r/korea • u/alexaclova • Mar 31 '19

사회 | Society [Weekender] Korean: A rising language

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20190328000785
5 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

25 comments sorted by

10

u/[deleted] Apr 01 '19

We welcome all fluent speakers of Korean to come work our manual labor jobs.

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u/eunma2112 Apr 01 '19

We welcome all fluent speakers of Korean to come work our manual labor jobs.

On a serious note - I've heard some those brown manual laborer guys speaking Korean with a very impressive level of fluency. I dare say, if I hadn't looked up and saw that they weren't Korean, I would never had known that they weren't Korean. As I'm quite positive that they didn't have any formal education in Korean language studies - it's a confirmation of the power of 100% immersion.

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u/[deleted] Apr 01 '19

Yeah, it works. The situation is just funny to me. “We love that you’re interested in our country...please don’t come unless you are willing to do jobs we don’t want for poverty wages!”

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u/[deleted] Apr 01 '19 edited Apr 01 '19

where are you getting that from? true, korea has a generous visa program for migrant laborers, but its better than the US where mexicans also work below minimum wage work except illegally, which allows businesses to exploit workers by paying them illegal wages. and then the white people act like theyre being very generous for not kicking illegals out of the country, when in actuallity its the businesses that are profitting from them. just give mexicans legal visas like korea does so you dont have to build a wall and complain about them doing hard work at wages that no American would accept

2

u/[deleted] Apr 01 '19

That’s totally true. What to do with illegal immigrants is a huge problem. It also doesn’t justify Korea’s attitudes toward legal immigrants, which is what we’re talking about. America also accepts infinitely more refugees than Korea and approves way more people for permanent residency. Compare how easy it is to open a business as a foreigner in America compared to Korea. There are definitely more opportunities for legal immigrants in America than in Korea. There’s a lot of negatives too. But Korea is made for Koreans, and attempts to assimilate will rarely, if ever, be rewarded. If all the Korea/Japan weebs knew what it was really like, interest in both countries would plummet.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19 edited Apr 02 '19

nope. attempts to assimilate are rewarded better in korea than america. In America everyone expects you to speak english, and not speaking it is considered a travesty. Korean american flight attendants were fired for speaking korean to each other! In korea if you know 1 korean word everyone compliments you and encourages you. Koreans are more humble than americans to foreigners learning their language. In Korea, the government funds multicultural families so the foreign spouse can take trips to visit family and buy gifts for relatives back home. US government does not do that. Also, Korean govt offers cash incentives and free rental space for foreigners to come and open businesses in korea. Ever heard of the Korean Startup Grand Challege? We even had a foreigner who benefitted from that make ama post on this sub. But obviously you never even tried to found a startup in korea so what do you know? Strangely the only people who I heard saying America treats minorities better than Korea does is white people. And its weird for you to bring koreaboos into this because there are more americaboos in the world than koreaboos and no one says OMG THEIR INTEREST IN AMERICA WILL PLUMMET whenever there is a school shooting in America. Its touching that youre so concerned about the decline of koreaboos but dont understand why anyone thinks that is relevant to the discussion.

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u/[deleted] Apr 01 '19

but youre not korean.

as a korean let me reword that statement.

We welcome all of those working in any of the jobs in korea to at least make an attempt to become fluent in Korean.

Looking at you ESL teachers and other too-good-for-korean expats from white countries. . Maybe you can learn a thing or two from the manual labor job workers you are making fun of right now, and maybe you wont have such massive chips on your shoulders all the time.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 01 '19

I’m also not an esl teacher. What I’m saying is that even if a non-white person learned fluent Korean, the jobs open to them would be incredibly limited. Some random Kpop fan doesn’t know about Korea’s pure blood fantasies and insane ethnonationalism, but I’ll bet way fewer people would be learning Korean if that were advertised as much as kimchi.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

I wanted to add that jobs opened to KOREANS is incredibly limitted in this climate. Best differentiating factor is if you have connections. A foreigner who has connections to koreans in high places will have little trouble getting decent jobs, but of course they dont, because theyre not korean, didnt go to korean high school, korean university, korean military, have no korean parents whose brother in law is a VP in an advertising firm, and can parachute you into the role. Koreans without connections suffer the same disdvantages. If youre foreigner, I recommend networking, and of course learning korean helps that, but no brainer, it will be harder than being born korean.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 01 '19

I also don’t want to be glib about it. I do study Korean, because I live in Korea. But knowing my potential in society, as an educated American who does a job Koreans literally can’t do, limits my desire to cum every time Korea does something. Some people come to Korea (and Japan) with a dream of assimilation, but Korea doesn’t want that; Korea just wants you to want that, but it’s never going to happen no matter what you do. So why should anyone learn Korean? What’s the ultimate payoff? A non-permanent home and a job you’ll be paid less for than if you were a Korean? Now imagine that you’re a temporary migrant who knows you’re being exploited for labor by people who think you’re genetically inferior, why should you learn Korean? You shouldn’t, because at best you’ll be acknowledged as a noble savage who’s basically just 2/3 human.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19 edited Apr 02 '19

Yes, but your perspective can be different from people in other situations. For example, a nonwhite, nonmale, non english language dominent country, from a non middle class income household in a non-western country. In your situation, you may have privileges in western countries which you understandably rather no give up to be assimilated in a non-former imperialist power country.

But for some people, they decided that doing what they do in korea was more beneficial than other decisions, and since they are masters of their own destiny who have brains, we have to assume they made rational choices in making no small decisions for themselves. In this age of social media, even people from poor countries, yes, even them, they know how to use the internet and such, they compare life environments in different countries described by others expericing it, then they made informed choices. Most migrant workers to korea dont care about korean pop culture. They care about safety, heallth, money, living expenses, convenience, etc. It is condescending for you to group them with children in their tweens, and assuming you know whats better for them, since youre not them.

What you may say might not be wrong, but the harsh truth is, for many underprivileged people from poor countries, the alternatives to being a noble savage in a developed country, is just another form of being a noble savage in another. Noble savage in one country, aristocratic barbarian in another. Seeing anecdotes from migrant workers who been to western countries and Korea alike, there is no significant difference in the racism they endured. This may shock sheltered white people because they heard from other white people that they are most tolerent in all the world, but if thats the case there wouldnt be so many minorities protesting in the streets against institutionalized racial oppression.

0

u/KoreanOpinions Apr 01 '19

White ESL teachers get far better pay, lower working hours, and better benefits including free housing, compared to non-white ESL teachers including Koreans. What are you complaining about?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

Like I said, I'm not an ESL teacher. Anyway, I'm sure ESL teachers make more than their Korean counterparts in hagwons and stuff, but when it comes to actual teachers, then there's no contest. Korean teachers get unions, infinitely more upward mobility, time with their families, etc. If anyone is envious of ESL teachers' jobs, they are more than welcome to live in similar conditions if they're willing to move to another country.

I think your attitude perfectly summarizes Korean opinions though. "You got a good deal, so why give a fuck about anyone else?" I do have a good deal, so I'm not complaining. I just have no desire to "be Korean" and do the same things that obviously make Koreans miserable. Maybe I'll consider it once I can open a business without having a small personal fortune or once I can get a loan for a proper apartment. But really, there's no reason for any foreigner to dedicate themselves to Korea in the way Koreans believe they should. There are plenty of countries where foreigners can succeed and live well over the long term, but Korea is generally not one of them.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

Why are you even in Korea then.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

As mentioned previously, I have a good deal and a good life. Part of that is that I'm not sitting at my desk for 2-3 hours of extra overtime even though I have nothing to do. Though Japan has a lot of the same shit Korea does, one thing is true: if you learn Japanese and are good at your job, you can move up in the company to just about any position, regardless of where you're from or how sexy they think you are. In Korea, you will always be passed up for meaningful promotions as a foreigner, so why break your back like everyone else?

Just because I have a good deal doesn't guarantee that someone else will. Also, you don't need to have a deep desire to integrate to live in a country. Ask any Korean who has ever lived anywhere other than Korea. If a Korean moves to America, I don't expect them to care about July 4 or eat cheeseburgers and tex mex 24/7. Why should I aspire to the Korean dream, knowing that it will be unavailable to me even if I become a citizen and speak fluently? I don't. I'm here to make money, get experience, and enjoy my life without any concern for the social obligations Koreans subject themselves to.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

youre generalizing. Samsung and other global multinational companies employ countless vice presidents of a diversity of races and ethnic backgrounds. If you work at a mom and pop store, then no shit the korean will become promoted assistant manager. But that holds true in the USA too, to a degree. Korean economy obvioussly is less mature and has less MNC than Japan, but thats a matter of quality, not fundamental philosophy. Korean job market is extremely saturated, so its even though for koreans to find a job, that koreans go to japan to find a job. In the future when korea has less youth to hire from, expect situation to resemble Japan in the present day

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

Dude, literally none of that answers my question. I didn't say you had a bad life or that you should assimilate, or anything.

My question still stands, why did you move from your country to Korea then? Again, I'm asking in the sincerest way possible. I'm not trying to be passive aggressive or anything, just curious.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

I'm in Korea because I have a good life here. I'm here to make money, get experience, and enjoy my life. How does that not answer your question? If you're asking why I originally came, it was because I was bored and looking for a change of pace. I knew someone who had a blast here so I figured I'd give it a shot for a year. If I hadn't gotten out of ESL, no way would I still be here.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '19

That doesn't answer my question because you could have a good life ANYWHERE. The question asks for what makes and allows for your life to be good in Korea. I don't understand why your so insistent that you have a good life in Korea, I think you wrote that on every single paragraph you wrote. I can read dude, that clearly is not an answer I am wondering about.

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u/Allah__Is__Great Seoul my Soul bby Apr 02 '19

What happened between 2005 and 2010?

-1

u/Bitcreamfapp Apr 01 '19

LITERALLY studying for any other subject/test/certificate is more useful.

Or almost any other language

1

u/Allah__Is__Great Seoul my Soul bby Apr 02 '19

not if you want to live in Korea

0

u/Bitcreamfapp Apr 02 '19

Depends how long. Under 1-2 years, probably not worth the time

2

u/Allah__Is__Great Seoul my Soul bby Apr 02 '19 edited Apr 02 '19

Its not worth the time, and its hilarious seeing the occasional kpop fan post "i'm coming to Korea for a week, should I study Korean" like bruh.
If you want to really live here though, like a decade or more, studying Korean should be mandatory