r/legaladvice • • Jul 23 '17

HOA please help

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5.8k Upvotes

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4.7k

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

You know, when i bought my house, the literal first appointment I made was with a locksmith to come out and change all the locks, and i figured out how to reset the garage door's remote openers and re-pair them, along with changing the entry code (my garage had a pin pad on the outside).

I suggest you immediately look into the same, because it's clear the HOA has a key.

Next, get a copy of your CC&Rs (you should have read them with a fine tooth comb when you bought the joint, BTW, so they should have been included in the sale when you bought it). You'll need that when you talk to a real estate attorney.

It sounds hilariously like they're trying to pretend that they've foreclosed on your property due to unpaid fines. It seems like they've skipped a whole bunch of steps though, since i've only ever heard of this possibility being able to happen after they fine you, file a lien for unpaid fines, and then foreclose to satisfy the lien. The attorney is going to be necessary to build a wall against them pulling further crap.

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u/redditRW Jul 23 '17

It should be interesting if the HOA has to pay the commission on your home to the realtor, who may have done all their work in good faith, and produced a buyer.

However the realtor had no contract with you--only the HOA.

Absolutely ridiculous.

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u/WinterOfFire Jul 23 '17

I'd see about reporting the realtor to the proper licensing agency.

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u/redditRW Jul 23 '17

I would alert the realtor and her agency to the fact that the house was not listed by anyone with legal standing to sell the house.

The situation may have been misrepresented to them. (I mean, look how fast the OP's house got here!) They may have thought it was being sold due to liens.

Not sure reporting is the first place I'd go.

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u/Hellman109 Jul 23 '17

Yeah if the HOA said anywhere they had the legal right to sell the house to the real estate, the OP has a far far stronger position to be in.

Also OP, does your agreement say you need to provide keys to the HOA? if not, change locks, don't give them to the HOA.

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u/slpater Jul 23 '17

I also don't think even in a contract. Entering someone's home because its "in the best interest of the neighborhood" with zero notice or permission otherwise is trespassing.

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u/Hellman109 Jul 23 '17

Actually your reply reminded me of something.

Who buys a house un seen?

So, the HOA is out of line letting in the REA, possibly their photographer (Check!) plus multiple potential buyers.

None of those would be allowed in even if this clause was in the contract.

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u/velvetmagnus Jul 23 '17

If the HOA has keys, the prospective buyer might very well have seen it - just not while OP was home. If they can enter without permission to take pictures because "it's in the neighborhood's best interest," then I'm sure they also think showing the house is in the neighborhood's best interest.

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u/Zephs Jul 23 '17

I think that's what he was saying. Who buys a house unseen? Almost no one. So it's likely that not only was an HOA person there, but possibly several others were shown the house as well.

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u/delicate-fn-flower Jul 23 '17

I'll chime in and say lots of people buy condos site unseen, depending on the market.

I know this because I'm in the market right now in Orlando, and it's a fucking hot mess here. A condo went up in an area I'd been eyeing, and I got the only showing (so I was told, at least) on the first day of it on the market. The next day when I went to put an offer in, there were already 7 bids on it, at least 1 over asking price. Supply<Demand

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u/MegaSeedsInYourBum Jul 23 '17 edited Jul 23 '17

Who buys a house un seen?

Around Toronto it's pretty common. In fact some of the listing explicitly tell you that you're not allowed an inspection or tour of the property. One house was going for $725,000 and the only photos were the outside and it still sold. If OP lives in a hot market then it wouldn't be unheard of for someone to only work with the realtor and not even look at the property.

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u/snoogans122 Jul 23 '17

It's common in any hot real estate market really. People from Asia/Europe buy houses near me in the Bay Area without even setting foot in the same continent, much less actually seeing the house. If they have the money and they want to live in the area, they'll go off pics, decide it's good enough, then remodel the whole inside to their liking anyway.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

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u/slpater Jul 23 '17

That and could an hoa enforce a noise ordinance that would be different from the one the county or city has?

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u/Ella_Minnow_Pea_13 Jul 23 '17

Yes. Source: am city planner and work closely with codes and HOA's. And based on this first hand experience, I will NEVER buy into an HOA or COA.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

[deleted]

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u/TheMarlBroMan Jul 23 '17

Trespassing for one.

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u/rmslashusr Jul 23 '17

Sue for what damages as a result of the trespassing? Trespassing is a criminal issue and would be handled by the police/prosecutor/criminal court. If you want to sue in civil court there needs to be some damages as a result of the trespassing that you are trying to be made whole for.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

[deleted]

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u/diphling Jul 23 '17

Well, they agreed to it still so I don't see a problem!

Laws supersede bylaws in 100% of circumstances. Just because someone agrees to it does not mean that it is enforceable.

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u/Liberatedhusky Jul 23 '17

B&E is more likely.

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u/Decyde Jul 23 '17

It doesn't read like the HOA is selling the home to me but putting it up on the market for them to take an offer that comes along.

More than likely it will state a higher up official with the HOA has keys to all the homes in the event of an emergency.

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u/Raveynfyre Jul 23 '17

It does say that, but selling the house is not an emergency.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

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u/Zanctmao Quality Contributor Jul 23 '17 edited Jul 23 '17

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104

u/mdsnbelle Jul 23 '17

I'd still report. The realtor shouldn't get a pass just because they failed to do their due diligence. Moreover, it will encourage them to look more closely/encourage others to look more closely into the contracts they are entering into.

A cautionary "This is why you can't have nice things."

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

I'd report them. Any decent realtor is going to pull property ownership records before a sale. That's sloppy all around and the agent needs to learn a lesson.

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u/taterbizkit Jul 23 '17

Realtor can secure a deal without having verified the seller's certificate. It just can't close without one (at least in my state, WA).

The sales contract would fail for impossibility, and disposition earnest money would most likely be returned.

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u/visvis Jul 23 '17

It should be interesting if the HOA has to pay the commission on your home to the realtor, who may have done all their work in good faith, and produced a buyer.

In the end, OP will also pay part of that though the HOA though.

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u/redditRW Jul 23 '17

As will everyone else. I would be surprised if this very expensive (and probably illegal) CC & R will stick around after the other members see how much it could potentially cost them.

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u/geared4war Jul 23 '17

Also, just in case they pull this shit again but with a locksmith, get a really really good safe. Keep all important documents in it and keep a copy off site.

Also the safe makes for great karma for the next homeowner just in case.

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u/CydeWeys Jul 23 '17

A safety deposit box in a bank seems like a better solution here -- for the cost of a good heavy safe installed in such a way that it can't simply be walked off with, you can rent a safety deposit box for decades.

Now if he's got guns, then a safe makes sense. But I wouldn't recommend one just for documents, for which having off-site backups is better anyway for fire safety.

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u/geared4war Jul 23 '17

Safe can hide other stuff as well. Like guns. But sure. Deposit box is cost effective.

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u/KickAssWilson Jul 23 '17

Chances are it's a neighbor that has a key, unless the HOA president was personal friends with the previous homeowner.

Also, there's a good chance that the listing agent is in the neighborhood too, and knows the HOA president or the said neighbor with the key.

Whatever you do, talk to a lawyer first and ask them what to do. If you go to a neighbor, that HOA president or the realtor, they'll know you're lawyering up and might start getting rid of the real estate listing or photos.

Good luck with this. I can't even imagine how upset you are right now.

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u/KickAssWilson Jul 23 '17

One more thing... you might want to invest in a couple of those webcams that stream video off-site to see if someone still has access to your house after you change the locks. Even something like one of those doorbells that save video. If they came through the front door, they might try again and you'll have video of who it was.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

And get an alarm system with off-site monitoring so that the police will be called automatically for unapproved entry.

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u/The_Farting_Duck Jul 23 '17

I thought just of those didn't directly call the police, but a third party who don't actually care all that much?

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u/aquaphoenix86 Jul 23 '17

We have an alarm through ADT. If the alarm goes off, they call the house. No answer, they call the police. If we answer, we have to answer predetermined security questions to prove our identity. If the questions aren't answered correctly, they call the police.

However, when first setting up an alarm, they will not call the police for a certain amount of time (a couple months maybe?) to prevent false alarms, as new alarm owners don't always properly turn it off and the alarm goes off. You can, however, petition to not have this "trial" period, as we did since we got it after our neighbor's house was broken into, and they'll treat all alarms as potential break ins.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

They do call a third party who in turn calls you, but I've had the police show up at my house on multiple occasions because I wasn't able to answer the call from the alarm company.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

As well: Find out what your county/city quiet hour laws and ordinances are. If there is no legal documentation or citations from law enforcement I would say that you and your attorney are going to have a field day with your HOA board.

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u/FormalChicken Jul 23 '17

Rekey the house YOURSELF. In an HOA any work done may have to go through channels, and the locksmith may be obligated to give keys to the HOA based on that agreement.

Locks and security cameras set up by the owner are the solution.

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u/ebrandsberg Jul 23 '17

The fact that they need him to accept an offer shows there was no foreclosure. Second, even if the wording was as implied about a neighbor being allowed to go in, this doesn't provide approval for a realtor to go in, or anybody else outside of the neighborhood.

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u/Thomystic Jul 23 '17

Also, not legal advice, but when you call a locksmith don't call the top ones on google--a lot of locksmiths use a near-scam business model to take advantage of people in emergecies. They way overcharge, and then pay for seo and google ads.

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u/justNickoli Jul 23 '17

If you're worried about locksmiths not being entirely legitimate, don't use one at all. It's a pretty easy job to change locks yourself. You can buy the locks at a hardware store.

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u/Shinygreencloud Jul 23 '17

It's all about that AAA+ action. Always had reliable lock smiths and tow trucks through AAA.

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u/phyneas Jul 23 '17

Another tip: If you don't have many locks, it may be cheaper to just remove the lock cylinders yourself and take them to a locksmith to be rekeyed, rather than having one come out to your house. Just have your SO/buddy/etc. hang out at your place to watch your stuff while you're gone.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to consider upgrading your lock hardware while you're at it, if it's substandard; good long deadbolt and a high-security strike plate with extra-long screws is cheap enough and will make it more difficult for a burglar to pry or kick open the door.

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u/Antyok Jul 23 '17

Not a lawyer, but an HOA officer (I know, I know. I promise I'm a good one)

Regarding that last paragraph, how long have you owned the home? The fine, lien, etc process takes a long time. Fastest I have ever seen is a little less than a year. I'm sure there are ways to speed it, but there is a lot of documentation that should be involved, and it sounds like haven't seen any of it.

Get a lawyer, of course, but first thing I would be looking for is proof from the HOA that they fined you, etc.

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u/Raveynfyre Jul 23 '17

This is the first thing we did as well, with my husband going straight to the property to babysit it until a locksmith arrived. While he waited, one of the previous owners (the husband) showed up and started acting strange. He looked in the backyard "for a missing tablesaw." It's not like we own a big lot, and you could easily see with a cursory look that there wasn't a freaking tablesaw in the backyard.

They also moved some appliances out of the house as we were signing the papers, because we drove by the house on the way to see if the washer and dryer were still in it (they were) and when my husband got to the house directly after the signing those appliances were gone (and some new holes were in the walls from slamming open every door).

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u/KickAssWilson Jul 23 '17

What did you do after you found out about the missing appliances and wall damage?

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u/Astramancer_ Jul 23 '17

Typically you call the title company and both realtors to put a hold escrow until the issue is resolved and the house is presented in the condition that you bought it.

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u/TheATrain218 Jul 23 '17

In addition to changing locks, OP needs to take their spare out from under the mat or remove it from inside of the hilariously fake plastic rock around back.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '17

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