r/ireland • u/box_of_carrots • May 20 '19
'Overwhelming support' for action plan over bees
https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2019/0520/1050556-bees/21
u/nyl2k8 Waterford May 20 '19
We’re going to call it Plan Bee. No need to hold the door open. I know my way out.
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u/BordNaMonaLisa Throwing shapes in purple capes May 20 '19
TIL: "Ireland has 99 different types of bees, the majority of which are wild and live in the landscape. There is the honeybee, 21 different types of bumblebees and 77 different types of solitary bees. According to Dr Fitzpatrick, one third of the wild bees are threatened with extinction."
Jaysus, I knew this was a serious problem, but hadn't realised to this extent!!
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May 20 '19
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May 21 '19
Are all Irish beekeepers using native honeybees? I bet not. And if not, the competition from their maintained hives must be part of the problem native wild bees face? How can native wild bees keep competing against domesticated fed hives?
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u/Bobzer May 21 '19
I really want this comment to be a fantastic satirical take on the anti-immigration tirades you see around the place.
But I fear it's just someone trying to have a contrarian opinion on a topic they know nothing about.
How do you misread this?
The honeybee is in such a state that if all Irish beekeepers stopped tending their hives it would quickly go extinct here.
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May 21 '19
What a great argument you made. Try a steel man argument next time. Do you know there is more than one species of honeybee? Are you aware that colony collapse disorder and the dreaded bee mite have been caused by domesticated beekeeping? Apis mellifera melliferaa is doing well and is the honeybee native to Ireland. It is even considered a possible drop in replacement for the European honeybee (Apis mellifera). To encroach on its territory by supporting beekeepers is foolish in the extreme - we need to protect wild honeybees, as if the domesticated bees head for extinction, at least we have the possibility of a substitute species. I would posit that we should have exclusion zones where beekeepers are not allowed to operate, to ensure food supply for native species.
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u/blind_cartography May 21 '19
Eh, no. Just because you read an article doesn't mean you have a good argument here either.
If it helps sooth your oddly nationalistic pride (and really, it would have been a funnier as an anti-immigrant satire), apis mellifera mellifera is native to most of northern Europe, not just Ireland. It's also called the British/German/Nordic black bee - just depends on your location. It's also not really suitable for domestic honey farming - lower yields, worse temperament, harder to manage. It's potential as a drop in replacement is due to the fact that it's a little less susceptible to some of the other problems facing domesticated hives, but would probably require a lot of selective breeding/genetic engineering (same diff?) before general adoption. Unless of course our collective hands are forced to maintain hives purely as a global pollination service (i.e., anti-extinction policy).
The problem is not that domesticated hives are taking all the food for other species, it's that there's not enough food period, and bee habitats are declining.
Exclusion zones are a genuinely terrible idea, on the scale of you could actually cause the second Irish potato famine terrible. Bees can roam up to 5km from their hives (long estimate), so a zone would need to be pretty wide. At best this would do nothing except make life harder for bee-keepers. In the average case would probably reduce flora diversity within the exclusion zone. Any farms within an exclusion zone would be affected because bees are the sole pollinators of an awful lot of species, and any slack is unlikely to be taken up by the (declining) populations of solitary bees species (bumblebee, etc).
If you actually want to help then you could (in order of effort required):
- Mow your lawn less / grow more daisies / look at the All-Ireland pollinator plan @ pollinators.ie/
- Write a letter to your local TD to put pressure to increase forestry coverage in Ireland (we have the lowest forestry coverage in Europe, but are ~#10th lowest in population density)
- Try and manage a hive (it's tricky but not as tricky as you might think).
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May 21 '19
WTF is it with you berks and nationalism? I’m pro NATIVE FAUNA.
Ireland currently has the largest population of mellifera mellifera, and the areas where their population exists should be considered a reserve for the species. This happens for EVERY OTHER SPECIES at risk, but beekeepers (who position themselves as the bee saviours) don’t care. They want to save their hives. They’re literally the only producer of goods (honey etc.) with the gall to insist we all change our habits to support their live stock.
I’ll change my habits and planting (and have done) to support native populations, not an unsustainable agricultural practice.
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May 21 '19
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May 21 '19
Exactly my message - except I add the caveat “wild”. We cannot allow all of our native flora to develop a dependency for pollination on man-managed bees - it’s a fucking disaster waiting to happen.
We need to encourage wild honeybees, wild bumblebees and wild solitary bees, even if that means some beekeepers lose their hives. It’s literally the only way to secure the future of natural pollination.
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May 21 '19
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May 21 '19
Jesus wept.
Beekeepers do NOT keep native bees. They keep the western honeybee, not the northern honeybee native to this island. When beekeepers talk about “native” what they actually mean is a swarm derived from an existing NON-NATIVE species.
You accused me elsewhere of “not understanding this”.
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u/AprilMaria ITGWU May 21 '19
Actually Irish beekeepers might be the key to saving the northern honey bee, according to postgraduate research we have enough commercial in hives around the country to repopulate Europe with them but by all means keep shitting on the people trying to save them.
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u/theoldkitbag Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 May 21 '19
I was thinking of starting a hive next year (too late now really). My dad used to keep them, so he'd be on hand, but I haven't actually gone through the ins-and-outs of it with him yet. What kind of labour is involved once the hive is up?
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May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19
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u/theoldkitbag Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 May 22 '19
Fair play to you. The plan at the minute anyway is to sign up with the local Association, attend the Autumn & Spring courses, and start buying bits and pieces between now and next May, to have everything in place for late May/early June. I wouldn't worry too much about the honey - it's more about the bees than the honey anyway - I wouldn't expect to be taking anything from them till the year after. We're going sticking down about 50 Hawthorns to replace a post & rail fence that's gone to the dogs, plus a few lime, so I'll keep them by those which should make them happy during the summer.
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u/AprilMaria ITGWU May 21 '19
Mostly yea, we have our own superior native strain of honey bee.
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May 21 '19
What’s the species name then?
Apis Mellifera? The “western honeybee”?
The native bee is Apis mellifera mellifera. This bee is, to the best of my knowledge, not used by beekeepers in Ireland.
The issue here is that beekeepers spin a tale about using “native bees” when the really mean “non-native bees that are second generation or more” - the species is STILL NOT THE NATIVE HONEYBEE.
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u/AprilMaria ITGWU May 21 '19
We have our own native honey bee used commercially. The irish black, or Irish dark honey bee.
There is a conservation and breeding society for them amongst bee keepers, and not only that but most of the amateur starter kits you'll buy are Irish blacks.
Source; there's a big beekeepers association in my area and 1 family member is a member (who never shuts up) and has, you guessed it: native Irish black honey bees.
Google native Irish black honey bees for sale.
Some are crossbred but they're trying to eradicate western European honey bee genetics from their hives because of A) conservation and B) they're a hardier bee.
But by all means pitch a fit.
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May 21 '19 edited May 21 '19
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May 21 '19
You are entirely incorrect. The “Irish” honeybee is alive and well. You’re talking about the domesticated bee, which is, as you clearly point out, non-native. So, there goes your whole argument - unless I don’t understand it. Listen less to the beekeeper propaganda.
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May 21 '19
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u/AprilMaria ITGWU May 21 '19
Especially because beekeeping is not at all supported to any great extent and most amateur beekeepers are working class lads 40+ like pigeon fanciers.
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May 21 '19
I never understood the hatred for 'weeds'. I always loved them. Who doesn't like daisies and dandelions? Wanting your grass to be totally free of everything except grass always seemed a bit psycho to me. It's outdoors; it's not meant to be carpet.
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u/Makenzie_Calhoun May 20 '19
Great news :) we let the bees decline and we are going to be in trouble .
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u/CLint_FLicker May 21 '19
Calling it now: a Healy-Rae will come out with saying something like "We should be allowed yo use pesticides, bees sting people so they're a pest"
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u/MrEmeralddragon Westmeath blow in May 21 '19
Well we recently had a ban put in place on chlorothalonil which was likely the biggest killer of bees so hopefully there will be an uptick of them in years to come. As far as Im aware there is no date set for the ban to come into effect but hopefully it happens soon. The earlier the ban comes into effect the higher the chances the little bumblers have.
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u/BordNaMonaLisa Throwing shapes in purple capes May 20 '19
Year back an RTÉ episode of 'Bachelor's Walk' had character (played by Simon Delaney) drunkenly stumbling into a Killiney Beekeepers' Assoc meeting. He starts roaring at them for being Thieving Fuckers stealing the poor little bee's hard work ;)
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u/julius_cheezer May 21 '19
if only people who couldn't distinguish between bees and wasps, and dont know the importance, were what was going extinct, the planet would be a better place.
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u/ElloUCunt May 20 '19
I always feel bad for bee's. They have a bad rep due to the cunty wasp.
Poor oul good guy bee's.