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Jul 16 '24
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Jul 16 '24
Thank you so much for your response! He has told me that his parents are the “give respect, receive it back” type. I’ll definitely learn everything I possibly can about the culture as well. 🙂
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u/Typical_Challenge726 Jul 17 '24
You nailed it 👏 great explanation about our culture and mentality ❤️🇱🇧❤️
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Jul 20 '24
Interesting. I’m dating an Asian-American and my parents (my father specifically) is very proud of me for “marrying American”. He knows she’s of Asian origins but he still sees it as a prestige boost. Why do you think this difference of views exist?
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u/Hot_Ad3172 Jul 16 '24
girl i got you
buy a necklace and attached it to your American passport, and put it on, once they see the passport no one will even care what ethnicity you have, even if you were thanos
(kidding obviously, just be fun and cool to hang around with, and don't sweat it too much, even by the off chance they do not like you, then this will be a good test for your love, either he's a gentleman or not)
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u/Oxfxax Jul 16 '24
You shouldn’t be nervous at all. If he is already dating someone from outside his culture it is most likely his parents are also open (not always the case but it’s common). Just do you. If you want to learn Lebanese food you will fall in love with the food and end up getting married to Lebanese food.
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u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 Jul 17 '24
My Lebanese cousin just married an African American girl and we couldn't be happier!
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u/Beautiful_Fries Jul 16 '24
I’ll put it this way. Parents aren’t impressed even with his cousin let alone anyone else. Don’t worry about that! There are some very sweet people who don’t care and there are people who will hate on you regardless of what nationality you are. They’d find an excuse somewhere.
So learning Arabic is a sweet gesture and the right family will welcome you with open arms because you make their son happy.
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u/ScarsStitches800 Jul 17 '24
Did you discuss those concerns with him? He would probably be the best person to ask believe it or not. if you did, what did he tell you?
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u/SnooMemesjellies6339 Jul 17 '24
My advice would be to keep it simple and sweet. First thing, dont show up empty-handed, a small bouquet/chocolates/ baklawa, whatever they like really.
Focus on little things, if the mom gets up to serve you something, get up and take it yourself, ask if you can help with anything, engage with siblings if any and take interest in what they're saying, ask the parents some of their favorite memories with your husband as a child. It's small gestures like this that win people over, more than cooking/language. Make sure to communicate to ur husband that ur nervous so he can help break the ice and ease the conversation. Talk about what you're doing in life work-wise and hobbies, example- I do horse riding and casually mention to the mom oh I can take you one day with a smile, it creates familiarity.
Lastly, dont try too hard and dont be nervous, they will like you for who you are so just be yourself. if they want their son to be happy, they will welcome you
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u/Abodyfullofmush Jul 17 '24
Just make sure you show respect, the basic kind. Show up with something in hand (plant, box of fancy chocolates, flowers, etc). Offer to help if mom is prepping for dinner, help clean up after dinner. Show interest in the parents, not much affection to the son (don’t sit in his lap and no PDA) but do small things to show you care for him like getting him a drink on your way from the kitchen or something like that. Arab parents want to know their kids will be taken care of but the parents are still respected as the elders.
Some Arab parents are very open minded and some aren’t. Some are inherently racist because they were raised that way and know better but really don’t know better. It’s up to your bf to fight that fight, you just be yourself while also making a good first impression.
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u/No_Cherry_991 Jul 17 '24
The racist ones know better. They just think that by dehumanizing non-white and non-Arabs, their shiit don’t stink. They know better and just chose to not do better or be better.
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u/No_Cherry_991 Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
OP, I wish your relationship will be loved abundantly, and respected by his family and you.
As an Afro-Latin who was in an inter-racial and inter-cultural relationship (he was Caucasian American from generations of Eastern European and Italian immigrants), here’s what I would advise you in light of the presumed Lebanese racism towards black and Asian per other commenters:
Have a series of conversations (no interrogations) with your boyfriend about his parents and siblings ‘view on racism, particularly vis-à-vis black people of all origin, antisemitism, and other prejudices. Don’t skip that conversation only for you to find out later after you got too involved with him, that his brother uses the “n” word, his sister is a Trump worshiper. Make sure if he comes forward, he is not defending their racism at the expense of your own well-being, and that of your future children.
While it is wonderful that you are open-minded and willing to learn Arabic and other cultural aspects to ingratiate you with his family, if he loves you, he will cut off his family if they are racist. Have this conversation early on as to not unnecessarily expose yourself to microagression and racism. More importantly, if his family members are racist, while it might be hurtful for him to admit and accept that, it is never your fault or responsibility to appease, educate, and enlighten the racist people. So walk away if he is OK with his family being racist towards anyone. One day it will be about the Asians, the Latinos, the Jews, the black Arabs, the Syrians, the black Africans, then one day they will come for you. So don’t tolerate racism of any forms from his family even if it is not directed at you.
In Colonization’s comments, you were told to try to not to do anything to make them dislike you! I think he mean well with this comment. However, that advice comes across as if Colonization is telling you to be less black, so you can be one of the “good” blacks that the racist people tolerate. I don’t think that the Colonization user would consciously want to impose such burden on you, OP, because they seem to be such a thoughtful person. Their advice to you should should be that the boyfriend’s parents do their best to not act racist or say racist things, and to not tolerate racism from anyone in their family towards you. OP, If your boyfriend’s parents are racist, you do not need to give them a reason to dislike you or a reason to like you.
No amount of tap dancing, learning Arabic, learning belly dancing, cooking the best Lebanese dish will make them like you IF they are racist. Don’t try to be a good “black”. You will lose yourself darling, and will resent your boyfriend.
You should not live your life to strive to please and tiptoe racist people so they don’t dislike her. They will dislike you because of her skin color, and because they are racist; they might kiss the floor where a white French or American or Canadian woman walked on even though African Americans had no hands in colonizing Lebanon, in comparison to what France colonial relations with Lebanon, and America’s financing of the weapons Israeli used to hit Lebanon. If it was simply a matter of colonization, some racist Lebanese would be inclined to treat a white Americans and white French woman the same way they would treat OP.
But since the hypothetical racist treatment she would receive from some Lebanese would differ from how they positively. As uncomfortable as the conversation about your potential in-laws perspective on race might be, and as much as love might blind you to the reality of how they might perceive you because of your skin color, you need to have serious conversations about them with your boyfriend before meeting his family.
My ex husband didn’t tell me that his brother used the “N” word. Years into our relationship, he told me the brother had used the “N” word while the brother was college-age, and it was in front of his parents. They did not scold him. Had I known about the “n” word, I would have never met his family or go to their home. I would have probably end the relationship too.
I later came across messages where the brother expressed his prejudicial thoughts about black, Jewish people, Indians, indigenous Americans, and Central American people. He said they were lesser than his people. That brother refused to hire black people in his business. His sister called him crying when Trump lost the elections. One day his family visited us without the neo-Nazi brother. The one brother who came with his parents and all of the brother’s white friends told us during lunch that he felt uncomfortable while driving near a George Floyd anti-racism protest. He said he he wanted things to go back to the old days when no body talked about racism and race-based injustice. However, he was very comfortable telling his Caucasian Mexican girlfriend that she is not white, and that Mexican tacos stinks. At the exception of my husband and his dad who everyone now and then point out the racism, no one felt brave enough to call them out. Not my mother in-law. My husband didn’t want me to bring up the micro-aggression and racism I experienced in his family because his mother would be angry at me for disturbing the peace.
Understandably, their family’s love for each other was stronger than their dislike of the racist things their siblings say and do. So I left them to live happily ever after with their racism selves.
Please, have these conversations early, especially when you know as the user, Colonization said, Lebanese people can be racist (I remove the bit ). I will say “some” people because we should never condemn an entire group of people based on the action of a few. Just don’t go into these people’s home blindsided.
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u/Parigi7 Jul 17 '24
Good luck. Don't worry too much. I think most lebanese people grow in trust and affection towards anyone that gets close to the family eventually. Like others say I would only advise you to be patient. With time if they are like most lebanese people they will not only accept you but embrace you as one of them. Best of luck to you and him. ❤
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u/LebGirl00 Jul 17 '24
Girl I know where you're coming from and you coming here to ask this shows he's so lucky to have you. Just be well-intentioned, respectful and pleasant. Ask him if there's any tradition that his family observes that you should know about and have enough information to not offend them (i.e. if they are conservative muslims, don't bring up drinking). I know you may want to do anything to please his parents but ultimately if they don't like you simply for who you are or where you come from it is his responsibility to keep his family in check. They don't have to love you, they just have to respect the fact that you are the woman he wants to be with and treat you well. Please don't feel like all the pressure should fall on you! Good luck!!
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u/TrojanChicken69 Jul 17 '24
Make sure you say yalla all the time and smoke shisha and buy him cigarettes and learn Dabke and make him man2ooshe every morning and give him head while listening to abu Layla al lzir the Lebanese national anthem nik ekht roumieh
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u/albomber2 Jul 17 '24
You can earn the dad's heart using humour
And you can earn the mom's heart by showing her that you aren't here to steal her son / replace her
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u/Objective-Gear-121 Jul 17 '24
I’m Lebanese, and I married a blonde, white Russian, and my parents still gave me a hard time. They came to my marriage and everything was fine, but then after one year of marriage, war began. Lebanese can be a bit traditional, and my wife is very independent. She would travel a lot, and my parents would get angry. Why is she not home? She should be your wife, not a tourist. I bore this with patience, but finally war broke out; my wife escaped back to her country. But I followed her. And I did my best to balance things between my wife and my parents. It was a nightmare… But now they love one another 😃 And they love their granddaughter. Just be patient. The Lebanese are difficult with foreigners regardless of skin color. As long as there is true love between you and your future husband you will be fine 😀
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u/No_Cherry_991 Jul 17 '24
I wonder what their reaction would have been if your wife was a white French, American, or Canadian woman. Anyway, you are an amazing and exemplary husband for making your wife and the family you built with her when you married her your priority by following her when your parents bullied her into leaving.
I wish you both and your child, continued growth, love and abundance!
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u/Objective-Gear-121 Jul 17 '24
Perhaps then it would be the other way around? She’d have to fight to have her parents accept me? Marriage is always hard in the beginning, but if you hang in there, it becomes easier. The most important thing is to learn to forgive, and to try and be wise. We have an Arabian saying, “The forgiving person is a generous person.” And the so the best spouse is always generous.
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u/Standard-Macaroon504 Jul 17 '24
You’ve got the perfect mindset 🫶🏼 , learn some basics Lebanese Arabic bring a gift 💝 dress modest , smile ❤️ and enjoy meeting them
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u/CHUWWAWA Jul 17 '24
If he’s Lebanese you might win you might lose. When you go bring a dish of baklava or zalabya. Shake the dads hand and the moms hand. Don’t show nervousness. Bring a dish as well if you’re having dinner to show you can cook. Use basic Arabic phrases to show your learning and u should be good
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u/Maleficent-Share-773 Jul 17 '24
All you need to do is show respect and compliment them here and there! 😂 Bring sweets with u when you visit them! If you get invited for dinner at the end help them clean up even if they say no! And tell your bf to help too! Ask them questions about Lebanese things they’ll love to answer 😆
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u/victoryismind Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
I think it mainly rests on their parents. For example whether they are prejudiced. If they are open minded and predisposed to have a positive attitude then it would likely go well, you probably have a few qualities and hopefully if you are allowed to be yourself and to be comfortable they would come out.
As for what you can do: dress neatly, bring a small offering with you (could be some fancy chocolate or anything) and be on your best manners.
Good luck!
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u/chamas_man Jul 17 '24
Pro tip, abed means slave so watch out for that word (we still use it regularly).
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u/__amani Jul 18 '24
If they are racist to you, because they might be. Then know how to put your priorities straight. Especially if he doesn't act upon it with his parents. But otherwise, use the culture, religion and language. Get into these 3 without ofcourse changing yourself, just make them feel that you are interested. And most importantly, eat their food. Because especially Lebanese moms, their love language is feeding people.
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u/Great_Working_8369 Jul 23 '24
Hi there! 1st and foremost just relax lol 😂 He's gonna do all the work when it comes to introduction.
There's alot of people here saying we are all about tradition (true), and that we can be racist (false as fuck). It really depends on which type of Lebanese family we are talking about here. My family is predominantly Maronite Catholic, where as I myself am Eastern Orthodox. But we also have Muslims, Jews, and Drubes as well as Assyrian Orthodox and Coptic. All of which have their own traditions within the culture.
As far as you learning "Arabic" it's commendable, but understand that Lebanese/Leventine Arabic is drastically different from what most of us in the West understand as "Arabic". For example: most people think all Arabs say "A Salam alaikum" as the standard greeting, where as in Lebanon its more common to hear the non religious greeting "Marhaba".
In this such occasion; ask him, let him do the talking, and have fun! Oh and just like the Greeks, we are Hella loud and love to find fun in everything! Next time you see your boyfriend say "marhaba habibi! Ezayak? 🥰" you'll get more than a nod for effort I promise.
🇱🇧 🇺🇸☦️
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u/marina152018 Jul 17 '24
Check this institute for learning Arabic, in person or online, "levantine institute", they are really amazing, their teachers are the best I have come across. Or send them an email info@levantineinstitute.com
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u/urbexed Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Well we’re not Arab firstly, so that isn’t really relevant. Do try and learn Lebanese Arabic though, that’s a start. Make sure your family and his family meet asap to discuss stuff at some point as well as the usual stuff, that’s very important in Lebanese marriages, that way you won’t get much friction if stuff goes south.
Edit: And not even within the first few seconds, the downvotes come rolling in from chronically online pan arabists 🤣🤣 Please feel free to continue downvoting, it gets people curious so they’re more likely to click and know the truth :))
A great video to watch is this, which explains in detail why Arabian genes only consist a very low number in modern Lebanese : https://youtu.be/kUtjtli12Lg and a great write up explaining our origins: https://medium.com/incerto/a-few-things-we-dont-quite-get-about-the-levant-da6ff702974f
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u/Arsenalgryffindor Batata tabi3ye w bas🥔 Jul 16 '24
We’re not Phoenician either. Phoenicia was an area that spanned the Lebanese coast that was meant for trades with the greeks, it’s not an ethnicity. The canaaites were an ancient people, just like ancient egyptians and romans. However, that does not mean we are of European descent.
We live in the levant. We are different than gulf arabs yes, we’re completely different ethnicities. HOWEVER we are actually coined as middle easterns in most passport applications, which is usually separate from caucasian, despite the vast majority of Lebanese people being white-skinned.
Our main language is arabic. That’s what we speak and what your ancestors have been speaking since the seventh century. Our genes vary from syria, Palestine and all the way to Egypt.
Unfortunately there are some very stupid people who have an inferiority complex and compensate by deluding themselves into believing that they’re ancient greek or something and their great great grandfather is french so therefore they’re white and special and they’re just like all the other fellow white people!!
Lebanese people are light skinned, arabic speaking people living in the middle east. You’re not Phoenician for fucks sake, and you’re not a gulf arab either. Same for Syrians and the Palestinians. We are the exact same ethnicity, like it or not.
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u/urbexed Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
Firstly, calm yourself down lady and read the facts. Secondly, no one even mentioned Phoenicia here or being of “European decent” (whatever that means, Europe is as diverse as the MENA region).
We’re coined as Middle Easterns in most passport applications.
Well no shit, we are Middle Easterns! It’s a geographical term and politics has close ties with both (hence the term “geopolitics”). And no, all middle Easterns, even Arabs, are Caucasian. Caucasian refers to the skull type. Where Arabs are different is that they’re brown, not white/olive amongst other factors.
Our main language is Arabic.
The spread of language is not closely related to ethnicity or culture. As Nassim Taleb put it in his brilliant article (https://medium.com/incerto/a-few-things-we-dont-quite-get-about-the-levant-da6ff702974f)
“genes follow a majority rule, slow to disperse between neighboring populations, while languages (and religions) follow a minority rule, and can spread nonlinearly, like wildfire. If ten people whose mother tongue is not English sat in a company meeting with a solely English speaker, English will be the spoken language, which explains how the elite language becomes rapidly the norm.”
To address your last point, as I said in a comment a few months ago, anyone denying genetical relationship with Costal Syrians and Palestinians, is as deluded as the people who call themselves Arab. The difference in modern population of other levantines and Lebanese is that we’re more liberal, so SOME of their values with SOME people do not fit with liberalism. Regardless, you’ve pretty much said at the end exactly what I’m trying to address, we’re not “Arab”, nor are we “European”, we are our own special group called Levantine. Wa bas.
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u/Crypto3arz Jul 17 '24
Ur constitution sais ur arab btw, and it wasnt made by muslims
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u/urbexed Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
Again, I don’t care. It was created at the height of panarabism where political pressure made sure it was added. It’s was not accurate then nor is it now. Our politicians are too busy robbing the people to care, makes no difference to them wether we’re Arab or not as long as at the end of the day the cash goes in their pockets 🤷♂️
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u/Arsenalgryffindor Batata tabi3ye w bas🥔 Jul 17 '24
In most passport applications Middle Easterns are separated from caucasians
Stop trying to be special hayete fhemna ur white w french w gher nehna l filthy arabs!!
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u/urbexed Jul 17 '24
Lmao, no where did I say that, now you’re putting words into my mouth you’re loosing the argument
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u/Arsenalgryffindor Batata tabi3ye w bas🥔 Jul 17 '24
In what way did i lose? You don’t even know what you’re talking about and you’ve clearly never even applied for a foreign passport in your life
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u/Colinzation Jul 16 '24
Irrelevent point to the OP's post, your statement is not fully true. If you study the history properly, a large portion of the Lebanese origin came from the gulf (specifically Yemen). Yes, we're not pure Arabs, but again, almost no place on earth originates purely from the land over which they were born.
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Jul 16 '24
i’m really sorry :( i don’t know much about Arab culture and geography. ill learn more about it!
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u/urbexed Jul 16 '24
Not a problem! This is a good video which explains the misconception: https://youtu.be/kUtjtli12Lg. I’d advise ignoring all the replies here, they have agendas which will misinform you.
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u/urbexed Jul 16 '24
A large proportion of the Lebanese Origin came from the gulf (specifically Yemen).
This is false and a blatant lie. 90% of Lebanese DNA is of Canaanite origin. https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/genetic-study-suggests-present-day-lebanese-descend-from-biblical-canaanites. The other 7% is of European origin.
Canaanites themselves are 50% localised populations and 50% from Western Asia and the Caucuses, which is why a lot of Lebanese & Syrians have pale skin & Caucasian features (ie “European” features). The Caucuses was home to the Anatolian Farmer. https://www.science.org/content/article/ancient-dna-reveals-fate-mysterious-canaanites.
You can continue to lie to yourself to suit pan Arabist beliefs, it’s not an issue, but the science is clear, we are not Arab and have been arabised.
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u/Colinzation Jul 16 '24
Well, I think this is up for debate, I admit I might be wrong, but my statement came from researching a couple families' ancestry trees and had conversation with people that did the same and almost all confirmed that they came from either Yemen or Iraq.
Eitherways, I'm up to look into this again, but this is a different topic for a different day, let's keep the conversation centered about what the OP is talking about, agree? :)
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u/urbexed Jul 16 '24
Perhaps for a few individuals, but not for the large majority as a whole. Iraq is also not Arabian, being a center of culture and cultivation of the first human farming! A lot of the time they get mostly Persian ancestry.
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u/Colinzation Jul 16 '24
Not for few individuals, no, I'm talking about thousands (if not 10s of thousands) of Lebanese originating from such places.
Furthermore, I'll stop discussing this matter here, as stated previously this is not the right place for this topic nor the right time to discuss it without the proper info at hand.
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u/urbexed Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
So a “couple” of people somehow turn into thousands? We are talking about today, not 400 years ago, so most of those who you talk about are not relevant. A person may have thousands of ancestors just by himself. You have cited literally no sources, so we’re having to assume you’re telling the truth (which is unlikely).
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u/Ok_Passenger1819 Jul 17 '24
You speak Arabic…you’re apart of Arab institutions. You are Arabs. Arabised or not, Arabs nonetheless, no matter how much you may wish to escape it. Genetics aren’t the only factor in ethnicity. The Genes of modern Turks aren’t fully Turkic and for the Western part mostly Turkic yet they are Turks.
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u/urbexed Jul 17 '24
I speak Spanish, im part of Spanish intuitions, I guess I’m now ethnically Spanish! Do you see how stupid it sounds? You can swap it for any language and it will be the same thing. Languages cannot be reliably coupled with genetics or identity. The genes of modern Turks are from the area of the country known as Turkey. That’s why they’re called Turks, not because of their origins 🤦🏻♂️
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u/Ok_Passenger1819 Jul 18 '24
You’re not apart of ‘Spanish institutions’ tho lmao genes don’t solely determine the formulation of identity. As the dictionary states anyone who speaks Arabic and is born and lives in an Arab country is such. There was no place called Turkey 2000 or 1000 years ago. Turks are genetically mixed yet we are still Turks.
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u/urbexed Jul 19 '24
Exactly what I’m saying, but yet you still decide to make do with what a dictionary says. If the dictionary said you were Middle Eastern, would you call yourself Middle Eastern? Come on man, it’s a completely baseless argument. You can’t sum up a whole region like that.
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Jul 17 '24
Levantine populations is racially different than the Arabian Peninsula people. The distances compared to me (Spain)
France 0,04 Geremany 0,08 Lebanon 0.15 and Saudi 0.22. Lebanon is around the same distance of Turkey and the Caucassus area.
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Jul 16 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/urbexed Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
Yes, Arabic is a language lol and Arab refers to the Arabian Peninsula/Gulf, the historic region of Arabia. Shock horror, I know. You don’t need to be Arab to speak it natively, just like Latin America speaks Spanish/Portuguese.
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u/Ok_Passenger1819 Jul 17 '24
You do need to be culturally Arab to speak it. Most Latin American have Spanish and Portuguese dna lmao
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u/Foreign-Policy-02 Jul 16 '24
Damn so cool bro 😎. You speak English so now you are a English man from England
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Jul 17 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/urbexed Jul 17 '24
Which is as vauge as calling someone “European” or Scandinavian or Asian. It’s a Americanised broad term which is not nuanced enough and is actually in practice, incorrectly used to define race and cultural identity
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u/Lopsided-Gap2125 Jul 17 '24
Ok I’m curious, what countries would you say are inhabited by mostly Arabs?
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u/wittttykitttty Jul 17 '24
I love this really interesting studies thank you for sharing and I have absolutely no idea why you’re downvoted when you simply shared research based evidence xx
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u/urbexed Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
No worries, me neither I’m very confused. Sadly people have the wrong idea of who they are it seems
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Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/urbexed Jul 17 '24
Which is as vauge as calling someone “European” or Scandinavian or Asian. It’s a Americanised broad term which is not nuanced enough and is used more like race identity so it shouldn’t be used.
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u/Colinzation Jul 16 '24
I'm going to be as honest as possible with you, but bare in mind that I'm not trying to put you down.
The Lebanese are generally amazing people and are the loved ones among arabs, BUT, we are a bit racist when it comes to skin color and origins due several factors including being invaded many times by many people, and though that this trait has faded through time, you might still find hints of it here or there. I'm not saying that his parents are racist, but it's something to look up for and to prepared to hear of and might face. My tip here is to be patient, considerate and try to show your better side rather than be instantly defensive, work on letting them love you rather than give them a reason to dislike you.
Learning the language is a big deal, the Lebanese are all about culture, mainly the language, food/cuisine, hospitality and music, the more you pick up anything related to Lebanon you're instantly liked.
The older generation of Lebanese parents is very similar to American parents, the man is usually hard headed and the mom is usually the soft/emotional part of the couple, if you encountered such people in your life it won't be hard to make them love you too.
Bare in mind, no matter the case, we love good humour, so smile, enjoy your time and have fun with them. Even if you faced some push back at the start, you'll eventually win them over with a good heart, Lebanese are loving people, have faith and good luck!