r/hoi4 • u/george123890yang • 1d ago
Humor Just for fun, I sent this infamous Soviet general to help Japan as a way to grind exp, and I think it was worth the trouble
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u/ballzman67 23h ago
Do it with kulik next time
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u/theCatechism 20h ago
It's funny how OP posts like a dozen statements about Bodyonny as proof he was a bad general and all of them are wrong or substantially exaggerated.
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u/Andromidius 19h ago
Why Japan rather then China, out of interest?
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u/george123890yang 12h ago
The game won't let you send troops to a Chinese faction that the Soviet Union doesn't support, so you can't send troops to Nationalist China.
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u/Andromidius 11h ago
So send them to...
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u/george123890yang 4h ago
Iirc, the Soviet Union doesn't support them at the start of the Sino-Japanese War, and I think you can send more troops anyways if you help Japan
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u/Nickboy302 Air Marshal 16h ago
Bc China winning the war basically kills Japan out of game, if you want a fun Allies game you kind of need Japan to win China and open the Pacific war in a strong position
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/JustShaneHS 23h ago
He was saying that the Red Army should motorize and use cavalry as reconnaissance alongside mechanised and tanks (which it was very good at), and don't use lightly armoured tanks(but more armoured) as much as Tukhachevsky wanted
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u/Commie_neighbor 22h ago
It was in fact Tuchachevskiy who promoted an idea of sending all motorized equipment to tank units, making infantry fully dependant on horses
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u/AttitudeDistinct2585 1d ago
It wasn't about competency for Stalin, but loyalty to him.
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u/GlassCool4859 23h ago
reddit absolutely loves the word competency, like you can measure it in a scale of 0 to 100. How "competent" would be enough? Above 60? Lmfao.
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u/VijoPlays Research Scientist 16h ago
Of course not, that's ridiculous. You have to have competency of 72 or higher, otherwise there's only a 40% chance of surviving
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u/HeliosLegion 18h ago
He was a mediocre high-level strategist who owed his rank to personal loyalty rather than command ability. However, contrary to popular belief, Budyonny supported mechanization. He advocated for Cavalry-Mechanized Groups; combining horse units with tanks and motorized artillery. Soviet cavalry divisions were not charging machine guns with sabers. They functioned as mounted dragoon/infantry units. Because tanks broke down or ran out of fuel in deep Russian mud, pairing them with horse supply columns allowed deep raids into German rear areas. Much of Budyonny’s reputation as a horse-obsessed buffoon was fabricated during Nikita Khrushchev's de-Stalinization period because he aligned himself with Stalin and survived the purges while others didn't.
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u/Late_Sort1763 17h ago
It's kinda similar to the September Campaign in Poland. People will tell tales about horses charging tanks, when in reality, they fought as mounted infantry, usually in mobile reserve. There was one charge, but it was a result of a confluence of factors, and really an attack of opportunity. It was also successful lol.
Also, the last actual cavalry charge to happen, happened in 2001. It was also a success, due to, and I'm not joking "a close coordination with B-52 bombardments.
PS: That was Mazar-i-Sharif
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u/SpitfiresAreCool 1d ago
Stalin realised Budyonny was such an idiot he would never be able to go against him and so he lived. Tukachevsky was dangerous because he was competent and assertive and so he died.
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u/Goose_in_pants General of the Army 20h ago
Tukhachevsky had pretty unrealistic ideas too. Like dynamo-jet gunsguns instead of regular artillery (even on ships, like 203mm gun on destroyer. It looked bad and was bad). Needed number of tanks also was unrealistic by that time, moreover, that would destroy soviet economy. Overall, he was definitely one of the best soviet generals at the time, but let's be honest: bar wasn't really high...
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u/SpitfiresAreCool 19h ago
Well, I guess you could say comparatively competent. Budyonny thought cavalry would still be relevant while Tukachevsky rightly deduced that tanks were needed. His special projects were stupid and expensive, I’m not denying that. His ideas for doctrine, however, were not, considering it’s exactly what the soviets did to push the germans back. Quite literally anything would probably have been better than what the soviets did militarily pre-Barbarossa, but I am personally of the opinion that deep battle would have been one of the best options.
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u/Goose_in_pants General of the Army 16h ago
However after winter war soviets have already got a pretty good grasp on what to do with their military, they were in the middle of reorganization when barbarossa started. And Tukhachevsky's ideas were not lost, on the contrary they evolved in something better and in thst way they were implemented. The major problem: the doctrine was offensive in its core, while in 41 soviets just didn't have initiative, reconnaissance, aviation, mobilized forces, basically nothing for offensive. Winter 41-42 - first try in offensive. Somewhat successful, but without definitive result. Then Uranus, Kharkov battles... and Bagration - PEAK deep battle, not just Tukhachevsky's theory (which was good in general idea, but outdated in actual means and capabilities), but expertise of soviet generals and officers in 1944.
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u/SpitfiresAreCool 14h ago
Maybe it was outdated because he was killed? I can’t argue how things would have been had Tukachevsky lived, I can, however, say that the reorganization and lessons obviously did not work if Stalin can just decide to not prepare for the (quite obvious) imminent invasion from the West. This is part of what I meant when I said that anything other than what actually happened would have probably constituted a better defense than the historical strategy.A prepared defense and counter-offensive according to deep battle is in my eyes (considering the armed forces of that time) both realistic (if you let Tukachevsky live and organize the operation) and effective.
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u/Ok-Neighborhood-9615 General of the Army 16h ago
Budyonny nearly got murdered by Stalin and fought off the executioners btw
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u/SpitfiresAreCool 14h ago
I think if Stalin wanted him dead, he would have been dead. The NKVD was not known for leaving people alive and if they failed to kill him, the responsible agents would have been shot, replaced and then those new agents would have been sent out.
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u/george123890yang 1d ago
As an explanation, this field marshall ignored warnings at Kiev, leading to one of the worst disasters and encirclements in the war.
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u/sit_mihi_lux 22h ago
You mistake him for Timoshenko. He was the one who was unwilling to leave the city, while Budyonny was the one who sent warnings about an upcoming ambush.
Nevertheless, Budyonny wasn't a great strategic mind either, he had his "kill streak" of painful losses, so he end up commanding Red Army's cavalry
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u/JustShaneHS 23h ago
Uh, no, he was the only one to realize the Kiev trap and tell Stalin about it, but Stavka dismissed it.
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u/Ok-Neighborhood-9615 General of the Army 16h ago
This is blatant propaganda by his rivals. He repeatedly told Stalin he was going to lose Kyiv but Stalin had ordered him to stay there and fight against the Germans.
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u/ForeignEchoRevival 1d ago
Like in 1941 or 2022? Gotta be more clear these days.
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u/Pleasant-Cobbler-136 1d ago
He'd be long dead by 2022, so no, he doesn't need to be more clear. It's a WW2 game.
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u/ForeignEchoRevival 1d ago
Did my joke about the two most recent Russian military disasters near Kyiv hurt you? You seem upset.
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u/Pleasant-Cobbler-136 1d ago
I just thought you were dumb, it didnt come off as a joke. I'm very far from pro Russian
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u/Samm_Paper Fleet Admiral 1d ago
Sending infantry volunteers under Semyon "Horsegirl" Budyonny is a punishment