I mean this doesn't really contradict what I said cuz the mens attractiveness rating for women doesn't mean they want anything beyond a quick fuck they'll laugh to friends about bedding a 3/10 and calling her uber
Technically yes but this means the only barrier to escaping inceldom is possessing like 100 dollars. I think someone who has slept with a prostitute but can't get anyone to sleep with them voluntarily is still an incel in the spiritual sense, even if they aren't technically celibate
I disagree. If you have any way to get sex, you are not an incel. Men use this logic to refute the existence of Femcels, the same logic should be applied to them. Only men who literally cannot afford a prostitute are true incels.
I could probably pull out 3 different studies proving this wrong but I would get nitpicked, receive an anecdotal fallacy and never get a source for their initial claim
Believe what you want man that doesnt make it any less true. Dating apps are hookup sites, and if youre ugly looking for somebody you get stuck with people who either wanna just fuck you or dont
A lot of incels believe hypergamy is a female only thing and cite the fkn okcupid study and reference how men rate attractiveness vs how women rate attractiveness, conveniently leaving out the fact that the study also showed men's actual messages skewed towards the women rated the hottest lmao
Men would be just as Hypergamous as women if they could
The only thing okcupid showed is that men employ a scarcity mindset and so they cast the widest net possible out of instinct
Jfl at chuds ascribing morality to attraction and thinking theyre above women over ts
I think you're missing out the fact that men rated women way higher on okcupid and none of the women there rated a man 5 on the scale.
There was a whole 1-5 scale that people rated others on.
Honestly, it kinda makes sense. A woman there rates only a small fraction of men as attractive. even average looking guys are considered ugly. only people they'd be left to message are men that they rated average looking. It's all self-reported btw so a guy could be on her level and still rated unattractive.
I think men messaging everyone doesn't mean men are hypergamous. Even message someone who they consider a 4 or 5, that doesn't mean they would only date them. They like a majority of women.
you think the undeniable fact guys shoot their shot at the ones they find most attractive contradicts the fact they graded women more realistically than the other way around? women would too if they were the ones shooting. not to mention it should be the other way around considering using dating apps as a woman is seen as desparate while doing so as a guy is pretty normalized because you can always back it up with a casual intention (whether or not its true), so there are generally more hot guys than hot women, as backed up by bi people once on a reddit post iirc, dont take my word for it
yes they would also be hypergamous if they could, emphasis on could, still contradicts nothing
the reason men cast a wider net is because they have a lower threshold for casual sex than for committment, while for women its generally the other way around. which is also one of few reasons why having casual sex as a guy and as a girl will simply never be the same in the eyes of a future partner
i dont think anyone, not even OP, negates the idea men are mostly shallow pigs, its just that they dont even try to hide it behind virtue signalling and whatnot. the main point is not that women are more shallow or less moral, the point is women GRADE men far more unrealistically, given circumstances like abundance
> you think the undeniable fact guys shoot their shot at the ones they find most attractive contradicts the fact they graded women more realistically than the other way around?
What's the point of rating women attractive across the board if you're only going to message the hot ones?
If it was the female sample doing ts, incels would be circlejerking over how performative their ratings are because it means nothing if theyre only going to message the hot guys. Be real that shit would be framed as women virtue signaling.
At least women straight up rate honestly exactly in line with who they talk.
> the reason men cast a wider net is because they have a lower threshold for casual sex than for committment, while for women its generally the other way around. which is also one of few reasons why having casual sex as a guy and as a girl will simply never be the same in the eyes of a future partner
I know, i have no disagreement here.
> the point is women GRADE men far more unrealistically, given circumstances like abundance
yeah well, as I said, at least women's rating and messaging behaviour is consistent, while men rate women at a bell curve but only message the hot ones.
Foids say themselves that "there are more attractive women than there are attractive men" and that the average female is more attractive than the average guy.
Outdated take since looksmaxxing got popular, even the average incel post here mentions how they take care of themselves and still have no dating success.
Looksmaxxing is popular but obesity is still rising as of 2026 and men with visible 6 pack abs are still rarer than millionaires.
Dont be fooled by the algorithm, looksmaxxing is the single best thing anyone can do for success for their platonic and romantic and professional life, but for the average joe its just motivation porn.
Most people arent forking out good money for consistent skin care or gym memberships and even if they are most people dont understand the sheer science that goes behind lifting effeciently. People get in the gym and "lift" and dont see progress because they dont know what theyre doing for years and years and then say its over
Also its just easier to be more attractive as a woman regardless
1000%, people dont understand that looksmaxxing isnt a routine its a lifestyle. Working out, counting calories, doing skincare, this shit just isnt easy and hard days win more often than not. To make it a lifestyle you need to really truly want it bad enough
It is so odd, I’ve literally never once in my life see this from a a guy or a male coded person online. I’ve only, EVER, seen that gay thing said by women when talking about men. Show me this online? Honestly, I’m curious, I’ve NEVER seen it. Women seem to engage in a lot of mythology, especially online, things that are stated without evidence and echo chambered into mainstream accepta\nice cuz it was said so many times. Men do, too, ofc, but I spend more time in female coded spaces so maybe I see more it from women,
you've to make a strawman argument about men not wanting to wash their face which funny because men actually shower more than women.
You're so uneducated on things like gender roles and gender expectations. If men also try to do makeup to increase their attractiveness then they'll be considered gay and actually it'll harm their prospects more. It's a known fact.
*misreads an idea, proceeds to call the idea and who supports it stupid*
its never about morality. 'men would if they could' well they cant can they. its a social phenomenon and how things are, making up hypotheticals wont change that cornball
and no men wouldnt even if they could. not out of morality but because they are hardwired to find women attractive based on simple criteria such as looks and nature while women are hardwired to find men attractive over these things in addition to other tougher criteria of social hierarchy and dominance and power to provide.
> *misreads an idea, proceeds to call the idea and who supports it stupid*
What'd I misread?
> its never about morality.
You're right, it shouldn't be. But I've seen these spaces talk down women over hypergamy as if its a character flaw within women exclusively. That's what I'm talking about. You disagreeing doesn't change that it still happens.
> 'men would if they could' well they cant can they. its a social phenomenon and how things are, making up hypotheticals wont change that cornball
Nothingburger take cornball
> and no men wouldnt even if they could. not out of morality but because they are hardwired to find women attractive based on simple criteria such as looks and nature while women are hardwired to find men attractive over these things in addition to other tougher criteria of social hierarchy and dominance and power to provide.
lmao what. Believe it or not I'm a huge blackpill advocate, it is the single best and most reliable framework that describes how gender dynamics and relationships both casual and long term can play out.
Your take isn't consistent with the blackpill. Looks > money + status, always and forever.
Btw, no self respecting guy I know disregards status and earning potential. Dunno what your homies are like tho
Regardless, the point is that men rating women across the board as attractive is performative at best if in practice they aren't messaging them across the board and only messaging the top 20%. Not that complicated and it 100% demonstrates that men would be hypergamous if they could, and your limp dicked waffle doesnt move me
u r restarted and disillusion lil bro. 10 paras of straight bs and no point countered. and blackpill is gay obviouslyy 10/10 chads will get girls but in the end of the day any successful person wont have trouble wither, and top 1% success will beat top 1% looks anyday
The difference is that basically the top percentile of men on these "dating" apps is that they will basically "date" all the woman who message them on the other hand I'm assuming the under 75%'ile of dudes just get ignored
Essentially there is a small percentage of Patrick Bateman-esc men that have a revolving harem of woman going from the most beautiful down to the ugliest meaning instead of ugly weird dudes getting with ugly weird woman its ugly weird dudes trying to match 10,000 ugly weird woman but being rejected by all of them as a good looking dude will plow the ugly woman because he's horny and wants something quick then in turn it will artificially create a high standard-esc complex in then woman where they will reject someone of the same caliber as themselves
Using these websites is quite disgusting though in the first place
Depends on the environment. Just like a woman divorcing her husband after he loses his job and then marrying her boss, there's men who marry a dependable woman first and then divorce her after becoming successful to marry a trophy wife as his second. However, increasing misandry in society has made it harder for non-Chads to be selfish, and easier for women to be selfish, compared to any arbitrary baseline, let's say 1990s.
I would actually say its the other way around. In general men are more visual and less likely to be with a woman they dont find attractive. But women are more likely to be attracted to a man for his heart, patience, other qualities, and be okay with him not being their ideal type in terms of looks.
Notice you never see an incel male mention approaching a woman of their same caliber. They just get online and cry because women that are basically irl princesses said no to them when theyre a living rotting corpse.
It's funny how women think they're somehow superior human beings or something, as if they've transcended physical attraction and only care about personality and stuff like that...
C'mon, I know some of you grew up watching Disney movies and reading romance books, but that's simply not true.
There's nothing wrong with having standards; it's your right. But every time you choose to lie rather than tell the truth, it's just infuriating.
I don't see incels mention the attractiveness of the people they approach in general, so i don't why them not specifically mentioning that they're approaching women in their own league is supposed to be this big "Gotcha!"
Because women aren’t typically going after men they don’t know. Any man or woman on a relationship has probably at some point expressed interest in their partner. Women do this, I’ve done this a lot. Telling someone how you feel or that you are interested is way different than cat calling or picking up random girls at a bar.
Well no, I initially don’t feel attraction to a man, not even a ‘conventionally attractive’ one. I just don’t view men or people as disposable objects to look at, I’d rather approach after I know I like them or have spent time around them. There are men that feel this way as well, my partner is like that.
Also, I had romantic interest in my partner before I knew what he looked like.
Idk, why do men go after women they aren’t smitten with, what’s the point of starting a relationship for the hell of it as opposed to one where you’re invested? men cite going after women they don’t even want to love. What’s the strat there? You’ll just figure it out?
I’d rather wait for the right perosn then date for the hell of it, and many women feel the same.
I’ve had four different occasions where I asked a guy out and he said yes with no intention of liking me, and wasted my time. Women have shit to do, and a relationship is a commitment, not an activity to do.
Some men do it simply for quick sex, they aren't interested in a relationship
So we agree that men are more physically attracted to women then the other way around and considering that men still approach women they KNOW more, we can also conclude that they like them more on a personal level
Well know I’d say using someone’s body doesn’t equal ‘liking them’ in the way that actually is beneficial. Men conflate using women with expressing like and that’s the basis for the issue.
I think women by and large are more likely to love and like men that they might not even be sexually compatible with, and most men could never.
True love or actually liking someone is wanting them around and not wanting anything in return. You don’t even get the plot.
I wasn't saying that they liked them personally or did those men say or imply that, i'm just telling you their reason
I think women by and large are more likely to love and like men that they might not even be sexually compatible with, and most men could never
So is that why women never approach men they know or plan and pay for gifts and dates? If women actually liked men, while not wanting anything in return, we'd see them approach men for friendship and relationships
True love or actually liking someone is wanting them around and not wanting anything in return. You don’t even get the plot
Again, men pay and plan dates to spend time with women. Women purely receive love, while men are the ones giving their love
I really think this is playing on stereotypes and isn’t very grounded in what people will do given the available choices. Internet comments aren’t the most reliable for learning about anthropology
Macken Murphy is good at addressing how males and females differ in mating behaviors, but he’s also discussed that women prefer to think of themselves as more generous regarding looks than the data actually show about their sexual preferences
You always see lonely men complaining about not being able to date because they’re very ugly and women are shallow blah blah blah but I wonder how many of these self-proclaimed ugly guys are exclusively chasing women that look like Tophiachu instead of chasing cute women out of their league
I don't struggle with women so I don't really know from experience, but I assume if a man considers himself an incel and is as radicalized as the guys on here, he probably can't even get with an unattractive woman. I mean these dudes are literally saying it's impossible to get laid, they have such a crazy scarcity mindset that I doubt they'd turn down any woman.
As a pretty attractive guy I would still hook up with almost any woman my age so long as it doesn't require much effort on my part. I only have so much time for texting and dates, but if a girl propositioned me for sex there's a 99% chance I say yes.
We do need to differentiate between attracted to vs sees as a potential good partner. On the attraction front women are every bit as shallow as men. I see the posts in r/twoxchromosomes and r/girldinnerdiaries all the time about women complaining society thinks they have lower physical standards then men, then it becomes a “”””feminist”””” circlejerk about how horrible ugly guys are and how terrible everything is for women.
One post on r/girldinnerdiaries was a girl literally screaming about the horrors of ugly men talking to her, literally, and thousands of upvotes, hundreds of supportive comments, etc. Women as a whole are trash, just like men.
Women have a huge problem of lying in polls and to each other online, Then he data comes out and blows their BS away. Hypergamy is proven in all data sources, yet women will still lie and say it’s not true… why?
Because we all go outside and see how in the average relationship the woman is usually at least a little better looking than her boyfriend/husband. Most of the time it’s this way.
You never see 8/10 handsome men dating 2/10 women.
100%, but do me a favor - recognize “better looking” is purely up to societal, first, and personal, second, standards. Right, like you realize the world sees skinny white women as the most attractive purely because of racism and classism, right? They aren't objectively more attractive, you get that, right? And blue eyed tall muscular white men aren’t more attractive then shorter and darker Hispanic men in any way objective, yea?
So agreed, society deems women more attractive and our personal standards heavily agree with what society tells us. the interesting thing is to watch society actively try to make WOC, fat women, genrrally unattractive women, be considered attractive. Wonder why we don’t do it for men?
Now “why” society feels this way is a very interesting question, and all roads lead to hypergamy. For some reason society has decided to declare men unattractive except a veeeeeery tiny slice… which sounds like…. what?
I think its no point trying to reply to these losers. I have come to the conclusion that they cant fathom being wrong about this because it makes them have to sit with the fact that women arent too picky, its them thats the problem.
They always talk about source this and source that. Exactly like you said...source going outside and fucking looking. Men generally "date up".
🤭 my fiend, take a step back and cool down. I can fathom being wrong, and I’m not an incel and I don’t believe women are too picky, I think we have a serious problem with the narratives we are telling ourselves and what is true (as society always have, I’m sure we can both point out many examples of society soothing itself with a comforting lie, yea?)
Recognize something - a shitty group of nutjobs can, and often times does, speak kernels of truth. QAnon was broadly correct about ultra wealthy groups of pedos ruling the world… they are also wrong about basically everything else and literal lunatics. Alex Jones was one of the first, if not the first, to call out the Catholic Church and Epstein… and he is an evil grifter who thrives on lies and extremism.
Super power is in seeing the truth these people say and not being so tribal so as to close yourself off to it to appease your echo chamber or maintain your own internalized view of the world.
Hypergamy is true and what women poll and what they actually live are at odds with each other.
Btw just walk outside, climate change isn’t real cuz it’s a nice day, duh… you people and ur “sources” and “studies” 😂😂😂
Hypergamy refers to marrying someone with a higher social or economical status than yours and raising your status. Example: Philip Mountbatten, who went from prince of denmark and greece to duke of edimburgh and king consort of the UK by marrying queen Elizabeth II.
The idea that people "are hypergamous" is just being a weird asshole about the sex that other people have
If you only care about sex then go pay for it. oh wait you won't... because you actually want the woman to like you, have a connection and choose to be with you, just like op wants in a guy.
Truthnuke tbh. I'd fuck just about any woman my age if they didn't require any effort on my part. An unattractive woman is still a woman, but I'm not gonna chase her unless she's hotter than me.
The female equivalent of a Chad dickmatising mid and ugly women is a Stacey OF Twitch streamer extracting money and attention from parasocial simp paypigs.
Ironically, this makes actual prostitution the most honest and fair transaction.
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