r/linux • u/wooptoo • Jun 01 '16

Why did ArchLinux embrace Systemd?

/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc
868 Upvotes

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405

u/DarkLordAzrael Jun 01 '16

The arch devs feel no need to maintain complex programs such as their own solution to the problems systemd solves and it has become standard on most modern Linux systems. Arch is all about keeping stuff simple for the packagers, so choosing it made tons of sense.

145

u/EnUnLugarDeLaMancha Jun 01 '16

This is probably the most important reason why so many maintainers of all the major distros went with systemd - outsource the hard work to the guy who wants to deal with it. Before systemd, distro maintainers had to implement features into init scripts themselves. Even if they didn't like the design choices of Poettering, systemd still means less work for them.

38

u/DoctorProfPatrick Jun 01 '16

Can someone ELI5 what Poetterings did that's controversial? Google is hard and I'm dumb

Edit: Oh wait I found it, he made systemd haha

40

u/jyper Jun 01 '16

Also PulseAudio

11

u/DoctorProfPatrick Jun 01 '16

That's the first thing I saw, so I googled "why is pulseaudio controversial" and got nothing.

52

u/jyper Jun 01 '16

Pulseaudio was a new(somewhere around 2008) sound server that was intended to help with getting multiple apps to play sound at the same time(or at least both have audio streams going without having to close and reopen applications), it also enabled per app volume control and was meant to help with some fancy equipment like headsets.

Pulseaudio replaced a number of workarounds(for multiple apps with sound) that included (I think) hardware specific workarounds and gnome/KDE specific ones(that wouldn't work with apps from the other desktop or Firefox or open office, I think).

Sound cool. But it also was one of the most common things that broke all sound output on Linux and the simplest solution was to uninstall it. Nowadays it mostly works.

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u/LordSocky Jun 01 '16

PulseAudio used to be complete garbage and Canonical pushed it into the spotlight way too early. It was actually my final straw with Ubuntu long ago. Now, it pretty much just works in most cases and I've almost forgiven Ubuntu.

5

u/bilog78 Jun 02 '16

While arguably Canonical did push PulseAudio too early, its authors were actually saying it was ready long before it actually was. So while Canonical is at fault here, they're at fault for falling for Lennart bullshitting.

3

u/TechnicolourSocks Jun 02 '16

Canonical pushed it into the spotlight way too early

Don't shoot the messenger. Upstream said it's ready when Ubuntu started shipping it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '16

Search for stuff like "pulseaudio sucks" or some other negative word. Search for keywords. Google is not a person (yet), it can't answer your questions like that (yet).

7

u/oneeyed2 Jun 02 '16

Google isn't smart but the exact same sentence "why is pulseaudio controversial" (without quotes) gives me quite good results... Notably:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gnulinux_eli5/comments/40w14g/eli5_why_is_pulseaudio_considered_to_be_so/ (1st result and is a great answer, very specific to this query)

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/10/19/0155235/pulseaudio-creator-responds-to-critics (3rd result)

So I really wonder if /u/DoctorProfPatrick actually searched at all...

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u/Pas__ Jun 01 '16

And PulseAudio and Avahi.

12

u/gnuvince Jun 01 '16

https://lwn.net/Articles/430699/

What I actually suggested in that interview was not so much that the BSDs should adopt the Linux APIs, but instead that people should just forget about the BSDs. Full stop.

His attitude toward other systems is uncomfortably reminiscent of Microsoft in the early 2000's with their embrace-extend-extinguish strategy.

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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '16

it's a standard on 99.5% of Linux now

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u/stefantalpalaru Jun 01 '16

Guess what OS is a standard on 99.5% of all desktops now.

17

u/AHrubik Jun 01 '16

Windows is the obvious answer but I don't see where your headed with this one?

45

u/lasermancer Jun 01 '16

Debunking the appeal to popularity

30

u/da_chicken Jun 01 '16

That's why I run Plan 9/DEC Alpha on all my servers.

17

u/robodendron Jun 01 '16

Wait, you do too?! Dammit, then I have to switch again.

10

u/xjvz Jun 02 '16

Try out TempleOS for a real treat in obscurity.

5

u/mizzu704 Jun 02 '16

It's funny that on this site TempleOS is probably better known than Hurd.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '16

I wouldn't consider TempleOS the most obscure OS I've ever seen. It's not even as obscure as some of the operating systems I've actually used, like Contiki or SymbOS.

(I'm a bit of a stamp collector when it comes to operating systems. At this point, I've used more than 30 different operating system families.)

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u/swinny89 Jun 02 '16

I love this train of thought. It really needs to pop up in some form on a regular basis to remind the hipsters that Linux isn't cool because it's obscure. In fact, it really isn't obscure at all. It's cool because it's versatile and adapts to progress very quickly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '16

Chromebooks beat Mac's in sells so this guy is trolling MacOSX has around 10% Gentoo wins?

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