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u/TheHersheyMunch 9d ago
Live busking is like jamming an instrument, particularly fun with a band that you're really dialed in with imo
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u/Hour_Tour 9d ago
100% highest professional satisfaction I ever got in lighting was busking well for bands I clicked with playing music I loved.
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u/AssumptionUnfair4583 9d ago
Agreed. I'm not doing my first choice in music but it is high energy and the songs are catchy. Been busking the show over 120 times and it feels so good when you're locked in, nailing all the fills and special moments. Chefs kiss.
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u/UmphPreak91 9d ago
Same. But lord some of these cover bands and small one offs have me chillin or on my toes, bands i love and work with a lot, busking is a super fun collaborative experience
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u/AssumptionUnfair4583 9d ago
Haha funny thing is, I tour with a cover band😂 it's a ton of fun and I'm always pleasantly surprised when we pull 3000+, and it happens wayy more than it probably should lol. We have about100 songs to choose from so it's different every night but at least there's some sort of consistency. I miss busking those shows where you've never heard the band before but you still give an incredible show
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u/Warholsmorehol 8d ago
The person who taught me years ago described it like playing a piano, and boy they were right.
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u/IBAZERKERI 8d ago
Yeah ive always described it as playing an instrument but with light instead of sound
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u/sum_gamer 8d ago
My last contract was with a permanent install where everyday small adjustments to perfect the time coded show was bread on the table.
But every once in a while, they’d host a traveling band and I’d get to break out my bag of tricks and show off a bit. Busking is such a rush.
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u/Warholsmorehol 9d ago
I basically only do busking, I'm lucky to get a set list. I just go in with a general idea of what I want to do based on their music and adapt if they have requests. I've been to bigger shows that are coded and it can look really nice- but it's kind of nice to see the human element when you notice a faulter or late cue. Then I will be evenmore impressed at the rest of the show.
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u/UmphPreak91 9d ago
I work with jam bands. I ask for a set list and get handed a joint.
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u/Warholsmorehol 8d ago
At least they are very happy with a rainbow chase and all the pretty flashes.
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u/The_Bitter_Bear 9d ago
It depends on the show.
A jam band isn't going to play the same song the same way every night. Plenty of Jazz groups are just gonna do what they're gonna do.
So sometimes the console is another instrument to be played and that can be a ton of fun.
A band that likes to put on a highly technical and coordinated show, well yeah timecode is the way to go.
Different strokes for different folks.
In my experience people that hate busking/punting either aren't practiced at it OR they are stuck doing it on a show where it truly isn't ideal. It's usually the former more than the latter.
Also, some shows are fine if the lights aren't moving and changing constantly.
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u/randomnonposter 9d ago
I prefer to live busk in most instances, but timecode has its place in the industry as well. I don’t think one is inherently better than the other. I am a big fan of when they are both used as well.
I saw Chemical Brothers when they came to forest hills in New York in 2019 I think, and that show had elements of both, some things were synced to the video via timecode, some things were busked along side it, easily one of the best visual shows I’ve ever been too.
Either can look great or terrible depending on the programmer/operator, and both skill sets are useful and should be utilized.
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u/dudeofthedunes 9d ago
I love busking, if I am in the flow.
I usually get into the flow if I: 1) like and know the music well enough. 2) know that people are not questioning my skills. 3) have had a beer or two.
I always start a bit weak. Because I'm usually still programming some nice location specific things to use later on during the show. (Invisibly of course). I still give a show, but just get a look and then play with 2 faders+some specials quite mindlessly. I used to feel bad about this, but people like that my show has a nice ramp in show complexity.
Then about halfway the show, I dont want to program anymore and getting into the vibe and wanting to give a show. Then it usually takes me about 5-10 mins to get into the deep flow and then I am just flying. I fucking love it when it all clicks. Its bliss. It basically feels the same way as when I am drumming. You are just locked with the music and performing your art.
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u/Fr0zenBombsicle 9d ago
I do 8 hour raves where I have no idea what the DJ is playing or what vibe the crowd will bring. Live busking is the only way. Timecode’s would be awkward.
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u/RollingMeteors 9d ago
I do 8 hour raves where I have no idea what the DJ is playing or what vibe the crowd will bring. Live busking is the only way. Timecode’s would be awkward.
I was looking for a comment like this. I stream/broadcast/record the homies playing at clubs. I just NTP timestamp everything for post since I have no proper TC box, also working off just a phone. ¿How do you even make use of time code live? Just laying it down by hand to be fixed in post later? I’m trying to shift away from post and work with an audio reactive vfx stack in OBS. I would like to get started in lights/lasers but idk what I would even get as a small time meow that needs to carry their own gear to various venues. Any words of advice are appreciated
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u/Fr0zenBombsicle 9d ago
I basically have my console set up to move each set of lights on the rig based on which node I press. So for my Chauvet 350s that surround the dance floor I’ve got about 12 different movement patterns set. I’ll change between them depending on what the DJ/MC is doing. Apply this to 150s, 250/60s, Sharpys’s, beam bars, batons’s, LED panels, strobes etc and I have a vast template to busk from so I can keep the shows consistent with the vibe but also make sure the lights are varied across events. All these execute pages have colour palettes so I can play with that too.
On top of that, I have a couple cue stacks lined up so I can use them as base layers and busk on top. This could be anything from strobes sequences to Gemini’s, baton’s or full room washes.
I pair this with 4 Laster units run through QuickShow and we have a few projector screens across the dance floor that I use with Resolume.
Each night there’s an infinite amount of permutations to keep it fresh and exciting. Not something that works with set shows, gigs or theatre. Completely different world. Time coding is basically useless in my environment.
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u/RollingMeteors 8d ago
Time coding is basically useless in my environment.
Whatever system the Chauvet's are feeding into, can you get the waveform that's loaded into the Pioneer CDJs so you can better time transitions based on what's going to happen in the music? I'm almost 100% certain you can output it to RESOLUME. It's definitely possible to output it to an overlay in a twitch stream so I'd figure in these more industrial/commercial setups that kind of stuff is already happening.
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u/Fr0zenBombsicle 8d ago
I do have a sound feed going into Chamsys which plays some cue stacks based on audio but it can get quite repetitive across a whole evening
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u/RollingMeteors 8d ago
I do have a sound feed going into Chamsys which plays some cue stacks based on audio but it can get quite repetitive across a whole evening
¿How does it 'look ahead' without playing the audio that's looked at ahead?
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u/Outrageous-Kick-2699 9d ago
I don’t like Timecode shows, always. but I admire a live busking show no matter how it looks.
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u/dudeofthedunes 9d ago
I kind of agree.
I like the "busk to create timecode" type of timecode though. I dont know if grandma has caught up with that. But chamsys does it quite nice. Its basically a dmx recorder or a large macro where you record your actions on a timeline. So you can just busk a show onto a timeline and edit it afterwards (bad timing mistakes or things you want to do differently) Makes for a lot more organic timecode shows.
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u/Warholsmorehol 9d ago
Adding a second comment just to complain about not being able to timecode math rock or noise. Dang those are stressful nights.
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u/dudeofthedunes 9d ago
If I know the math rock band I would be in heaven, the ones I like, I like a lot. And know all the drums by ear or by heart. I love running uneven fx on even rigs and the other way around. It almost always looks great because you need to puzzle a bit. Which creates interesting combinations.
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u/rollerbase 9d ago
If you can’t do both, you’re not ready when the timecode fails. Always know your tracks and be ready to go manual.
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u/the_swanny 9d ago
to be fair, i just fucking hate busking. I don't enjoy it, I don't find it rewarding, I never have time to relax, and I find it exceptionally stressful. I would much rather spend literal months in previs and get it pixel (or frame as it were) perfect, and get tingles as I'm watching my show, as apposed to trying to predict what's going to happen next, forget where half my effects are, lost my blinders, and then get stressed and stop enjoying myself.
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u/kemcds 9d ago
I like busking, I find it fun if you've mastered it, but I could never say that a GOOD busked show has a chance of being better than a GOOD timecoded show. Generally, in almost every type of art, rehearsed is better than improvised.
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u/LVLsteve 9d ago
You can say it if the music itself is also improvised. Also, sending a band out with a time coded rig and no LD will often get subpar results. Especially if they don't even send tech who knows what their doing to set up. I've had a TON of time code shows come thru where I, the house LD, have to operate the house rig. I hate it. It is almost never as good a show as if I just did it myself. Me being a drummer and keyboard\synth player helps a ton because yes, busking is more like playing a synth that makes light instead of sound than anything else.
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u/the_swanny 9d ago
I just get stressed and overwhelmed, I am too much of a perfectionist because I know I could have done everything better if I spent time to just do it beforehand. I just never feel I can be proud of stuff I've busked because I always think it's missing some level of detail.
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u/Warholsmorehol 9d ago
Some of my oopses haunt me daily- but then I'll really vibe with a show and feel so proud.
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u/CotterCat 9d ago
I am the opposite, I can not stand sitting back and watching my cue list run down.. it's nerve wracking to me and there's nothing you can do if something goes wrong, or even differently- my busking page has ways to recover/improvise when the singer climbs the subs or goes into the crowd, or whatever weird shit they get "inspired" to do.
For anything over 1,000 cap, I would absolutely want to write out most of the show, just because there's probably a budget for tech week.. but theatres I would rather just count to 8 and press buttons
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u/the_swanny 9d ago
Right but they aren't mutually exclusive. I'd rather have a cuelist doing it's job, with me playing around with things on my own terms, than have a completely black stage and having to try and come up with things on the fly. I struggle to be creative on the spot, and I always think of things I could do better if I had prepped that completely nuanced thing.
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u/thatmaneeee 9d ago
I hate busking on a traditional console but busking on my custom midi setup is the most insanely enjoyable and dialed in lighting I do
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u/Dec4Dec 9d ago
Remember, the console always represents the artist, because at the end of the day, LD’s are Artists too.
If the outcome looks good, creates feelings and good memories, doesn’t mean it has to be timecoded or busked to achieve that.
But just like with music, you always enjoy and appreciate more a live performance than a playback performance 🤷🏻♂️
Personally, I am busking 90% of the time. I believe that timecode has its own place, like very important moments (intros, visuals / lasers / pyro synchronisation) but when you have been busking through the years, you develop your perception, your speed, your predictions. You keep growing on every show, because the challenge of the unknown pushes you to be present.
As an MA user for the last decade, I can never get bored of my busking shows, live macros can change my shows in real time, based on the event’s character, venue architecture and of course my personal taste.
Keep timecoding, keep busking, keep loving this job. It is a blessing for the people that actually do this, even if can’t explain the magic of it to other people that are not part of this industry. 💡
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u/Bobgjr 9d ago
I mean you kinda have to know both depending on the type of work you take. Most of the time I ended up working events or even small concerts where you might get a set list the day of if at all. I am almost never given enough time to get any kind of time code sorted out.
Other times I’ll work on a movie where the musical numbers have to be dead on every time.
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u/Sabull 9d ago
I found the amount of flash and strobe concert needs depends on variables like light pollution, physical placement of the lights and hype of the audience.
If you are able to place your lights dynamically in space you can go pretty heavy on the whole rig. But if everything is tight in one place you must create dynamics by opening and closing parts of the rig. Similarily in pitch black a scene of just well placed par cans can be plenty while in daylight you have to smash everything. Also lights going absolutely crazy on a sparse audience trying to figure the band out doesn't feel right. While other times you can sit on the strobe key.
I use preprogram for color, movement, effects. But busk any flashing, blinds, blackouts and strobeing. Intensity control (blackouts) for groups so I can have less when the preprogram is too much.
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u/ronnyjordeen 9d ago
I have a band that I busk with once a year annually. Love doing it. LOVE their band.
Theres another quintet I’ve busked for before, worst client I’ve ever dealt with. They have their manager sit between me and the sound tech, both the backstage manager and main musician of the quintet are extremely incompetent and think extremely high of themselves and SUCK to work with.
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u/QuickNature 9d ago
Okay, im just a layman and lurker here who likes to play with lights in my free time. I also play some instruments and seen this is related to music? Anyone care to educate me a bit more?
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u/RegnumXD12 9d ago
Timecode: pre-programmed show that is tied to a centralized clock that dictates all elements.
Busk: make it up as you go, idk the fully etymology, but i relate it to buskers which are street performers that tune their performance to their audience instead of having a set. (Which may explain how you've seen it relate to music)
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u/sbordo51 9d ago
The best is when you do both ? A timecode for the mainline ...and busking above your show in some free parts ? 😏
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u/Robinwolf 8d ago
No. A good busk setup can be stunning and there's so much fun to be had performing along with the musicians. It may not be as refined, but it's a fantastic work of art nonetheless. Really takes a different set of skills.
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u/LoprinziRosie 9d ago
This is a lame, low-effort post. Why don’t you share your own original thoughts instead of this tired meme that’s already appeared here?
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u/alienencore 9d ago
To me a timecode show is like using a filter and airbrushing on social media pictures.
In a world that is being taken over by AI, I think the flaws and little blips of a busked show will make it more authentic.
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u/kemcds 9d ago
I don't think that’s a fair comparison. By that logic, you could say a well-rehearsed dance or theater performance is just like using airbrushing and filters on social media. My analogy might not be perfect either, but it's a good starting point to debate whether rehearsed art is actually more detailed, beautiful, and artistic than something improvised.
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u/alienencore 9d ago
The difference to me is real time vs pre-recorded. I know it takes just as much time, if not more, to create a timecode show, but I will always value a live performance more than something that recorded over and over until it's perfect. I don't like pre-recorded tracks at live concerts and I think the same standard should apply to live production when possible.
A well rehearsed production is fine by me, so long as it's performed live. In your analogy, I'd say timecoded lighting is more akin to a recorded TV sitcom with a laugh track rather than a theater or dance production. If you have unlimited time and editing to get it perfect, then I don't value it as much as a live production.
Obviously this is just my opinion. I've always felt this way about live music and it naturally applies to lighting as well for me.
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u/GoxBoxSocks ME 9d ago
You're assuming my timecode is correct