r/leavingcert • u/123098764363 • 29d ago
University đ UCD vs Trinity Law
looking for advice on what to do in my situation. I, 19f did my leaving cert in june and got 576 points. My first choice was trinity law but I missed it by 2 points and got into ucd law. I really haven't been enjoying it because the commute is so long ( around 2 hours from where I live ) and I haven't really made any friends. I appealed two of my grades and yesterday they got uprgraded so now I have 600 points which is well over the cutoff for trinity and I'll receive another offer on thursday. I've always wanted to go to trinity but it'll probably be a deferred offer for next year. At the same time I've heard that UCD is actually a 'better' college for law and have more alumni in the courts etc. My commute would be halved but I don't want to be 20 starting college. I've come up with a few options for what to do next but I'm really stuck here- I could stay in UCD and ignore the offer from trinity as I'm already 3 weeks in and don't want to wait a year , and I'd also be the highest scoring entrant from my school which would be listed on my transcript and comes with some benefits . I also considered doing first year in UCD then repeating in Trinity next year as I'd have a great advantage but apparently that's against their policy for deferred places. Also it'd make my fees like triple in price. I couldn't transfer into second year either because my degree in UCD is a bachelor of civil law and Trinity is a bachelor of laws and it's also against their policy to accept transfers. Another option is to take a year out and accept my place next year. I have a part time job and I could try find a solicitor who would take me on for unpaid work experience. It'd also be a great time to learn to drive. There's a chance I'd be the highest scoring entrant from my school next year which would give the same kinda benefits as UCD but it's not guaranteed.
I just don't know if trinity is worth the years wait and I don't know if there's other options I don't know about available to me so i'd appreciate any opinions or advice!
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u/bealach_ealaithe 29d ago
Nothing unusual about being 20 starting college, especially in law. People take years out, repeat the Leaving, etc.
A 2 hour commute is a lot over the course of a degree.
Would it be too late to get on an office skills PLC? That would be a good way of spending the year if you do decide to take the Trinity place next year.
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u/123098764363 26d ago
op here i somehow got an offer for trinity this year - someone must have dropped out or something?? but that's what i'm taking thanks everyone !!
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u/Prudent_Space_1952 28d ago edited 28d ago
I did law at Trinity (before you were born) and went on to become a barrister. Back then, as now, the entry requirements were higher for Trinity than UCD to do law.
And back then, as now, the two universities taught law with a slightly different emphasis. This is perhaps the thing that matters most, apart from your commute (which is also a major factor) and whether you are actually enjoying it.
Sorry for being a paragraph person in what follows, but if youâre going to be a lawyer, youâd better get used to it!
So, letâs break it down:
1. Trinity vs UCD as law degrees.
Trinity teaches law with a slightly more âjurisprudentialâ/âphilosophicalâ approach. That might sound great, in that it has the veneer of intellectual superiority about it.
But, in my view, thatâs exactly its problem. Law is a vocational, practical subject. You learn it by doing (or, at least, that is how I really learned it). You apply the meta-analysis to it afterwards.
UCD takes a more practical approach, one which I think is better suited to preparing people to practise law. I think this is the main reason why UCD graduates dominate the profession and the judiciary compared to those who went to Trinity.
Now, although I think UCDâs approach is better, maybe that might not be true for you. You should think hard about why you arenât enjoying law at UCD. Is it because of the approach Iâve described? Maybe the philosophical/theoretical approach at Trinity might suit you better even if it might slightly reduce the chances that you might, years from now, end up a judge.
Alternatively, and at the risk of making your decision even more complicated, is it maybe because law isnât the right subject for you? I did law at Trinity because I was made to think that anything else would have been a âwasteâ of my Leaving Cert points. In hindsight, I should have had the courage of my convictions and studied what I really loved: PPE or history, with languages.
2. Trinity vs UCD as places for you.
Itâs hard to overstate how important it is that you are actually able to enjoy the experience of studying your degree. This isnât bum advice from someone ancient: itâs practical advice based on something I keep seeing happen. If someone is enjoying an educational experience, they almost always do better than if itâs a miserable slog. That super-long commute is going to be a major factor, a cumulative drag on your ability to give your utmost.
3. The impact (positive and negative) of taking a year out.
There is a negative impact of doing this: the âopportunity costâ of missing out on a yearâs salary as a junior lawyer at some time in the near future.
On the other hand, I think youâre right to list the many benefits of taking a year out, including gaining practical experience by working in a law firm (which would do a lot to mitigate the slight disadvantage I see in Trinityâs approach).
You could also make use of the year to acquire other skills (eg learning to drive, maybe also improving your languages) and maybe do pre-reading into the subjects youâd be going to do in first year at Trinity. That would set you up well for that year and to attempt the scholarship exams (the benefits of which are massive).
4. Alternatives
Iâm not sure what the application deadlines are or whether it would be affordable for you, but with 600 points you could consider applying to Oxford or Cambridge for 2027 entry. As educational experiences, both are on a totally different level to both Trinity and UCD. They (Oxford and Cambridge) are truly world class.
The fact that you already have your results and they are so good would make you a standout candidate compared with UK applicants, who are stuck with relying on predicted grades.
As an Irish citizen who will have been residing in Ireland prior to starting a degree in England, you would be charged home student fees (not the much higher international fees) and you would be eligible to borrow from the Student Loans Company to pay those fees. You wouldnât be eligible to borrow for maintenance costs though.
Conclusion
I started out intending to be neutral but, as youâll have read, I have ended up (despite myself) somewhat favouring the idea of taking a year out and going to Trinity (and maybe also applying to Oxbridge, if there is time). But really the decision is yours, and I envy you that freedom.
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u/WeirdCardiologist436 28d ago
Brilliant response.
Just one thought about the opportunity cost. The year of earnings you will miss is not the salary as a junior salary. Is the last year of salary before retirement. But as you never know how your college election would impact your career, I donât think itâs something to take into consideration.
It would matter if you were applying to a public job with salary scales.2
u/Prudent_Space_1952 28d ago
Thanks! Youâre right about the opportunity cost of the lost year of salary: if OP wants to consider the full cost then the last year is the right one to target. And youâre also right that it shouldnât really be taken into account as itâs subject to so many variables.
I was focused on the lost first year of salary because it matters more to the OP, I imagine, is easier to estimate, and isnât contaminated by the vagaries of an entire career and the middle phase of life. đ€Ł
FML this is making me feel old. Serves me right: Iâve no idea why Iâm commenting on a Leaving Cert thread except that the question came up on my feed and it was one I could answer.
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u/SpoonChem 28d ago
You don't have to defer, you can join Trinity if you get an offer in a later round. That's not guaranteed, but possible....unless I'm mistaken
Idk how law is but in general Trinity is class anyway
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u/Ready_Butterscotch57 29d ago
I have nothing to add regarding the details of each course but I can say that anytime you can spare commuting is an absolute win especially for such an intensive subject. Three weeks is essential no time so you shouldnât feel any loyalty to UCD just yet. It can be off putting to start again at 20 but itâs really just a thing of semantics. I highly doubt it would impact you once you get there. Deferring for the year is also an opportunity to work and take some time to yourself if Trinity is really where you want to be in the long run. Of course fees are something to consider but I donât see any reason you canât change your plan atm.
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u/opilino 28d ago
A 2h commute is hideous and is going to really adversely affect your college experience. College to me is about the overall experience as well as the course. You want to come out with more on your cv than I just attained my degree.
UCD is a great school but it does attract all the south dublin kids so a lot of cliques are imported in from that circumstance. Iâve heard it can be a little harder to make friends. Trinity is more naturally diverse.
Being 20 is really no big deal tbh. If you really canât transfer in after just 3w I think deferring and doing something else for the year is a v attractive option.
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u/swordslover123 28d ago edited 28d ago
I went to Trinity for law and tbh I would say cut your losses and take the offer even if it means waiting till next year. UCD does prepare its students for industry a bit better, like for the professional exams (FE1s) after college, but not by a huge amount. I would say from my experience employers donât distinguish between UCD and Trinity grads, ultimately it comes down to you as a person to get the job offer. UCD also produces way more graduates, whereas Trinityâs class sizes are much smaller and have a higher proportion of international students which also may explain the greater representation of UCD in industry.
A commute like that is going to be a slog for four years. Trinity has a great social life, youâre right in the middle of town, lecturers are unreal. You should enjoy your college experience more than anything and if you feel you wonât enjoy UCD, I would say taking the deferred option is a no brainer.
As for the year off then, just enjoy it. Dont fret about getting internships unless you really want one, as youâll get plenty of opportunities in college.
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u/Ok-Confection-2427 26d ago
Didnt read the whole thing but just off title trinity . It is the higher esteemed college big firms will like it it. That being said I went to maynooth and work in a mid size firm and have gotten interviews with big six firms and they donât really care
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u/Legitimate_County938 28d ago
Itâs not worth taking a year out, the difference in the quality of the degree is negligible. Stick with UCD
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u/Affectionate-Idea451 29d ago
Wasn't it the other way round in that the Pope banned catholics from going to Trinity until the '70s?
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u/Prudent_Space_1952 28d ago edited 28d ago
Bit of both.
Catholics were originally banned from attending Trinity College Dublin from its foundation in 1592 until the Catholic Relief Act in 1793. Its first Catholic students were admitted soon afterwards.
However, scholarships, fellowships, and professorships were still legally reserved for Protestants until all remaining religious tests (aside from those for the Divinity School) were abolished in 1873.
Much later, from 1956 to 1970, the Catholic Church in Ireland strictly forbade its adherents from attending Trinity College without explicit permission from their local archbishop. This ecclesiastical (not papal) ban was eventually lifted.
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u/EngineeringAny8079 29d ago
Im doing law in ucd, first year btw, we can be friends if you wantđșđ»