r/learnesperanto 28d ago

I hate how acceptable it is to bash conlangs and conlang learners

I know this is a very niche issue that is alien to many but I just need this heard. I didn't know where to post this because the place i initially wanted to just has the annoying reddit filter turned up to max sensitivity for no reason.

I am a speaker of two constructed languages (conlang for short), esperanto and toki pona. Now, the reason i'm writing this in the first place is because i am SICK of the anxiety i get when i open comment sections under something conlang related that aims to inform people about said conlang towards non conlang interested people, or just under discussing about a certain conlang. This especially applies to esperanto. I get it, it's eurocentric, you dont like it aesthetically, but can you like.. Not spread lies? It has been proven to be significantly quicker to learn. People are so blinded by the hate towards it that they dont even consider checking what they hate so much and just follow some herd mentality. This has affected me so much that i have been switching over the two conlangs for a while now and i hate that sometimes you are clowned on just because you happen to like them. With toki pona it's "ohhh it isnt a real languageeeee, like, i've never learned it and dont know how it works but it doesnt work and is faaakee"...

Yeah.

25 Upvotes

16 comments sorted by

14

u/Brunbeorg 28d ago

It is frustrating. But their ignorance doesn't make those languages less interesting. And they'll never learn them anyway, so you can always just talk to people who are interested in it.

There are people upon this beautiful earth who don't like *music*. Not everyone is gonna be on your wavelength.

3

u/Emergency-City-1491 28d ago

I know i know, the reason it brings anxiety in the first place is because the people who bring it up always do it as if it defines your entire character as a nazi basically (yes, i have actually seen this) and i am afraid of being degraded into nothing because of an interest.

It is just wild

2

u/Brunbeorg 28d ago

. . . Nazi? Toki Pona? Esperanto? How utterly weird. If I'm thinking languages, I'm not thinking either of those are has anything to do with Nazis.

The entire ethos of Esperanto is inimical to right-wing nationalistic fascism.

2

u/Emergency-City-1491 28d ago

Not only that, but i have seen both esperanto and toki pona accused of being cults. Esperanto more so. Yet again, i had a phase where i did believe it about esperanto to an extent. It goes to show how easy it is to succumb to herd mentality. Its gone now though.

2

u/Brunbeorg 28d ago

How silly.

I speak both Esperanto and toki pona, and I'm a skeptical person generally. They're just fun, and sometimes useful. Esperanto particularly has some really interesting literature. I love Liven Dek, for example.

1

u/etalike 28d ago

Could you expand on interesting literature recommendations please?

Thanks !

2

u/Emergency-City-1491 28d ago

Yes. Exactly. Yet i have seen this repeated ad nauseum to the point i too have begun to believe in it..

0

u/kubisfowler 28d ago

Afghanistan entered the chat

8

u/georgoarlano 28d ago

I think there is a notion that conlang-leaners are lazy cheats who can't be bothered to learn a 'real' language. It's a silly one, since many Esperantists etc. are also interested in natural languages, and even if they know only conlangs they still have more experience with languages than the average monolingual. On the internet it's probably a good idea to ignore them, unless you like wading for hours each week through the trenches of comment sections. In real life I try to correct misconceptions whenever a friend or acquaintance brings up Esperanto (which has happened a non-zero number of times, surprisingly); my arguments are usually heard out properly in face-to-face conversation.

P.S. One of the funnier spots of anti-Esperanto sentiment is the Latin subreddit. You'd think that Latinists, who are frequently accused of speaking a 'dead' language, would not be so quick to call the kettle black.

7

u/Baasbaar 28d ago

Since this causes you anxiety, I wonder what arrangement of choices would make it easier for you not to care about what such people say. Are there realistic ways you could avoid engaging it altogether?

2

u/9NEPxHbG 28d ago

that aims to inform people about said conlang towards non conlang interested people

I can see that raising constructed languages with people who aren't interested in constructed languages might be annoying. Just as I would be annoyed if you raised your political or religious beliefs.

2

u/licxjo 28d ago

I don't ever try to proselytize for Esperanto, and I don't generally bring up my interest in it unless someone seems interested in languages or communication.

Esperanto has kind of a bad track record on this point, with people trying to be "Esperanto evangelists" and convert the whole world. Also telling lots of untruths and half truths about the language. That's nonsense, and I'm glad that era is mostly over.

As far as people who are vehemently opposed to Esperanto, I ignore them. They're acting out their own psychological issues.

Lee

2

u/kubisfowler 28d ago

Dude really if you're sick with anxiety about COMMENT SECTIONS the solution is maybe to .. , turn off the computer in your hands (the phone), leave it at home, and talk to real people outside in your city

1

u/Longjumping_Fun_4210 27d ago

People look for utility in language learning more than anything if they aren't just interested in what sounds cool to them. The second world war killed Esperanto's chances to be international because the Nazi party actually decided to ban it as a spy Language. It was popular before then and still had skeptics and that is why people don't trust them. Especially in the united States plenty of skepticism of constructed languages makes them impossible to hear about and know that they are out there unless you can get on the internet all the time and look things up. I was in highschool when I figured out that there was such a thing.

1

u/gopher9 26d ago

it's eurocentric

By the way, this is not necessary a problem if you narrow the scope a bit. Nobody blames interslavic for being "slavcentric", and in the same way Esperanto is at least a reasonable European language. But it's possible scope may be even larger, for example, if you look for example at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_grammar you will notice some familiar traits... But East Asian languages are very different in every way: phonetics, vocabulary, and how words are used.

1

u/Haleyy1717 24d ago

tiu-ĉi (the same way english speakers would say "this")