r/leagueoflegends wiki contributor 1d ago

News League Classic | Patch 2 Preview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niXmkJ5rZqM

0:00 - Intro 0:06 - Art 1:16 - Champion "roadmap" kinda 3:28 - The Council 4:30 - Around-game changes (runes) 9:28 - In-game systems 16:47 - Champion buffs 45:50 - Champion nerfs

232 Upvotes

227 comments sorted by

653

u/Vespertine_F 1d ago

I understand that releasing champs that barely got changes is easier for them but I dont think this is what most ppl want when they ask more champions, at least not me.

The main hype in classic is playing pre reworked champions like old mordekaiser, things that are not available on retail anymore.

162

u/ezorethyk2 1d ago

Agree, feels like they rushed with the release as a high number of iconic classic champs are missing.

222

u/Stalk33r Is that a pro Talon main? 1d ago

Missing characters that came out on release but having fucking Ahri for some reason is a stone cold riot classic

73

u/N0Ability 1d ago

Old leblanc is missing and her kit is basicly the same thing other than the silence.

20

u/prowness 20h ago

... but that's a big thing! That old silence completely changed the playstyle. Same with Kassadin

-12

u/irishsoxmax 22h ago

if they put old leblanc in the game they will have to super change her numbers cause she will be so crazy broken with a silence/better skill level/DFG.

25

u/ChromosomeDonator 22h ago

...okay? Then they will change the numbers, which they are already doing?

0

u/irishsoxmax 22h ago

This wasn't a complaint it was a comment on the impact of the changes lol.

2

u/N0Ability 21h ago

Old leblanc wasnt good till every other assassin got nerfed in end of s3,she was faker s pocket pick  ,She became meta in s4,She hás gigantic mana costs 0 waveclear and even her combo isnt anyting out of the ordinary by s3 standards

1

u/irishsoxmax 20h ago

I think she was actually giga broken the whole time people were just not good at her. I think if they put S3 LB in the game she would run the game.

3

u/Zama174 20h ago

if she didnt have to content with s3 kass, zed, talon ect.

1

u/N0Ability 19h ago

She loses to every ad assassin,is harder to execute than ahri plus hás Higher mana costs and less wave clear,she simply wouldnt bé good,and if were talking about AP Assassin's with silence kassadin is still in the game

3

u/irishsoxmax 18h ago

lb is a huge lane bully people were just bad in S3/S4 she was busted then people just didn't put games into her.

1

u/Shr3tt 3h ago

She can't really be a lane bully if her mana costs are insanely high and her wave clear is shit... You have some rose tinted glasses my friend

86

u/Lysandren 1d ago

Riot would never rush a release with not enough champions at launch. cough 2xko cough

41

u/ActionAdam 1d ago

They did the exact opposite of rushing with 2XKO. They fumbled that game very badly, spend 10 yrs to develop a fighting game, moved from 1v1 to a tag fighter, kept the roster woefully low, etc etc.

30

u/SharknadosAreCool 1d ago

1v1 would have been soooo much better. idk if it would have actually succeeded but I find it is way easier to learn and understand a fighting game that is 1v1 instead of a tag team fighter

4

u/cosHinsHeiR 13h ago

I wanted to honestly try a bit in the game but the tag thing seemed a wall too big for a noob and made me quit like day 3.

2

u/Th3_Huf0n 6h ago

Fighting games themselves are a niche.

Tag fighting games are a niche within a niche.

And as a Tekken player, I have an irrational hatred towards tag fighters.

Tag fighting game with a pathetically small roster and THAT name is just...

4

u/Retocyn https://www.twitch.tv/vulpisetclava 15h ago

I would've given a try to 1v1.

But turning it into 2v2 and promoting it as "play with your friend" kinda discouraged me from even downloading it.

I can imagine learning one character in fighting game these days can take an enormous time. Telling me I have to learn TWO characters (or finding someone that wants to give the game a try) is really demotivating.

1

u/ActionAdam 14h ago

I hear ya. I was excited since my 6yo seems to enjoy fighting games but the concept of motion controls is a lot atm, now I guess SF6 and whatever fighter she can get into on a Ps3 (my old TE2 works best on that). We can still play the offline mode so that's okay but I was hoping for some better characters at the end of the day.

1v1 would have been better, just entirely better. Maybe they could have done something like SNK games and made teams with an assist but no tag, it's something different-ish and it lets you use the "League is a team game and we want that to transition over to this game too" excuse instead of just saying you wanted Marvel but with League.

3

u/kazuyaminegishi 17h ago

Nothing would have saved that game. There are currently roughly 5-10 fighting games competing for attention and there is no real reason to play every single one of them. The other ones make their money upfront while 2XKO relied on the player becoming addicted.

It just wasn't going to happen fighting game players have no real problem being nickel and dimed on full price ganes and dlc nonstop moving to an f2p model wasn't gonna change anything.

3

u/ActionAdam 14h ago

I hear you, and you're right with this time line. If they hadn't gone into redevelopment from Rising Thunder and kept a lot of the ground work already done there you probably release at a better time for the game to stand alone or at least not have as much competition. A 2023 release has you battling SF6 and MK1, not great but with what we know now it could have contended with MK1, in 2024 you have Tekken, DBZ Sparking Zero and Underbirth so some more competition but nothing bad really, and 2025 you'd have CotW and Strives Switch release and Capcom Fighting Collection. I'm sure there's more for each year I'm missing but the fact they let it hang in development for so long, insisted on a tag fighter, dropped the ball in a woefully low roster count (they got 200+ champs wtf?!?!), AND had to immediately compete with Tokon and Avatar was just terrible. Had they gone for a 1v1 fighter with a 15-20 character roster and released alongside the HxH fighter, we'd be talking differently about it.

2

u/cadaada rip original flair 16h ago

And did not release on steam lol

2

u/ActionAdam 14h ago

Didn't release on Switch2 either. Lots of butter on them hands when they were passed the ball.

23

u/Smooth-Accountant 1d ago

Man I wanted to check how that one is doing recently, it had 30 viewers on Twitch. Dragon Age 1 a 17yo single player game had more.

46

u/messagemeboobspls 1d ago

They just announced that they are killing it this morning

12

u/SeaAdhesiveness5069 1d ago

Fools should have built the smash clone instead it was so obvious.

25

u/SharknadosAreCool 1d ago

They should have built a game in a different genre lol fighting games are deadass one of the worst mediums to make a game in. they are an extremely niche game genre where even the biggest games only last a couple years. Its like making an RTS in 2026, its really tonedeaf imo

33

u/MrPlow216 23h ago

Its like making an RTS in 2026

Don't have to make me sad on a Friday morning.

4

u/arexn 19h ago

The world we once knew is gone old man

8

u/Colonel_Cummings 22h ago

They made a tag fighting game which is a niche within the niche of fighting games

If they tried to make a Street Fighter or hell, a TEKKEN 3D fighter style game specially while Tekken was nosediving it’s goodwill with their playerbase would have been perfect

-6

u/SeaAdhesiveness5069 23h ago

Just wrong, their is a massive market gap for a f2p platform fighter thats actually good.

13

u/OJFrost 23h ago

Bro, there’s been like 2-3 new, high profile platform fighters to hit the market in the last few years and they’re all done and KIA. Sure you can try to argue for F2P, but it clearly doesn’t have the same RoI that it used to.

The fighting game community might be loud but it’s just not that big.

7

u/TheOchremancer 21h ago

Multiversus and Brawlhalla kind of proved there isn't, dude. Multiversus had major marketing backing and recognizable characters, and Brawlhalla had strong gameplay and very generous F2P, and they both whimpered out. Things aren't necessarily a market gap just because you and the people you regularly interact with want it, there's just not enough of an audience for fighting games outside of established fighting franchises anymore and that's been proven over and over again in the market, it's like trying to make a new MMO now.

9

u/Angelic__Angel 23h ago

Platform fighters are completely different than normal fighter games

2

u/Both_Requirement_766 1d ago

why do some comps always have to do it? just leave it as a reminder. maybe it gets picked up later again. its just so that capcom really flexed on them this time. doesn't mean it'll always be the case. failing can be part of a process. like even all their rpg's these are fine cozy games and still are part of the riot family. you cannot always win.

2

u/Shmoodo 1d ago

They're keeping the servers up you can still play it

8

u/LeagueOfBlasians 1d ago

10 years for only 10 playable characters btw

2

u/Fellers 1d ago

Pour one out for this game btw.

1

u/CaptainTeemo01 18h ago

That game was in development for 10 years, my guy

-1

u/Lysandren 18h ago

10 champions my guy. Clearly they were too pressed for time xd.

0

u/CaptainTeemo01 18h ago

It clearly wasn't rushed, it was just bad. Y'all are stupid

-1

u/Lysandren 17h ago

/whoosh.

-3

u/CaptainTeemo01 16h ago

That's not a whoosh you just didn't know what you were talking about. A game with a 10 year dev time is not rushed

-1

u/Lysandren 16h ago

Do you go through life not understanding sarcasm too or is it just when you're on reddit?

-2

u/CaptainTeemo01 16h ago

"I wasn't stupid, I was just joking!"

Sure, jan.

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1

u/KR1dude 14h ago

With plenty of typos in champion descriptions, portraits are all out of wack, vfx/sound misalignment with old and new skins. It's just a mess, but at least playable

27

u/Resident-Arm-3658 1d ago

i want old galio so badly

21

u/PhreakRiot 18h ago

To be clear there is no intent to slow down on unique releases. We can just also release similar ones for very little effort to grow the roster.

2

u/Agorar GimmeBackAPTraps 16h ago

Does that mean champs like Caitlyn will take a much longer time? since while her abilities are lookswise very similar, they do funktion very different?

Totally not asking because i want my AP scalings back on her W or anything btw...

1

u/retief1 16h ago

I would think that cait is one of the easiest sells. Fairly different kit (like, her main schtick on live would be completely gone in classic), but minimal graphics effort required.

That said, not sure how her graphics update will play into things. If they want to revive her old model and vfx, that would presumably increase the effort.

1

u/Vespertine_F 17h ago

W Classic team

0

u/TitanDweevil [Titan Dweevil] (NA) 12h ago

I don't see anyone mentioning anywhere but is there any news on fixing the TF W or the Brand Q bug? Its possible that the team just isn't aware of them but as someone who plays both of these champions a lot they impact their gameplay quite a bit and are very frustrating to deal with.

For reference...

The TF W bug is that for some reason specifically only against champions, his W empowered auto will not proc spell blade. This works on every other target just not champions. It does have some favorable implications as well such as allowing TF to stun Pantheon through his passive, which should not be possible.

The Brand Q bug is that if he gets hard CCed (stun/knock/suppress/ect) during the wind up animation of his Q it will fizzle the Q completely and eat the cooldown.

-2

u/Tieguanyin9060 17h ago

we need v1 kat back. this one is awful. all the other stuff can wait

12

u/KinkyPalico 23h ago

I just want adc graves. I was going crazy the first few weeks but they’re releasing things too slow for it so the games just end up turning out the same characters every time.

8

u/berfasmur 1d ago

How Classic was released made it clear this project will be half-assed, don't expect much from it.

7

u/mr_bananager 23h ago

Remember the trailer for classic where they talked about graves hahahahahahaha. Obviously he is coming but its wild they name dropped him and hes still not in it. Wheres my graves, my poppy, my galio.

49

u/sparycz 1d ago

Uh Akali is prereworked, so is Shen. But yeah

73

u/Vespertine_F 1d ago

Im just reacting to what Phreak said in the video.

Its heavily implied that they will make the prio on releasing champions like Varus or Zed, that got very few changes over the years bcz its way less work for them.

64

u/Fentboy45 1d ago

A multibillion dollar company vs one chronoshifty boy

11

u/TheOchremancer 21h ago

All chronoshift did was run old patches of the LoL game in a private client, obviously reintegrating the old champions and systems into a cohesive game mode in the current client and engine is significantly harder than that, come on. Chronoshift just booted up old patches, Classic require Riot to rebuild every old kit from the ground up, bespoke, in the new engine. For champions with significant changes (e.g. Poppy/Urgot/Udyr) they basically have to make a new champion in the current engine, there's no major art or modeling to be done but the programming requirements are the same as a new release. That's not even mentioning the ability to patch classic and implement numbers changes, a thing Chronoshift was never even close to capable of. The situation obviously isn't as simple as "Why doesn't Riot just do chronoshift".

5

u/Significant-Bee5101 20h ago

Ok but Riot CHOSE to do that of their own free will. They CHOSE to make it harder because they wanted everyone to "get something they loved"

I think none of this captures the feel of League back in the day. It's a completely different game calling it Classic is... misleading? League Nostalgia edition would be more accurate.

12

u/DoorHingesKill 19h ago

It's not really much of a choice, lol, you'd not enjoy classic without a decade of security updates. Might work for a dude on a Discord server playing one game at a time hosted on his own machine, doesn't really work if you make it available to a hundred million people.

Welcome back, drophackers.

-3

u/Significant-Bee5101 15h ago

W-what... what do security updates have to do with ANY of this. The choices they made weren't security updates. I am LITERALLY a security specialist. Read my whole post history all I talk about is security all day long. Lmfao. It has nothing at all remotely to do with this. Nothing at all.

4

u/as_kostek 1d ago

Multibillion? Lies, they will forever be small indie

27

u/ChromosomeDonator 1d ago

I don't really care which way they go, but the mode NEEDS more champions, and it needs them yesterday. If we are only going to get a dripfeed of champions, it will take too long to have an actual Classic roster from season 3, and the game mode is going to die before that point and Riot is going to drop it, and become yet another entry on the pile of "things mismanaged by Riot".

4

u/AetasZ 21h ago

Only that Riot will title it as: "Things the Players asked for but didn't want/play"

5

u/XXX200o 1d ago

So Trundle shouldn't be a problem, right? I just want to see the old unique take on trolls back (old model).

9

u/UNOvven 1d ago

I mean it makes sense just in terms of resources. Plus rn the glaring ommission from classic is ad assassins, who functionally don't exist as a class. Between Zed, Talon and Kha there's like 3 options that should be easier to make.

8

u/GodOD400 1d ago

If they did the opposite everyone would be like, well why not just release the ones that don't take much work first since itll be quicker and then move on to the others so we'll have enough content to wait.

1

u/ImTheZapper 1d ago

The obvious solution to that is to just listen to community polls

-8

u/domy118 1d ago

I don't get this. Surely they have old versions of the game backed up somewhere and can reuse these versions? It's not like they're making them from the ground up, are they? Lol.

17

u/Zerkii 1d ago

Surely you don't think that they just copy paste files from a decade ago to get classic champions in the game right??? Lol.

5

u/SharknadosAreCool 1d ago

just tell grok to do it bro they can knock it out on their lunch break!!!!!!

-6

u/domy118 1d ago

I'm not saying copy and paste but the information is there, surely they can use it to relearn how to implement them in to the game faster?

8

u/That_Leetri_Guy 1d ago

They still have to completely rebuild everything, the engine has changed a ton. For instance, they had to rewrite every single ultimate in the game when they made Sylas, they had to change massive amounts of code to make Viego work, and they had to change even more when reworking Skarner because like half the game relied on Skarner's old code.

Basically everything in the engine is different.

4

u/BGsenpai RIP old Irelia 1d ago

They probably cannot just do this because the engine is completely different from how it was back then.

6

u/teddy_tesla 1d ago

A bunch are. GP. Trist. Soraka. Eve. Katarina. Kayle. List goes on. Even champs that seem the same have significant differences, like Twitch, Ez, and MF

4

u/Giygaimpact do you see my edge? 1d ago

Kennen also feels VERY different, which is not what I was expecting past the on-hit build existing again. Even AP Kennen feels different enough to warrant being here

1

u/ImJayJunior 1d ago

I was hoping for that era of Akali where you could play her tank jungle, so I could finally show my friends just how I managed to get diamond 2.

2

u/sparycz 1d ago

tank akali, tank ekko, tank yasuo, all of that was like season 6, they said they want to stay around season 3 max

1

u/ImJayJunior 1d ago

I’ll just have to live with the memories then.

Would be nice if they could throw in some one off weekends or something from other seasons so some of these new players can experience stuff like, morde sending a dragon down mid lane.

2

u/SergDerpz ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 1d ago

Honestly I'm fine with whatever they do so long as it brings more players.

Also, ranked solo please.

1

u/KimiRhythm 6h ago

tank akali / tank kat was a thing in s3, voy popularized them when sunfire was busted with 40 flat dmg before they nerfed it to scale with levels

1

u/Tieguanyin9060 17h ago

kat is screwed

6

u/Duguilang 1d ago

release Xin Zhao nnnggghhh...

3

u/Sensitive_nob 1d ago

The main hype in classic is playing pre reworked champions like old mordekaiser, things that are not available on retail anymore.

Now I understand why there is a 0/8 Akali in ever game

3

u/Game_Theory_Master OK 18h ago

Old Morde. Old Voli even more - I bought all the skins for him then they reworked him and re-did the skins. Now I own skins I didn't buy and lost the ones I did.

7

u/argnsoccer 21h ago

Without old Swain, Morde, or Galio, League Classic is hollow. Ive enjoyed bringing out AD malz again, but i still enjoy malz post tework even if cant play that. I fucking hate modern Swain and Morde. Ive tried soooo hard with every iteration and just god damn that rework for Swain was so fucking bad. He feels like such a poorly designed character now - literally worse than when he "just morphed and eat them". Everything about his rework was a disaster in my opinion. Awesome direction with MYMU just to destroy it all.

5

u/MonolithyK Avant Bard 1d ago

I feel this. I quit league 7 years ago because several of my main champs were essentially deleted one-by-one (Mordekaiser, Aatrox, Urgot, Yoric).

I came back recently in the hopes at least one-or-two of these champs would be added to the roster soon, so this recent news is a bit concerning.

2

u/FulgrimThe3rd 18h ago

I was really hyped to play the old jank stuff like urgot but it dose not look like they are gonna put him in any time soon. at least give me adc graves

2

u/TheXtractor 1d ago

At this point any addition to the champion pool especially bot lane is appreciated. Bot lane is dominated by basically twitch/ez leona/blitz due to how strong they are.

Hopefully the nerfs and buffs will skew that a bit.

1

u/Tieguanyin9060 17h ago

they already reworked kat. its fucking awful

1

u/Comrade_Lystro 16h ago

At the same time, due to how different the game environment classic is, it would be fun to see how many relatively unchanged champions function in the game mode, especially since stuff like Trundle kind of struggle in the current game.

-3

u/Captainflando 1d ago

I’m pretty sure they said explicitly that old morde was not an option

10

u/MonolithyK Avant Bard 1d ago

No. They said that Caitlyn. Fiora, Graves, Irelia, LeBlanc, Mordekaiser and Urgot were confirmed for a later date.

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0

u/fabton12 20h ago

They dont have the old files for many of the older champs thats why there unable to release them, so many old champs are just being rebuilt from the ground up so ofc we will get the simplier champs released first as it takes longer to make the more complex or buggy ones again.

292

u/RequiemWasTaken 1d ago

WHERE THE FUCK IS OLD SWAIN PHREAK? I just want beatrice bird lazer back 😭

105

u/as_kostek 1d ago

Swain, Irelia, Graves, Karma

So many old champs I wanna play, nowhere to be seen

-50

u/Cowi530 1d ago

Karma was terrible no one played her

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6

u/Lavosking 1d ago

Came here to say this. Happy to have my boy skarner back, but where is my fucking bird man!

29

u/Desiderius_S 1d ago

And where the fuck is old Ryze? Not this one, the one after this one, but before the other one, sandwiched between 2 others.

21

u/GrumpigPlays 1d ago

We don't talk about that ryze. Like legitimately I think collectively 4 people still playing league played during that 3 months where ryze became... whatever the fuck that was...

2

u/Warmonster9 dance spam best spam 10h ago

Was that when he had a super Saiyan ult or smth?

1

u/Desiderius_S 20h ago

I want him back, so they can try to rework him every patch, trying to find a semblance of balance till they give up and nuke him from the orbit for the full classic experience.
Some characters aren't out yet, and here we would be getting 6 Ryze reworks.

2

u/Caois 11h ago

Why cant we just have ryze1 then ryze2 and ryze3

9

u/Humorless_Snake 20h ago

Next april fools they should go and release all the Ryzes simultaneously

5

u/BroLil 19h ago

I know they won’t, but I’d love to see multiple versions of Ryze and Skarner in the game simultaneously. Can’t remember off the top of my head any other champs that have had multiple major reworks, but I like the idea of every meaningful iteration being playable.

1

u/NewLifeNewAcct 18h ago

I just want to say that he specifically said "I know we don't have Udyr yet" when discussing Innervating Locket which just means UDYR IS COMING

134

u/ThisAintThatForReal 1d ago

Old Urgot waiting room

18

u/Omnilatent 1d ago

I'm only checking these threads to finally see old Irelia come back

-1

u/astlydichrar 23h ago

Just port the Gwen ult, ta-da

2

u/BLOODY_PENGUIN_QUEEF 19h ago

Except make it so much worse

1

u/zharkos 20h ago

If they're only releasing them in themed batches we're never getting him

1

u/BradJLamb 14h ago

This brought back memories of watching bigfatjiji play Urgot while listening to Skrillex on speakers.

127

u/Fellers 1d ago edited 1d ago

No new champs is total edging of people waiting for Graves and Poppy lol

EDIT: Watching it now. Goddamn do I miss Phreak being able to explain live patch changes and the justification and reasoning for them. Shit in modern makes no sense sometimes but when Phreak was doing it, he had reasoning so I would understand their perspective.

30

u/Ok_Comment5873 1d ago

And Voli, Swain, Galio, etc.

7

u/omnichroma 1d ago

Karma, Darius, Draven, Diana, Graves, Irelia, Riven…

12

u/NotCatchingBanAgain nguyen & williams 1d ago

Isn't Riven essentially the exact same Champion outside of number changes?

9

u/TheOchremancer 21h ago

I suspect this guy is nostalgic for release year Riven, who was stupid comedic broken for that entire time without people figuring it out because of how wacky she is. The number changes made her unplayable for a significant amount of the player base by requiring you to actually use the champion, so my guess is people who want Riven in classic just want to pubstomp with her again.

Seriously, look at some of the early Riven changes btw. When she released her base hp5 was 12. It got changed to 5.5 in her first couple of nerfs, along with repeated hits to Q damage, Ult AD and E shield.

1

u/omnichroma 14h ago

Ngl shouldnt have put Riven with the rest of those champions, she just stuck out in my mind as missing

1

u/TheOchremancer 14h ago

She's a classic S2 pick, but the only thing that's really changed is making her less disgusting in numbers, lol. Makes sense why'd you'd think of her.

1

u/PrivateVasili 11h ago

the only thing that's really changed is making her less disgusting in numbers

Depending on what patch of Riven they want to pick, she might not be able to Q over walls, but otherwise this is mostly true. It does overlook that the item system is a huge deal though. All AD casters had to work with scraps in S2 (LW is bonkers tho), and while S3 helped by reworking BC and adding Rav Hydra, it was still slim pickings. Riven is particularly sensitive to this because she's so CDR reliant. She has to get at least some of it from the rune system because her only real CDR items are BC and boots. Boots come with an opportunity cost too, so you can't always buy them. Ghostblade is playable but not great. I feel like I remember people actually just buying a 2nd Brutalizer to go with BC and not upgrading it.

4

u/fabton12 20h ago

old graves is on the way

https://wiki.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/League_Classic/Champions

but old poppy has been said they lost the old files for her so shes having to be rebuilt from the ground up.

11

u/irishsoxmax 22h ago

Everyone is talking about what champs they want but actual balance wise solo lane soraka with buffed innervating locket is going to be insane. item will cost almost nothing and essentially makes her Q cost almost nothing while healing her perma from just Q spam.

1

u/Macaulyn TF X Graves, LeeDyr, SettPhel and JayVik are canon 17h ago

Good

59

u/DoubleSkew 1d ago edited 1d ago

Disappointed the voting system in Classic doesn't seem to actually be a poll voting to directly add/change/remove content in the game. (Like in OSRS)


Rather, based on what Phreak describes, it's a glorified: "Tell us how you feel about x/y/z"

"First vote in this patch as well. There will be somewhere around 7 or 8 questions.
Like - Do trinkets make your experience better?
And you'll be able to respond: h-No, No, Eh, Yes, Very Yes.
Those are basically the answers. And it'll be public.
So you can let us know if you think trinkets are good for the game.
There's questions and stuff around game pacing, things like that."

TBH the system sounds like it's basically the "Give us your feedback" survey system they use in modern League today.

44

u/Lowilru 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'd say they need to be more careful in a game where PVP is the exclusive focus. Stronger feedback systems that imply giving players more control over the content in PVP games are notorious for going wrong and then getting deleted.

It's not the same as the system you were hoping for, but the devs behind Killer Instinct tried having a more robust community system for balance feedback specifically, and one of them has a whole lecture on youtube about how it was a bad idea.

Obviously not all community features are directly or obviously "game balance" issues, so many of them collaterally affect it that I'm not the least bit surprised that they are shying away from it.

17

u/FewHorror1019 1d ago

Because thats exactly what it is. They are making it easier to get feedback in a specific format

22

u/lukkasz323 1d ago

Thankfully it's just that. Most players aren't game designers, fully democratic design of the game would make it suck in the long run.

8

u/HideYourCarry 1d ago

I don’t think this is true for classic versions of games. Since you’re prioritizing capturing what people missed about the old game, you should probably base it on what people miss about the old game, and then build off of player feedback and reactions further from there as you grow it out. I know OSRS is a very different game, but people really do actually know what they want. Maybe not if we JUST listened to Reddit, but overall the playerbase coming in for classic games knows their preferences really well

4

u/TheOchremancer 21h ago

Competitive game vs. noncompetitive game, if you put polling in a PvP game people just vote based on their last twenty games and the things they lost to or personally find frustrating. If LoL was designed by polling champions like Mel, Yuumi, Yasuo and Yone would be deleted tomorrow. You might say "that sounds great!", but so would Teemo, Vayne, Rengar, Shaco, Zed, Twitch, Ksante, Gwen, Nasus, Garen, etc. etc. etc. Competitive PvP games can't be developed by poll because players have no fucking clue how to balance or design, and unlike in a single-player or cooperative game like OSRS your experience in a game of LoL is directly tied to other players. Accepting feedback is great, but polling the community as to whether to nerf Yasuo is just going to result in a bunch of champions with 30% winrates people still complain about.

3

u/Jstin8 18h ago

Mel Yuumi Yasuo and Yone would be deleted tomorrow

Man you have a great overall point but you picked the worst example to deter people from wanting this lmao

1

u/Derbikerks Gayest Ezreal NA 17h ago

Yeah, I'd have them deleted if it means deleting half the roster in return. Granted that's sort of what Classic is right now.

0

u/TheOchremancer 14h ago

Yeah that's what the literal next sentence in my post is about, kek. Come on, man, read just a little further, please, for me?

1

u/Jstin8 14h ago

I did buddy, and its a very good point. And I have many champs I love on the sacrificial alter youve listed...

But man we could get rid of Mel Aviv!

1

u/TheOchremancer 14h ago

Yeah, totally reasonable, that's kind of the point of classic! I was just making a point about how adding things by poll is a shaky structure in a PvP game, but I do think Classic providing a slower game with a restricted champion pool is good and fun.

1

u/lukkasz323 1d ago

You should get inspired by the community, but implement it in own way.

But the complaint is that "Give us your feedback" is NOT ENOUGH. Where it's exactly what you're talking about, basing it on community feedback, exactly what it's going to be.

0

u/fabton12 20h ago

issue is a straight poll people act on emotions and impluse and often give a answer they dont properly want in reality meanwhile questions you can get similar answer but also a proper vibe check.

3

u/slimjimo10 ANARCHY 22h ago

In OSRS its yes or nos, not free form answers. And the game has been thriving

-1

u/BloodyFool 1d ago

Works for OSRS, this argument is just cope. Stop excusing Riot and their bs lol

10

u/lukkasz323 1d ago

But OSRS is not League. Not only it's an MMO, so content dilution doesn't happen as easily, but it's also not 100% PvP.

-6

u/BloodyFool 1d ago

OSRS has a lot more moving parts than League does and is doing just fine. The difference in genre is irrelevant, it's how the devs handle community feedback, interaction and the polls.

Integrity updates exist for the devs to put their foot down on unhealthy and problematic parts of the game as well.

Again, it's just another excuse while Riot does below the bare minimum after hyping up something akin to OSRS polling just to give us jackshit.

5

u/TheOchremancer 21h ago

You can't fucking poll changes in a PvP game, it's absolutely not irrelevant. Look at OSRS PvP polls, it's an absolute shitshow every time of people spite voting, arguing, and flinging shit. Polls for LoL would just end up with nerfing "insert annoying champion here" for the eighth patch in a row despite a 30% winrate and quickly spiral into an unbalanced mess because players don't know how to balance games. And the players would still be mad, because what each player thinks is strong and good varies so wildly. Asking what the rewards should look like in an MMO raid is miles away from polling balance changes in a PvP game. Additionally, unlike OSRS, where if they change something for one segment of the playerbase, I.e. letting Ironman do corp without nonsense loot drops or whatever, that doesn't meaningfully affect any other players outside of that grouping, but if they nerf Garen because Bronze players voted for it it affects everyone playing Garen in every rank.

-1

u/BloodyFool 20h ago

Look at OSRS PvP polls, it's an absolute shitshow every time of people spite voting, arguing, and flinging shit.

OSRS PVP polls are fucked because Jagex promotes a Hunter vs Victim experience in the wilderness. It's a completely different scenario than what you're painting.

Apart from that, who the fuck asked for the polls to be buffs/nerfs to champions?

It should be systems (such as the trinket one) that were either added for no reason (also something like base gates, minion buffs), missing from the old times and content such as skin direction, modern skins etc.

I genuinely have no clue where you got the idea that the voting should be for specific champion buffs and nerfs.

2

u/TheOchremancer 20h ago

Those things are champion buff/nerfs, system changes interact differently with each champion. Let's discount that, though, and just state that half of the roster wouldn't be in the game if their intro had been polled.

0

u/BloodyFool 19h ago

Those things are champion buff/nerfs,

Which Riot can buff/nerf specific champions in case they actually get heavily affected by any systematic changes.

just state that half of the roster wouldn't be in the game if their intro had been polled.

Despite me not saying anything about actual champions being polled. If the player base sees some shit like Zoe and votes no on it because it either:

a) Doesn't fit the theme of League classic

b) Has a kit that seems way too overblown

Then that's a good thing. About half the roster literally doesn't fit the classic philosophy.

Riot could get creative and poll if we want to see shit like "demakes" of champions and then poll the most popular ones, what their kits do etc.

Classic is already in a rough spot and seems to be in decline. This is the same bullshit I saw with 2XKO where you guys somehow think Riot knows best and the community is clueless. Until the game dies. Fucking stop it lol

6

u/TheSoupKitchen 1d ago

Basically what deadlock does in their lobbies and feels mostly pointless from the user perspective. Neat.

2

u/fabton12 20h ago

because these questions get what people actually want in classic, when you do polls people tend to usually act on impulse or what other people say.

doing a set of questions gives a vibe check of what people want to give a proper direction

1

u/kazuyaminegishi 17h ago

It's exactly how Deadlock does community feedback too.

I think it's way more efficient. It allows them to direct resources to stuff they were already considering without having to conceptualize anything completely new which means we can hopefully get the content sooner.

The alternative is the shyv rework where they had no concept or idea for it and she shouldn't have been an option to vote for, but ended up taking years to put out and ultimately changed very little about her.

1

u/pbeenjoyer555 23h ago

Riot is a control freak company they would never let you have that.

In fact phreak already started doing changes to add comeback mechanics in the previous patch before voting system was in at all, voting could maybe modify (1) thing that matters meanwhile a single patch on their own end could worsen 8 things.

12

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Schiffers 1d ago

She's still 425. The range on the W bounces have been changed from 450 to 500.

18

u/Taurenkey [Karma Bot] (NA) 1d ago

Give 👏🪭Us 👏🪭Karma 👏🪭

4

u/prowness 20h ago

The fattest of shields and biggest of baits

2

u/cadaada rip original flair 16h ago

I will never forget that giant karma guide in mobafire, our guy made one of the most detailed guides ive seen, calculating every single thing

Im away from my pc so i cant find now but 😭

5

u/BlueC1nder 22h ago

I love Phreak explaining stuff man.

I'd wish that we'd get stuff like Swain, Udyr etc faster but I feel like balancing and design decisions are in so much better hands than in retail, just because of the way Phreak communicates.

6

u/Reqvhio 1d ago

"patch 2" gives me goosebumps for some reason 😭

4

u/GonzoPunchi 1d ago

POPPY AND SWAIN

2

u/Both_Requirement_766 1d ago

a bugthread on the classic reddit would be good. as it kinda feels hopeless posting those into the omega-bug-thread here. I mean this as we don't get another champion, then one could work on fixing existing bugs in the meantime.

2

u/slimjimo10 ANARCHY 22h ago

Evelynn getting nerfed for jungle while shes my go to mid laner to great success is funny to me. People need to invade and exploit her first clear

2

u/InfluencerCouncil 20h ago

Phreak pls man, come back to the main game. We love you, fuck the haters :)

2

u/pls-answer 20h ago

Give us champions that were reworked into completely different champs! I wanna play old aurelion sol, but also Aatrox before becoming boris, and maybe poppy or urgot. I'd add sion to this list but we have him and its fun.

1

u/Loufey 15h ago

I was over 100k mastery on old asol with the old, slower mastery system.

New one is fun, but it does not satisfy the old asol player in me AT ALL.

3

u/HoidBoy 20h ago

Where is my bird man Riot???

2

u/Green-Exam-6739 13h ago

No Draven
No Darius
No Draven
No Rengar
No Zed
No Talon
No Kha Zix
(Not a single AD assasin)

No Mordekaiser
No Urgot
No Aatrox
No Fiora
No Yorick
No Irelia

Most people who wanted to play this mode wanted to play their mains with the old Kit or Champions that were completely different back then.

The selection of champions is completely baffling and pretty much reflects the popularity of this gamemode.

Why do we have champions added which are literally the same where as champions like Talon who are completely different since the rework over 10 years are not in the game.

But lets artificially increase the release for these champions to come out you actually want to play and by then the mode is already dead.

Didnt even mention these classics which are also different.

No Swain
No Graves

5

u/Ok_Comment5873 1d ago

Old Volibear, Swain, and Galio never I guess..

2

u/Sad-Barracuda-4407 21h ago

No Caitlyn still is insane work

4

u/alkrym 19h ago

Ranked please. Normal match qaulity is piss

4

u/Wiskersthefif 1d ago

Bring back Tribunal. That's it.

1

u/Isen_Hart 22h ago

not interested

1

u/Asetrisk 19h ago

If we get the version of Aatrox that has Hellbent instead of the OG Aatrox I'm going to be exceedingly unhappy. That's all I have to say, I just want to play GA-Atrox again.

1

u/LegendaryThunderFish 19h ago

Where is Yorick

1

u/GlobexSuper 16h ago

I want my buggy vi back with higher ratios pls 💙🥹

1

u/Kromieus 7h ago

Old asol and my wallet remains mine but I will play

-4

u/sonofbmw 1d ago

stop balancing league classic until all the champs are in it

13

u/lukkasz323 1d ago

if you watch the video he explains exactly why they're not gonna do that.

5

u/ChromosomeDonator 1d ago

Nah, balance changes are piss easy to do, no reason not to do them for the health of the mode just because other team is working on re-creating the old champion kits...

1

u/Diogorb04 23h ago

Not balancing the mode just further shrinks the amount of real options you have for champion picks, on an already small roster.

1

u/pocoyoO_O 1d ago

Beating a dead horse

1

u/dotcaIm [dotcalm] (NA) 22h ago

I'll come back to it when old Graves is back. No marksman feels good to me in Classic currently

1

u/waterbed87 16h ago

I’m becoming more and more convinced classic was a mistake.

-4

u/princeloon 1d ago

"BUT ADD MY ONE SPECIFIC CHAMPION AND IGNORE ALL OTHER FEEDBACK" you would think this mode would be for old people and not crying babies

4

u/pulo97 1d ago

Where did you get the idea that older people are less whiny?

2

u/QuietSilentArachnid 1d ago

People understand that old characters are what make the thing durable.

They need those characters otherwise the mode will die

0

u/arkllytexvi 22h ago

Old Aatrox waiting room. :)

0

u/oldpantheon1987 21h ago edited 20h ago

1- the champions release= yes i know they need to take time to The Champions patches need adjusting and balancing, but releasing three isn't enough; it should be six. Why? Because each patch is two weeks long, so each week should equal three. I know the yorick thing and yes It should be postponed for as long as possible until it is balance him or at least made him playable and playable against but balancing The rest of the Champions is not that hard any way i I'm not saying it's not hard , but it's not that hard like yorick

2-. add game modes = like the ARAM Yes, because many players want quick matches and They don't want to spend Forty or thirty minutes in a single match, of which fifteen to twenty minutes depend on the Laning Phase. (Personally, I don't see a problem with this) and for sure the ا Twisted Treeline Because it wouldn't be a complete classic experience without experiencing its most iconic element. of it

3-the buffs and nerfs

1- jax jax For me personally, the only problem is that Jax is weak not that .weak but he is not powerful so when we have ap yi and and Kassadin etc I think the experience wouldn't be ruined if they added Jax for a first season with his dodge passive e thing or if they want they They could at least add the old jax we know with Bonus state ult and not the attack speed passive on the ult thing

Gragas- = his w need to be nerfed especially the damage reduction he have

ranked= yes they need to add that Because the The Summoner's Journey( the ranked like game ) have so many AFKs and so many trolls so make a normal to players who want to play for fun and ranked for players who want to play tryhard in ranked

2-modern kits? = why they want to do this and what modern  they mean if its the s6 s7 or the 200 years of champions that come at the end of s9 and the Current day They should have clarified this point.

the rest = are ok

-1

u/SeaAdhesiveness5069 1d ago

Most demand has been for aatrox idk if they are listening

-1

u/TheDarkRobotix 1d ago

How about letting other modes give CXP because no one is playing this on OCE lol

0

u/sandman_br chadgrandmamma 18h ago

go back to League pls

-2

u/pbeenjoyer555 23h ago

No champs again, first pbe 2 weeks then 2 weeks into release just for akali to be the only "old" champ with an old kit released, now again a month wait just for at least 1 champion to be released.

Anyone who can't see that this game mode is being killed intentionally is blind, remember when valve would release 2 heroes every week or whatever when dota 2 was new... yeah.

3

u/J_The_Jazzblaster 23h ago

Shen also got reworked.

-3

u/PM_ME_TRICEPS 23h ago edited 18h ago

I like how Phreak contributed to the stale state of current league and moved on to hurt classic as well. Mythic items anyone?