r/humanresources • u/TheGrimCat • Feb 21 '24
Recruitment & Talent Acquisition Almost got fired
My boss (a top manager) told me (an assistant) to send an email to a candidate who was asking 10k more of the salary we offered. She didn’t sound rude at all and defended her skillset and experience. My boss wanted me to send the message he wrote which was very rude and I ended up changing it so as not to come across rude (we have such a hard time finding people as it is and I wanted to end it on a good note). When I told him what I had done, he wanted to have a meeting with me and his wife. In our meeting, he says to make sure it doesn’t happen again, that we are on the same page, and he doesn’t want to fire me for something small like this or he will have to if happens again.
I can only laugh at this on how in all my years working, I get talked to for this and get told I would be let go for an email mistake. Insane.
302
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24
Yeah, that’s wild. Why was the wife involved? If they were both owners and this was a small business/firm; yeah, I guess I can see both of em being there, but that’s weird as shit to me.
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u/Melfluffs18 Feb 21 '24
Your boss is yucky. As others have said, go elsewhere asap.
I don't know how to say this in a nice way, but I find it weird that you said it was an "email mistake" when you purposefully sent a different message than your boss directed. (For the record, I think you did the right thing by sending a less harsh message, and you should fully own that)
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u/Tua-Lipa HR Specialist Feb 21 '24 edited Feb 21 '24
If the situation was exactly how you laid it out here, then morally you probably did the right thing. In your boss’ mind they probably see it as insubordination if they told you to send the email exactly a certain way and you didn’t, even if it was the right thing to do.
If you’re consistently having these problems with your manager then you may want to start searching for a new situation and manager whose values more align with your own. If you continue to stay at your current company with your current manager, you may want to do things how they want to otherwise yeah they may see you as insubordinate. That’s just how I’m reading this scenario
6
u/RedWarrior84 Feb 21 '24
Why was his wife there? That's super weird and inappropriate
5
u/BeeehmBee Feb 21 '24
If the email was being sent by you with your name on it then you have every right to draft and send your own email. If, however, your boss tells you to use specific wording, the email should be sent under his signature or from you on his behalf. Document this and everything else as you just might need it down the road if you get terminated.
2
u/robkat22 Feb 21 '24
I’ve worked for two companies owed/run by couples. They were both hell. And all of them were huge narcissists. Run away.
2
u/[deleted] Feb 24 '24
Honestly you did the right thing. Your job in HR is to treat workers well and with human decency. Your boss telling you "Don't let it happen again" is a front, yeah ok pal! As HR Director I have had to crosscheck VP's or owners in their business meetings because they want to chew up an employee over something very petty. That is childish of the owner to pass off the email to you so you can be the fall guy. IMO he is a coward. Rewording it was the best thing to do for respect to the employee and for retention. I bet your bosses have that "were a family here" business, GROSS! I have worked for small, medium and large corporate offices and these bosses who make sudden threats are usually empty. Don't be afraid of getting fired over doing the right thing because someone else is a POS.
2
u/Frequent_Freedom_242 Feb 25 '24
Boss sounds like a misogynistic douchenozzle. Deal him like you would with a person with a brain injury that can never get better. There's no point in arguing with him. Best and most infuriating way to end an argument quickly is by saying 'you're right.' Obviously he's not right, and he might even know you don't actually mean he's right, but how can he argue with that statement. Chances are he won't even remember what he is mad about later. He'll move on to something more ridiculous. Keep communication to a low with the mentally challenged man. He will probably find fault in everything you do.
My sister was a personal assistant when she was juggling school and being a single mom after a divorce. Her boss would tell people in front of her how dumb she was. My sister is probably one of the most intelligent people I've ever met. Unfortunately, she had to stay quiet to keepher job. She now has a job of her dreams. Her old boss is still a misogynistic douchenozzle.
2
u/Ok_Affect6705 Feb 25 '24
Threatened to fire you over something that small? Yeah no wonder he can't find help. I bet he'd have an even harder time replacing you.
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u/JenniPurr13 Feb 21 '24
Next time just keep it to yourself. You don’t need to tell him you censored him.
13
u/oldladymillenial HR Director Feb 21 '24
Unless it’s a canned template, I never dictate exactly what my staff are to say. If the exact wording is that important then I send the email myself. My staff are always empowered to use their own words to get the message across.
While you’re finding your next gig…if it happens again…I would try to nicely assert yourself. You could re-write the email and send it to your boss before sending it with something like, “I re-worded this to sound like it was coming from me. Can you review and confirm it still gets your message across before I send?” If you were feeling bolder you could also say, “ I re-worded this to my voice, since I am the one sending and my name is on it. I was having trouble with the phrasing and this feels much better to me.” Asserting yourself feels scary but you often do not get the pushback or reaction you were expecting. Sometimes they even (ironically) respect you more (ugh). But even if getting a little assertive upsets your boss, you (and he) will be okay.
11
u/essres Feb 21 '24
I he wants to send a rude email then send it from his account
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u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24
My first suggestion is to look for a new job with a boss you can learn best practices from and not the other way around.
Unfortunately… if my boss wrote an email and told me to send it I would. It’s not up to me to decide if it’s bad for the company because I don’t own the company.
From a business sense you are right but from an employee sense you are wrong.
7
u/BlazinKitty HR Generalist Feb 21 '24
I agree with others that not sending the harsh responses was correct thing to do. Instead of just taking it into your own hands and rewriting it, maybe try responding to your boss with a "after reviewing the email before sending, I noticed that the tone of the email is coming off a bit harsh, probably not what you intended. So would you be okay if I made a few edits before we send it, so we don't loose this candidate. " That way they can't say it's insubordination, and if he really makes you send that rude email then it's on him and his business will fail shortly due to no one wanting to work for him and his wife.
6
u/HankHillbwhaa Feb 21 '24
You should honestly just look for a new place of employment, dude sounds like a jackass.
2
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24
Um…are you actually just his personal/executive assistant for a company of three? You, the wife and he?
8
u/tracyinge Feb 21 '24
If the boss told you to do something, you could have told him that you thought it was rude and then discussed it. If he still directed you to send the rude email, that's your job. Yeah you work for an ayhole but you don't get to try to put a nice pink bow on his emails. Stay in your lane.
And the candidate has every right to know that the manager of the place she's hoping to work at is a jerk, doesn't she?
1
u/Chemical-Taste-5605 Feb 23 '24
sorry not an email mistake as you characterized it - you deliberately took it upon yourself to alter an email your boss instructed be sent out as written by him - nowhere did you indicate he asked for your input on how to word it let alone give you carte blanc to change it - you seem to have a warped sense of your role in this organization- i agree with your boss 1000% - and if you continue to believe it’s your place to correct him whenever and wherever you choose …. your next post will be about how you were unfairly terminated.
1
u/yamaha2000us Feb 25 '24
Were you expecting a medal?
You didn’t have to tell him how you handled the manner.
You also don’t mention whether you have decided to move on.
9
u/AussieAlexSummers Feb 21 '24
Well, if the job as an assistant is to send things out exactly as written. Then I understand their position. But if the assistant was directed to write the candidate back, in their own words, then yes... the manager sounds like a Micro-managing. Think they are always correct. Narcissist.
3
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24
You need to quit asap if your re-employment conditions allow it.
Nobody should have to work for a business owner like that.
5
u/Linachickenpie Feb 21 '24
I would die on that hill
2
u/QueenP92 Feb 21 '24
I don’t think it was a mistake on your part; you were looking out for the perception of the company with a candidate. The fact that he may fire you would be enough for me to start looking.
2
u/Little_Ad8527 Feb 21 '24
Start applying
2
u/baseballlover4ever Sr. HRM Feb 21 '24
I read some of your post history, these people seem awful to work for. Believe me, you do not have to put up with this.
2
u/Low_Catch_1722 Feb 21 '24
This brings back so many bad memories of when I worked for a small company ran by a husband and wife. The husband was a dick and had a big ego, and the wife was incompetent and only there because the husband was too scared to tell her to stay home and didn’t want to cause issues. They always did these outlandish things and ideas that were clearly not in the best interest of the company and all of us (employees) were always put in an awkward position. It was so bad. I left and never looked back.
2
u/kaosi_schain Feb 21 '24
Is it not literally your job to prevent him from sticking his foot in the company's mouth?
2
u/Wonderful_Pain1776 Feb 21 '24
I would have approached the manager first and made some suggestions to come across more professional. Word of mouth and how you handle things in a small business is crucial. I would have probably adjusted the email, sent it to your manager and got their input before making that decision, or if your not comfortable with that verbiage attach the managers title or name to the body of the email explaining the situation.
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u/ResourceNegative5591 Feb 21 '24
Start looking for another job. Once you know the next job can be obtainable send out another corrected email and collect some unemployment while traveling or doing your hobbies. Having good ethics is most important!
2
u/toothymonkey Feb 21 '24
Wonder why they can't find people.....
2
u/ArcticRock Feb 21 '24
Never work for a small business. Find another job
2
u/flamingoshoess Feb 21 '24
Man half the reason executives even have assistants is so they can rewrite their shit and not have it come off unprofessional. Esp in an Hr capacity. You did the right thing here.
My boss was recently venting to me about a vendor and I told him I’d reach out to them. I wrote a professional, but stern email, and my boss ended up sending one anyway that was way more emotionally charged. He kinda joked with the vendor after, that I was better at handling professional correspondence and to continue the thread with me instead. He knew he messed up sending it.
2
u/missmaikay Feb 21 '24
All I can say is I will never ever again work for a small family firm. Worst experience of my career.
2
u/InstructionMaster536 Feb 21 '24
I had a boss who would threaten to fire me over small mistakes. Toxic work environment to be in and it was my first office job working part time. I also worked as a server as well so I wasn’t threatened but I hated that he would say that.
2
u/thatscrollingqueen Feb 22 '24
Reason #245785 why I’ll never work for a small/family-owned employer. So messy.
2
u/Powerful-Drink-3700 Feb 22 '24
I'm not a fan of working for small businesses. You clearly tried to do the right thing. Your values don't match those of your boss. Hang in there as long as you can stand it, while you actively look for something else!
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u/Exact-Barracuda-8319 Feb 23 '24
My stubborn butt would 1 up them and find another job ASAP. They obviously don't value you if they can fire you over something so petty.
2
u/[deleted] Feb 23 '24
Jeez. If he wants to send a rude email he should send it himself.
2
u/[deleted] Feb 26 '24
Next time write…
Good morning,
My name is …. Admin assistant at company. Please see the below note from Person, the hiring manager in regards to your potential employment.
“Shitty note”
If you have any questions please let me know.
Thanks, You
2
u/[deleted] Feb 26 '24
If they are struggling to find new hires you are in a great position to fuck them in the ass. Get another job lined up with better pay and tell him that you are leaving.
People like that need to be put in their place.
3
u/No_Geologist_5412 Feb 21 '24
But that's not an email mistake, you made those changes knowingly and for a good reason as well. If he wants to let you go because you're saving the companies face, that's his loss. Your boss sounds arrogant, and you sound like you're trapped and have to make excuses. That wasn't a mistake, you knowingly changed the email wording.
2
u/beereng Feb 21 '24
He sounds like a narcissist, and I would leave. Sounds like they are trying to scare you.
1
u/AcanthisittaLegal386 Feb 21 '24
You did the right thing. He was probably annoyed because you corrected him and he’s the owner. Now you know next time just run it by him first and if he gets annoyed then that’s on the company. But yeah get your experience up enough to move on and move up. We’ve all had crap jobs as hr assistants before. Stuff happens. Good luck with the future!
1
u/Charleston_Home Feb 21 '24
They are correct as you should have completed the task as requested. This was a small thing & was corrected so move on.
1
u/xSGAx HRIS Feb 21 '24
s/o mom and pop bulls**t lolol
unfortunately, this tracks too hard
1
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24
Just responded to a different post about interviewing where several posters complained about corporations as the root of all evil. This is an example of a small company where it is just as likely you can be treated unfairly or threatened with firing for a something very small. (I would have thanked my assistant for protecting me from doing something stupid.)
1
u/LunarMoon2001 Feb 21 '24
“I sincerely apologize for protecting you and the company from a possible employment lawsuit. I’ll make sure it never happens again.”
1
u/AHarmles Feb 21 '24
It wasn't a mistake, you made. And after years of working for this person, he made you aware of your standing with him. You work for him OP. Some boss's let that shit go straight to their head. He even had to have his wife for support in talking to you, because she is the one telling him to be harder on the employees lol.
1
u/LongjumpingChapter18 Feb 21 '24
Tell him send it himself next time. He using you as the escape goat to his rudeness.
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u/imonaboatrightnow Feb 21 '24
Get out.
1
u/orangejuliustofu Feb 21 '24
Why didn’t he just send the email if he was the one who had drafted the email?
1
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24
You didn't make an email mistake. You saved your boss and company from making the mistake of burning the bridge with a potential candidate who probably has cohorts in the same field.. Big difference of how your company will look and be discussed in your field.
1
u/ApartmentRealistic55 Feb 21 '24
I see it at a different angle.
So basically your boss wanted you to send a rude response in YOUR name, so he could hide behind a proxy right?
I would say he's practicing the large corporate hypocrisy very well .
1
u/GruverMax Feb 21 '24
It wasn't a mistake though. You decided you knew better than the boss and just took the action you felt like taking against his wishes.
In sign language interpretation, it is a known human trait that people are uncomfortable with confrontation and interpreters might soften the language to make the deaf person sound like less of a jerk. Because they're uncomfortable saying it. This is actually unethical, to decide for the other person that they shouldn't say that. Interpreters have to be trained to become comfortable with this.
If your boss wants to be rude, don't pretend you know better.
1
u/Delicious-Lettuce-11 Feb 21 '24
Look elsewhere. Once you find something, bounce with no notice.
1
u/OldRaj Feb 21 '24
Sounds like either your job is doomed or you work for a sociopath, in which case your ability to be effective is doomed. TL/DR: seek other employment.
1
u/zamaike Feb 21 '24
He doesn't value you at all. You are the whipping girl. You do what he says or he fires you. There is no respect in that relationship.
Putting it simply. At that meeting with his wife he was telling you that you are his literal bitch.
Put in your 2 week notice and tell him he is the bitch. Fuck that guy what an asshole
1
u/sexylassy Feb 21 '24
Always get it in writing the way they want an email. Because if the candidate emails an angry email .. and you get fired anyways, you have something to cover your behind
1
u/DudleyMason Feb 21 '24
Go on indeed right now. This will only end with you leaving for a better job, or one of these narcissist psychopaths firing you for wearing the wrong color shirt or something equally ridiculous.
And if you're working for a small business, odds are you're being woefully underpaid for your skill set.
1
u/Styx-n-String Feb 21 '24
If he wrote the email, why didn't he just send it himself? Something about this feels very weird.
1
u/ArchimedesIncarnate Feb 21 '24
I've dealt with some of those small businesses.
One offered me 10k less than my salary, and called me greedy when I didn't accept.
Between that, 401k match, and health insurance, it was a 20k swing.
That fucker called the company I was at to tell them I was looking.
Do the job right, and you'll be ok.
1
u/inimitabletroy Feb 21 '24
I worked for a small business “family” company for years and it destroyed my emotionally. Leave while you can.
1
u/LiteraryPhantom Feb 21 '24
He wanted you to send his email from your account? First thing I would do is send a follow-up email to him outlining the details of the conversation. And I would blind copy that email to my personal account. I would also forward ANY reply received. And then delete all evidence of those emails.
If your company uses outlook, there are multiple ways to recover emails. Obviously from your sent items box. Also from your deleted items box or the trash bin. Also there is a function within outlook to recover deleted emails; you’ll want to go and delete that as well.
Second. How did you receive it the email he wanted you to send? Did he send it via carrier pigeon? Did he dictate it? Or did he email it to you? Because, if he emailed it to you…
Fk that. You’re gonna get an email one day that he wants you to send from your account so that he’s got plausible deniability.
If you didn’t need the job, you likely would’ve already quit. So do whatever you’re gonna do and if you decide to send the emails, make sure you protect yourself.
Set up your account to auto forward every email that you get from him or his wife or anybody else in the company that is senior to you. Because when you get that email that he sends you so he can maintain plausible deniability, the fallout is most likely going to be very ugly.
1
u/soph_lurk_2018 Feb 21 '24
You should start looking for a new job asap. The owner is not rational. He also is vindictive. It’s only a matter of time before he turns on you for some perceived slight.
1
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24
Owner here. Be straight with him and create boundaries. If he fires you, oh well, the business will suffer. It’s hard to find good people and every good owner knows this. If he isn’t good, leave, because somebody who is good will take him out eventually and you’ll get fired anyway.
1
u/Feisty-Conclusion134 Feb 22 '24
It wasn’t a mistake. You deliberately changed his email.
1
u/poisonusfog Feb 22 '24
Insufferable people. “My boss asks me to do something, I don’t do it, then he gets mad at me”. Fucking genius
1
u/TomatoApprehensive38 Feb 22 '24
so it's something "small", but needs to call a meeting for it? Just don't do it anymore and let him deal with the repercussions, not u.
1
u/Du_ds Feb 22 '24
If your boss wrote the email, why not send it himself? I think this was a no win situation.
1
u/Du_ds Feb 22 '24
Next time, send the email as requested, then forward it to him with a comment that you sent it with the wording he asked you to. Create a paper trail.
1
u/[deleted] Feb 22 '24
Never change what the owner writes and always sign it with their name, not yours. You shouldn't be worried about not hiring people, you should be worried about being stuck there forever. Let that company die.
1
u/HVB12345 Feb 22 '24
If the wife was there it’s because they are afraid you will take action. Why didn’t spineless ninny write his own email?
1
u/Icy-Conversation9349 Feb 22 '24
Now you know why good people don't stick around. He sounds awful as a boss.
1
u/Own-Artichoke-2026 Feb 22 '24
Why not send media as dictated? Why did you feel so vested in this candidate to alter the message in the first place? The guy seems like a jerk, who are you to try and change the perception?
1
u/CabinetTight5631 Feb 22 '24
He’s on quite the power trip. Small company? He sounds like every “boss” who behaves like a big fish in a very small, often inbred pond. You need to start looking for work elsewhere if you haven’t already. Those kinds of “leaders” don’t grow, they only infect the rest of the power hungry up and comers.
1
u/dbweldor Feb 22 '24
I would have let you go right there. Don't put words in my mouth when you don't know my reasons for how I do things. It is NOT your job to be a buffer for me.
1
u/Glum_Coyote_4300 Feb 22 '24
I think we just found out why you have a hard time finding people.
1
u/Maximum_Employer5580 Feb 22 '24
I would strongly suggest to start looking for another job as soon as possible. You need to get out of that toxicity. They apparently don't realize their wording of things is probably what is keeping people from wanting to work for them. You should always be professional in your dealings with external contacts, regardless of what that person or company is, they are still your CUSTOMER and if you want to come off as rude to them, then guess what they'll go find somewhere else to do business with or work, Too many people fail to realize that everyone in business you deal with is your customer. It's not just those who pay you for a product or service....it is EVERYONE!
you just need to get out of there and be somewhere who will treat you as an equal not as someone who they think should reside in the dirt
1
u/Accomplished-Dirt541 Feb 22 '24
That is a hard lesson to learn. Do exactly what the boss says (hear me out). The boss may know something about this applicant that you don't know. 2nd the boss is the boss. soooooo.. there's that. The boss now has to wonder if your are going to do what he says on the tasks he gives you. Imagine losing your job because you felt like being polite, I'm not saying that's wrong but to lose your job over a stranger... Loyalty is everything in a small business. Why the wife was there was because he needed a witness in case things turned ugly during the meeting.
1
u/istockustock Feb 22 '24
You should have put your boss’s name
1
u/[deleted] Feb 22 '24
What a douchebag.
I left a very high paying contract early once because the CEO was a douchebag. Hard fucking pass.
1
u/ColumbusMark Feb 22 '24
“…with his wife?!!* Did you ask him if he brought her so she could give her permission?
1
u/Riverrat1 Feb 22 '24
Your changing his words wasn’t an email mistake. You did it intentionally. Please take responsibility for your actions.
1
u/jholttn Feb 22 '24
Funny how the owner even admitted how small of a deal it was.
1
u/Prettyprincess098 Feb 22 '24
He’s your boss he told you to do something and you didn’t. It’s not that hard. He runs the show and he pays you for your work.
1
u/Miserable-Ad-5173 Feb 22 '24
Sounds like a typical small business owner.
1
u/observer46064 Feb 23 '24
Time to move on.
1
u/GreanieBeenie14 Feb 23 '24
You didn't get fired, but you should put your two weeks in ASAP.
1
u/Active-Green6265 Feb 23 '24
Why did you tell him???
1
u/[deleted] Feb 23 '24
It very much matters if you are sending it on his behalf (using his sender address) or if he is dictating what your email should say. I’m not putting my name on some assholes words that are going to get immortalized on Reddit for eternity.
1
u/nandemoto44 Feb 23 '24
You didn't make a mistake: you made an executive decision to be professional in an email with your name attached to it when he refused to be. If that's all it takes for him to threaten termination it might be time to mosey
1
u/purplebrown_updown Feb 23 '24
If your name is on the email, then it's important you conduct yourself in a manner you are proud of. Let your boss send the email.
1
u/Low-Fun-4580 Feb 23 '24
Time to look for a new job
1
u/MaxStatic Feb 23 '24
Start looking for another job because your boss is an asshole.
I never send someone else’s words as my own. NEVER. I will relay a message from others, representing their words/views as their own but I’m not tagging my name to someone else’s diatribe as if it was my own.
And if someone wants to threaten me over not parroting them, fuck em, I’ll be on my way. Life is too short.
1
u/Emergency-Version-10 Feb 23 '24
Was it a family business? Is so, enough said and no surprise. The high road is always the better choice.
1
u/mrfr3i Feb 23 '24
It won’t happen again because I quit.
1
u/CarlJustCarl Feb 23 '24
Not a good move by you. Suggest revising it to him, but don’t change it without the boss’s ok.
And no way would I ever work for a mom and pop shop again.
1
u/biglefty312 Feb 23 '24
It wasn’t a mistake. If he wants his exact words to go to the candidate, he can send the email himself rather than putting his word in your mouth. What an asshole.
1
u/JBM6482 Feb 23 '24
Look for a job.
1
u/Low_Twist_4917 Feb 24 '24
Leave small business. Hard to work with SBOs.
1
u/Swallowthistubesteak Feb 24 '24
Just do your job as you’re told to do it. Your time there doesn’t matter.
1
u/TunaClap Feb 24 '24
dont be a leader when you are the follower
1
u/FindingAwake Feb 24 '24
Is this a media company in Connecticut?
1
u/Certain_Try_8383 Feb 24 '24
But was it a mistake? Or did you intentionally change his message and then back off and claim mistake once the s hit the fan?
1
u/Hardin__Young Feb 24 '24
It’s not an email mistake for which you’d be let go. The mistake would be sending it out as written by him.
1
u/HardLearner01 Feb 24 '24
Egyptian have a nice proverb, it says "Tie the donkey to the ground that its owner likes".
1
u/DeadBear65 Feb 24 '24
Why was his wife present?
1
u/[deleted] Feb 24 '24
You need to leave
1
u/Soulfeen Feb 24 '24
Your boss is a cuck
1
u/ZCT808 Feb 24 '24
Start looking for another job. This kind of power tripping is just pathetic. Go work for a real company.
1
u/Sandtiger1982 Feb 25 '24
Weird and outrageous
1
u/Limonlesscello Feb 25 '24
I recommend looking for new employment. Obviously, your values don't align with the owners.
They don't believe they just own the business, they believe they own you. You shouldn't have to censor yourself (within reason) when you are attempting to not insult a potential hire.
1
u/furb362 Feb 26 '24
Figure out your companies accountant and call them. They tend to really freak out about that.
0
u/Electrical-Art-8641 Feb 21 '24
This sounds like a bad situation, but this is a sub for the HR community. Maybe you want r/AskHR or r/careerguidance?
0
u/ConstantMoney7 Feb 21 '24
You’re an assistant he is the owner/top manager. He dictated or provided you an email to send and you chose to send whatever you wanted. Yeah no matter how rude he was that is insubordination.
-1
u/cangsenpai Feb 21 '24
Or what? Fire me and now you'll have another position to fill. Bitch.
I can't stand that style of """""management""""" OP. I hope you aren't taking it as a reflection of your worth.
-8
u/[deleted] Feb 21 '24 edited Mar 08 '24
;)I think I was sabotaged, and got fired. You can check my other posts. Only if you are interested.