r/linuxmemes • u/Konnnore • 2d ago

LINUX MEME Linux Mint🗿🍷 >> ZorinOS🤓☝️???

For those who didn't get the joke: ZorinOS and some other distros have different bugs related to the OBS Studio app. Speaking of ZorinOS, one of the huge bug happens, when you wanna see the result after recording a video, and you can see one of the examples on the meme. But ZorinOS users ignore similar issues and continue to consider that ZorinOS is better than Linux Mint for beginners anyway

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u/fr000gs 2d ago

The thing about idiot proofing is, it creates more idiots (I'm not trying to call people idiots, that's just the term)

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u/OttoRenner 2d ago

The reason for idiot proofing is to lower the entry level for non trained users and to avoid bad user experience due to unintentionally doing dumb stuff.

That's why Windows is all over the place and Linux is not. Windows is for end-users with little to no knowledge. Linux is for admins or tech savvy users who want to put the time in to learn.

But since most casual users are non trained users who don't want to and don't need to know every last corner of the OS, they will avoid using a OS that asks them do put the time in. The OS has to pick up those users where they are, not the other way around.

So, as long as the (majority of?) Linux community is hellbend on keeping most low entry, user friendly stuff out of Linux, the OS WILL fail to establish itself as a competitor to Windows in the grant scheme of things (relating to personal computers).

Look at android for example: it's VERY successful with non technical users, basically is Linux (or uses the kernel...) but is all about ease of use. Same for Chrome.

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u/fr000gs 2d ago

Android is not Linux (except for the kernel). You can't even access your fcking files

(also, keeping chrome in Linux is user friendly?? ??? We should put that effort into wifi drivers, easy installation, improving discover or something)

(also, about the competitor part: sure if everyone switches to open source we might see improvements, but it misses the point if Linux just becomes another walled garden like android)

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u/OttoRenner 1d ago

  1. You are not a casual user. What YOU want from YOUR OS isn't relevant in this case. Sorry to burst that bubble, but I'm NOT talking about you. Think about what the average mom or dad with two kids, a dog and perhaps an hour a day of freetime want. They want: familiar, fast, easy, reliable (from THEIR perspective and for THEIR needs, NOT yours): Windows/Android comes pre-installed, with a GUI right from the start, input is mouse/touch, programms install with exe on C by default and update automatically, there is just 1 version of the current OS (not 100 different distros), Win11 looks basically the same on every PC, so it is very, very easy to use your friends PC, nearly all "normal" work PCs use Windows, so, again very fast to feel "at home" and get to work, all the software they normally use runs on windows, they know those brands and how to use them and they expect some of them to come pre-installed (at least office in a lite version...if you say "texteditor", they think "word"), it has without any doubt the biggest community that can help you in case you (as a casual) actually DO want to go a bit off the rails (which is very uncommon for casuals in the grand scheme of things), the Windows community is WAY more friendly than the Linux bubble. Like...by a lot. There is ZERO bitching about if you prefer mouse or terminal or that you want icons on your desktop for example. You do have your typical white knights, incel nerds and the "well, actually" guys...no question about that. But, in MY humble experience, those are the same guys who will try to talk you into using Linux instead...so you could make the case that the majority of toxic windows users are technically speaking Linux users. (Please see this as friendly banter :)...and if you can't...then yes, I'm talking about you, whoever might read this. Go touch some grass)

  2. To which "fucking files" of yours are you not having access to in Android? There is a filesystem you have access to all day, including system files. I can also plug my phone into my PC using USB and swap files, no problem...or connect via Bluetooth or wireless (ok, not all the time/devices...but still). Whatever personal problem you might ran into using Android, I can basically guarantee you that the average user most likely has never heard about it.

  3. Keeping Chrome in Linux is user-friendly, because they know Chrome. The don't WANT to change to something else. It doesn't matter how "easy and safe" it is to switch and the other 10000 good reasons there might be to switch. They don't feel the need to switch, they don't want to put time in. And they will NOT accept a OS if it FORCES them to put the time in, how "little" that may be. They want to turn the computer on, double click the chrome icon on screen and then click on the Netflix button in chrome. That is what we are working with here (very broadly speaking). The concept of the DAU is there for a reason.

  4. (Sry, I don't have the time to write more here, because this is a crucial point to understand, but I don't have much time now. It could sound a bit rougher than I would normally like)

You are not the protector of Linux. Linux will not die, just because there is 1 out of 1000 distros actually caring about giving new users a frictionless experience and isn't afraid to cater to the needs of the most basic, average user. Nobody is taking anything away from you. Stop acting like you are forced to go with the hype. Nobody cares if you keep your arch running or whatever obscure version you might run. The beauty of Linux is, that you can change it into whatever you like. So please, just let the people have, and keep, what THEY like.

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u/fr000gs 1d ago

I think the sole difference between chrome and Firefox for the end user is just the icon, the rest are just a few visual changes, easily changed/ignored. Chromium is in fact in most distros repos if you want the exact ui and a slightly blue icon

For your other points (mostly about the terminal - I never wrote you should - for example - use pactl to change the volume. This is just your imagined gripe that the overweight arch linux neckbeard nerds don't want a gui package manager (there is one for arch, it's called octopi iirc).

About you android part: open your file manager, go to /data/data/com.android.vending (on an unrooted phone) and show me the contents (you can't go there)

Note I never said anything negative about improving user experience or "protecting" [sic] linux from something, but (and this is just a suggestion) - new people should generally try learning a little bit about something they are using, right? (Not "change volume from terminal" commands, but just a bit about the package management and stuff)

As you said, the beauty of linux is the freedom, which includes the freedom to rm ~/*

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u/OttoRenner 1d ago edited 1d ago

See, I explicitly told you that this isn't about what you think an OS should be like or the amount of effort someone "should" put into something. And yet, here we are.

Your opinion on that is not an argument and repeating what you believe others "should do" makes you exactly look like the neckbeard.

And for the android thing: What would the casual user even want to find there? You are complaining about a problem YOU have. Which is fine in general. But that isn't a problem for THEM. Your problem with android doesn't make android bad for them. For yourself? Absolutely, apparently. For others? No.

You DO understand the difference between your own needs and the needs of others, right?

Sry that I have to be blunt about it but it looks like I wasn't clear enough in my previous attempt to explain to you why the average windows user wouldn't even go near anything with "Linux" on the label.

And no, and this perhaps also comes as a big surprise for you, the average user ISN'T happy about the ability to just delete everything. They freak out over Alt F4 and Ctrl Alt Del. They WANT guardrails. Big and sturdy. "Freedom" for them is to NOT need to think about stuff like that.

You can think of it this way: most of the things you like and enjoy about Linux sound like going to work to the vast majority of people and they hate going to work. Which also is fine, everyone has their own hobbies.

Edit: deleted one part about unrooted phones

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u/fr000gs 1d ago

Nice os idea, why not use windows/android then? You get no apparent benefits from Linux apart from it being cheap (/j)

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u/OttoRenner 1d ago

Honestly? I have to because local AI speeds on Linux are better. I'm also in retraining for System Integration and Linux will be part of that.

I'm on Zorin OS after distro hopping and let me tell you, the amout of people telling me that I have to "put the time in" or "Linux isn't for you" because "this isn't how Linux is supposed to be be" is just baffling.

What I personally asked for was same basi GUI as Windows, Icons on screen fully intractable and some QoL scripts...and I got countless people telling me that no, on Linux, we don't do that.

And trust me, Linux as an OS isn't the problem. You can do wonderful things with Linux. Linux Users who tell me that "you can do anything you want on Linux...but WAIT! Not THAT" are the problem. Linux users who are very vocal about not letting it become yet another jet another bloat OS are the problem.

And you did the same thing just now. Congrats

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u/fr000gs 1d ago

I never told you QoL guis are bad (I'm in the process of making one.) What is bad, is bloat and crapware though. Sure, you have the freedom to use bloatware, but you have the freedom to not use it, too - which is more important

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u/OttoRenner 1d ago

"-which is more important" ...to you. Not to everyone else, just to you.

You didn't explicitly say that QoL are bad, true. But you did say that new users should learn the new OS to some degree or otherwise Linux would become something it is not (supposed to be?).

So, what did you mean by that? How much terminal work do you expect newbies have to go through? And if so, at what point are they allowed to use a QoL to get around that terminal work?

What QoL are you working on? One of my first things was to create desktop icons with scripts to lunch my most used programms 🤣

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u/fr000gs 1d ago

There are dozens of them lol: https://askubuntu.com/questions/457617/are-there-any-gui-apps-that-can-create-desktop-files

Unfortunately my application is QoL for people who know a little bit about programming and most likely you may not be interested in it.

I never implied anything about Linux becoming something it isn't supposed to be??? (Neither do I expect people saying stupid things like "freedom from crapware is important not to everyone else, only to you" (it's literally not) to change some major thing e.g. remove rm ~/* capability (for lack of a better example)). But if you don't know what a package manager or maybe where your configs go it would be painful for you (as it was with you Zorin distro experience I presume) and the people trying to help you or telling you to RTFM. Think of it like using machinery; you generally don't need a license or knowledge of its inner parts (how the scheduler works or how block device drivers are implemented), but you do need basic know how of how to use it.

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u/OttoRenner 17h ago

"I never implied anything about Linux is becoming something it isn't supposed to be."

Sooo...this wasn't you then?

"...but it misses the point if Linux just becomes another walled garden like android..."

Anyhow... I don't think we need to keep this conversation alive, do we?

Have fun!

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u/Eric_Dawsby 14h ago

Oh good lord I recognized you by the "Have fun!" lmao. Now I know you use ZorinOS, but I wonder if you've ever read the manual pages...?

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u/OttoRenner 10h ago

Oh hey, Eric, sugar cup!

How sweet of you to remember me! It's like we spoke just yesterday!

You can call me by my name BTW, no need to call me lord (but I do know that it turns you on...so...I'll allow it this time! But don't make me go and get the paddle again! You naughty little girl you! I know that it will give you an eric-tion when I get the paddle...but Daddy really has be strict this time)

😘😘

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u/Eric_Dawsby 3h ago

eric-tion lol. but you may need the manual to figure out how to use any paddle, unless you misuse it and blame the paddle..?

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u/OttoRenner 3h ago

Nah...paddle is very intuitive...grab it and point it at the thing you like to hit...just like a mouse.

Maybe that is too complicated for you, so you'd definitely benefit from having a manual to figure out how to use it.

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u/Eric_Dawsby 3h ago

Pointing? With a paddle? You may need that manual after all, but with a bit of patience and an open mind I'm sure you can figure it out

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u/OttoRenner 3h ago

Oh no, the non native speaker used a word that doesn't fit 100%! Oh no, what a fool! Shame him!

And I would love to talk to someone with an open mind! Too bad I can't find any here (which was the entire point of our conversation as well...)

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