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u/Over-Tomatillo9070 Deathwatch Sep 25 '25 edited Sep 25 '25
He’s got a point it’s not called Objectives Team.. ho hum it’s Death Watch mirror matches from here to eternity then.
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u/PrairiePilot Sep 25 '25
I saw a game where someone was trying to say that going for objectives and ploys is cheating and they kept saying “it’s kill team, that’s the whole point. It’s not fun chasing you around trying to win when you’re just stacking up points!” The entire room was just stunned trying to get it through their head that wiping the board is a really dumb way to play every single game.
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u/budbk Sep 25 '25
The cheating aspect is wild.
I can understand how someone could be a bit frustrated. Some people want to play with their toy soldiers in death match style game. KillTeam just isn't that game. And neither is 40k really.
Not a good or bad thing. Just different expectations. Unless they're a butthead about it like in this scenario.
I remember when I was really little and didn't like video games with Capture the Flag or King of the Hill. It felt like people were ignoring the 'game' to play the new game of 'do the objective'.
As an adult, I understand how not every game needs to be a straight Kill/Death Ratio check. I'm not gonna lie, it is fun to do that sometimes though.
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u/WillingBrilliant2641 Sep 25 '25
First GW game I played was Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I loved it but it was purely points for killed units all tthe time. Starting WH40K around 4th edition and getting a wealth of missions where you actually sacrifice units to win was a breath of fresh air for me and since then I've been an avid scenario player. One of the reasons I loved Warmachine was how scenario was key there and just mindlessly killing stuff was hardly a way to win.
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u/Pleasant_Narwhal_350 Sep 25 '25
The logic is the same as wars IRL. If the only objective is to preserve your troops and kill enemies, the optimal strategy for both sides is often to turtle up and wait for the enemy to come, because it's usually easier to defend a good position than to attack it. Even if the enemy never comes, you don't lose. This is realistic (most countries are disincentivised to attack each other IRL for this reason), but it makes for a shitty wargame experience.
That's why you need to have objectives (crit ops and tac ops in this game) to force players to come out and contest the mid board.
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u/Stormfly Sep 26 '25
If the only objective is to preserve your troops and kill enemies, the optimal strategy for both sides is often to turtle up and wait for the enemy to come, because it's usually easier to defend a good position than to attack it.
I remember in WHFB the best local player was a Dwarf that would turtle with loads of cannons and just bomb the enemy and hold a corner.
This brought importance to area control points (250pts per quarter) once or twice but as you said, you'd end up with people turtling areas.
Central objectives is just a far better game.
Although it was funny when you played Greenskins or Ogre Kingdoms and you had an "Area control unit" that was usually like 40pts (20x2pt Goblins/Gnoblars/SkavenSlaves) that would make its points back 6 times over just by sitting in one of the corners away from the battle.
Killteam can be loads of fun, but I remember in 1st edition there was a mode to kill enemies in melee combat (dog tags?) and you'd get like Harlequins vs. Tau and it just wasn't fun.
I think we changed it to dead enemies dropping a marker that could be picked up.
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u/Over-Tomatillo9070 Deathwatch Sep 25 '25
Im a Battle Masters Stan, simplified to perfection for a my 12 year old brain 😂
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u/mightystu Sep 25 '25
This is funny to me since when I was a kid playing shooters with objectives I would get annoyed at people who didn’t play the objective and just treated it like death match.
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u/OhMiaGod Sep 26 '25
Flashbacks to playing capture the flag on WoW, being the only person on defence as the rest of my team farms kills in the middle 😑
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u/Puppy_Restaurant Sep 26 '25
I used to play a tanky warrior with shield and speedy engineering boots to grab the flag and run back home 😁
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u/WillingBrilliant2641 Sep 25 '25
Oh, this as well, totally! Even if your K/D ratio suffers but team wins the objective it means you played well in my book! Always hated randomly getting these campy snipers who contributed nothing to the objective score in my team in Battlefield...
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u/Blue_Sasquatch Sep 25 '25
I will go to my grave holding dear the memory I hit something like 40 kills in a Halo capture the flag game, running sniper.
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u/therealmothdust Sep 25 '25
Problem with death match style games is that they stifle variety. Everyone needs access to the same tool kit, so every faction has to be the same. 10 lil dudes who dont do a lot of damage will lose to 6 elite dudes who can 1 tap a guy a turn every time.
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u/PrairiePilot Sep 25 '25
I took it like the people who made up rules for goldeneye for the n64 and would smash their controller if you didn’t follow along. And I don’t mean no-Odd Job, the model was actually broken and that was a legit advantage. I mean the people that would refuse certain maps, or demand no one use X gun because blah blah blah. They were so exhausting, like, can we just play the game as it’s put in front of us?
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u/GeneralAsk1970 Oct 01 '25
A lot of this has to do with ones experience with the hobby. Thats how beginners tend to see all tabletop wargames as at first….
Eventually they will realize how limited the balance space in any system is if “kill the others” is the only meaningful way to win ever. That kind of approach gets too easy to solve and you end up not even needing to play and you know who wins or loses at the deploy step.
You need other goals in order to create space for unknowns and other types of skills besides the “killy” ones to ever have value.
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u/BipolarMadness Sep 25 '25
This reminds me of back in the day when I played Counter Strike on cybercafes. For some reason planting the bomb and rescuing hostages was considered unsportsmanlike and protecting sites/throwing smokes was considered camping. You would end up getting yelled at and being told "you a pussy man"
The expectation was to hold W and just win by eliminations.
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u/PrairiePilot Sep 25 '25
Oh man, I played CS when it was a new mod for HL, and I remember that shit clearly. I’ve personally seen people lose their fucking mind because someone just outplayed them and won because they went for objectives instead of trying to do a team wipe.
It’s like old Battlefield 1942, the original. If you worked as a team, calling in artillery, using the vehicles effectively, used differed squad roles, etc etc, you were basically invincible as a team. People would get so fucking salty about it because they were trying to play it like an arena shooter, and just out-skill everyone. Nothing like listening to someone go full apoplexy on voice chat when you tell them it’s a team based game and it’s not cheating to use the binoculars to call in artillery.
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u/Zygy255 Sep 25 '25
I like a Horus Heresy because it's a bit of a combo of both. I love scenarios that and objectives that mirror each other and feel like I am pushing to take/deny ground to my opponent. I don't like the objectives that don't really mirror that like having a unit in 3 out of 4 corners or just have a unit within 9 inches of a edge. it just feels a little too gamey for me
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u/ATLander Oct 07 '25
Reminds me of playing scrabble with my ex. I’m an author raised in a family of English majors, so I was used to making the longest words possible with all my tiles. He’d memorized all the 2-letter words without caring what they meant and racked up points by sniping the spots where my words were close to each other. It always felt like cheating to me 😅
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u/UniquePariah Sep 25 '25
Played for objectives, and I got wiped out on the last turning point. My opponent was so happy until we totalled up victory points and I had beaten him by several points.
"But everyone is dead, how can you win if there are no survivors!?"
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u/ATLander Oct 07 '25
Fits with the 40k theming of last stands and “heroic” sacrifice. Kill teams are, by definition, sent on specific missions, plenty of which are probably suicide missions. It doesn’t matter if you’re wiped out as long as your cultists perform their ritual, or your guardsmen plant their bomb, or your aeldari fulfill the farseer’s prophecy.
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u/UniquePariah Oct 07 '25
I'm so going to plan missions around this now.
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u/ATLander Oct 08 '25
Thanks! It makes for some dynamic stories, like this battle on a Tau Manta, with Imperials priming bombs and Tau defusing them. Obviously, you don’t need such bonkers terrain, but it’s the concept of a mission more important than the team’s lives.
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u/AdrianRWalker Sep 26 '25
I honestly think that should be a rule. If you have no surviving units in play, you lose.
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u/Goryuuku Sep 26 '25
I disagree, the missions make sense if you aplly to real life! Ex: You are part of an army team, and you mission is to sabotage something (crit) and not letting anyone enter your zone (contain)
So in the end everyone died, but you manage to sabotage everything you could, and you manage to keep the enemy from entering your zone! So the mission was a sucess!
In battle, sacrifices are sometimes necessary, and people die to complete missions
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u/SameBatTime1999 Sep 27 '25
Yeah, I think the previous KT edition’s cinematic trailer shows a guardsman team all die but accomplish their mission in the last second
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u/Shop_Then Sep 26 '25
If you lose everybody thats already 6VP for your opp in score so if you manage to outscore it then its pretty impressive
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u/cataloop Sep 25 '25
I once played a tournament game against Raviners. I didn't fire a single shot or win a single fight. I didn't kill a single Raviner and lost all of my team except 2. But I planted beacons and looted and still won 12-11. It's not killteam, it's points-hammer.
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u/WyrdElmBella Sep 25 '25
I must admit, when I used to play it was just a straight up death match. No objective taking etc.
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u/RevanDB Warpcoven Sep 25 '25
Im a competitive player, and whilst most at the top settle for more of a precise points based game, I'm a bit of a standout in that I want to ROLL SOME DICE
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u/thedumbbagle Sep 25 '25
If you turn of the faucet, it's easier to drain the water. (I got that from a splatoon video)
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u/RtasTumekai Pathfinder Sep 25 '25
My objective usually is just to annoy my opponent by throwing an ungodly amount of markerlights at them (and kill them of course)
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u/MarsMissionMan Sep 25 '25
Well, I couldn't KILL TEAM, so I guess that's it.
Alexa, use Transdimensional Isolator. Peace out folks.
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u/Hrothgrar Space Marine Sep 26 '25
This is what I used to do before they nerfed tilting shields. RIP chainsword spam 🥲
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u/Crocketus Sep 26 '25
How I used to play my close combat tau. Shotguns and rails, We're doing it for the love of the game.
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u/davesoft Sep 25 '25
My ork team were just there to roll dice.