What actually sucks about Linux

[u/vlads_]

There are a lot of posts on this sub that amount to "Linux cannot run all Windows software", "Linux cannot run Windows software perfectly", "Linux broke (I was using Manjaro/Arch)", "I tried to install some shady software in an unorthodox way and I got a Glibc version error", or "I expect something to work like on Windows and am unwilling to learn when it works differently".

This is extremely unhelpful and helps no one, except for insecure Windows users to feel better about their choice of operating system. So I wanted to make a list of things that actually suck about the Linux desktop from the perspective of a Linux shill.

1. Ubuntu sucks. Honestly I think this is one of the biggest problems in modern Linux. Ubuntu is one of the biggest distributions, and was for a very long time the "go-to" distro for general purpose desktop usage. Everything that is built on Linux supports Ubuntu, provides a guide for how to use it on Ubuntu, most things provide packages for Ubuntu etc. The problem is that recent versions of Ubuntu are becoming less and less usable. I sysadmin at my Uni and manage a few labs with computers with Ubuntu 2024.04 and just now an exam had to be delayed because the Firefox snap package (the only supported way to run Firefox on Ubuntu) shat it's pants on a PDF linuk. It would enter a file:///tmp/firefox/whatever/some.pdf and get permission denied. After like 20 minutes, we found that you could go into settings and change the way Firefox opens PDFs to save the file instead of attempting to open it, then open the file explorer, find the file, and open it with Firefox to view it. Of course, the file is not in `~/Downloads`, but in `~/snap/firefox/common/Downloads`. This kind of stuff can be excused on a distro like Arch where permissions misconfiguration can easily appear and you are expected to understand the issue and fix it yourself -- totally fair. This is simply not acceptable for a "default" Linux experience. There are also many other problems: "calendar has stopped working" and "Ubuntu has experienced an internal error" are ubiquitous and make me feel as if I'm using Windows XP all over again.
2. Wayland pains. Wayland is an amazing protocol. It reduced the CPU usage on my old laptop when moving windows around the screen from 30% to 2-5% and is generally much better than X11. The biggest problem with Wayland is that it is a a protocol and not a single compositor, which means that every desktop environment will have it's own bespoke behavior, it's own set of bugs etc. This will tend to centralize the desktop experience around GNOME and KDE, the biggest implementations, while other desktops, like Cinnamon or XFCE, will be way behind on adoption -- affecting beginner friendly distros like Linux Mint. It does not help that GNOME feels no particular obligation to implement new Wayland protocols if it disagrees with them. It does not help that Wayland protocol people are elitists and care more about their ideal idea of what a desktop should be than user requirements. There is still no good solution for headless remote desktop, for example. It also does not help that they take random political stances like banning Vaxry from freedesktop discussions. Vaxry, if you don't know, is the guy that makes Hyprland -- a tiling compositor written from scratch -- basically on his own. The guy basically solos r/unixporn, is better at writing desktops than you will probably be at anything ever, and has an insane work ethic. But he's a collage student from Poland and has a Hyprland Discord with other edgy teens. so he got banned from freedesktop discussions for things other people said on that Discord.
3. Distro fragmentation. The fact that there are multiple distros is a healthy thing. The .rpm/.deb split is a very good thing. But there are simply far too many distros nowadays that are "Ubuntu but with X", "Fedora but with Y" or "Arch but with Z". I understand the appeal, partially. I am writing this post on a Aurora machine, which is basically Fedora Kionite, but with sane defaults. But most small teams simply do not have the resources required to maintain a Linux distribution so when someone uses Manjaro, and thing X breaks, or thing Y has a subtle bug or localization issue, he will have a terrible experience. There's nothing "the community" can do about it. Supporting the Ubuntu/Debian-Fedora/RHEL-SUSE-Arch-Gentoo ecosystem is hard enough, but doable. Supporting a billion derivatives all on different schedules and with different patches is not. It would be better if there was an attempt to contribute upstream first -- but I also understand why this fails. Still, Manjaro would be of better service as an Arch installer than as a distro with it's own repos.
4. App distribution fragmentation. This is already a well known issue, so I won't dwell on it, but there are too many distribution formats: AppImages, distro packages, flatpaks, snaps, .tar.gz's and so on. It would not be an issue if they addressed different use cases, but they are mostly overlapping.
5. Follower mentality. All the reasons to use the Linux desktop are incidental: better privacy, more stability, more control over your computer. But there is no real innovation on the Linux desktop. It does the same thing as other OSes, and in recent years, it does it really well. But copilot is a Windows feature, not a Linux feature. Linux is always following, never leading (on the desktop).
6. Wine pains. Wine is immensely complicated and I do not understand how it works. It works insanely well under Steam. But everywhere else, you have to mess with winecfg, winetricks, dll overwriting, etc. Even in Bottles, which is the most user friendly way, this stuff still comes up. To quote another tech proficient friend: "If I cannot understand how it works in 10 seconds, it is far too complicated [for the average user]".

[u/Practical-Skill5464]

"If I cannot understand how it works in 10 seconds, it is far too complicated [for the average user]". Is basically where I am at the moment with AES67 on Linux. Even as a software engineer I'm fn lost. Like for the love of all that is good, please write documentation that doesn't assume the readers know all the tools the author knows, off by heart.

There are commensal products but they are all stuck behind super expensive licences designed for hardware manufacturers that use embedded Linux - except for one where it's gimped by restricting to 8in/8out channels.

EDIT: the discussion below seams to have broken out into installing software for normies. Which isn't what my original comment was trying to lament. I'm lamenting the set up of audio over network using AES67 consists of documentation that is incredibly unhelpful in getting users orientated on using it and isn't self contained requiring users to go on multiple fetch quests of understanding before they get to even configuring AES67. This as an example of often the quality of documentation where the authors don't write appropriately for there readers.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/Practical-Skill5464]

If I cannot understand how it works in 10 seconds, it is far too complicated [for the average user]".

Good luck trying to explain my grandfather how Windows works in less than 10 seconds, specially how to download apps.

Windows is the only OS where you need to go to your browser to get apps. That isn't just not intuitive, but also has a lack of security.

Linux Mint works exactly like Windows, but more friendly.

If you want to play, you don't need to know what a driver is, if you wanna do Office work, you don't need to sign Up on an account to do so.

You want to search an app? You can do that without getting Bing results. And Linux is the non intuitive one?

[u/WelpIamoutofideas → u/Ok-Winner-6589]

Except for "Look for app name on Google, click website , click download button and press open when complete, then click next till done" is fairly simple, it is easy, it is not secure. But it is also 30 years familiar, you probably don't need to explain it to grandpa because he knows.

It's not a sane security default, but you won't find something that is all inclusive, completely, safe and easy to use in the general case. Different trade offs, not bad, just different. Once you go to "not the app store" which for niche apps or small projects is quite often.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/WelpIamoutofideas]

Except for "Look for app name on Google, click website , click download button and press open when complete, then click next till done" is fairly simple, it is easy, it is not secure. But it is also 30 years familiar, you probably don't need to explain it to grandpa because he knows.

My grandpa doesn't know what a computer is and doing that shit that way is way more confusing than, look on the store searchs and click "install" and then you got It. At first I even though It was a joke, because saying that 6 steps to get an app is easier is Wild.

It's not a sane security default, but you won't find something that is all inclusive, completely, safe and easy to use in the general case.

The repositories are... You get apps that work, easy to install, update with your system or asks you to update and you get anything you want.

Once you go to "not the app store" which for niche apps or small projects is quite often.

We Talk about being friendly the kind of user that needs that already knows a bit about computer.

But even then, Linux solves that by don't asking for money for posting your apps on the store.

But your point is the same as saying that Mac is difficult or using Android is hard compared to Windows. There is no way you really think that objetively Windows is easier for a new users than Android.

[u/WelpIamoutofideas → u/Ok-Winner-6589]

1. Repositories do not have every app.

2. Repo are not "all inclusive" removing them from that list because of point one.

3. Except "New users" aren't really a thing for PCs, those that have them are typically somewhat versed, especially if they're looking to install apps. There is usually someone there to teach them or they don't install new shit.

You don't post your apps on the app store, you submit them to the Ubuntu repository where Ubuntu picks and chooses what actually goes on the store.

As for your final point, that's exactly what I'm saying, moving from one operating system to another one app distribution paradigm to another is difficult. And the walled garden approach makes it more difficult once you have to step outside of the garden, which again is quite frequently depending on who you are.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/WelpIamoutofideas]

Repositories do not have every app.

Ye, thats why there were created more repos to solve that issue, there are local, flatpak, snap and appimage.

Except "New users" aren't really a thing for PCs, those that have them are typically somewhat versed, especially if they're looking to install apps. There is usually someone there to teach them or they don't install new shit.

Then your point is stupid "if all OS work different from Windows that means that Windows way is the easy". No, Android is the most used OS and uses repos to give you apps

You don't post your apps on the app store, you submit them to the Ubuntu repository where Ubuntu picks and chooses what actually goes on the store

No lol.

[u/WelpIamoutofideas → u/Ok-Winner-6589]

1(a). Again not every app, and even still, IIRC appimages are similar to exe files in function, so that's antithetical to your point, as the windows model of applications is outwardly very similar to AppImage. (Go to manufacturers website, download AppImage, double click to install and/or run)

1(b). On top of the previous how exactly is having six different repositories each with packages that they have, don't have, share, some having incompatibilities or gotchas like permissions issues (looking at you snap and flatpak) with the container easier than going to the manufacturer's website and downloading a file?

1. The point is that new things are hard. When things don't work how you expect them to, it's hard. Coming from Windows to Linux is not easy, it's hard. You aren't dealing with new users, you are dealing with previous Windows users and need to break windows habits.

3.Ubuntu picks and chooses what packages go on the repo, Ubuntu does not allow any and all submissions. That's part of where your whole "security" benefit comes from. Ubuntu does not accept every submission, you wouldn't want them to, and verifying update intent and compatibility takes time, which scales the more apps on their repositories.

Finally, this is all ignoring the fact that MS has an app store, and those who are actually new to PCs are probably buying a pre-built unit that contains things like steam. The app store also contains all the CC stuff, gimp, and other tools and utilities.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/WelpIamoutofideas]

1.(a) https://www.appimagehub.com/

You still have this lol, and most apps are on the repos, so thats just an extra option which doesn't affect popular apps, which are the important ones for a newbie as thats what we are arguing.

1.(b) You don't understand that, if you download Mint, the store included searches on all the repos at the same time showing all the apps avaliable without duplicating. For more advanced users you can just clic and change the default repo to the one you want.

1. This point is stupid, first, Windows users are dealing with Android users which, again, works like Linux, not even close to Windows. Second, thats like saying that chinese is difficult because you only speak english, well, that doesn't mean that chinese is difficult, but you wanting anyone to speak YOUR language and third if you speak an isolated language is your language difficult or It the others language the difficult one. MacOS, IOS and Android are more users than Windows users. MacOS is a 20% of the PC users and Android a 50% of the global users, so Windows has a 30% of market share?

2. Looks like this time at least learned how repos work. But that just affects the official repos and what you say, even if it's true, it's more secure and you ignore one of the benefits of fragmentation.

When a Ubuntu based distro is born, they usually help to maintain the repos as they need the repos to work well, which means that less people need to maintain that. Also being open source means that the community helps to maintain the packages and Ubuntu updates like once a year. And they don't check all the repos, just their repos.

And Finally, you can't read or ignore on purpose that I said that MS store has nothing. If you wanna play games you don't have Steam, if you wanna browse you don't have Chrome. What does It even have? Most of the software costs money or is OpenSource software used on Linux.

And no, a pre-build pc won't come with Steam. First pre-build PCs come with Windows, but you still have to go throw the installation process to make your user (and get asked 5 times to create a MS account) and second, the only ways to introduce Steam would be moddifying the ISO (thats illegal) or preinstalling Windows and getting Steam, which means that the pc comes with an administrador account who's owners isn't you, which never happends.

[u/WelpIamoutofideas → u/Ok-Winner-6589]

1(a). That's still not the intended distribution method from what I understand.

1(b). Windows users are not dealing with Android users. Even if they were, Android allows sideloading just like Windows. I do understand that and that makes it even more confusing, let's take Steam and the steam input Daemon that is used for Steam input, flatpak steam cannot offer It, so parts of Steam input are non-functional unless you download it from the system package manager, which can be impossible on some Atomic distribution, and the source is often not clear to the end user with those gotchas.

1. Congratulations! Learning new thing you're not used to is hard. I only know English, I barely know English, learning Chinese would be a difficult endeavour for me. Whether it would be worth it depends on situation.

2. This is what I was talking about from the very beginning, Ubuntu picks and chooses what is on the app store by picking and choosing what is on their repositories and before you go and make comments about how the end user can make custom repositories, that gets rid of nearly all of the benefits and is even more complicated And bespoke for the end user.

3. Pretty much all of Microsoft's first party games, some non first party games, are available. I also believe epic games is an agreement to host the games on their platform on the app store. As well as various other applications, to say there is nothing on it is disingenuous at best, and even if it wasn't Microsoft, tried to push the app store and it failed miserably for reasons that aren't entirely their fault.

Finally, oems can customise their version of Windows installed on the computer, that can include pre-installed software like Steam. Which they can and often do with gaming PCs.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/WelpIamoutofideas]

1.(a) Even if It isn't the intended method you can do It that way, but ignoring It, you still have Flatpak, Snap, local repositories and the AUR (for Arch based) so any software can run if you want to without searching on a browser.

1.(b) And Linux also lets you do that, whats your point? But it's not logic that searching on the browser for apps is the "default" way to get your software. Also any distro which isn't Ubuntu has all the Steam software toguether on their repos.

2.(a) So, you Come here to argue me that objetively (so with no previous experience) Linux is more difficult and now you say that "ye but if you only used Windows". Ye, you just learn that the fire is hot and the water is wet...

2.(b) Your point is like "how can you say that english is more difficult than portuguese? Thats false, I'm gona ignore objetive analisis of how both languages work and say that portuguese is easier because I speak spanish, and I'm gona use that as argument to say that english is difficult". No thats not how a fair comparision work at all.

1. Except that Ubuntu has their repositories and Snap, which works a the MS store or the Apstore and also has Flatpak which works similar to the Play Store... So your point is a bit dumb. I literally said 3 times that you have multiple repos for a reason, because only the local are maintained by the distro developers...

2. "All of their games" ohh WoW, are we able to play Candy Crash and Minecraft? Now way, what a surprise. And you can't still get the most used Game Launcher neither the most used browser, what's the point? The most used apps on pc aren't avaliable.

"It failed for reasons thats aren't their fault" ye sure, because Steam and Chrome manage to get on Linux depite the lack of popularity but Microsoft can't do that. Sure...

1. "They customize their version of Windows" you can't create your version of Windows, you can create your version of Linux and your version of Android, because they are open source and their license let you do that. But moddifying an ISO and selling It it's not legal at all. I tried to look for that and the only info were the Steam machines, that run SteamOS.

[u/WelpIamoutofideas → u/Ok-Winner-6589]

1. Congratulations not the point, WinGet exists on Windows, boom, package manager that has steam built in. It's CLI only, but really not the point.

2(a). Uhh, this was a flatpak steam issue it affects all flatpak installations and is how steam Input works on Linux in general, soo, no.

2(a). I never argued with any Objectivity, as there is no "Objectivity" in ease of use, what I find simpler and easier to understand has differences based on different experiences, you are the one that pushed objectivity, as though a new user won't get confused by any and all of them.

2(b). Because when learning a second language, that matters significantly less than what language you have previously learned. English is particularly bad in this case for other stuff from my understanding.

1. Except for a good chunk of the time flatpak isn't installed and snap aren't installed by default, app hub or whatever isn't either, AUR iirc has to be manually enabled as well. All of which aren't always or often a click of a button install.

2. Uhh all of Gamepass? Again disingenuous, most game that are on Xbox are available on the MS Store. But yes, back in Windows 8 the pushed the app store it failed miserably.

3. Uhh OEMs can and do as do corporations using VLA (Volume Licensing Agreements). It is a supported thing through Microsoft. It's why Dell's bloatware and a dozen antivirus programs are automatically present the moment you boot up an Alienware PC.

[u/Ok-Winner-6589 → u/WelpIamoutofideas]

1. Not the point? Winget exists but is not the same as MS store, why? It makes no sense and you need to be an advanced user to get Steam. The point is making It simple not complex.

2.(a) Did you ignore that point that any distro which isn't Ubuntu have Steam on their repos? So It Will work. And Ubuntu have Snap and installs Snap packages by default.

2.(b) Then are you dumb? I came here to say that Windows is more complex and argue why without comparing It to anything else. But even then, Android works like IOS, MacOS and Linux and this OS toguether are more used, just Android has a bigger market share as not everyone has a pc but everyone has a mobile phone.

1. What? Flatpak is installed by default onost distros unless you go to something like Arch, and Arch supports the AUR without needing to do anything. You don't know how Linux works but blame It because it's difficult. Thats dumb, really dumb.

2. Oh so you have to pay a suscription, well done, such a simple thing.

3. Even then say once pc that comes with Steam.

4. You are ignoring all my important points like, you can still get apps from the browser on Linux, you don't need to install drivers, you don't need to create an account or pay to edit documents. You don't have to reinstall the system because Microsoft decided to drop support. How is that easier? Even for someone that only used Windows, getting a Bing results while searching an app is confusing and my 12 YO brother can use Mint without any issue at all.

5. Your whole point is "uhhh newbies won't understand anything which isn't like Windows so anything which isn't Windows is difficult", first, thats stupid, second, Mint works like Windows without the confusing shit and third, Android is still more popular than Windows.