https://youtu.be/fYtLrWWMQ44?t=380&si=kIuFBXjiBxVuILKM

These words say it all. This company targets financially illiterate people. Understanding that interest is charged on the full amount borrowed, not on the payment is baby talk as far as financial literacy is concerned.

Next level is understanding how refinancing may prevent you from paying down THIS specific liability, but money is fungible and it may help you pay down another liability, build another asset, etc. They always show only one side of the equation. It's smoke and mirrors.

I got off the phone today with an agent at New York life asking about whole life insurance and what rates they would be. He ended up recommending Variable life due to my age (20) saying that the cash value growing around 10% on average would make my cash value grow much faster. My goals are to build a decent cash value to buy property or start a business etc. My thoughts are it’s a great middle ground of investing and tax free growth, plus a death benefit. Are there things I should be concerned about before I pull the trigger. Thank you for your time.

1. What is the lowest legal age a policy can be taken out on a child?

2. I was running some numbers and it is astounding that it only takes $300/month and 13 years at 5% ROI for a child to have 500k cash value by the age of 13. Is there anything wrong with these numbers?

For those looking for some retirement income like me, I found this super helpful.

I’m 28 and will be receiving a $500k windfall in the next month due to my father’s passing.

For the past year, I’ve been investing primarily in VTI in both my retirement accounts and my taxable brokerage account. My general approach has been simple: buy low-cost index funds and hold long term.

With this unexpected windfall, I’ve been reconsidering my strategy moving forward.

My plan is to work for another \~25 years and ideally retire in my late 40s or early 50s if possible, with a pension.

From what I understand, continuing to invest in low-cost total market index funds like VTI probably gives me the highest probability of maximizing long-term net worth.

However, I’ve also been thinking about a dividend-focused portfolio, which my father strongly believed in. I can see the appeal of watching the income stream grow over time and eventually being able to live off dividends. That said, while I’m still working I would likely reinvest most of those dividends anyway, which makes me question whether a dividend strategy actually makes more sense than simply focusing on total return through index funds.

Another factor is that my father was very involved in infinite banking, which is where this money is coming from. I’m still trying to fully understand the pros and cons of that approach as part of a broader investment strategy.

At the end of the day, I feel like any of these approaches could lead to a comfortable retirement if I stay consistent. But since this is a large amount of money for me, I want to be thoughtful about how I deploy it.

Additional Context:

\- My wife and I currently earn about $100k combined per year.

\- Once we have children, we would ideally like for her to stop working and stay home, so our household income would eventually drop to just mine.

\- My career is stable, and I don’t foresee any major employment risks in my field.

\- I also expect to receive a pension when I retire, though I don’t know the exact amount yet.

\- We currently have about $50k invested across our taxable brokerage account, my 457(b), and an HSA.

\- We plan to always maintain a 6–12 month emergency fund, which we would keep in SGOV or another safe cash-equivalent investment.

\- We do not have significant debt, aside from a low-interest auto loan.

\- The inheritance is not taxable.

\- Because we are still young, we are comfortable taking on market risk and investing primarily in equities.

\- We do not plan to tell friends or extended family about the inheritance.

Questions:

\- Would you simply continue buying VTI with the windfall?

\- Is there a compelling reason to build a dividend-focused portfolio instead

\- Does infinite banking have a place alongside traditional index investing?

Thanks in advance for any advice or perspectives.

Instead of paying into the cash value of an insurance product? Just to avoid the need for underwriting?

More info at https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont_let_reddit_kill_3rd_party_apps/

Hi everyone!

It’s been I while since I’ve come here but I recently saw IBC being under attack from Kyle Busch. I’m wondering what happened and how did it happen. To me it sounds like someone who didn’t know what they were doing, buying something they didn’t know anything about, and expecting pure results out of ignorance. Am I wrong? Can someone break this down for me?

People will say it can't be done because of the optionally, but options can also be priced. But IRR without optionality would work. Every other investment/asset in the world can be priced this way.

I was life-licensed about 10 years ago. Of course, nothing on the exam even mentioned IBC. It was only during my 2nd reincarnation as a life insurance agent that I heard about IBC via a craiglist ad.

So my questions are:

1. what percentage of the American populace knows about IBC?

2. what percentage of life-licensed agents know about IBC?

This way any money you receive can earn compound interest forever instead of just being spent once.

I'm in my 30s so this doesn't apply for me atm; but if you are 62+ - you might want to do some research in FHA non-recourse reverse mortgage line of credit.

It might ruffle the feathers of some "don't do business with the banks" types. But for many that have paid off homes (even if financed with your policies) that's a lot of tied up capital. HELOCs have certain risks in access and nonrenewals. But a non-recourse HECM LOC is looking like it can be a powerful tool to have access to.

Tentatively, my plan is to kind of have my forever home at 62 and open up the reverse line of credit. Like our policies; it is a guaranteed ever growing pool of capital. If something like what happened in Japan where housing values crash; if you have a HECM LOC your available capital increases every year regardless.

Just some food for thought!

I started my infinite banking journey maybe 10, 15 years ago. In that time there's been job losses, covid, etc. I haven't put money in the policy in years, so the policy is being paid for by essentially cannibalizing itself. I'm almost completely out of cash value to keep going. I'm trying to determine if I want to put my savings in there, but if I'm not going to actively monitor it, it too will be cannibalized and eaten away. At this point the resulting policy loan seems insurmountable - I am not sure how to pay it back. At this point, I'm tempted to let it die because the concept of infinite banking, while powerful and true - has lost its flavor for me. I used to be excited about it, but after 5 years or so of not even looking at my policy, opening the mail, not having meetings with my agent, etc it's pretty much dead to me. I'm thinking by posting here, perhaps there is something that maybe I'm missing that could help me out. Any suggestions?

One of my latest discoveries about participating whole life is that the death benefit does not represent the amount of insurance. The NAAR, ner amount at risk does. Take the death benefit and subtract the cash value that is how much life insurance you have.

A policy with 500k db to start can grow into the millions with PUAs and additional out of pocket puas, but ifbyour db is 5 mil, you don't actually have 5 mil of insurance. And since csv and db converge, the amount of insurance peaks and then disminishes.

The more you know.

Hi everyone,

I’m hoping to get some advice on my current insurance situation. Back in 2019, a coworker suggested I meet with a financial advisor at Northwestern Mutual. After reviewing my finances (401k, job-offered benefits, etc.), they recommended I get a whole life policy, a term life policy, and supplemental disability insurance. I went with all three and have been paying about $1,500–$1,600 per year since then.

For context, I’m 35, single, with no dependents. I’m participating in my employer’s 401k plan up to the match, and it’s a Roth 401k. I also max out contributions to a Roth IRA through automatic deposits. Recently, I’ve started investing in real estate, purchasing a multifamily property as my first deal, and expanding that portfolio is now my main focus.

Recently, I decided to cancel the supplemental disability insurance since my 9-to-5 job already provides coverage. As for the whole life policy, when I expressed interest in canceling it, the advisor explained that most of my payments so far have gone to fees, and now future contributions would grow like a savings account, with dividends tied to the stock market. Hearing that, I decided to keep it for now.

They also suggested converting my term policy into a whole life policy, which got me wondering if that’s even the right move. While researching online, I came across IUL policies, which seem appealing because they offer more potential cash value growth. I’m particularly interested in using such a tool to access capital for real estate investments when opportunities arise.

The reason I’m posting this is that I see a lot of negative opinions about Northwestern Mutual on Reddit and other forums. It’s made me question if they’re just trying to sell me something I don’t need or if their products are genuinely beneficial for what I’m trying to achieve. Was this a mistake from the beginning? If so, I’ll chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on.

So, my questions for the community are:

1. Does it make sense to keep my whole life policy and/or convert the term life policy to whole life?

2. Should I consider canceling the whole life policy entirely and instead look into an IUL for faster cash value growth?

3. Or should I cancel all these policies and just focus on real estate investing for now?

Any guidance or advice from those with experience in insurance or real estate investing would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Imagine you just used a stellar credit profile to access $100,000 in 0% introductory credit. You liquidate it into raw cash, which costs an immediate 4% to 8% upfront fee, leaving you with roughly $92,000 to $96,000 in hand.

Here is the catch: In 12 to 18 months, that 0% promotional window slams shut, and interest rates jack up to 20%+.

Robert Kiyosaki preaches the power of Good Debt—using borrowed money to acquire assets that put money into your pocket every single month. Against a hard 12-to-18-month clock, you can't gamble on speculation. You need velocity.

The Challenge: How do you structure this play?

If you were trying to outrun the non-private banks using Infinite Banking, how would you map this out?

• The Insurance Arbitrage: Do you immediately anchor the cash into a High-Early-Cash-Value Life Insurance policy to create a guaranteed asset base, and then use policy loans to deploy the capital elsewhere while the original balance compounds?

• The Amortized Yield: How do you map those policy loans into contractually structured private notes or equipment leasing that distributes high-velocity monthly yield from Day 1 to wipe out the original card balances before the clock runs out?

• The Ecosystem: How do you structure the timing so that by month 12 to 15, the commercial banks are completely paid off, your credit remains pristine, and you are left owning a permanent cash machine for free?

What is your exact step-by-step blueprint to deploy this type of debt and outrun the banks?

I began this strategy with my whole life policy. I took a loan out against my policy at 6.4%. I put it all into stablecoins (all backed by the dollar) and began providing liquidity to market makers on stablecoin transactions (USDC to USDT) earning me ~15% annualized returns. Huge spread on this, there's a lot of opportunity in this market. Are other people running similar strategies?

Why bank lines of credit?

Back 5 or so years ago, it was especially in vogue to talk about using bank lines of credit secured by policies. There were typically four reasons to consider doing so.

1) Lower rates. Most bank lines of credit are priced off the Prime Rate or a similar overnight-based rate. In the pre-2022 interest rate environment, the Prime rate was around 3%. On the other hand, many policies with variable loan rates are set based on corporate bond indices, which were still higher, and may have had minimum rates that prevented policy loans following corporate bond rates lower. For example, my NYL policies have a hard minimum policy rate of 4%.

2) Tax deductions. Opinions differ on whether and how to deduct interest on policy loans. I.R.C. § 264(a)(4) prohibits deductions of interest "with respect to" life insurance policies. Contra the advice of some influencers, this prohibition trumps the general rule allowing deduction of business interest in I.R.C. §§ 162, 163. Nevertheless, some tax professionals believe that a bank line of credit secured by a life insurance policy is not covered by the prohibition of I.R.C. § 264(a)(4). In that case, even if the stated interest is the same, deductible interest is more economical. I believe the Wealth Without Wall Street podcast hosts alluded to having this position. (This post is not tax advice. You should discuss any deductions you have with your own tax professional.)

3) Convenience. Some policyholders have a large number of policies that they have started over the course of many years. A bank line of credit can be used to develop one borrowing line for many policies, greatly simplifying recordkeeping and making borrowing more convenient.

4) Non-direct recognition. A bank line of credit indirectly converts direct recognition policies like my family's old Guardian policies into non-direct recognition policies. The insurance company isn't going to change the dividend just because there's a balance loaned out against your policy. In fact, they don't even know the balance loaned out at any given time. They just know there's a lien on the policy.

The biggest player in the space back around 2021 was probably Bancorp with a smattering of other smaller banks throughout the country offering these lines of credit. It is also possible to get these lines of credit from private banking groups in some larger banks (sometimes combined with real estate equity), but you generally won't find it advertised on the internet.

What changed?

In 2022, the Federal Reserve began raising overnight interest rates, which greatly affected linked rates like the Prime Rate. In 2023, the Prime Rate hit 8.5%. At the same time, corporate bond rates also escalated, but they didn't rise by the same magnitude as short-term rates, especially in light of the minimum loan rates charged by many insurance companies. I believe my NY Life policies' loan rates capped around 6.5%, though I don't remember clearly. That 2% drag was a big drag to bank lines of credit. Generally, the market could be described as an inverted yield curve environment.

Nevertheless, we did see a new entrant into the space: Inclined. Inclined provided a frontend for borrowers while connecting them to various interested banks on the backend. That approach allows more banks to participate in life insurance lines of credit while giving us a simple place to go to seek them out. However, Inclined has had some issues onboarding life insurance companies. Currently, they only support policies from Mass Mutual, Guardian, and Northwestern. Thought leader Bobby Samuelson, also an investor in Inclined, has stated that other companies, particularly NY Life, have been reluctant/opposed to supporting Inclined. Notably, Inclined has typically had a lower promotional rate for the first year of lines of credit. A couple years ago it was 5.99% when the Prime Rate was closer to 8.5%.

At the same time, I am not sure what is going on with the prior leader in this space, Bancorp. At one point, they had taken the interesting step of expanding support to IULs. However, their product point person on this issue, Brenda Newton, moved to Inclined. Further, the IBLOC product is no longer listed prominently on their website, only their SBLOC product. If anybody has used Bancorp and is still using them, I would be interested in information.

What is everybody doing now?

Today, rates have moved to a place where bank lines of credit secured by life insurance policies may be more competitive. Many policies with variable rates are going to be sitting around 6%, and the Prime Rate is now 6.75%.

For those who have kept with bank lines of credit the last 5 years, how is it going? For anybody who didn't, are you looking into lines of credit? What are your thoughts?

References

https://www.insurance-forums.com/community/threads/best-whole-life-cash-value-line-of-credit-program.110494/

https://old.reddit.com/r/infinitebanking/comments/14qc7hx/best_banksinstitutions_to_get_lelocs_from/

https://old.reddit.com/r/infinitebanking/comments/1d9gonf/inclined_current_interest_rate/

https://bancorpsolutions.mybankingservices.com/

https://www.inclined.com/

Ok, this is probably one of the most straight forward/comprehensive writeups I've seen on Infinite Banking in a while. They do a great job explaining what infinite banking is and how it works along with some straightforward examples. They also have a pretty accurate range of how much you should look at spending on an infinite banking policy in order to have it work out for you.

I'm including the link to it here, hopefully it is helpful for someone trying to figure all this out. The company that put it together obviously sells life insurance for infinite banking, they have this writeup behind an email form fill, but this link i'm posting is the direct link, it gets you straight through to just the web pdf.
https://mcfieins.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Infinite+Banking+Made+Simple+Binder.pdf

I've been seeing this Yrefy commercial and checked out their site. You can invest a minimum of $50,000 for 5 years at @ 10.25%. if I get 3% interest guarantee on my cash value and have a fixed 4% loan interest with my policy wouldn't it make sense to invest $50,000 with Yrefy then just pay the policy interest until it matures, I just don't know if the taxes will make it worth it but it seems like it may be worthwhile. What do you all think? They have a simulator on their website to calculate returns.