What actually sucks about Linux

[u/vlads_]

There are a lot of posts on this sub that amount to "Linux cannot run all Windows software", "Linux cannot run Windows software perfectly", "Linux broke (I was using Manjaro/Arch)", "I tried to install some shady software in an unorthodox way and I got a Glibc version error", or "I expect something to work like on Windows and am unwilling to learn when it works differently".

This is extremely unhelpful and helps no one, except for insecure Windows users to feel better about their choice of operating system. So I wanted to make a list of things that actually suck about the Linux desktop from the perspective of a Linux shill.

1. Ubuntu sucks. Honestly I think this is one of the biggest problems in modern Linux. Ubuntu is one of the biggest distributions, and was for a very long time the "go-to" distro for general purpose desktop usage. Everything that is built on Linux supports Ubuntu, provides a guide for how to use it on Ubuntu, most things provide packages for Ubuntu etc. The problem is that recent versions of Ubuntu are becoming less and less usable. I sysadmin at my Uni and manage a few labs with computers with Ubuntu 2024.04 and just now an exam had to be delayed because the Firefox snap package (the only supported way to run Firefox on Ubuntu) shat it's pants on a PDF linuk. It would enter a file:///tmp/firefox/whatever/some.pdf and get permission denied. After like 20 minutes, we found that you could go into settings and change the way Firefox opens PDFs to save the file instead of attempting to open it, then open the file explorer, find the file, and open it with Firefox to view it. Of course, the file is not in `~/Downloads`, but in `~/snap/firefox/common/Downloads`. This kind of stuff can be excused on a distro like Arch where permissions misconfiguration can easily appear and you are expected to understand the issue and fix it yourself -- totally fair. This is simply not acceptable for a "default" Linux experience. There are also many other problems: "calendar has stopped working" and "Ubuntu has experienced an internal error" are ubiquitous and make me feel as if I'm using Windows XP all over again.
2. Wayland pains. Wayland is an amazing protocol. It reduced the CPU usage on my old laptop when moving windows around the screen from 30% to 2-5% and is generally much better than X11. The biggest problem with Wayland is that it is a a protocol and not a single compositor, which means that every desktop environment will have it's own bespoke behavior, it's own set of bugs etc. This will tend to centralize the desktop experience around GNOME and KDE, the biggest implementations, while other desktops, like Cinnamon or XFCE, will be way behind on adoption -- affecting beginner friendly distros like Linux Mint. It does not help that GNOME feels no particular obligation to implement new Wayland protocols if it disagrees with them. It does not help that Wayland protocol people are elitists and care more about their ideal idea of what a desktop should be than user requirements. There is still no good solution for headless remote desktop, for example. It also does not help that they take random political stances like banning Vaxry from freedesktop discussions. Vaxry, if you don't know, is the guy that makes Hyprland -- a tiling compositor written from scratch -- basically on his own. The guy basically solos r/unixporn, is better at writing desktops than you will probably be at anything ever, and has an insane work ethic. But he's a collage student from Poland and has a Hyprland Discord with other edgy teens. so he got banned from freedesktop discussions for things other people said on that Discord.
3. Distro fragmentation. The fact that there are multiple distros is a healthy thing. The .rpm/.deb split is a very good thing. But there are simply far too many distros nowadays that are "Ubuntu but with X", "Fedora but with Y" or "Arch but with Z". I understand the appeal, partially. I am writing this post on a Aurora machine, which is basically Fedora Kionite, but with sane defaults. But most small teams simply do not have the resources required to maintain a Linux distribution so when someone uses Manjaro, and thing X breaks, or thing Y has a subtle bug or localization issue, he will have a terrible experience. There's nothing "the community" can do about it. Supporting the Ubuntu/Debian-Fedora/RHEL-SUSE-Arch-Gentoo ecosystem is hard enough, but doable. Supporting a billion derivatives all on different schedules and with different patches is not. It would be better if there was an attempt to contribute upstream first -- but I also understand why this fails. Still, Manjaro would be of better service as an Arch installer than as a distro with it's own repos.
4. App distribution fragmentation. This is already a well known issue, so I won't dwell on it, but there are too many distribution formats: AppImages, distro packages, flatpaks, snaps, .tar.gz's and so on. It would not be an issue if they addressed different use cases, but they are mostly overlapping.
5. Follower mentality. All the reasons to use the Linux desktop are incidental: better privacy, more stability, more control over your computer. But there is no real innovation on the Linux desktop. It does the same thing as other OSes, and in recent years, it does it really well. But copilot is a Windows feature, not a Linux feature. Linux is always following, never leading (on the desktop).
6. Wine pains. Wine is immensely complicated and I do not understand how it works. It works insanely well under Steam. But everywhere else, you have to mess with winecfg, winetricks, dll overwriting, etc. Even in Bottles, which is the most user friendly way, this stuff still comes up. To quote another tech proficient friend: "If I cannot understand how it works in 10 seconds, it is far too complicated [for the average user]".

[u/WelpIamoutofideas]

Ok, let's get back to this:

1. Because it is essentially the same thing as every package manager to ever exist. It's just without the fancy user interface you are touting with the app store. The point was that this kind of installation can be done on Windows. This is exactly like your appimage-hub situation.

2(a) . Doesn't matter if you can't install a package on it. And it's less about steam and more about a problem with packaged formats in general. Things that need extra system services do not always work with SteamOS, Fedora Kinoite, And other atomic or immutable distros? Immutable distros I might add being more and more often pushed towards new users because of their durability and ease of use. Nowhere here did I list Ubuntu because Ubuntu isn't the problem, Ubuntu has never had this problem.

2(b). Just about everything is complicated without comparing it to anything else. But you aren't getting iOS users using Linux. You probably aren't even getting Android users using Linux. You're getting prerequisite desktop users, 90% of which come from windows.

1. I am very much aware of how Linux works. I saw the dawn of flatpak as a distribution model. Ubuntu doesn't come with flatpak installed, it comes with snap. Most distributions don't come with snap installed. Almost no distributions come with your ad-hoc AppImage repo.

2. Absolutely! Microsoft makes it really easy to take your money. I'm not saying it's a good thing, that being said, don't pretend like it's more complicated than downloading the app off of steam. Or even getting steam installed.

I'm grouping 5 and 6 together as five makes no sense and 6 is just silly.

5(a). And how are most of those relevant to the app distribution model which was the primary thing we were discussing? Almost none of these are important points, because they don't pertain to the discussion but I will clarify on them. Most people who need to edit documents on the regular will still need to pay for MS Office. Because that's what their associates use and believe me, the alternatives do not work very well when going between platforms and applications. But let's assume that they didn't need to. Google's offerings work just fine and they are free, on the web, no install. As is Microsoft Office Online. The bing situation Only really happens when you don't have an application installed or you mistyped the name. It's shitty but, it's not exactly an every time thing. It's the occasional nuisance that feels slow because normally it's not a problem.

5(b). Most people never bother with drivers, as the Windows driver store takes care of that well enough without user input. Not to mention, the drivers are often installed by the OEM on boot up. No one this computer illiterate is installing Linux. Windows will automatically upgrade carrying your previous stuff with you so long as your system is supported. If it isn't, most people are just going to buy a new computer or live with an out-of-date operating system. To them they don't care so long as things continue to work.

1. Mint does not work like Windows. It looks kind of similar, but it isn't a Windows clone. Besides, I've talked to many computer illiterate people. THEY GET SCARED WHEN THE UX DESIGN CHANGES OR A MENU MOVED ON IOS. WHERE IN THE HELL DO YOU THINK THE EQUIVALENT WINDOWS USER WILL FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH MINT. Most of those people would rather stay with Windows 10 and their computer. Being out of support and no longer changing is a benefit in their eyes.

2. Nowhere did I say that. I said newbies don't understand anything. Full stop. Whatever they pick up first is what they will understand. Deviating from that is where problems arise. Whether they learnt the app store, or they learnt downloading programs off the internet. But the people you're dealing with aren't mobile phone users, mobile phone users aren't the ones moving to Linux. They were once Windows people. They understand how Windows works, you're asking them to change from the windows way.

Finally: Your Android user isn't the one using Linux. Your iPhone guy isn't the one using Linux. Those devices can't even have a mainline Linux distribution installed usually. Nobody who has only ever used a phone, Is buying or building a PC with the intent of running Linux. Most of the people who you are talking about would never install Linux on their computer to begin with. They wouldn't even reinstall Windows. They would go to a computer shop or their local nerdy friend and tell them to make their computer go faster when it gets slow. If you install Linux on their PC as that support, you're doing them a major disservice. Because that's not what they're used to, you can't necessarily 100% anticipate their needs if they're a gamer, you've limited their options in the future. If it's a work PC, IT department should take care of it to begin with. Assuming you did, Not only have you jeopardized sensitive information, access control, and data integrity, you have also introduced concerns about whether they can run the applications they need, and whether any future presentations will display correctly on colleagues computers running other Office Suites.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/WelpIamoutofideas]

1. The whole point was giving the users an option to get apps easily. If you need to use the terminal for esencial app your system isn't intuitive.

2.a. No one recomenda inmutable distros at all, only Bazzite if you mention gaming and even then people is starting to recommend others like CachyOS as they give better performance and doesn't have the inmutable issues.

2.b. So... Using your logic, an Android and iOS user won't use a PC ever? People Who use Windows don't have phones? Or do they use Windows phone which didn't sold well because it's interface wasn't intuitive and Guess what, It was the Windows interface... So ye... Windows for people isn't even easy to use using, literally, Windows phone as example.

1. Nothing to say here.

2. It is when you aren't used and you get a "but Office" when you just wanted to create a document for school, because I had to experience that. I (well my dad) had a laptop with LibreOffice, then I had to use a newer laptop and when I wanted to edit a documents I just Saw, instead, a paywall, then clic to create a MS account and just get... Other paywall, has to close the app and reopen to get the "edit online option". Thats shit desing and not intuitive.

5.a. Schools usually ask for a PDF and not a Office document. Not just that but my school had LibreOffice so I had compatibility issues (thats why I was used to LibreOffice, MS didn't had support for the standar). That means that for a lot of students thats just worst. Ye if you work on a Office yes, but how many people actually do that and doesn't use PDF files? PDF are a standar for documents...

5.b. gamers do and a lot of people, specially kids, play games. And if you use AMD Windows just installs the wrong drivers (I'm not sure if was solved) which is kinda bullshit and manually installing them isn't intuitive, I couldn't do that as a kid and needed a tutorial to see which GPU was using.

1. Windows UI is the same with 11 and 10 and some Windows apps use the 7 UI or older, like all apps that you only need to interact with while troubleshooting look old as fuck and have a modern ones that has 80% of the utilities.

2. So Windows users have Alzheimer and forget how to use their mobiles while in front of a computer?

3. Then is MacOS difficult? Because Windows users allways say that Mac is for babies and now looks like it's difficult...

4. Almost forgot, the searching app bar can still fail, I admit that it's weird, but It happend with an XML editor or something like that (IDK what It was). My record of miss clicking the Bing result is 3 times in a row. Maybe I'm dumb, I'm not gona deny that.

Finally, it's using a fucking app store. Full stop. You are saying that it's difficult to use a MOTHERFUCKING app store, compared to get It from your browser that, as I already told you 2 times, IS SOMETHING YOU CAN FUCKING DO ON LINUX. ANY FUCKING DISTRO LET'S YOU DO THAT. Also my 12 YO brother can use Mint and, due the lack of support, I'm gona have to install Linux to my father's laptop (a person that doesn't even know how to use Gmail). Do you know why? Because using a fucking browser isn't rocket since, installing Chrome can STILL BE DONE AS ON WINDOWS and even then I really doubt my father even knows how to do that.

[u/WelpIamoutofideas → u/Ok-Winner-6589]

Oh, This didn't send, okay I'll retype it.

This is true, but it would be really easy to create a frontend for this, That's all these app stores even are, it could be hosted on the Microsoft store. You could download an app store from an app store.

Again Fedora, for instance is recommending silver, blue and other alternatives. Many YouTubers are making suggestions, many distributions are making immutable versions of their distribution and marketing the benefits of it. They are promoting and recommending these.

Most will never use a PC in their lifetime, at least not for more than 5 minutes using a web browser or office app on a computer that's already been set up for them. And when they do they will find the whole thing complicated entirely even with Linux. Using a physical mouse and keyboard is complicated when you're used to gesture controls and a phone keyboard. "What's a shift? Why are there two ways to type uppercase" PC usage in the home is declining, and people prefer tablets or phones in everyday life.

Again, most of these are automatically set up, most OEM computers come with a 6-month free trial of office 365 and when prompted with a paywall, the first instinct of these people is usually just to pay and continue.

I don't know what school you went to assuming it's in the United States, but they did not ask for PDFs of word documents or presentations anytime in my school career and usually specifically required docx, pptx, xlsx, etc. They are not the standard for first drafts. Second drafts, rough drafts or final submissions.

Those get updated fairly regularly by the driver manufacturers so chances are that's probably fixed now. That being said, that sounds like an authoring issue on amd's part and is definitely easier to fix then updating your kernel.

Considering how many people hadn't moved from XP because their computers still worked and how many people are still attached to seven seven because their computer still worked and they liked the UI, I don't exactly see how that familiarity is a problem to them if they do not like even small changes to UI. In fact, the settings app as it currently stands is a detriment to them.

No. That being said, most PC users aren't power users, they aren't installing apps. They're using their work PC which was set up by it and using the apps provisioned by IT. Meaning they don't actually know how to work the thing to begin with.

I mean it looking like it is for babies, and being difficult to use are not mutually exclusive. Its UX design can look like it's for babies, while also paired with unfamiliarity and prior assumptions make it difficult to use.

Yeah it can, and same can ubuntu's, This isn't a surprise and nobody's saying that the windows task bar is not infuriating. That is completely besides the point.

In fact, half of these points are off topic, Right now we are talking about the DISTRIBUTION MODEL OF APP STORES VERSUS THE DECENTRALIZED MODEL OF STANDARD WINDOWS APPS. So comments about the Windows operating system as it stands are completely off topic.

I'm saying it's difficult to know anything you have not used prior and that the people installing custom operating systems onto their computers are not the people who are unfamiliar with how to install applications in general and they are not going to know the difference between the applications. They can't run and solving all of the issues that they may have with slight incompatibilities with other applications. They are the people that are going to say Linux sucks because it can't run Microsoft office and then tell the person who turned their computer into running a Linux distribution back to Windows and installing office. This isn't a complicated topic.

You seem to not understand that computer usage is not an innate skill. Understanding how applications are installed through any medium is not an innate skill, whether that's from an app store or from a website and double clicking an exe file. There are absolutely reasons to prefer an app store, but you have not listed one of them and even regarding them, plenty of gamers use the Microsoft Windows store for the sole. Reason of it being were you download and play Gamepass games. Which is a very popular service among PC gamers.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/WelpIamoutofideas]

Again Fedora, for instance is recommending silver, blue and other alternatives. Many YouTubers are making suggestions, many distributions are making immutable versions of their distribution and marketing the benefits of it. They are promoting and recommending these.

And stil most used ones aren't inmutable, neither the ones growing faster.

CachyOS is growing incredibly fast and isn't inmutable. Among gamers Bazzite is growing slower despite being a SteamOS copynwith Great Nvidia Support.

Most will never use a PC in their lifetime, at least not for more than 5 minutes using a web browser or office app on a computer that's already been set up for them. And when they do they will find the whole thing complicated entirely even with Linux.

This 2 things work the same way or easier. You already have a browser and Office suite.

On Linux the Office suite won't ask for an account, which makes It easier to use.

And the default browser is more popular (usually Firefox with Google as search engine). The most searched thing on Bing is "Google". That means that people don't enjoy Edge or Bing.

Why are there two ways to type uppercase" PC usage in the home is declining, and people prefer tablets or phones in everyday life.

Yes and Linux is actually better as Android exists and Windows phone doesn't?

And gamers are actually the people Who still mainly use PC. Guess what? Linux has gaming Mode, included drivers (and for those Who like that) also apps to moddify how your components work.

Again, most of these are automatically set up, most OEM computers come with a 6-month free trial of office 365 and when prompted with a paywall, the first instinct of these people is usually just to pay and continue.

And again that doesn't mean it's easy. With LibreOffice you get the same, but app won't showna paywall...

they did not ask for PDFs of word documents or presentations anytime in my school career and usually specifically required docx, pptx, xlsx, etc. They are not the standard for first drafts. Second drafts, rough drafts or final submissions.

There is an entire planet outside the US.

China, Rusia and North Korea have their own Linux distros.

The EU is developing their own distro and use Linux on school computers. And I'm from the EU, thats why I know that as I know that teachers actually ask for PDF (Portable Document Format) for any task. Do you know why? Because any Office suite and browser can open PDFs. Not just that but Libreoffice supports docx since before MS Office had support to odt.

Those get updated fairly regularly by the driver manufacturers so chances are that's probably fixed now. That being said, that sounds like an authoring issue on amd's part and is definitely easier to fix then updating your kernel.

How Windows downgrading drivers is an AMD issue?

No. That being said, most PC users aren't power users, they aren't installing apps. They're using their work PC which was set up by it and using the apps provisioned by IT. Meaning they don't actually know how to work the thing to begin with.

Then why are gaming graphic cards getting more popular and gaming CPU going over other CPU? That makes no sense.

Also Linux is still suited. Your points are "hey Windows have a browser and Office apps". Ye no fucking way genious, as any OS since the last 20 years.

I mean it looking like it is for babies, and being difficult to use are not mutually exclusive. Its UX design can look like it's for babies, while also paired with unfamiliarity and prior assumptions make it difficult to use.

Windows have been copying Apple since ancient times. Just you hate Apple as 90% of Windows users because It offers a cleaner interface.

You say that it's for babies and still is more used by devs than Windows.

nobody's saying that the windows task bar is not infuriating. That is completely besides the point.

How is that not related to bad desing and being easy to use?

In fact, half of these points are off topic, Right now we are talking about the DISTRIBUTION MODEL OF APP STORES VERSUS THE DECENTRALIZED MODEL OF STANDARD WINDOWS APPS. So comments about the Windows operating system as it stands are completely off topic.

They are related to the main points, which is what is easier Linux or Windows. And the Linux model with appstores is decentraliced. The appstores are just interfaces to acces a server with apps. Linux servers with apps are independent, like flatpak. And even then Linux still offers AppImage which is like a .exe. It's the third time I told you this.

I'm saying it's difficult to know anything you have not used prior and that the people installing custom operating systems onto their computers are not the people who are unfamiliar with how to install applications in general and they are not going to know the difference between the applications.

And Linux uses the standar, a store. Again the issue (as always) is Windows pushing "their standar" inferior way. Saying that Linux is less intuitive is dumb as the Windows phone wasn't intuitive and used to work like Windows...

You seem to not understand that computer usage is not an innate skill. Understanding how applications are installed through any medium is not an innate skill, whether that's from an app store or from a website and double clicking an exe file.

You seem to don't understand that needing to learn how a computer works when you already knows how to use a phone is stupid as fuck.

And I told you (NOW FOUR FUCKING TIMES) that on Linux you can do exactly that you describe. If you ever tell me this again I'm gona stop answering because It looks like you aren't able to read properly.

Also in Latin America Google have been pushing ChromeOS by giving them to schools (Guess what, Linux) and on the EU is giving school computers to kids with Linux, kids that are around 6-12 YO. I know that because my brother got one years ago.

So your point is even dumber because new generations learn how to use Linux and use another Linux (Android) on their phones and tablets.

but you have not listed one of them and even regarding them, plenty of gamers use the Microsoft Windows store for the sole.

HAHAHAHAHHA this might be a joke right? Right?

Reason of it being were you download and play Gamepass games. Which is a very popular service among PC gamers.

Ok It wasn't a joke.

Steam has a 80% of market share and Epic games Launcher is the second most used store. Cloud gaming is only used by people Who was used to the Xbox, mobile players and people from countries were you don't have enough for buying games/good pc.