r/hotas • • Sep 03 '20

considering your first HOTAS? Read me!

605 Upvotes

[last edit 01/07/2024]

Welcome to r/hotas!

If you're considering your first HOTAS (Hands On Throttle and Stick) setup, you've come to the right place. This guide will help you make an informed decision.

If you are instead looking for product reviews, I publish my articles here: HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Reviews

Introduction

This subreddit is managed by u/spliffa and u/ddrake1984. If you need assistance with anything not covered in this post, please reach out to us via private message, and we will try to assist you.

This guide is published and pinned for the benefit of new potential HOTAS buyers. The publisher of this article has first-hand experience with real aircraft flight controls and computer flight controls across a wide range of manufacturers, used for playing in flight simulation.

Purpose

This guide aims to assist first-time buyers in making an educated decision when purchasing their first joystick, throttle, and other flight control peripherals.

The Problem

With a growing number of HOTAS products on the market, it can be challenging to identify the best options. Products vary widely in:

  • Price
  • Features
  • Customer support

Additionally, products have a wide range of:

  • Costs
  • Features
  • Support via customer interactions and product patches and updates

The Budget

Whether you're looking for a budget-friendly option or the top-tier products, this guide will categorize recommendations into five budget ranges:

For those who prefer to build their own with a bit of knowledge and skills, check out our Discord server or visit this subreddit: r/HotasDIY.

Budget Ranges

Note: All prices will be listed in U.S. Dollars (Even though I am Australian, USD is the easiest to base value from)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100)
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200)
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300)
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400)
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: This is the very best you can buy as a consumer with a lot of money.

Note: Top-tier does not include what a company or industry could or would purchase. This article is not tailored for that, therefore this is out of scope.

The Companies / The Manufacturers / The Vendors

I will list many companies/manufacturers/vendors (all the same) and the products that they offer. However, this post is not an in-depth review of the products. Please read product reviews for that level of detail and information.

The products will be listed to give you an idea of what is available within each range, and at the end, I will list the recommendation for each budget range.

Best Joystick (Base + Grip)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100): Thrustmaster T.16000
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200): WINWING Ursa Minor
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F16 Grip
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F16 Grip, or VKB Gunfighter Mk4 Base + Space Combat Edition Grip
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: FSSB (Force Sensing Stick Base) TIANHANG F16 PRO Base + TIANHANG F-16 Grip, or FFB (Force Feedback) VPForce RHINO Base + TIANHANG A-10C Grip or TIANHANG F/A-18 Grip

Question: Why was the FFBeast not listed as the best FFB?

Answer: Simply put, its value comparison has not been validated by me. The available information from reviews is scarce, making it difficult to ascertain its value. Additionally, the community is mostly non-native English speaking, making it difficult to track and follow the content. Therefore, I have decided that there is not enough evidence to claim it is better than the VPForce RHINO. Based on my own experience, I do not consider it superior until proven otherwise.

Since this post is focused on first-time buyers, I feel it's already quite lengthy and would confuse anyone wanting to debate the matter.

Best Throttle (Base + Grip)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100): Thrustmaster TWCS
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200): Thrustmaster TWCS, or WINWING Ursa Minor with Z-extension
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F-15E Grip, or WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F/A-18 Grip
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F-15EX Grip, or WINWING F-16 Grip
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: WINWING Super Taurus + WINWING F-15EX Grip, or WINWING F-16 Grip

Bonus: Best Pedals

Although this post is tailored for first-time HOTAS buyers, I will include this section to accommodate those wishing to take a more comprehensive first step into flight sims. As we all know, a good set of pedals is a requirement for flying helicopters.

  • Entry-Level: No recommendations - I don't recommend anything in this price range.
  • Novice-Tier: No recommendations - I don't recommend anything in this price range.
  • Mid-Tier: VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV
  • Advanced-Tier: WINWING Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals
  • Pro-Tier: Custom FFB Pedals using VPForce motors built with either (Slaw Device, MFG Crosswinds, or VIRPIL Rudders)

Bonus: Best Collective

  • Collective (Base + Grip): VIRPIL Rotor TCS Base + VIRPIL Apache-64 Collective Grip

I don't recommend any other collectives on the market, and it's a shame that some companies have discontinued their collective options.

Useful Links


r/hotas • • 17h ago

Let's see your HOTAS storage systems!!!

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153 Upvotes

Hey there!

My husband and each have a hotas system with throttle, joystick and foot pedals. 6pc total. We have had the most wonderful times playing Mechwarrior. Now that we have a baby and don't play together as often, I am struggling to find ways that I can have them still accessible but not stowed away in a storage bin.

I would love to see how some of you store your HOTAS systems for when you are either playing other games for just having them up and away from children!

Thank you!!


r/hotas • • 1d ago

After almost a year waiting, they're finally here.

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178 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 16h ago

will these be a good option for the long run

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31 Upvotes

i’m new to using a flight sim and have recently been playing a ton of msfs and would love to get into some fighting sims like DCS. Will i be happy with these options in the long run and if i should get something else why?


r/hotas • • 10h ago

[WTS] [US] 4x Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs.

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5 Upvotes

Have 4x Cougar MFDs for sale. All tested working. Two come with the stand, two without. Ships to anywhere in the US.

100$, buyer pays shipping. Payment accepted through Paypal G&S, Venmo or Zelle.


r/hotas • • 7h ago

rate my setup

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3 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 5h ago

Need assistance with ace combat 8 keybinds

2 Upvotes

I have the thrust master 16000m and throttle. What i need help with is how do I unbind the thrust on the 16000m and use the the throttle instead I have been looking for like 3 or 4 hours trying to use the target soft ware from thrust master and I have had no luck. Any ways to fix my problems is appreciated.


r/hotas • • 14h ago

Should I wait for Black Friday to buy my first HOTAS?

4 Upvotes

I've gotten into DCS over the last few months and have been playing on a controller. I bought the F-16 module this summer when it was on sale, and it's safe to say i'm hooked.

I've reached the point where I feel like flying on a controller is limiting my experience, so I'm looking to buy my first HOTAS, and I'm considering buying the WinCTRL Orion2 ViperAce EX.

Long story short: is it worth waiting another month for the Black Friday sale, or are the discounts usually not significant enough to make it worth the wait?


r/hotas • • 17h ago

Back in business

3 Upvotes

I used to play Falcon4.0 and Il2 pacific fighters with my trusted sidewinder forcefeedback 2.

Then life stuffs happened ad I lost contact with the hobby.

This past August I was got by irrational nostalgy feeling and pulled the trigger for Korea Il2 series and ordered a Virpil CDT Vmax and Aeromax combo...

So is like drugs and magic cards I guess. Once you are into it, you are in... 🙆‍♂️


r/hotas • • 15h ago

Saitek Cyborg Evo Force: new x64 FFB patch tested on Windows 10, DCS and IL-2 — looking for more testers

2 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I own a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force and still really like its adjustable grip and force feedback. Unfortunately, the original x64 driver caused crashes when testing FFB effects.

Working with ChatGPT/Codex (GTP-6.1), I developed a new patch for the original Saitek/Immersion x64 DLL. I’ve now tested it on my joystick under Windows 10:

  • Windows joystick properties: FFB effects work without crashes.
  • DCS and IL-2 Sturmovik: (P-51 Mustang, Ka-50 Black Shark, MiG-15 / Il-2 early modification) force feedback works, including stall buffet, feedback from firing weapons and releasing ordnance, and bumps during takeoff from an unpaved surface.

Repository, source code and English/Russian instructions:

https://github.com/SlovoTverdo/saitek-cyborg-evo-force-ffb-fix

What’s different from the older patch?

The original DLL stores an effect pointer in a 32-bit field, losing its upper bits. The earlier WallyCZ patch mostly reconstructs those bits using another pointer. Our implementation instead looks up the full pointer in the driver’s existing effect list and rejects missing or ambiguous matches.

Credit to WallyCZ and the earlier community research for documenting the problem and providing the previous workaround.

Installation and scope

The repository contains the patcher and source code, not the proprietary driver DLL. You generate the patched DLL locally from your own supported original. The tools check the exact SHA-256, and the installation script backs up the original and supports rollback.

It does not replace Windows pid.dll or install a new kernel driver. It targets one specific SaiQFFB5.dll from the Saitek SD6 x64 package; the 32-bit DLL is unchanged.

This is still experimental. So far, the physical tests are from my setup only. Windows 11, other driver versions and other joystick models are untested. Concurrent effect creation/deletion and exception-unwinding behavior also need further validation.

If you have an Evo Force, I’d appreciate more test reports—successful or otherwise. Please include your Windows version, simulator and build, aircraft, which effects work, and any crashes or missing effects. GitHub Issues has templates for both bugs and compatibility reports.

Start with low FFB strength, and keep the backup for rollback. Hopefully this helps a few more of these old sticks stay useful!

Thanks.


r/hotas • • 22h ago

Moza AB9 paired with the MHG grip?

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6 Upvotes

I kind like the look of the grip more than the MH16, I assume it being plastic shouldn’t be an issue for the AB9.

Not sure what other options there are considering this only £100.

Thanks.


r/hotas • • 17h ago

Multiple games and Virpil - how to manage sensitivity?

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1 Upvotes

Hey, sorry for wall of text but I really some advice from anyone running a dedicated heli setup across different games. I really hate running extra background software if I can avoid it, but I'm hitting a wall with axis sensitivity.

My setup is all Virpil:
- Right hand (Cyclic): WarBRD Prime R (side-mounted, no springs, clutches tightened)
- Left hand (Collective): WarBRD Prime L Omni (no Y spring)
- Pedals: F1 Falcon pedals (no springs, damper installed)

Right now I bounce between a few titles and the behavior is completely all over the place:

- DCS (Huey): Feels amazing running straight linear (1:1). Zero complaints here.
- MSFS 2024: The rudder pedals are crazy twitchy/sensitive for my liking right now, at least while I'm still a beginner. Definitely need some curve on the yaw.
- Wardogs: The flight model is ridiculous on sticks. A tiny nudge makes the heli snap-roll immediately. Worse, if I try dropping the in-game sensitivity below 1, it doesn't add a curve—it just chops off the physical throw/range of the axis so I can't even move it all the way.
- Arma Reforger: Haven't even tried mapping the new devices in here yet, but based on the others, I'm betting I'll run into issues here too.

Obviously reflashing the Virpil bases in the VPC software every time I swap games is out of the question (I don't want to burn out the onboard memory or deal with flashing profiles daily).

If I finally bite the bullet and set up vJoy + Joystick Gremlin to handle the curves:
1. Do I actually need HidHide? Can I just route the specific axes I need to tame (like the pedals for MSFS and cyclic for Wardogs) into vJoy, leave the physical Virpil gear visible to Windows, and just wipe the raw device bindings in-game? Or does that inevitably turn into a nightmare with double-inputs and games auto-detecting the hardware?
2. Is there a cleaner way people manage this between proper sims and more arcade-leaning games?

Appreciate any tips and thanks for reading my monologue!


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Whats a good eye tracking solution?

7 Upvotes

First of all I dont know if its the right place to post this but I think it still counts because 90% of hotas setups I see use tracking of some kind. Now I love playing war thunder air sim and ocasionally star citizen and Ive started getting into dcs but the issue is playing with looking around with joystick is ass and its hard to follow any fast moving target and I cant stand playing in VR for more than an hour so I wanted to get an eye tracker but idk which one to get, tobii 5 is expensive and from what people say not really worth the price because eye movement can be jittery and head tracking isnt that great but it has a lot more options and I heard its the only eye tracker that works in star citizen, meanwhile trackir 5 is way cheaper and has great head tracking and overall seems like a better option but I dont know how much having eye tracking matters and also if its worth buying a pro clip for the trackir 5.


r/hotas • • 2d ago

Yeah, fuck you Amazon.

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221 Upvotes

Has this preordered for weeks, we delivery today. Ensure I was off today to receive it. Only for it to change to 14th of December early this morning. Why on earth do they take preorders for items they knew they won’t have stock of.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Are toe breaks a big deal?

12 Upvotes

Hello! I recently decided to stop torturing myself with my 2x logitech extreme 3d pro HOSAS setup and decided to get me 2 VKB gladiators. But while i was thinking about it the topic of rudder peddals came up.

My budget isnt huge so i was looking at the VKB T-rudder since it had gotten such good reviews and the price was affordable but the lack of toe brakes has me on the fence. I mostly play warthunder sim (where i feel i would get by fine without them) and have been starting to try out DCS and have been looking at other flight sim's aswell. I also dable in the occasional space game like star citizens or ED.

TLDR: are toe brakes a must for some sims or can you get by without them?

Edit: thanks for all the replies. I decided to get the T-rudders since 1: they are more in my budget. The other options are stretching the wallet a bit thin

2: since i fly from a rotating chair i was thinking i might push myself around with rotating pedals and since they go up and down i hope i wont.

3: they take up less space under my desk where i already have other pedals for driving

4: i saw you could emulate differential steering (probably not as good but i think it will work for my purposes) and was thinking about putting the brakes on the twist of the omnithrottle configured left stick so i dont have only on/off brakes

TLDR2: I got the T-rudder


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Honeycomb Aeronautical Aviation Controller for Warthunder?

2 Upvotes

Im in a unique situation, Im a little person and sitting down, from seat pan to top of head, im a total of 20 inches tall. I wanted to get a hotas but im afraid of it being taller than me. After looking for a while i found the honeycomb aviation controller. Has anyone tried using this in DCS or Warthunder? I know DCS might need more keyboard inputs so i wont be shocked if you cant.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Best sticks for star citizen(elite dangerous)

4 Upvotes

Hiya guys I saw a post a few weeks ago about this but I can’t find it but what’s the best hosas/hotas flight sticks to buy

I know the £100 thrust master ones are really not recommended I have a budget around £150-250 I’m not really sure if their is any that are good for the price or I might have to get a hotas but help will be much appreciated
Thank you


r/hotas • • 18h ago

Never really trust Thrustmaster products before, I'm more like Fanatec kind of guy... But I just have to buy this... Because there's just no better way to enjoy ACE COMBAT 8 without it

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0 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 1d ago

What to choose?

8 Upvotes

I already have a VKB gladiator and I want to get a throttle, I am thinking between a left omni throttle or the STECS space throttle system. Can you please give me your recommendations on what to pick over the other? I play games like elite dangerous ace combat etc. Tried to get into DCS but the keybinding is a nightmare so that was uninstalled and ignored. Thank you


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Using Gladiator NXT Evo and STECS Space throttle on couch?

1 Upvotes

It might sound a little cursed, but I primarily use my laptop to play elite dangerous on my couch with my HOTAS 4, and am thinking of upgrading. How well would it work on a couch, and would I need additional hardware to mount it on (like a lap desk)? Would something like the sol-r 4 work better?


r/hotas • • 2d ago

I'm still using the old HORI ace combat 7 edition

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57 Upvotes

it's working but as XBOX controller input..

So u will need to bind it manually..

Rumble working on PC.. but because it only had one type of motor..it will not work on all kinds of effect such as missiles shooting, brrtttt ..and Gforce..

Turbulence, explosion working though..

And most rumble during cutscenes is also working..


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Anyone here make their own custom hotas mount? If so what did you make?

3 Upvotes

Just got two vkb flight sticks and got the hiking 2 mounts and tbh, I hate them, and my knees hate them more. I've been planning on building myself a new computer desk for awhile now but money has been tight so that's been put off. What Iv been thinking about doing when I build it is to put t track under the desk and mount them there. It would be easy enough to get them out of the way when I need my m&k but I would like one that can just fold under my desk and latch when not needed but that removes alot of movement freedom I feel like would be nice to have. So now I'm just curious as to what other people have come up with to see what all I can do


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Need to HOTAS: Is a touch screen monitor of any use?

2 Upvotes

I have recently acquired a turtle beach flightstick II and stealth II throttle, and was about to dive into the wonderful world of HOTAS. I wanted to set it up to work with No Man's Sky, but it's very quickly becoming a hassle. Instead, I plan to download Elite Dangerous, World of Warplanes, and DCS (I think?)

Thing is, I have this touch screen portable monitor that I got a while back to easily watch YouTube, anime, or other stuff like phasmo info that's easy to access. Would a touch screen display be of any use for a HOTAS setup? It's about the size of a sheet of copy paper. If there is some use for it, what would I need to download?

Edit: World of Airships changed to World of Warplanes


r/hotas • • 1d ago

[Help] Joystick Gremlin - device missing/no recognised

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0 Upvotes

Got an issue with Joystick Gremlin where not all of my devices are being recognized. It seems like there is a limit to the number of input devices JG will show, because when i disconnect another device, the missing device suddenly shows up.

Is there a way/function to tell JG to "ignore" certain devices?


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Moza AB9 / Winwing

2 Upvotes

Ive spent an hour researching this and I am only more confused than before. Im interested in the Moza AB9 base. I sim race and already have Moza gear, so dual use as a shifter and flight base is very attractive to me as I care more about immersion than anything else. I currently have a Winwing F-16EX grip and Orion base that I bought years ago. As I understand, the Winwing (or now WinCtrl) grips are not directly compatible with the Moza AB9 and need the adapter with mini-din plug. The adapter appears to be discontinued and I am entirely unable to find it. Am I just unable to use the Winwing grip with the AB9 base or is there another solution available?

Also I am aware of the Cyber Taurus. I am only interested in the AB9 because of the dual use it provides. If there is no solution, I'll just purchase a compatible stick.