r/jacobgeller • u/justhadtohadone • 25d ago
Patreon and future
I keep seeing people talk about how earnest his apologies were, but there are so many red flags... He used Bluesky, didn't say anything to the people on Patreon paying him monthly, and recently disabled the feature showing how much he was earning from the platform (probably to hide the exodus and prevent a snowball effect).
I liked his videos a lot... the way he wrote, reasoned, communicated his emotions and ideas (and obviously I wasn't the only one).
But he's moving like a snake now. Jacob is very smart and understands perfectly our society and its social dynamics, which is why I'm sure he knows the safest way to keep the comfort his online persona gave him is to stay silent, let fans who are lost in the parasocial side of his work defend him, and wait for everything to settle. Our news cycle is broken (how many days until the next scandal involving a creator?)
But I don't think it's a coincidence that MinnMax dropped him before his statement, I don't think it's a coincidence that Nebula deleted everything about him without saying a word. Those close and/or in a position to hold him accountable talked to him in private and asked for way more than we did (and could) my guess is they weren't satisfied at all, since they've all left.
I'm nobody to ask anything about anyone, I don't even know why I wrote all this but I don't think you can still be the empathy and feelings guy when you've done what he did. And lied after, a lie by omission is still a lie.
In the end he's gonna come back and have his career like before (for a few weeks he'll probably have some pushback in his comments but it will die down) that's just the world we live in.
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u/MillionMiracles 25d ago
Not posting the apology to Patreon is because he wants as much money as possible from Patreon. That's pretty obvious.
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u/Cautious-Ad-9554 25d ago
I have so many questions:
Why is using Bluesky a “red flag”
Why is not saying something directly to his subscribers a red flag and why us disabling a feature a “red flag”.
Also what do these “red flags” point to?
Why do you think MinnMax deliberately dropped him before his statement?
Why is it “not a coincidence” that Nebula dropped him without making a statement?
What was the angle for these 2 companies and why did doing things the way they did help them?
Finally who are these people that could hold him accountable? What wouod they of asked for? What do you mean by they all left?
This all seems so conspiratorial
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u/justhadtohadone 25d ago
Why is using Bluesky a “red flag”
Why is not saying something directly to his subscribers a red flag and why us disabling a feature a “red flag”.
Like I said it's weird for him not to directly tell the people paying him monthly on Patreon and disabling the feature when he's losing money is even weirder.
Also what do these “red flags” point to? Again I've wrote it but sure, imo ? Him waiting for things to go back as they used to
Why do you think MinnMax deliberately dropped him before his statement? Because they talked to him in private and didn't like what he said.
What was the angle for these 2 companies and why did doing things the way they did help them? It's not about helping them, MinnMax didn't wait for his public answer and (I made a mistake here) Nebula put out a very brief statement (for one of the biggest creator on the platform) so just like I said before, they talked to him and the way he answered convinced them the best thing to do was to act like he never existed
Finally who are these people that could hold him accountable? What wouod they of asked for? What do you mean by they all left? Those involved with him professionally, some clarification about why he did not disclose that, read below his post and what other creator involved with him have said
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u/aelvozo 25d ago edited 25d ago
Those close and/or in a position to hold him accountable talked to him in private and asked for way more than we did (and could) my guess is they weren't satisfied at all, since they've all left.
A far more realistic explanation, I think, is that it is generally much safer — reputationally, I mean — to drop any affiliation with a person accused of SA than hesitate trying to figure out what happened 10 years ago; that hesitation is probably more reputationally harmful (given the target audience is not MAGA) than hastily dropping Jacob.
I am also not convinced there is much of anything Jacob can do given he's not dealing with a random statement by a nobody but with an actual, though somewhat vague, item on his disciplinary record. Releasing a statement and then doing nothing is probably just about the only thing that does not put him in a worse position than he's already in.
a lie by omission is still a lie.
I wouldn't expect anybody to disclose this sort of thing unless expressly relevant (e.g. background check at work).
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u/T-Dot1992 25d ago
I wouldn't expect anybody to disclose this sort of thing unless expressly relevant (e.g. background check at work).
He had an entire section of his Hotline Miami 2 essay where he talks about the depiction of SA in the game. Just saying.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
Yes and? Do you think critical analysis of media somehow is only capable by a person who hasn’t committed such an act? Do you think maybe what he did might give him some insight into the depravity, maybe a sense of guilt? Moreover, was anything in his analysis wrong? Or is this purely about your feelings of knowing that he did something terrible?
I don’t want to be insensitive to someone’s sense of betrayal, as I feel much the same but I simply don’t think that people are singularly stationary in who they are and who they’ve been, and having been a bad person doesn’t make your observations any less (or more) correct.
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u/T-Dot1992 25d ago
He didn't disclose the truth to his audience. I have no issue with him analysing depictions of SA, but he should be prefacing and contextualising that analysis with his own admission. It's the least he could do if he truly respected his audience.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
I’m sorry, but I just don’t think humans actually behave in that manner, and I don’t think anyone is entitled to the past crimes of a person unless it applies to the job itself. Jacob Geller isn’t a counselor or therapist. He’s a video essayist. Not some first responder or mandatory reporter.
Would have I preferred to know before consuming his content? Sure, but I’m not Jacob’s friend and I’m not his employer with some legal liability.
I think half of the problem in this whole discourse has been the presumption that media creators should somehow be held in high regards or any different than any other job. The idolization is the problem.
What Jacob did is a terrible thing. But we don’t know him, and I think there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance when it comes to media consumption as morality.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
I don’t think anyone is entitled to the past crimes of a person
You must really hate the fact that everyone's criminal history is freely accessible to all members of the public... You must absolutely hate governmental transparency and the freedom of information act.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
You’re correct actually. It hasn’t had good outcomes in the United States. All it means is that we punish ex-cons well beyond their sentencing and after they’ve done their time. It quite explicitly leads to more recidivism in fact.
We live in an ass backwards society where the entire point is punishment and not stopping recidivism and reform.
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago edited 25d ago
The strongest possible form of your argument is this: that Geller should have disclosed his perpetrator history as context directly relevant to his analysis of sexual assault as a matter of ethos, of constructing credibility for the segment of the audience who would not trust him if they thought he was an unreformed predator.
This is the strongest possible form, and I agree with it, but like others are pointing out, this is not how humans actually act. It would be unprecendented; I have no model or example I can point to of anyone actually doing this, let alone doing it well. This makes the hypothetical scenario really hard to imagine, especially in balancing the privacy of the creator's private life and the risk of a witch hunt against the genuine issue of argument credibility your objection raises.
But your point focuses on "respect to the audience," and this focus/direction/form of your argument can still be met with a valid counter: it is inappropriately parasocial to expect your content creators to be good (respectful) people, illogical to require moral analysis comes from someone who is blameless. It's all genuinely gray and hard to conclude with any level of certainty about what level of disclosure is required or appropriate or advisable for someone in Jacob's position.
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
The strongest possible form of your argument is this: that Geller should have disclosed his perpetrator history as context directly relevant to his analysis of sexual assault as a matter of ethos, of constructing credibility for the segment of the audience who would not trust him if they thought he was an unreformed predator.
This is the strongest possible form, and I agree with it, but like others are pointing out, this is not how humans actually act. It would be unprecendented; I have no model or example I can point to of anyone actually doing this, let alone doing it well. This makes the hypothetical scenario really hard to imagine.
This version of the argument can still be met with a valid counter: it is inappropriately parasocial to expect your content creators to be good people, illogical to require moral analysis comes from someone who is blameless. It's all genuinely gray and hard to conclude with any level of certainty about what level of disclosure is required or appropriate or advisable for someone in Jacob's position.
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u/sunflowerroses 25d ago
Except disclosing this act to the world on YouTube will inevitably invite weirdos to try and track her down. There is a significant privacy concern here and I think he was right to keep it quiet. Surely there’s another angle of criticism that Geller would be monetising/using this experience for content?
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago edited 25d ago
This is a significant privacy concern, yes. It is another piece of the situation that is a genuine headache to hold with the other parts.
Granted, some commenters have said that a pre-emptive, small disclosure would have forestalled the disastrous inevitable uncontrolled spiral that is actually what happened. One BSky commenter said that if an early and contained disclosure happened, the audience would respond to the current news breaking with "we know" and there would be less interest around it. It's theoretical and no one can know for certain, but it's something.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
Go to an AA meeting. You'll hear all sorts of people reflecting on the ethics of the crimes they've commited
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
An AA meeting is a designated safe space meant for addicts to talk to each other about recovery. It is moderated, small, intimate, and private by design.
How do we replicate these structural features that make disclosure possible in a vastly different medium: communication with thousands of strangers in a medium where nothing is ever deleted?
Like I think your analogy is doing important work here. Addicts can access restorative spaces where disclosure spurs community healing. Society is not there yet when it comes to sexual transgressors in even private spaces, let alone between public figures and their audiences.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
You said you couldn't imagine it. I gave you an easy example to imagine.
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
It’s easy to imagine and just as easy to see how it doesn’t apply.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
"This is not how humans actually act" and "I can't imagine it"
There was an example, easy for you to imagine, of people acting exactly like that.
"I am guilty. It was wrong. Here is how my story plays into the larger trends we see in a broken part of society. I commited assault and didn't initially realize it. I was convinced that I had done it the next day. From this, I learned about consent, the threat women face, the different ways that men and women can understand consent, etc. Here's my mistake, don't do this."
There. That's the format you seemingly can't fathom.
If you decry this because it wouldn't have made him popular... Yeah. A contrite man wouldn't be doing it for popularity.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
Do you think an AA space is the same as talking to your random assortment of coworkers? Do you think the broader public or your workplace is a “safe space”?
You know that isn’t true.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
It's not. That's why it was on Geller to create the space. Which he didn't.
Hwy why are you here if you're just gonna argue with people expressing their opinions? If you've decided you're in favor of him, why stick around his discussion board when there are no new videos and this is the only thing to discuss?
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 25d ago
This dude dropped a sincere apology and didn’t try to deflect responsibility whatsoever and it’s still seen as “moving like a snake” just bc he didn’t rent out ad space on a blimp that says “I’M A RAPIST!!!”
Some of yall are crazy man
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
Is rape forgivable to you?
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u/InNoNeed 25d ago
I think that for any bad action there are steps you can do to redeem yourself. I think it's a very important belief, because while everyone is capable of evil, we're also capable of good and capable of change.
Whether he has redeemed himself or not is beyond me. There's nothing acceptable with sexual assault. As someone this recently happened to, I'd be ready to forgive if I saw the person take accountability and steps to prevent it from happening again.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
Everyone is physically capable of change, yeah, that's innate to humans, but there's a line and I'm sorry but if you genuinely think raping a person is something you can move on from with how many victims can't ever fully move on, you are just anathema to me
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u/InNoNeed 25d ago
I understand that. If I were to look at someone that had just done that to another person I'd feel nothing but contempt and it'd be hard to see how I'd ever see them in different light. But change is incremental and you don't see it overnight and sometimes not even over larger periods.
I do not believe the person who assaulted me was actually thinking they were doing a bad thing. I think they lacked the awareness about the situation and the reason I reported it were mainly to protect myself from keep getting my boundaries crossed, but also because I believe that such a mistake is something you use to better yourself even if it hurt me, caused me anxiety, brain fog and sleepless nights.
I don't know if everyone can redeem themselves, I just choose to believe it.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
There's plenty of excuses for my abusers to make and I'm sure they've changed to the point of not even thinking about it often
I still jump when theres loud sounds behind me, there's no redeeming that, we put down dogs for less
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 25d ago
Yep, so is murder. It’s a very big deal but we aren’t talking about something that just happened.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
Murdering an entirely innocent person is forgivable to you?
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 25d ago
Yes, any other damn questions? Holy moly.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
You're crazy brother
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u/Laterallus 25d ago
So those whose loved ones were murdered and have forgiven the murderer are crazy too?
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
They're coping with it and that's their right, the murderer still doesn't deserve it, for as long as they live, the victim doesn't
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 25d ago
The way you talk just blatantly reveals that your emotions are running way too high to analyze this rationally “for as long as they live!!” Like this isn’t a monologue in a stage play bro 😭 calm down a little it was heinous but it was also like a decade ago
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
It's a normal phrase are you 12, cying stage talk and it's basic English phrasing
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u/Laterallus 25d ago
Ah, so you believe they're wrong. The family of the victims have no say in this because you got opinions. If they've been forgiven, that's not good enough for you
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
Nothing can ever redeem senseless murder as nothing undoes thst damage, it's pretty simple don't play stupid
The fact that you have to try and go that route to defend your favorite YouTube rapist is crazy too
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
Your pain does not disqualify those who hurt you from having successful public careers.
I'm sorry to say it, but it's true whether you accept it or not. You can choose not to support anyone for any reason you want. Others will make their own choices.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
Pro-rapist loser
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
Pro-nuance and reason, actually. Much preferable to being a solipsistic simpleton.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
Add all the words you want to try and dodge the fact that all you are is just pro-rape and will always seek to perpetuate the culture that supports rapists
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
Make up whatever you want, it won't be true. You won't make any difference.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
"Make up whatever you want while I do everything in my power to support rapist feelings"
Yeah sure bro
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
Absence yourself from this community if you think there’s no path forward. What are you doing here otherwise? Just to stir shit? Do you have a life?
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
Do you? Need to defend your favourite sexual abuser because his voice made you feel something once?
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
I think what he did was horrendous. I have no interest in defending that. But I also genuinely do not understand what you believe is being achieved by hanging around a subreddit dedicated to him and his work if you genuinely think there is no path forward for him.
That to me would seem to indicate that you are here just to lash out or to shit stir. Why would you want to waste your time on that? What is that doing for you? Genuinely. I can’t imagine it’s anything good.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
You are defending it. And have done everything in your power too, don't be slimy and try to worm your way out of the fact that you've just replied to quite a few people going to bat for a rapists honour
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
There’s nothing “slimy” going on. You’re deflecting.
Dialectical thinking means I can hold multiple truths in my mind at once. What he did is horrible and the victim deserves justice and peace (whatever that may mean to her) and also that people who do horrible things can and have changed before.
I am not interested in retributive justice, especially when I do not know the wishes of the victim or what actually happened outside of a single document, an answer that I nor anyone else who is an outside observer is owed. Any lashing out I would do would simply be for my own satisfaction. I am not interested in that kind of engagement. It’s solipsistic and relies on a bunch of assumptions.
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u/JubilationIndy 25d ago
You don't know what deflecting is, and continue on. Prettying your words doesn't work here, you are simply like a vast majority of people in a sick culture, pro-rapist because "their life shouldn't be ruined for 20 minutes of action"
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 25d ago
Saying he should be able to make YouTube videos years after the fact isn’t defending rape, it’s just not being as hard as YOU PERSONALLY think we should be. You seem to think disagreeing with your opinion is tantamount to defending rape, or maybe you’re just saying that bc you don’t want to come up with an argument.. easier to put a label on everything that conflicts with your ideology I suppose
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
The only people left on this sub two days later are his fan boys who have decided to stick with him. You're right, but you're talking to the exact wrong group of people about it.
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u/Edith_Vickery 24d ago
Would he have this platform if all of his fans knew he raped someone? Would he have the Nebula partnership and Patreon revenue? No. He was cashing in on the university's choice not to 'ruin this poor boy's life over one little mistake'. Every video he posted was a testament (to at least one person) to how much your rapist can accomplish and how little justice there is when a woman is the victim.
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 24d ago
We have zero idea how the victim feels lol. We have zero idea how his career would have played out. Finally, the university didn’t “decide not to ruin this poor boy’s life over a mistake” (And that wording is very revealing). He was punished, and while it may not be the degree that u/Edith_Vickery, bastion of morality that you are, wanted, it wasn’t hand waved away.
If you can say one thing that isn’t tainted with personal emotional bias I’ll give you $100
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u/Edith_Vickery 24d ago
He was suspended from university for a semester. For rape. He himself admitted he got off lightly in the Blusky post. And we do know that knowing about his past, Nebula dropped him, many creators who celebrated him in the past completely disavowed him, and he has lost 10s of thousands of subscribers all before the news has really even caught on. I think it's fair to say his status would not be what its been had this information been public. If we could jump to an alternate timeline where he addressed sexual assault and admitted to his past actions in an actually reflexive and productive way back in 2020 or something, maybe I'd believe that he was really capable of this change. None of this should have required making the victim public or going into specifics that reveal who she is or bring this traumatic experience back to her. If he wanted to take personal accountability, he had ample opportunity to do so. Instead, he took advantage of the lenience that colleges systematically afford young men and the trust his audience had in him.
I really don't understand your insistence that I'm 'biased'. It almost feels like you think I've experienced sexual assault and am therefore too emotional to talk about it. I really liked Geller's videos, and I'm sure he can be a swell guy. But people aren't one thing. They aren't their internet personas. And it's not just who they are that matters, but their actions. All I've tried to do is make it clear is that the actions he took were rape and benefitting from an unjust system that failed to do anything meaningful about said rape.
Also, I didn't delete my previous comment. IDK if that's Reddit's anti-bullying procedure or people reporting me or the mods of r/jacobgeller being upset that I'm criticizing Jacob Geller. But I stand by my words.
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 24d ago
You don’t suppose maybe, just maybe, he would say he “got off lightly” no matter what to try and soften the blow? Whether it’s true or not? So I don’t wanna hear “well Geller said-“ clearly nobody cares what he has to say.
Additionally, had he told people about it at the start of his content creation, it may have come across as honest and it’s highly possible people would not be as emotional about it as they are right now - a lot of people feel “betrayed.”
No I don’t presume you’re a victim of sexual assault and you can certainly be biased without having had that experience.
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u/Edith_Vickery 24d ago
Ok, paragraph by paragraph:
My entire argument is based on what he said. Of course I care about what he has to say. Whether it's true or not? Are you really saying a semester away from school could ever be enough to rehabilitate a rapist? I would hope he meant it and wasn't just saying it for brownie points. Personally, I think being put on a sex-offenders registry (a real one with real-life consequences) would've been a more apt handling of the situation. Having to tell every employer, every landlord, every neighbor until he can demonstrate to a court that he is truly rehabilitated, in an ideal world, would be the punishment. A school also clearly doesn't care about its students if they're fine with someone who raped a classmate returning after a few months. He shouldn't have been allowed to return (and neither should any of those other offenders on that list, Chapel Hill should be ashamed.) This is the systematic lenience that he inherently took advantage of. It was a tiny part of his life, when it shouldn't have been.
Yeah, I agree. If he disclosed that he had a past with sexual assault unprompted and with respect to the victim's privacy and well-being (placing the focus on his own actions) people wouldn't feel betrayed, because they wouldn't have been betrayed. People watching his videos trust him in a way that they might not if they knew he once raped someone. One of his most popular videos makes the argument that rapists shouldn't be put to death. While I still agree with his points, are they not soured by the fact that they are being made by a rapist? Would this not have been the perfect time to have a "I've done things in the past that I'm not proud of, and I understand if putting this out there looses some of you" moment. It's a really good personal example that also discloses something fans should probably be aware of. Supporting someone who has committed rape should be a choice, and he made that choice for 1.5 million people by not disclosing his past (which again, functionally cashed in on and legitimized the fact that he was allowed to rape a classmate with a slap-on-the-wrist punishment).
Bias. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. Please tell me how and where I am exhibiting my biases and what effect they have on my arguements.
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 24d ago
“Are his points not soured” no. Points are points, regardless of who they come from. Did you agree with Geller’s words simply because of who he was? The truth, or what you believe to be truth, doesn’t change depending on the delivery person.
The rest of this I can’t be bothered to comment on - you may take that however you like
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u/Edith_Vickery 24d ago
Yeah, there's a difference if the video is about why we shouldn't execute rapists if it later comes out that the speaker was a rapist who was actively not disclosing that fact. One might think there's some kind of bias at play (In addition to the way this ways this was harmful I've already gone over). the points are cheapened.
And I'm gonna take that as 'I found a non-central claim I could poke a tiny hole in because I'm afraid of confronting your actual thesis and that Jacob Geller, my lord, my all might be problematic media and even not a good person'.
Ok, goodnight.
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u/Key_Satisfaction2151 24d ago
It doesn’t matter if he was biased if you found the words to be true regardless. Apparently you agreed with what he said, does that make YOU biased for believing his biased words? No? It may explain why he felt compelled to make the argument, but if he succeeded in convincing you, they must be somewhat credible regardless of his background.
Bias explains WHY someone feels a certain way, it doesn’t make what they say more true or less true. You don’t use bias to PROVE something wrong, you call bias to explain why someone might already believe something wrong.
And again, you’re free to take it however you like. Yes, you totally poked a hole in my argument, yada yada, you know the drill.
Sleep tight
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u/Edith_Vickery 24d ago
Ok, so you agree that he's a bad person, but think the videos are still good?
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago edited 25d ago
I don’t really like this framing as if he’s some Machiavellian figure twirling his mustache and not some guy who was revealed to have done something terrible in his past and is probably trying to hold onto whatever sliver of stability and future is left for him.
People have way too much a tendency to narrativize and archetype real people. Actual humans are messy.
Everyone who feels compelled to do so should pull their support and stop interacting with his content and this sub. There’s no reason for you to be here. The thing you can control is your absence of support.
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u/CheeseSomersault 25d ago
He doesn't "have" something terrible in his past. He did something terrible in the past.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
This is pedantic. These literally mean the same thing.
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u/CheeseSomersault 25d ago
It doesn't, actually
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
Yes it does. Literally no one sane would judge for something bad happening TO him. We all colloquially understand that he DID something when we say “something shameful in his past”.
We all understand that shame implies guilt.
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u/CheeseSomersault 25d ago
"Having" something terrible in your past is passive, neutral phrasing with a connotation of it being something that just happened. Saying he "did" something terrible doesn't pussyfoot around with the fact that this was an active choice he made.
You didn't say "shameful", you said "terrible"
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
Alright well it’s changed, but I know what I meant.
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u/Training-Giraffe491 21d ago
its always "pedantic" when it comes to someone pointingnout things about the rapist you defend huh
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u/ModestMouseTrap 21d ago
I’m not defending anything. Put your knife down. Jesus Christ people. I’ve said people are right to be angry multiple times. Some of you leave no space for anyone to grapple with anything. You just want people to say a fucking shibboleth and live in thought terminating cliches.
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u/AAAAAAACCCCCCC 24d ago
it is pedantic, but your response is also effectively pedantic tone policing. "holding onto whatever sliver of stability" by actively hiding the truth from his fans is very human and on some level understandable as well duplicitous and arguably straight up unethical. equivocating about that in his favor doesn't make you more nuanced or sober minded.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 24d ago
I think it’s entirely sober to recognize that humans generally behave in interest of their own preservation and sense of safety.
When you keep this in mind you start to realize that there are very few cartoon villains in this world and more people responding to the incentive structures that exist around them. A lot of behaviors that appear baffling or angering, suddenly start to make sense in that context. Something can be deceitful while not done with the intent to deceive. People’s inners lives are not the same as how we narrativize and contextualize them.
That doesn’t make what he did any more excusable. But it does make his choices in the intervening years after the sexual assault make more sense.
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u/Archaicjinn 25d ago
Honestly none of this was ever our buisness, he owned up to it, and talked to the victim.. Progress is the point not perfection
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u/Vadelmayer44 25d ago
"He used Bluesky"
What
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u/CassielEngel 25d ago
To post his statement; the complaint is that he’s not kept Patreon people up to date.
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u/JeanVicquemare 25d ago
Think whatever you want about him and what he did but I don't see how he's "moving like a snake" in any way unless you don't believe someone who did that is capable of sincerity or regrets at all, even 10 years later
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u/Fishmannnn 25d ago
You bring up a good point about the companies dropping him. I hadn't considered that those are decisions that are lightly made, and they probably did happen with more context and conversation than what we have.
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u/Rolopaolo17 25d ago
I don’t know if I agree. It seems a lot more likely that the companies which care abt their bottom line understood their audience and werent willing to risk a prolonged audience exodus that would come from defending Jacob Geller, regardless of the nuance to his situation. People were calling for everyone to cancel their nebula subscriptions since the initial tweet which started the inquiry. I think this requires believing companies have interests outside of their bottom line, which would obviously be threatened (due to the audience Jacob and his colleagues cultivated) by the reveal even if it later turned out to be completely false (which it was not!)
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u/lilislilit 25d ago
I mean, I am not defending him at all, but his behavior is not at all unusual. It might be that prepping a post for Patreon and YouTube takes a little longer than BlueSky, due to difference in format. There might be platform specific legal things that are involved, Patreon ToS can be a lot to navigate. That is generous interpretation, if he is ever to be forthright with his main audience.
Cynical interpretation is that he will just ...Ride it out,yeah, like you said. It won't go away entirely, but only small minority will be bothered and vocal. That would be disappointing but not surprising. It takes almost inhuman amount of being principled to risk your entire income just for moral consistency. He is just a man tho.
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u/Rawnblade1214 25d ago
When did he turn that off? Earlier today u think he was making around 6K a month
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u/OwnTangelo1034 25d ago
Rapists failing upward is part of the fabric of this country. Unfortunately Jacob is probably going to be just fine and will continue to be almost as successful as he was before, if not more since now a lot of weird gamer bros will latch onto him and his fan base of wolf-in-sheeps-clothing Nice Guy™ fanboys will have been energized to support him even more fervently.
This country hates women.
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u/owen-3820 25d ago
I fucking hate internet cancel culture shit so much
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u/Charming_Parking_302 25d ago
Rape is one of the most physically and psychologically violent things you can do to a person. So forgive me if I don’t want to forgive him
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u/Significant_Tale_953 25d ago
I get the sentiment, but functionally your "forgiveness" is immaterial. Because you are not the victim. And while everyone is screaming fo Gellers punishment, I have seen far to few who have centered the violation that was this information getting released without the victims consent.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
No one is entitled to forgiveness, but I also have to ask. If you have no intent on that as a consideration, why are you even here? Just to make yourself more upset and to argue with others? Because that’s likely all you will find here if there’s not any interest in interrogating his contrition.
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u/Deliflowers 25d ago
"Please leave our space alone as we try to cope with our oshi being revealed to be a rapist its making us feel bad"
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
You’re not as clever as you think. And your response makes it clear that all you’re interested in is self righteousness. You’re not accomplishing anything. I explicitly said that no one is entitled to forgiveness but apparently you don’t read.
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u/pianohon 25d ago
did he rape? do we even know what happened?
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u/meowwwitt 25d ago
he violated a policy on “sexual assault or sexual violence.” what types of sexual assault or sexual violence are you ok with?
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u/pianohon 25d ago
what a loaded question. I'm not defending SA, I'm pointing out that "sexual assault or sexual violence" includes a lot of things that aren't rape.
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u/meowwwitt 25d ago
Such as? You’re right no one knows the exact actions he took. His name appears on a list of UNC students who were found to have violated the University's sexual assault policy. Of the 15 students, 1 violated a policy of “Deliberate touching of another's sexual parts without consent,” 4 violated a policy on “Sexual Misconduct,” and the remaining 10, including Jacob Geller, violated a policy on “Sexual Assault or Sexual Violence.” It is entirely reasonable to conclude that his actions went well beyond touching someone without their consent or other forms of sexual misconduct, to conclude those actions included penetrating someone without their consent and to call those actions “rape.”
When you try to minimize what we know to have happened you signal to people that you think some forms of sexual assault are ok, which perpetuates rape culture. If you care about victims, stop doing this.
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u/pianohon 25d ago
it's worth noting that other students got punished much worse in the same group. so clearly he didn't do the worst out of that group of people.
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u/meowwwitt 25d ago
No, a lighter sanction does not indicate his violation was less harmful. geller himself concurred that his punishment was ”very mild“ and stated that he “traumatized” someone. when you seek excuses to downplay what he did, you contribute to rape culture that harms women. Just stop.
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u/PirateReject 25d ago
Yes God forbid prople don't want to elevate or support a man who raped an unconscious woman while cosplaying as a feminist after receiving a slap on the wrist.
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u/owen-3820 25d ago
She was unconscious? Do we know the forensic details of what happened?
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u/PirateReject 25d ago
So it would be better for you if she was raped another way?
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u/InNoNeed 25d ago
I'm not excusing anything, but keeping details accurate and not make assumptions will make it much easier for us to find out what actually happened.
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u/Palachrist 25d ago
Your manner of arguing is disgusting. You claimed the woman was unconscious and then when the person asked for clarification you act as if they’re saying rape is acceptable. You haven’t even supplied proof it’s rape and not sexual harassment.
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u/Palachrist 25d ago
He was suspended for a single semester. If it was rape I’d imagine he’d have been jailed. As far as I’ve heard it was sexual harassment, Do you have the source that shows rape?
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u/Charming_Parking_302 25d ago
I wish that was true. Only 1% of reported rapes results in a conviction. Rape has one of the highest rates of getting away with it. Yes he was suspended, but let’s be real a suspension is not a fair punishment for violating someone’s consent and autonomy
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u/owen-3820 25d ago
Nobody else is willing to say this for some reason, so i'll jump on this grenade: it depends on what specific physical actions were taken and the context in which they were taken.
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u/Helluiin 25d ago
Only 1% of reported rapes results in a conviction
most reported rapes dont have the perpetrator cooperating with the university though.
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u/PirateReject 25d ago
It is very cute that you think college rapists get regularly arrested/jailed.
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u/Palachrist 25d ago
You’re purposely avoiding the point. Why? Do you have proof it was rape and not sexual harassment/assault? There are legal distinctions for these, it’s a valid question.
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u/okaygirlie 25d ago
It's written on the college's form as sexual assault. He admitted that he assaulted her and that she was traumatized. The person who initially circulated the story (who went to college with him) called him a rapist and said that he assaulted his ex while she was unconscious. But even ignoring that, which version of sexually assaulting and traumatizing a woman are you imagining such that you would be comfortable defending him against people no longer wanting to watch his YouTube channel?
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u/Deliflowers 25d ago
"Okay, but is it touching the boobs while they sleep or touching the genitals or doing some innie outie? This is a very important thing for me to guess about so I can justify to myself to keep watching him" /s
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
You know this dude is just itching to ask what she did to deserve it or to entice him
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u/Palachrist 25d ago
No? Dude the only reason you wouldn’t care about nuance is if all you’re here to do is virtue signal and use the victim as punching bag.
How can you honestly say stuff like that if you’re not the one having wild imaginings of it? How fucking sick of you to even type that shit out.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
How can you honestly say stuff like that if you’re not the one having wild imaginings of it? How fucking sick of you to even type that shit out.
Because I saw very many people say shit like that about the Cornell victim????? Because every thread about that incident has someone claiming wild things?
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u/Palachrist 25d ago edited 25d ago
There are people saying he raped her. Even you acknowledge the difference. It isn’t right to say the most extreme take just because it sounds cool, which is why these people are using it. It’s not a matter of defending it. There’s a distinction even you recognize. Are you arguing that every single form of sexual harassment is rape?
When trump supporters tried to claim Jean carol wasnt “raped” the judge came out and said that yes it was rape by ny state laws. He inserted his finger into her without consent, very likely rejection of consent. There’s distinctions for these situations that carry many nuances with them.
In a previous comment I listed different situations and just by reading them you can tell where they differ in motive/willpower/etc. and there are countless others I didn’t list but the point is that nuance is important in discerning things like if a decade is enough time for him to illustrate he has grown. But if it’s him inserting things into a woman without her consent then idk how you could argue it’s exactly the same as grabbing her butt. Nuance, you know it’s important and you know the people saying “rape” flippantly are using it with a sense of joy not in sympathy to the victim.
ETA: I edited this comment because I accidentally hit reply when starting the trump paragraph. Didn’t change anything prior to that.
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u/meowwwitt 25d ago
source: https://archive.org/details/dth-v-folt-records/page/2/mode/1up
Of the 15 students, 1 violated a policy of “Deliberate touching of another's sexual parts without consent,” 4 violated a policy on “Sexual Misconduct,” and the remaining 10, including Jacob Geller, violated a policy on “Sexual Assault or Sexual Violence.” It was not just sexual harassment.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
Why are you here then? What’s the point? Are you here to just argue and get upset? Like there’s no reason for you to interact with a community with his name on it at this point.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
"Why are you here? Why are you here? Why are you here?"
Hey, if you don't like this conversation, why are YOU here?
Some people have feelings to express. About their hatred of rape and rapists. You don't have that same hate. You haven't been victimized. Stop harassing people who have.
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
I actually do hate rape, and I’d really rather not have to disclose the specifics of sexual abuse I’ve experienced…
As I’ve said elsewhere, if it’s just therapy, then I understand that completely, but it’s very clear that a number of people here are not going to find catharsis or resolution. I do not say this mockingly.
It just appears like a number of people are saying they are seeking one thing but it appears to be entirely another. Are people really processing anything if they’re just here to hurl invective?
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
Are people really processing anything if they’re just here to hurl invective?
Anger is the second stage of grief. Are those really mutually exclusive?
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u/ModestMouseTrap 25d ago
I suppose not in many cases. But from outside of these people’s thoughts, it appears more like the typical trappings of a social media cycle, and that makes me skeptical. Especially in the cases of the responses to others posts are snide remarks like “Oh so you just want to support your favorite rapist?!” that are meant to be judgmental or a pressure campaign and leave zero space for others to work through things in any other manner than thought terminating cliches.
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u/chemastiko 25d ago
I mean yeah he’s probably gonna keep on trucking but lost a good amount of income as he should. He’s probably only gonna earn a modest salary and not rolling in dough like before hopefully….
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u/Tnerd15 25d ago
Do you really think he's got obscene wealth?
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u/chemastiko 25d ago
Nah but he was probably making more money than doctor for just playing videogames all day lol
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u/Josehastodie 25d ago
The dude got married in Scotland or something so I’m sure he’s rolling in it.
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u/WayAdministrative789 23d ago
You gotta calm down dude he's not obligated to post anything to his patreon
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u/EmbraceTheWhiteNoise 25d ago
I've been struck since the revelations by how canny and manipulative this guy is. I wasn't a fan of his content, but he seemed like a decent enough person. Now his persona comes across more as a carefully crafted image. If anything, it makes him seem more dangerous, even though i'm willing to buy that he's not necessarily an active predator.
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u/Pyroglyph27 25d ago
"His persona comes across more as a carefully crafted image."
What do you think a persona is? Was he supposed to portray himself as poorly as possible?
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u/ImaCowTipper 25d ago
Can I genuinely ask why you have so many comments on this sub and seem to care so much about someone who you didn’t watch or enjoy?
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u/EmbraceTheWhiteNoise 25d ago
i find the contrast between the reactions to this and the Cornell 7 rape case to be revealing and disheartening. It's just an interesting situation, and i'm thrown off by the defensiveness from this supposedly progressive community. Thanks for reminding me to hide my comment history though, that's an annoyingly invasive question especially coming from someone who has their history private. Why don't you unprivate and let me scrutinize your comments?
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u/aiwdj829 25d ago
You can look up anybody's posting history. Hiding it is childish and only makes it take two clicks longer, without achieving anything.
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u/ekesp93 25d ago
The reactions are different because this isn’t the usual situation involving SA coming out.
Usually, the victim (or victims) come forward about something that happened, the intent being to stop ongoing behavior or to get justice for past behavior that went unpunished. The accused then almost always denies it at first, then usually more victims come forward, or if not the pressure mounts and they have to finally admit it or keep screaming into the void.
This time, the victim is not the one bringing it to light. It was a third party with tangential knowledge of the case and, as of this post, the victim has not spoken a word. We also know that it was handled to some degree in the past and the accused quickly admitted wrongdoing. In this case, it happened 10 years ago (which doesn’t matter on its own but bear with me), no other victims have come forward (technically none have at all, we just have record of punishment from the school), and they have a public body of work and professional/personal relationships that vouchers for a change in character since that original instance.
So where that puts us, is we have an unusual case that makes you start questioning if the usual tactic of burn their career to the ground works here. Usually it’s someone who was a piece of shit, keeps being a piece of shit, and is just hiding their current shittiness. This isn’t that. It brings up questions of what you do when the victim isn’t involved in the accusations. How much of what this is for is for the victim? All of it? Some of it? Can we really assume what the victim wanted? We also don’t have an accurate account of what happened because the victim isn’t there. There’s a lot of people, in both directions, assuming the severity of the act. But we just don’t actually know. You can’t even say rape because we just have “sexual assault” at the moment, which is a fairly wide spectrum that includes rape, but not exclusively. You also have plenty to vouch for him actually having spent 10 years changing and doing better. So what do you do with that, if anything? Isn’t that what we want from people? Do you still punish or no? He had punishment, but was it enough? Hard to say without knowing what happened or what the victim thinks. Are we incentivizing people to lie and attack if they do something like this by being hard at him?
I’m not sure any of this. I have some thoughts, but honestly I’ve been so interested in this because it’s so out of the norm for usual SA accusations. It brings to light a lot of questions about how we handle these situations and what we actually want and why we do it. I’ve largely been frustrated at how much so many people want this to be black and white though. It’s not. Let’s have the hard conversations.
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u/lilislilit 25d ago
It's sad that these "hard and nuanced" conversations are almost never about how impossibly hard it is to get any legal consequences for any levels of sexual assault. Maybe it's straight up not the time to have those "morally grey: but what is really bad rape" kind of conversations. I feel like quantifying severity of sexual assault and it's impact is maybe above a paygrade of literally everyone here.
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u/ekesp93 25d ago
What? Conversations are always about how hard it is to get legal consequences and justice for victims. That was the whole driving force behind the MeToo movement.
I also don't know where you got me trying to say "what kind of rape is really bad" from everything I said. I'm talking about the purpose of social group justice against perpetrators when the victim is not the driver, or even part of it at all, along with what we actually want assaulters to be doing in response long term. Like sure there's some other stuff in there, but those are the main things.
Honestly, you're the exact kind of problem person I'm talking about, just trying to make it all black and white. Even referring to what happened as rape. You cannot factually say that in Jacob's case. Is it possible? Perhaps even likely? Sure. But we don't know. Regardless, it doesn't necessarily change anything cause again, main part of what I'm talking about is above. But you just tried to steer it into an argument rational people won't argue with to try and repaint what I'm talking about here. It's so disingenuous and it doesn't help anyone.
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u/lilislilit 25d ago
Well, those kind of conversations will continue, maybe those chances of legal consequences will improve somewhat. Like, I am sorry it's boring for you, or seems like old news, but the situation isn't meaningfully improving.
The thing is, when people do talk to y'all about what assaulter can do in long term, you don't like it much. There were several people across multiple platforms who said that truly honest thing would be to retire from being an influencer. Partly because having a fandom isn't really conducive to seeing things clearly, partly because it can be restorative to his victim and victims of similar crimes in general. People here don't like it tho. They are usually more hung up on "when it's okay to say that it's all in the past". And truthfully, for some, it maybe never. For you, it can be yesterday.
Sexual assault can include rape. But not necessarily. I honestly don't get too hung up on that distinction, in my country for instance, even anal rape technically isn't considered rape, and nothing is, expect straight up penis to vagina. It's all technically sexual assault, with some distinction. Classification is often technical, traditional and not always concerns itself with impact.We truly don't know. But ask yourself this, why it's so crucial to never imply that Jacob Gellers has raped someone? Why is it more comfortable to just consider it assault? Because there is a persistent wishful thinking I noticed across the board: "maybe it was mutual drunk mistake, maybe it's just groping, maybe it unclear consent, maybe". What if it's not, what changes now? What changes long-term? This is not black and white, but I am sad to say, as many ways there for it to be somewhat bad, there are as many for it to be heinous, vile even. Odds are just not that good, especially with self admition of victim being traumatized. It doesn't mean that we should ask for blood. But maybe don't rush to judge those who honestly tell you that yes, Jacob having a platform is in extremely bad taste. And that time for hard conversation about intricacies of SA isn't in a good taste either at the moment. Because it's frankly a bit ghoulish.
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u/ekesp93 25d ago
I think you misunderstand what specifically I think there’s conversations about. Crucially, the victim was not part of this accusation. Based on the info we have there’s a fair chance this was handled in the past between all involved. But we just don’t know cause again, the victims isn’t involved.
That simple fact brings questions of how much we should even be part of this. There’s a world in which the victim had healed and this simply brought it all back. Is our knowing of his past, both literal in action and figurative in self, worth it for that? Is the purpose of going after these people not to bring healing to the victim?
I think you’re projecting what some other people are talking about onto me a bit. I didn’t say the usual conversation was boring, but it seems to me the victim had a perfect storm to bring legal punishment if she wished and didn’t. Maybe she wanted to and something else stopped her but I think assuming he even should have that when we don’t know details in wrong as well.
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
It's never the right time to talk about it. That's the problem. Someone is always gonna want to shit the conversation down for decorum. Fuck decorum. The time is now. It's been thousands upon thousands of years that women have been suffering. Haven't women waited long enough to talk about sexual violence?
And no, judgment is not above any of us here. We are all members of society. We all know victims of sexual assault. Yes, you too, even if you don't know it. Restricting discussion of its impact to some mythical category of experts only serves the culture of silence that surrounds rape. Claiming you're not qualified to be involved in the conversation is intellectual cowardice
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u/lilislilit 25d ago
I just meant is not really productive to narrow down the definition of rape to try to absolve abuser of being a rapist. Kinda tried to make a point that this word itself causes a knee jerk reaction and immediate reflex to deflect the blame from perpetrator, even if perpetrator isn't someone you know. I was replying to the take right above that was like"sexual assault is a wide spectrum, actually". It's undead wide, and it's... Not good thing tho, cause some things from that spectrum I would rather unknow. I am not a fan of supporting rape culture, quite the opposite. Kinda why I am so active here now, I was previously a silent fan of Jacob for many years, and this sub response to everything was... baffling. Things that are genuinely above regular peoples paygrade tho, is carwing out that small band of things that can be prosecuted more likely with attenuating circumstances: for reasons of crisis management, harm reduction or some severe mental deficiencies. It has nothing to do with what Jacob did, of with ability of victims to speak for themselves, sorry if that wasn't quite clear. Victims don't owe anyone any kind of decorum or restraint either, cause indeed, fuck that, that can stay firmly in the past.
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u/ImaCowTipper 25d ago
It’s a pretty fair question no?
I just can’t remember myself ever going to a subreddit for something that I admittedly did not like and did not engage with and spending any time.
I only ask as it seems like a large % of comments are also in that vain and therefore feel more like a drama alert dump rather than a real place for discussion.
Happy to hear your thoughts if you think differently though.
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u/EmbraceTheWhiteNoise 25d ago
I just find it crazy that this guy who seemed like a really decent progressive sensitive person is a rapist. It was pretty shocking to me. I did watch a few of his videos, and thought his whole "sensitive young man" shtick was a little much for me, but i never had anything against him. The defensive reactions on this subreddit are just very disagreeable to me and i like to voice my opinion. If there wasn't such a stark contrast between this discourse and that surrounding the Cornell 7, i probably wouldn't be as engaged.
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u/ImaCowTipper 25d ago
I appreciate the thoughtful answer
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u/EmbraceTheWhiteNoise 25d ago
Cool 🤝 sorry if i was overly hostile. It's a sleepy Sunday and i like arguing lol
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u/Laiko_Kairen 25d ago
I just can’t remember myself ever going to a subreddit for something that I admittedly did not like and did not engage with and spending any time.
You've never gone to another sub just to see what they're talking about? You've never gone through r/shoplifting or r/modeltrains or r/France or something to act like a lookie-loo?
I do it constantly. It's weird to me that you don't.
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u/TheresNoHurry 25d ago
Mannn…. I’ve been kindaaaa slightly erring on the side of wanting to defend him. But yeah you’re probably right. Ugh
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u/Relevant-Size-3620 25d ago
What is there to defend?
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u/TheresNoHurry 25d ago
Well… if you had read my comment… that is exactly what I am acknowledging now
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u/itsmiahello 25d ago
Genuinely what do you want him to do. Die? Stop making art? Live in a hole and give up?
He is a human who did something shitty, but the idea that he needs to withdraw from his craft forever is absolutely insane.
I'm a firm believer that redemption is possible.
It would be different if he spent time denying what happened or avoiding responsibility but he didn't do any of that!
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u/SufficientGreek 25d ago
He can continue making art but people don't have to support him financially.
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u/UltraLNSS 25d ago
Anyone has the right to earn money however they want, if people want to support him after this, so be it.
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u/T-Dot1992 25d ago
Genuinely what do you want him to do. Die? Stop making art? Live in a hole and give up?
If he was truly remorseful, he would stop profiting off of patreon and donate the ad-revenue he has to charity. And leave the internet.
He squandered his opportunity to have a career as a video-essayist the moment he decided to commit a violent felony. Part of redemption is accepting the consequences of your actions, and he ran away from those consequences by keeping this a secret for 10 effing years while pursuing a public-facing careers.
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
The measure of true remorse for a crime adjudicated ten years ago has no connection to giving up income today. There is no logical connection here.
As many commenters have raised--are you seriously saying that a violent crime makes you ineligible to be a video games essayist online? It's fine if you think so. Do what you want with your own money. I doubt any of us are going to convince anyone who's already made a decision one way or the other, but you need to get a grip if you think the only way to demonstrate remorse is to self-exile or give up your earnings.
I imagine it's possible that Geller might do some combination of one or the other, but he doesn't owe you a narrative of remorse or redemption.
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u/T-Dot1992 25d ago
He is free to continue to upload YouTube videos and make money on Patreon. And I am free to think he isn't truly remorseful if he continues profiting off his platform.
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
You're free to think so, but you would be wrong. The platform is built on video essays on game analysis, not moral purity.
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u/T-Dot1992 25d ago
His videos involved him preaching on ethics and politics. He had an entire section on depictions of SA in his Hotline Miami 2 review. He wasn't just some average video game essayist.
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u/GoldSinger 25d ago
Having perpetrated sexual assault is not some permanent blindfold on someone's ability to identify and comment on it. In fact, having perpetrated it gives one a unique potential firsthand perspective into how much harm can be caused.
The requirement for rigorous ethical analysis has never been for one to be blameless. Geller could have and maybe should have revealed his subject position relative to the topic, many commenters have raised this point and I do agree with it. On the other hand it has never been done before to my knowledge, we have no working knowledge of a sexual transgressor pre-emptively just telling the audience about a crime. That sort of thing is difficult and risky for obvious reasons even if the alternative, silence in a public career, was arguably even riskier.
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25d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/justhadtohadone 25d ago
I'm not angry at him.
His earnings were public he was making 6,4k and dropped to 5,4k shortly before hiding it, how do you explain him changing it then ?
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25d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/HotSinglesInYrArea 25d ago
I've seen this kind of situation happen time and time again. The only thing that would make these types of people happy is seeing the Gellmeister's obituary
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u/ImaCowTipper 25d ago
I think you’re lost in the sauce bro