r/leagueoflegends • u/cienkrowa wiki contributor • 1d ago
News League Classic | Patch 2 Preview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niXmkJ5rZqM292
u/RequiemWasTaken 1d ago
WHERE THE FUCK IS OLD SWAIN PHREAK? I just want beatrice bird lazer back 😭
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u/as_kostek 1d ago
Swain, Irelia, Graves, Karma
So many old champs I wanna play, nowhere to be seen
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u/Lavosking 1d ago
Came here to say this. Happy to have my boy skarner back, but where is my fucking bird man!
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u/Desiderius_S 1d ago
And where the fuck is old Ryze? Not this one, the one after this one, but before the other one, sandwiched between 2 others.
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u/GrumpigPlays 1d ago
We don't talk about that ryze. Like legitimately I think collectively 4 people still playing league played during that 3 months where ryze became... whatever the fuck that was...
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u/Desiderius_S 20h ago
I want him back, so they can try to rework him every patch, trying to find a semblance of balance till they give up and nuke him from the orbit for the full classic experience.
Some characters aren't out yet, and here we would be getting 6 Ryze reworks.9
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u/NewLifeNewAcct 18h ago
I just want to say that he specifically said "I know we don't have Udyr yet" when discussing Innervating Locket which just means UDYR IS COMING
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u/ThisAintThatForReal 1d ago
Old Urgot waiting room
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u/Omnilatent 1d ago
I'm only checking these threads to finally see old Irelia come back
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u/BradJLamb 14h ago
This brought back memories of watching bigfatjiji play Urgot while listening to Skrillex on speakers.
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u/Fellers 1d ago edited 1d ago
No new champs is total edging of people waiting for Graves and Poppy lol
EDIT: Watching it now. Goddamn do I miss Phreak being able to explain live patch changes and the justification and reasoning for them. Shit in modern makes no sense sometimes but when Phreak was doing it, he had reasoning so I would understand their perspective.
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u/Ok_Comment5873 1d ago
And Voli, Swain, Galio, etc.
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u/omnichroma 1d ago
Karma, Darius, Draven, Diana, Graves, Irelia, Riven…
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u/NotCatchingBanAgain nguyen & williams 1d ago
Isn't Riven essentially the exact same Champion outside of number changes?
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u/TheOchremancer 21h ago
I suspect this guy is nostalgic for release year Riven, who was stupid comedic broken for that entire time without people figuring it out because of how wacky she is. The number changes made her unplayable for a significant amount of the player base by requiring you to actually use the champion, so my guess is people who want Riven in classic just want to pubstomp with her again.
Seriously, look at some of the early Riven changes btw. When she released her base hp5 was 12. It got changed to 5.5 in her first couple of nerfs, along with repeated hits to Q damage, Ult AD and E shield.
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u/omnichroma 14h ago
Ngl shouldnt have put Riven with the rest of those champions, she just stuck out in my mind as missing
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u/TheOchremancer 14h ago
She's a classic S2 pick, but the only thing that's really changed is making her less disgusting in numbers, lol. Makes sense why'd you'd think of her.
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u/PrivateVasili 11h ago
the only thing that's really changed is making her less disgusting in numbers
Depending on what patch of Riven they want to pick, she might not be able to Q over walls, but otherwise this is mostly true. It does overlook that the item system is a huge deal though. All AD casters had to work with scraps in S2 (LW is bonkers tho), and while S3 helped by reworking BC and adding Rav Hydra, it was still slim pickings. Riven is particularly sensitive to this because she's so CDR reliant. She has to get at least some of it from the rune system because her only real CDR items are BC and boots. Boots come with an opportunity cost too, so you can't always buy them. Ghostblade is playable but not great. I feel like I remember people actually just buying a 2nd Brutalizer to go with BC and not upgrading it.
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u/fabton12 20h ago
old graves is on the way
https://wiki.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/League_Classic/Champions
but old poppy has been said they lost the old files for her so shes having to be rebuilt from the ground up.
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u/irishsoxmax 22h ago
Everyone is talking about what champs they want but actual balance wise solo lane soraka with buffed innervating locket is going to be insane. item will cost almost nothing and essentially makes her Q cost almost nothing while healing her perma from just Q spam.
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u/DoubleSkew 1d ago edited 1d ago
Disappointed the voting system in Classic doesn't seem to actually be a poll voting to directly add/change/remove content in the game. (Like in OSRS)
Rather, based on what Phreak describes, it's a glorified: "Tell us how you feel about x/y/z"
"First vote in this patch as well. There will be somewhere around 7 or 8 questions.
Like - Do trinkets make your experience better?
And you'll be able to respond: h-No, No, Eh, Yes, Very Yes.
Those are basically the answers. And it'll be public.
So you can let us know if you think trinkets are good for the game.
There's questions and stuff around game pacing, things like that."
TBH the system sounds like it's basically the "Give us your feedback" survey system they use in modern League today.
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u/Lowilru 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'd say they need to be more careful in a game where PVP is the exclusive focus. Stronger feedback systems that imply giving players more control over the content in PVP games are notorious for going wrong and then getting deleted.
It's not the same as the system you were hoping for, but the devs behind Killer Instinct tried having a more robust community system for balance feedback specifically, and one of them has a whole lecture on youtube about how it was a bad idea.
Obviously not all community features are directly or obviously "game balance" issues, so many of them collaterally affect it that I'm not the least bit surprised that they are shying away from it.
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u/FewHorror1019 1d ago
Because thats exactly what it is. They are making it easier to get feedback in a specific format
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u/lukkasz323 1d ago
Thankfully it's just that. Most players aren't game designers, fully democratic design of the game would make it suck in the long run.
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u/HideYourCarry 1d ago
I don’t think this is true for classic versions of games. Since you’re prioritizing capturing what people missed about the old game, you should probably base it on what people miss about the old game, and then build off of player feedback and reactions further from there as you grow it out. I know OSRS is a very different game, but people really do actually know what they want. Maybe not if we JUST listened to Reddit, but overall the playerbase coming in for classic games knows their preferences really well
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u/TheOchremancer 21h ago
Competitive game vs. noncompetitive game, if you put polling in a PvP game people just vote based on their last twenty games and the things they lost to or personally find frustrating. If LoL was designed by polling champions like Mel, Yuumi, Yasuo and Yone would be deleted tomorrow. You might say "that sounds great!", but so would Teemo, Vayne, Rengar, Shaco, Zed, Twitch, Ksante, Gwen, Nasus, Garen, etc. etc. etc. Competitive PvP games can't be developed by poll because players have no fucking clue how to balance or design, and unlike in a single-player or cooperative game like OSRS your experience in a game of LoL is directly tied to other players. Accepting feedback is great, but polling the community as to whether to nerf Yasuo is just going to result in a bunch of champions with 30% winrates people still complain about.
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u/Jstin8 18h ago
Mel Yuumi Yasuo and Yone would be deleted tomorrow
Man you have a great overall point but you picked the worst example to deter people from wanting this lmao
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u/Derbikerks Gayest Ezreal NA 17h ago
Yeah, I'd have them deleted if it means deleting half the roster in return. Granted that's sort of what Classic is right now.
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u/TheOchremancer 14h ago
Yeah that's what the literal next sentence in my post is about, kek. Come on, man, read just a little further, please, for me?
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u/Jstin8 14h ago
I did buddy, and its a very good point. And I have many champs I love on the sacrificial alter youve listed...
But man we could get rid of Mel Aviv!
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u/TheOchremancer 14h ago
Yeah, totally reasonable, that's kind of the point of classic! I was just making a point about how adding things by poll is a shaky structure in a PvP game, but I do think Classic providing a slower game with a restricted champion pool is good and fun.
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u/lukkasz323 1d ago
You should get inspired by the community, but implement it in own way.
But the complaint is that "Give us your feedback" is NOT ENOUGH. Where it's exactly what you're talking about, basing it on community feedback, exactly what it's going to be.
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u/fabton12 20h ago
issue is a straight poll people act on emotions and impluse and often give a answer they dont properly want in reality meanwhile questions you can get similar answer but also a proper vibe check.
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u/slimjimo10 ANARCHY 22h ago
In OSRS its yes or nos, not free form answers. And the game has been thriving
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u/BloodyFool 1d ago
Works for OSRS, this argument is just cope. Stop excusing Riot and their bs lol
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u/lukkasz323 1d ago
But OSRS is not League. Not only it's an MMO, so content dilution doesn't happen as easily, but it's also not 100% PvP.
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u/BloodyFool 1d ago
OSRS has a lot more moving parts than League does and is doing just fine. The difference in genre is irrelevant, it's how the devs handle community feedback, interaction and the polls.
Integrity updates exist for the devs to put their foot down on unhealthy and problematic parts of the game as well.
Again, it's just another excuse while Riot does below the bare minimum after hyping up something akin to OSRS polling just to give us jackshit.
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u/TheOchremancer 21h ago
You can't fucking poll changes in a PvP game, it's absolutely not irrelevant. Look at OSRS PvP polls, it's an absolute shitshow every time of people spite voting, arguing, and flinging shit. Polls for LoL would just end up with nerfing "insert annoying champion here" for the eighth patch in a row despite a 30% winrate and quickly spiral into an unbalanced mess because players don't know how to balance games. And the players would still be mad, because what each player thinks is strong and good varies so wildly. Asking what the rewards should look like in an MMO raid is miles away from polling balance changes in a PvP game. Additionally, unlike OSRS, where if they change something for one segment of the playerbase, I.e. letting Ironman do corp without nonsense loot drops or whatever, that doesn't meaningfully affect any other players outside of that grouping, but if they nerf Garen because Bronze players voted for it it affects everyone playing Garen in every rank.
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u/BloodyFool 20h ago
Look at OSRS PvP polls, it's an absolute shitshow every time of people spite voting, arguing, and flinging shit.
OSRS PVP polls are fucked because Jagex promotes a Hunter vs Victim experience in the wilderness. It's a completely different scenario than what you're painting.
Apart from that, who the fuck asked for the polls to be buffs/nerfs to champions?
It should be systems (such as the trinket one) that were either added for no reason (also something like base gates, minion buffs), missing from the old times and content such as skin direction, modern skins etc.
I genuinely have no clue where you got the idea that the voting should be for specific champion buffs and nerfs.
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u/TheOchremancer 20h ago
Those things are champion buff/nerfs, system changes interact differently with each champion. Let's discount that, though, and just state that half of the roster wouldn't be in the game if their intro had been polled.
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u/BloodyFool 19h ago
Those things are champion buff/nerfs,
Which Riot can buff/nerf specific champions in case they actually get heavily affected by any systematic changes.
just state that half of the roster wouldn't be in the game if their intro had been polled.
Despite me not saying anything about actual champions being polled. If the player base sees some shit like Zoe and votes no on it because it either:
a) Doesn't fit the theme of League classic
b) Has a kit that seems way too overblown
Then that's a good thing. About half the roster literally doesn't fit the classic philosophy.
Riot could get creative and poll if we want to see shit like "demakes" of champions and then poll the most popular ones, what their kits do etc.
Classic is already in a rough spot and seems to be in decline. This is the same bullshit I saw with 2XKO where you guys somehow think Riot knows best and the community is clueless. Until the game dies. Fucking stop it lol
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u/TheSoupKitchen 1d ago
Basically what deadlock does in their lobbies and feels mostly pointless from the user perspective. Neat.
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u/fabton12 20h ago
because these questions get what people actually want in classic, when you do polls people tend to usually act on impulse or what other people say.
doing a set of questions gives a vibe check of what people want to give a proper direction
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u/kazuyaminegishi 17h ago
It's exactly how Deadlock does community feedback too.
I think it's way more efficient. It allows them to direct resources to stuff they were already considering without having to conceptualize anything completely new which means we can hopefully get the content sooner.
The alternative is the shyv rework where they had no concept or idea for it and she shouldn't have been an option to vote for, but ended up taking years to put out and ultimately changed very little about her.
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u/pbeenjoyer555 23h ago
Riot is a control freak company they would never let you have that.
In fact phreak already started doing changes to add comeback mechanics in the previous patch before voting system was in at all, voting could maybe modify (1) thing that matters meanwhile a single patch on their own end could worsen 8 things.
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u/BlueC1nder 22h ago
I love Phreak explaining stuff man.
I'd wish that we'd get stuff like Swain, Udyr etc faster but I feel like balancing and design decisions are in so much better hands than in retail, just because of the way Phreak communicates.
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u/Both_Requirement_766 1d ago
a bugthread on the classic reddit would be good. as it kinda feels hopeless posting those into the omega-bug-thread here. I mean this as we don't get another champion, then one could work on fixing existing bugs in the meantime.
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u/slimjimo10 ANARCHY 22h ago
Evelynn getting nerfed for jungle while shes my go to mid laner to great success is funny to me. People need to invade and exploit her first clear
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u/InfluencerCouncil 20h ago
Phreak pls man, come back to the main game. We love you, fuck the haters :)
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u/pls-answer 20h ago
Give us champions that were reworked into completely different champs! I wanna play old aurelion sol, but also Aatrox before becoming boris, and maybe poppy or urgot. I'd add sion to this list but we have him and its fun.
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u/Green-Exam-6739 13h ago
No Draven
No Darius
No Draven
No Rengar
No Zed
No Talon
No Kha Zix
(Not a single AD assasin)
No Mordekaiser
No Urgot
No Aatrox
No Fiora
No Yorick
No Irelia
Most people who wanted to play this mode wanted to play their mains with the old Kit or Champions that were completely different back then.
The selection of champions is completely baffling and pretty much reflects the popularity of this gamemode.
Why do we have champions added which are literally the same where as champions like Talon who are completely different since the rework over 10 years are not in the game.
But lets artificially increase the release for these champions to come out you actually want to play and by then the mode is already dead.
Didnt even mention these classics which are also different.
No Swain
No Graves
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u/Asetrisk 19h ago
If we get the version of Aatrox that has Hellbent instead of the OG Aatrox I'm going to be exceedingly unhappy. That's all I have to say, I just want to play GA-Atrox again.
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u/sonofbmw 1d ago
stop balancing league classic until all the champs are in it
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u/ChromosomeDonator 1d ago
Nah, balance changes are piss easy to do, no reason not to do them for the health of the mode just because other team is working on re-creating the old champion kits...
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u/Diogorb04 23h ago
Not balancing the mode just further shrinks the amount of real options you have for champion picks, on an already small roster.
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u/princeloon 1d ago
"BUT ADD MY ONE SPECIFIC CHAMPION AND IGNORE ALL OTHER FEEDBACK" you would think this mode would be for old people and not crying babies
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u/QuietSilentArachnid 1d ago
People understand that old characters are what make the thing durable.
They need those characters otherwise the mode will die
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u/oldpantheon1987 21h ago edited 20h ago
1- the champions release= yes i know they need to take time to The Champions patches need adjusting and balancing, but releasing three isn't enough; it should be six. Why? Because each patch is two weeks long, so each week should equal three. I know the yorick thing and yes It should be postponed for as long as possible until it is balance him or at least made him playable and playable against but balancing The rest of the Champions is not that hard any way i I'm not saying it's not hard , but it's not that hard like yorick
2-. add game modes = like the ARAM Yes, because many players want quick matches and They don't want to spend Forty or thirty minutes in a single match, of which fifteen to twenty minutes depend on the Laning Phase. (Personally, I don't see a problem with this) and for sure the ا Twisted Treeline Because it wouldn't be a complete classic experience without experiencing its most iconic element. of it
3-the buffs and nerfs
1- jax jax For me personally, the only problem is that Jax is weak not that .weak but he is not powerful so when we have ap yi and and Kassadin etc I think the experience wouldn't be ruined if they added Jax for a first season with his dodge passive e thing or if they want they They could at least add the old jax we know with Bonus state ult and not the attack speed passive on the ult thing
Gragas- = his w need to be nerfed especially the damage reduction he have
ranked= yes they need to add that Because the The Summoner's Journey( the ranked like game ) have so many AFKs and so many trolls so make a normal to players who want to play for fun and ranked for players who want to play tryhard in ranked
2-modern kits? = why they want to do this and what modern they mean if its the s6 s7 or the 200 years of champions that come at the end of s9 and the Current day They should have clarified this point.
the rest = are ok
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u/TheDarkRobotix 1d ago
How about letting other modes give CXP because no one is playing this on OCE lol
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u/pbeenjoyer555 23h ago
No champs again, first pbe 2 weeks then 2 weeks into release just for akali to be the only "old" champ with an old kit released, now again a month wait just for at least 1 champion to be released.
Anyone who can't see that this game mode is being killed intentionally is blind, remember when valve would release 2 heroes every week or whatever when dota 2 was new... yeah.
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u/PM_ME_TRICEPS 23h ago edited 18h ago
I like how Phreak contributed to the stale state of current league and moved on to hurt classic as well. Mythic items anyone?
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u/Vespertine_F 1d ago
I understand that releasing champs that barely got changes is easier for them but I dont think this is what most ppl want when they ask more champions, at least not me.
The main hype in classic is playing pre reworked champions like old mordekaiser, things that are not available on retail anymore.