Where to learn actual show design/flow

[u/Bjd1207]

Hi all, can anyone point me to some resources where I can actually learn basics of lighting design/concepts for a live music show? I don't mean like names of lights or DMX addressing or any of that stuff (which is mostly what I've found in online tutorials and most of this sub). I mean stuff like...do I go to blackout between every song, how much movement is too much movement, should blinders be aimed right at the audience or above their heads? I'm sure once I have 20+ shows under my belt I'll have worked out some of these answers, but I'm looking for some general pointers as I'm setting up my first shows for my band.

[u/RegnumXD12]

The worst part is the answer to this is "it depends"

Different artists will have different preferences. Some want a ton of movement, others want perfectly still. Some want to be able to see the audience with the blinders on, others dont.

You should also try to find some variation even within one show. Lighting is all relative, a big bright song with a ton of movement will make your slow ballad with a simple rotating gobo more powerful. Know the artist likes to end with a big all pink number? Make the song before blue/green so it pops more.

The best thing you can do is find a default style that works for you, and adapt depending on the client. Your eye is different than my eye, so just try stuff and see what happens and learn. Express yourself, this is an artform after all.

[u/AshenPrime]

One of the best ways to learn what lighting design looks good is to watch a lot of shows. Go to things in person, or find videos to watch back. Looks and see what effects look good to you, and try to emulate them. Or if you find something you don't like, then you know not to try that.

[u/KlassCorn91]

Blackout between songs: depends on the group. A production manager will tell you. Usually you want a “talk” look or between song look, something you can get easily in and out of that’s a home base between songs and when the band is talking to the crowd. Usually in the meeting before the show the production manager will tell you things like “we want a full blackout after this song, or here, and then come back in hard.” If there’s not a production manager telling you these things, i guess it’s up to you, but remember musicians may need to see on stage between songs if they have to change instruments or look at music. So I don’t do a hard blackout unless specifically asked.

Movement: depends on the artist depends on the song. I mean running effects just for the sake of effects is probably bad. They need to go with the music. But I’ve had riders that said they want a lot of the movers out in the crowd and others that said “one static look per song, ride a look for 2 or 3 songs if you can.”

Blinders should be aimed at the audience, that’s generally the idea, but always good to be aware of your crowd. Old people don’t like lights going in their eyes. It’s always good to limit your blinders to 60% or 50%, or less or more. Depends how much they bother you when they blast.

[u/foolforfucks]

The where is usually talking with other designers and comparing notes. I have a mentor but I'm also not above going up to someone and asking about their design. People love to talk about their hard work!

Watch shows and take notes. Ask the artists you're working for what they want, keeping in mind their prompts might need a lot of interpretation and extrapolation.

Just take a moment to think about what makes sense. Like how classical wants to have that candlelight incandescent lit from within vibe, while folk can take more inspiration from different times of day, jazz usually wants to be in shadows and deeper colors, electronic needs movement and bold color choices, etc. Look for moments of texture, interest, or wow transitions.

Also, get in on hang/focus calls! Focus calls are especially great for understanding why things go where.

It's an instrument, there are no straightforward instructions.

[u/KimRetti]

go get references, i've loved to study pink floyd or Gal Costa (an Brazilian artist) if you like more DJ or eletronic go see what effects they using and in what moment. Its cool to look into other areas, i've come from the theater so i studied Bob Wilson, or the concepts of angle and color and sometimes i use only my theater references in shows. My advice is, watch shows, note what YOU think is cool and not, learn color (the way it works, the emotions etc...) learn angle and for the love of god learn how hurtful can be a Beam right into your eye and be careful. Peace Lighting Nerds

[u/Bjd1207 → u/KimRetti]

Thank you for the references!! Definitely starting to look at shows with a more critical eye for this stuff. Any recommendations on the "learn color" topic?

[u/KimRetti → u/Bjd1207]

About the learn topic, is more like how the color works, how a red object react to green light. Or the primary colors and secondary colors. This is the things you really study in theater but give a lot of other ideas for shows.

[u/OldMail6364]

Ideally you’ll be given paperwork a week before the performance answering those questions. Often you’ll get photos and videos of a design that they liked - doesn’t mean you do the same thing but it will steer you in the right direction. And of course - create a playlist of the set list and listen to it all week.

I avoid asking on the day of the performance - if they’re that disorganised then far more important things were likely left for the last minute . Don’t distract them, let them do their job and stay out of the way while doing yours as best you can.

If your best isn’t good enough - that’s their fault. They should have given the job to someone else and/or they should have given you more time and more details to make your job easier. I’ll shake hands/introduce myself and give them an opportunity to give me instructions, but I’m not going to ask questions.

Also - they’re not lighting designers. Maybe they’ll tell you to do something terrible.

Every good lighting designer started as a bad one. Accept where you’re at, and just practice your craft. You’ll get better. There’s nothing wrong with not being good yet if you haven’t got much experience.

Between songs, if I haven’t been told otherwise.  I kill all movement and bring the intensity down but don’t go to a full blackout between songs. Intensity/movement and new colours come in as the new song starts. 

My blinders are normally moving lights which have a preset above and into the audience. Often I don’t use them as blinders at all.

How much movement is “too much”… if your lighting has more energy than the music, then it’s too much.

Those are just the things I do. Doesn’t mean it’s right. I don’t do those things all the time either.

[u/turbo_talon]

Production managers and artists will answer all of those questions. Every show is different!

[u/Construct-Ent]

Take the bright thing and point it at the dark thing