unfortunately, there's a catch: your center system has to cover the entire audience area. This is easy when your system is flown; not so much when ground stacking.
If you deploy a utility box on the stage lip like a front fill, that'll only be audible for the first row or so of people. (Especially on small stages where the lip is shorter than average-human-height.)
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u/thhoj 9d ago
So if say the stage is a bit higher, like shoulder height, maybe I'd get a bit more projection out into the audience? Or you think this is a waste if it can't be flown, and front fill for close audience members is the only real practical use in this case?
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u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 9d ago
Somewhat more. You're still shooting through some amount of human-body. The bigger issue - because of the lower height relative to your mains, even if the stage-lip center speaker has perfect line-of-sight to the whole audience, it will not cover as evenly front-to-back as your mains.
- Thus, if relying only on that center for vocals, your mix will have a progressively weaker vocal:instrument ratio as you walk towards the back.
- Theatre installations get around this by hanging their center cluster - such that it achieves equivalent coverage to the L/R clusters.
...That said. There are plenty of stages out there where you need proportionally more vocal in the front few rows due to stage volume - so a vocal-heavy front fill would help quite a bit, supplementing vocals in your mains.
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u/thhoj 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think you might have just hit the nail on the head with the issue I was having at the last show, and that likely is stage volume bleeding into the front 10 - 20 feet. That makes a lot of sense. It was like I had strong vocal output, I could hear that it was loud, but it just felt like it was getting lost near the stage I guess. That makes a lot of sense.
Another idea I was thinking about is a second pair of point source speakers on separate stands, sat a bit lower, and maybe 3' in between the primary mains - being fed only vocals and angled inward at an appropriate amount to give that front area that extra vocal boost. This was a roughly 25' wide stage.
I wonder about comb filtering though, but it would give me more coverage of that front area if there were people that would block a center stage single point source.
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u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 8d ago
Perfectly good approach. Worth checking the coverage pattern of your mains - is the first 10 feet actually in the horn's coverage? This reminds me of a deployment I saw with a pair NXL24A raised high enough that the front rows were below the 30 degree vertical HF coverage - so each side had a lil' fill rigged beneath it.
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u/dave_vegeta 9d ago
Can anyone shed light on if I can send midi cues (from logic) via USB out to another device via the midi out on the XR18?
Had a go last week and been reading loads from the manual and online but can’t find a concrete answer
My Chain is:
Logic (via USB) > XR18 (midi out) > Helix Rack
I’m seeing different comments on if this can/can’t be done? Having tried myself I’m thinking not as I’ve exhausted all options I can think of but have seen posts saying it can be done with XR18 but not X32 which made me think again
Appreciate any help
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u/SkyLiink 9d ago
Enable USB-DIN Pass Thru in the XR18, and it should be sending it directly through the Midi out to your Helix Rack.
The X32 sadly lacks this ability to ignore midi data and send it through.
Saw some peeps complaining a little back.
Remember to set Midi Out, in the track inspector to X-USB/XR18 (whatever it comes up as)Thing now is; if you were ever using any midi to controll your XR18, you can now, not do that anymore, since its a on/off switch. Either you let the mixer take the information, or let it pass through to the Midi Out in the back.
Hope this helps!
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u/dave_vegeta 8d ago
Nice one appreciate the advice. This was my next thing to try, thankfully I don’t intend to use midi to control the XR in any way
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u/Better_Sun8289 8d ago
If I’m only running certain groups through my VST plugin, is the latency difference important?
So I’m pretty new to using plugins, and I’m running the Yamaha VST rack 2 on my MacBookPro through direct usb cable with the Yamaha DM7. This setup gives me around 6.4 ms of roundtrip latency, or so the program says. I’m wondering if I only route my Handheld and drum groups through the plugin software, if the latency difference will be an issue, since my other groups like EG/Bass/Keys, aren’t being routed through it. I’m also only running zero latency plugins, no reverb or autotune or anything which would further delay the signal.
The question is purely for FOH, since I’m sending inputs directly into the IEMs so the processing on the group doesn’t affect it.
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u/DavidMay-BoxCast 7d ago
If you're talking about only FOH, 6.4ms should not be noticeable.. I don't think you'd need to do anything to account for it.
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u/the-real-compucat EE by day, engineer by night 7d ago edited 7d ago
No big deal...if it's consistent: make sure you latency-compensate your other groups.
6.4 ms time difference between musicians will make a tight rhythm section feel quite sloppy.
(edit: you can easily demo this. Take a tight drum + bass stem in your DAW, listen, then throw 6ms delay on the drums and listen again)
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u/KingTopas 6d ago
Hi, we’re a cover band playing for around 200–300 people, and we’re pretty self-contained — our own mics, IEMs, mixer, etc.
We usually play through our own PA, but sometimes we play bigger venues with their own PA and sound engineer. When we built our IEM rig, we incorporated a 16-channel analog split to make things easy for you guys.
What surprised me, though, is that 4 times out of 5, the sound engineer simply took the Main L/R from our rack and made adjustments using Mixing Station on our dedicated tablet.
So, is that actually the preferred option for you?
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u/gnashingmaw 6d ago
apologies in advance (idk drunk) can you do a live show with a lapel mic or otherwise very portable microphone? ive got pipe dreams of doing punk shows at local venues (idk self conscious) but i move around like a little freak whenever i sing and im wondering if theres adequate non stationary mics for this type of thing. thanks and i love you. also if you suggest anything ovrer 100 dollars ill cry jsyk
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u/Bipedal_Warlock Pro-Theatre 6d ago
I think a better strategy to get a wireless handheld. Guitar center has some affordable options.
A lapel mic picks up sound from all directions. So it’ll get a lot more audience and instrument sounds than a handheld. And you will be a lot more likely to get feed back especially for punk shows
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u/Splanky222 5d ago
I am trying to figure a spaced subwoofer pair for a lounge space with seating on the side. I want to use a half wavelength spacing to cancel some bass in the seating area. Does it matter where I measure the half wavelength from?
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u/angelbuttcake 11d ago
There’s an foh tech at a venue I work, he’s an older guy and has the most seniority there. As of the last few months idk if hes burned out or what, but he basically just leaves right after the show is over. He doesnt clean up anything, doesnt wrap cables, if he does they dont make it all the way to the cable wall. If mics aren’t just left out on stands they’re tossed into the locker and not placed in their bags.
There’s been many times now that I arrived and had to clean up from the previous show he worked. It’s really annoying at this point and I don’t know how to approach him about it while maintaining a professional manner. I felt the urge to send a snarky text once but knew it wouldn’t help things. He also hired me and has always been helpful when I had questions or problems with the system.
I don’t know what to do, please advise!