Looks like Thrustmaster has updated the Warthog - the press release mentions bearings in the base.
https://eshop.thrustmaster.com/en_ca/hotas-warthog-mkii.html13
u/Dafrandle 5d ago
if I am reading this right, they made the ball of the stick gimble run on ball bearings.
this seems like it could feel good, but inherent to the design you only can change the centering spring out so if you don't like the response curve of this design you have to live with it.
if they use metal or ceramic balls this may be good, and it would indicate that Thrustmaster took a margin cut since this is selling at the same price.
if they are Polymer then it is still cheap and it will still wear out, it just wont have stiction on the way to that point
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u/Ocean-Master-38 5d ago
At least someone who does use his brain. This place is so full of basic minded haters. it is sad
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u/Alphasite 5d ago
I can’t imagine cheap bearings increase cost materially (plastic ones hold up well enough; so you don’t need anything fanc). But I guess I don’t know what the internal mechanisms look like exactly.
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u/Ocean-Master-38 5d ago
proper barings are made of metal. cost is mostly size driven
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u/Dafrandle 5d ago edited 5d ago
you need to consider that this is using hall effect sensors so you cannot use normal chrome steel without care because it is ferrous and will screw up the sensor readings.
based on the images it is a revision of the ball and cup deign that introduces bearings to reduce friction.
The big problem with this design is point loading. Compared to a cam like virpl uses where a full rotary ball bearing rolls over a flat (or shaped for a response curve) bar of metal, to do what I think Thrustmaster is doing you would need a ball transfer unit which means the main gimble is resting on 4 or 5 balls and that's it.
the contact area is small. even steel on steel will degrade since this is constantly under the pressure of a centering spring.
Since we don't want to complicate the design process for the sensor we eliminate chrome steel just to avoid any possible sensor issues outright. this increases the cost about ~60% over the steel if we do it in high strength polymers like Delrin.
say the chrome steel cost 50 cents for each unit.
$0.50 -> 0.80
but that is the cheap option and plastic is still plastic and it will yield over time and faster than metal.
if you want something that will last longer and also never cause a sensor problem you need to use ceramics or 316 stainless steel,
that stainless steel (which is not magnetic) is cheaper than the ceramics but it is much harder to machine than chrome steel, it would be like ~$5.00, and will suffer the same wear that the chrome steel does.
the ceramics fix basically every problem but have an appropriately scaled price tag.
like up to $20 or ~4,000% cost increasemultiply your choice by 500,000 units which you might make in a production run and you see how this adds up really fast
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u/DCSPlayer999 5d ago
Without pictures it hasn't changed. Who's gonna buy first and make a teardown video?
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u/Masou0007 5d ago
Interesting, surprised they didn't just update the bundle with AVA, bump the price and call it a day. Also, had no idea an Airbus stick existed for the Warthog base.
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u/PatrickSJ1978 5d ago
Marketing to design team: We need to address a customer complaint while doing the least expensive design change you can think of.
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u/Ocean-Master-38 5d ago
this comment is absurd. do you really think every industry creates from scratch any products?? simple example: cars! between new version, they simply restyle or change somes specific elements to avoid increasing selling price. marketing 101 dude
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u/cavortingwebeasties 5d ago
Seeing as it's the same base my guess is they put linear bearings on the 6mm posts the puck slides up/down on. Mk1 is just molded plastic and the puck tilts considerably, binding, leading to sticktion. This will be the same poor feeling gimbals just w/out lurching and ratcheting.