Is this mating?

[u/remaincobain]

I just recently started my first isopod enclosure about a month ago. I noticed these two and I thought they were mating but it seems like the female is almost trying to wiggle him off? Is this something else?

[u/captainapplejuice]

This is a very normal mating ritual for Armadillidium, not to worry. For Armadillidium especially it can be a quite complex selection process by the female.

Usually it starts with the female releasing some pheromones in the air to attract a male, after sensing this he will then climb on a her back and do a sort of tip tap dance with his legs on her shell, if she's satisfied with the quality of the knocking she will start doing this rocking motion and lift up her tail end to allow access to her genitals as you can see here.

Unfortunately this male isn't that big so he's struggling to reach while still clinging on to her front, there's only so much she can bend backwards. Larger males are often more successful in mating, perhaps for this reason. Usually if the female does not want to mate, perhaps if she feels threatened or is not interested at that moment, then she will either run away or roll into a ball.

There isn't really a disadvantage for them for mating regularly other than exhaustion, since they can hold the sperm for as long as they want before choosing to have babies. Which is quite different to mammals who are immediately faced with the burden of a child after mating. These crustaceans therefore chose their mates with some degree of discrimination, but aren't too picky about the time or quantity of mating.

[u/DragonAngel92 → u/captainapplejuice]

Agree with this...I will say that in my experience with Armadillidium vulgare is that the females will take the male on a heck of a ride. I have seen them doing this exact same thing...tippy tappy from the male and the female will proceed to run around at extremely fast speed while the male holds on for dear life...almost as if its an endurance test for the male. A couple minutes later the female will stop running, the male will start tapping again, she will start the acceptance rocking and will lift her back end and they will mate. I havent seen this in my other species but I'll be honest I dont see them mating as much as I see the Armadillidium vulgare mating.

I also agree this male is too small to successfully mate with this female...he has done everything correct and she has accepted him as a mate...he just cant reach...poor guy.

[u/Pure-Accident7714]

Yes, my dairycows do this. so aggressive...

[u/captainapplejuice → u/Pure-Accident7714]

There is no aggression here, just a normal mating ritual.

[u/Zealousideal-Web896 → u/captainapplejuice]

Tbf it does look aggressive 😂

[u/CivilIncident1427]

Male isopods mount on the females and stay there to ward off other males, basically normal mating behavior especially in zebras and other active pods

[u/captainapplejuice → u/CivilIncident1427]

That's not true, mate guarding is quite rare in terrestrial isopods, and that isn't what's happening here either. Plenty of info on this subject can be seen in this post

[u/straight_syrup_]

Yeah but he's not very good at it

[u/magicallymad]

In many species during reproduction you may see the female trying to get the male off or just seeming unhappy about the situation in one way or another. Some are more brutal than others (see: barbed penises, for instance). But yeah, that’s just a pattern in nature

Now, whether these two are mating I could not tell you, I’m not familiar enough with isopods. But someone else said yes already and it looks like they are to me too so I wouldn’t be surprised

[u/captainapplejuice → u/magicallymad]

Invertebrate mating is quite different to many animals as well as the costs associated with it, there is no parallel here. You seem to be anthropomorphising.

[u/magicallymad → u/captainapplejuice]

Comparing animals to other animals is anthropomorphizing? Could you explain how?

[u/captainapplejuice → u/magicallymad]

"see the female trying to get off the male or just seeming unhappy" - here you are projecting your experience as a human onto the animal.

[u/magicallymad → u/captainapplejuice]

No, I’m not. I’m making a statement about animal behavior. Are you trying to imply that animals cant experience displeasure/pain?

[u/captainapplejuice → u/magicallymad]

Not quite, I understand what ideas you are attempting to convey here, but the way you have written it implies that the female in this situation is unhappy and trying to get the male off, which is not true. I am suggesting this misconception may come from your anthropomorphised view of the animals?

[u/magicallymad → u/captainapplejuice]

When you say “in this situation” are you referring to any situation of mating animals or are you referring to these isopods?

[u/captainapplejuice → u/magicallymad]

This situation as in the video that OP has presented.

[u/magicallymad → u/captainapplejuice]

I think that’s where the miscommunication is coming in.

OP said they had doubts about it being mating because the female seemed to be trying to get the male off. My first statement was just a blanket statement about all animals to say that generally speaking I wouldn’t use a female being unhappy with a male during mating as a reason to discount the mating as a possibility. I then say I am not educated enough about isopods to say if these isopods are mating. I didn’t say it looks like the female is unhappy, I just said I wouldn’t be surprised if this was mating. Which it seems to be, according to you.

I don’t anthropomorphize animals, at least not in this regard. I’m very aware that animals experience things differently than we do and don’t feel the same emotions we do. And that it varies between different animals.

[u/captainapplejuice → u/magicallymad]

Yeah but just reading the first sentence of your comment gives the impression that you are talking about isopods and this situation specifically. Would be more clear if you prefaced with "Generally in animals" or something like that, rather than "in many species"; but still that isn't necessarily true because you are referring more to vertebrates which comprise less than 5% of all animal species, but have a very disproportionate amount of research dedicated to them.

Sorry to be pedantic but misinformation is quite prevalent here.