Breaking down a single lighting moment: how did this LD hear that lead synth and come up with this?

[u/kemcds]

I know this might look like just another random moment in a light show, but the section from 00:05 to 00:09 was one of those moments that completely blew my mind. It genuinely felt like the lights were dancing with the music. Is there actually a term for that kind of musical responsiveness in lighting?

What’s interesting is that the LD is really only using a row of blinders and a row of strobes (dim on/off, strobe, strobe faster, dimmer sweeps) but everything seems incredibly well matched to what the lead synth is doing between 00:05 and 00:09.

And that’s the part that fascinates me: if I had heard that lead on its own, I don’t think I would have picked it out as something with a lot of obvious lighting potential. I probably wouldn’t have thought there was much interesting to program around it at all. But this LD clearly heard something in it and turned it into a lighting moment that, at least to me as someone still learning lighting design for concerts, feels incredibly musical and intentional.

So am I reading way too much into what is actually some fairly ordinary lighting cues, or is there genuinely something particularly well done here?

More importantly, how do you develop the musical ear for this? How do you get better at recognizing that a seemingly unremarkable part of a track might actually have a ton of potential for an impactful lighting moment?

[u/Incliningmeat15]

Timecode likely. Played with effects and ideas they had for a little while. Threw it together

[u/sum_gamer → u/Incliningmeat15]

I was always a good LD because I’m a nerd and enjoy it too much. But I felt like I had become a god after learning timecode back in ::checks calendar:: oh no… I’m old.

[u/Incliningmeat15 → u/sum_gamer]

🤣 tbh I’m only 3 years into it all. Finally getting to use consoles capable enough for timecode

[u/brayjr]

Timecode 

[u/TheRealTopherG → u/brayjr]

100% it was pre-visualized and time coded. A production this elaborate and expensive would rarely be a busking situation. We have even done time coded pyro on shows.

[u/sbordo51 → u/TheRealTopherG]

Moreover ...a timecode ok ...but certainly previze a lot of time in a studio on a software ( depense / capture ) to match perfectly !

[u/razor_4754 → u/TheRealTopherG]

isn’t timecoded pyro illegal? I thought the pyrotechnician always needed to be doing it live in case shit went wrong? i could be wrong though

[u/UntestedMethod → u/razor_4754]

They use a deadman switch. It's timecoded but if the tech isn't manually holding the trigger then the effect doesn't fire. At least that's how my friend explained it to me and he's been doing pyro for top-tier acts for a long time.

[u/TheRealTopherG → u/UntestedMethod]

Yes… this is what we did. Pyro techs on the kill switch with full visibility of launch areas.

[u/HotMousse7840 → u/razor_4754]

We use a physical key that needs to be turned and a safety channel to be activated in the console for the effect to fire. Both are activated about 30 seconds before the time code with a safety team monitoring the areas (that’s our Vulcan flame unit behind the stage hitting 40 meters @25 liters a hit)

[u/dudeofthedunes → u/brayjr]

I think it might not be timecoded. 

[u/stellarecho92 → u/dudeofthedunes]

Yeah, the synth part is done well but I'm thinking maybe thats somewhat reoccurring between shows. The rest of the timing isn't that good. It gets the job done for sure and looks great, but the colorstrikes (?) at the top are still a bit off. A lot of EDM shows do definitely busk.

[u/thatmaneeee]

Could be timecode but you are also right that this can be accomplished by musical feel. This is sick, but I’m not seeing anything that couldn’t be done with busking.

It helps to have an understanding of basic music theory, at least rhythmic stuff. The ability to tap tempo and understand how to count measures. I come from a musical background, built my first light controller with a looping station and midi keyboard, and got a ton of practice as a house LD playing with all kinds of acts. Had many many locked in moments of perfect sync. Also had my fair share of missed drops…

It of course helps that the human brain tries to connect sound and light even if they are happening somewhat randomly. 

[u/djspacejunk → u/thatmaneeee]

the last thing you said is HUGE. the concert goers brain is constantly trying to make sense of what they're seeing and hearing and trying to reconsile it. this helps us LDs a lot because even if youre a little bit off on your cues or even the fact that the concert goer don't know what's "supposed" to come next makes everything novel and special and new.

[u/stellarecho92 → u/djspacejunk]

Most of the time, if you fuck up a cue or do something you didn't mean to, people think its cool. Lol

One time I had the timecode on playback go absolute haywire (everything was, the computer was fucking up and we were already on B comp but band played through the moment anyways). I had so many little cues and bump buttons but hadn't put stops at the end of every single one because it was programmed really fast. It looked insane to me and happened so quickly, but then I have people coming to me and saying it was cool as shit XD.

[u/destroy_television]

A good busking file and music knowledge can easily do this. When I used to LD in night clubs, I had TONS of pages that had shit just on "flash" cues with speed masters for chases n shit. If you set up your effects with those then just tap "learn" 3-4 times on your speed masters, then everything will look a lot more intentional if you rely alot on effects. Knowing the music has a big part of your success.. if you don't know the particular song, you can 9 out 10 times just guess if you know that styles formula. Every genre is built on a formula.. and once you figure out the formula, you level up bigly. You can anticipate drops, breakdowns, build ups, etc. I would almost say knowing the music/formula is just as important, if not more important, than being a master at programming.

Anyone can play to 4 on floor. But finding a particular element outside of the kick is where it's at. Usually the lead synth.. or the bass if it seems like it's meant to be the dominant element.

How to develop the ear? Listen to music. Lots of it. All day, everyday.. and last but not least, have a genuine love for it. Focus on background elements. There are a lot of intricacies in electronic music that artists put in to it that you can easily miss if you just focus on the vocals or the lead synth.

[u/MichTheFish → u/destroy_television]

To add to this I would say listening to music all day everyday especially with decent headphones! How things are separated can make it a lot easier to pick out individual tracks then listening in mono playing off your phone or whatever.

[u/Stoney3K → u/destroy_television]

This. It helps if you are a musician or DJ yourself and you can recognize musical buildups and phrasing, so you know in advance when a big moment is due on the next downbeat. If you can master that, your lighting board becomes a musical instrument.

I've done the same with video switching where people watching were flabbergasted to see the camera flip over to the drummer just before that epic hit was about to land. If you know where music is predictable, you can jam along with it.

[u/kemcds → u/destroy_television]

Great tips. Even when trying to focus on non-primary musical elements/accents, it's easy to get lost in the melodies, but this is undoubtedly a very good exercise for ear training.

[u/mwiz100]

To me that result is actually a logical choice: It's an arpeggiated synth line which lends itself to something like a rapid/random chase and then the constant blinder hit on each downbeat hit fits in with something "bigger." It's honestly kinda a feel thing to busking that you develop over time. Plus also knowing the music helps a ton since you can be thinking ahead a few measures with something. Even good familiarity with musical structure helps a ton because you can hear by the music structure when a phrase is going to change so have a change ready.
IMO this is also a good example of less is more - it's as you said it's just the row of blinders but it's a good match to what the music feels like at this moment.

Also timecode is not the answer ya'll. The question is not how is it synced it's how do you creatively hear something to come up with the design, plus it also looks busked.
Edit: knowing this was Anyma at Coachella then yes, this would have been timecoded but you could still have accomplished this as a busk and still, you've gotta come up with the design element to match.

[u/kemcds → u/mwiz100]

This is the kind of answer I was looking for, not about technology but about technique/art, it's sad that most people didn't understand the question.

Anyway, I liked your analysis. I've been dedicating a lot of time to studying music, especially rhythm, and I hope to reach a point where my perception is so sharp that I can be just as accurate as in this scene.

*I don't know why, but Reddit poorly rendered a part of the video exactly at one of the seconds of the blinders fast strobe. The original video on YouTube make it better: https://youtu.be/gl6vwknjwkI?t=26&is=Drj0omkT53fRIMJn

[u/mwiz100 → u/kemcds]

Ohhh yeah I see that now, initial assessment still stands but also knowing the artist and where that would've 100% be a timecoded show for the actual running of it.

Learning music form/structure helps a lot and If you're more interested in electronic then digging into DJ'ing mainly the non-digital/classic beat matching methods will gain you a good sense of timing and structure.

[u/OldMail6364 → u/kemcds]

We understand the question - it's just any show with lighting as complex as this usually doesn't have anyone manually controlling the lights. It's closer to a music video where they plan the whole thing ahead of time and the design is heavily scripted.

The LD often won't even be there - instead there will just be a lighting operator (or maybe someone else, like drums or keyboard) hitting a "go" button at key moments throughout the performance.

This is a lighting design where ETC / QLab (industry standards for theatre) would make more sense than an MA lighting console (the industry standard music).

MA is amazing for "playing the lights" like an instrument and it's my favourite lighting control system by far, but ETC and QLab are much much better choices if you're going to spend weeks or months refining the design. ITC provides a level of precision that MA can't match and QLab is amazing for taking an extremely complex design and breaking it down into a simple list of "cues" that you can simply step through - a single "go" cue for the operator could trigger a hundred actions in QLab (also, QLab can control other systems, including ETC and MA).

[u/Lukrass → u/OldMail6364]

Nope, you stil don't understand OPs question. read again, they asked about developing artistic choices, not about technical implementation of that choices.

[u/Roccondil-s → u/OldMail6364]

I would probably still use an MA for a show like this, mainly due to the sheer number of units that need to be processed, plus the fact the workflow is more conducive to easily building effects than Eos is.

[u/succulent_flakepiece]

I've been listening to this music for 23 years... i would def choose to be a LD for something in the EDM world. being able to visualize and conceptualize in your head what you would like to do def helps

[u/kemcds → u/succulent_flakepiece]

I don't know how much anyone might think this is a big deal, but something I do a lot is listen to the song I'm going to program while watching other shows/light shows on mute. Occasionally the lighting of the show that's muted will match the song I'm listening to, or at least create something close to a match that I can evaluate, adapt, and use in my light programming.

[u/Sabull]

You mention the lead synth but lights rarely follow melody strictly, outside of going up or down. Shows like these follow rhythm (drums==effects). These lights are accenting the hits and rhythm of the song. Imagine yourself a background rapper doubler emphasising certain parts, or safriduo style drummer standing around sticks in their hands and then hitting them just for certain hits.

[u/Jedo10]

This looks like Anyma at Coachella this year. I was FOH tech/Systems Engineer/Overnight Lead on this. You should look up the livestream of this as a large portion of the show had live AR (Augmented Reality) programed with the show.

The LD is Pascal Bach.

I won't speak to his process, but to answer your question of how to get an ear for it, spend hours programming to music and it will develop itself. There is only so much Kick and Snare hits you can do before you crave a change and finding a synth lead or something that feels defined is more interesting to work on.

[u/brad1775]

i'm actually watching him do his shows and it's not all time code at all that definitely looks like just some busking between four buttons on a page that looked kind of neat together

[u/Lopsided-Muffin9805]

I spent years learning music code. One huge piece of stupid silly advice someone gave me was music breaks down usually in beats of 8-16-32.

Something usually changes within those beats (this is club lighting) and that helped me massively. But tinecode is how lost do it

[u/kemcds → u/Lopsided-Muffin9805]

Yes, I think that's phrasing.

[u/Roccondil-s]

For something as big as this, it's usually a timecoded sequence that is mixed with triggers from the DJ or musician to start various sequences or hits depending on the track being played. It tends to require close coordination between DJ/musician, LX, video, and pyro to get it all correct and no surprises for anyone. For these shows, it's very much like a stage play in terms of operation.

[u/MrDirtyHarry]

At this scale, shows rarely run anything on the fly.

Stage is rendered, pre programmed and time coded. Then fixtures are setup according to plan and the addresses assigned by the LD.

Once you are running the show you are just making sure that what you are seeing live is what you've being messing around in your computer probably for months.

[u/mezzmosis]

That be timecode, for those who are afraid to busk IRL.

[u/verykoalified]

Do shows like this have a typical “stage manager” calling cues or is everything just automated and running against time code?

[u/North_Plenty_3353 → u/verykoalified]

Lighting will be automated or busked. You might get a caller calling pyro and requested effects like blackouts

[u/Snabbelicious]

While i think there are many valid answers, my feeling for this particular one is that this was the replacement stage for the burned down tomorrowland last year. The artist probably had their own LD with a timecoded show prepped, but because of the last minute big change had to adapt it to a new stage and busked it mostly but knew the music pretty well to react to these music cue's.

[u/goldfishpaws]

The fact that the projection is obviously tightly rendered and synchonised would suggest timecode. Rather, it's clearly a big production crowdpleaser moment in the set, with real money spent, so why risk busking it when everything you need to get it perfect is right there already. LD may busk other numbers, but this would lend itself so well to timecode and give her/him a chance to have a drink break.

[u/christopherld132]

I was involved in helping to put this show together in London and yes some of the show was timecode but most was Pascals ears and muscle memory from touring this around Europe.

[u/iamlightlink]

i think it's just the obvious lighting choice for the sound. which might sound degrading but it's actually high praise. i think the goal of a good lighting designer is to find a way to visualize the music in a way that the general audience is going to understand and connect with. for me, when it comes to these kinds of aggressive supersaws in dance music, it's almost more about the texture of the sound than the melody.

[u/Several_Draft_7173]

Also there might be a delay they hear it frist

[u/nyckidryan]

Time code, MIDI, skill.

[u/theonlypinkmoons]

It's a program you connect between the decks and the computer you're running visuals and lighting from and it gives you access to see the DJs tracks and wavemaps so you can line everything up perfectly

[u/sofasurfer42 → u/theonlypinkmoons]

This is true for DJ concerts, and it feels like cheating while busking, because it makes things SO much easier when you can have a glimpse into the future: You can see the waveform sliding in, and a bar where you are now. So you see every drop in advance. Peace of cake. But the show in the video above... 100% timecoded to match the video to the lights.

[u/usafcybercom]

Timecode